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new property tax, it must be a sick joke?

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    #32
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    This goverment are experts at diversion, how many times will we believe them when they tell us its raining when in fact they are pissing on our leg.


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    #33
    thms.kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭thms.kelly


    springfield tallaght dublin 2004 3 bed semi 200,000 payments over 30 years payment 1100,
    rent similar 3 bed semi 1200 tell me this is bs!!


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    #34
    thms.kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭thms.kelly


    plus our government , were throwing schemes out there shared ownership schemes, affordable housing, not so affordable now!!
    they where the ones egging us on to buy , with no chance of renting in a local authority estate, and boo whoo dont blame our innocent government, you are saying that we where fools for buying we should have known better, no i say our government should have known better.
    after all they are the ones we allow to run our country


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    #35
    Jeanious
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Jeanious


    chris85 wrote: »
    People are basically paying say a €300k mortgage on a property barely worth probably €240k now. thats wasted money.

    Can i just make the point that buying a house for 300k and it now being worth 240k is not "losing" or "wasting" 60k.

    If they had to sell it at that price, then yeah, i understand, but at some point they felt that the house was worth 300k to them, so why has that changed?

    Dont get me wrong, if that happened to me id be pi$$ed off, but if ya buy a telly or a computer or somethin for 1000, then next week its on sale for 600, there's one word for it....tough!

    I wouldnt be at all pushed for this property tax either, lived in the UK for a while and depending on your circumstances, council tax can be an awful chunk of your wages.

    For starters; and i say this as a dole-receiver myself; cut the jaysusin dole by 50 quid off the bat. This should be balanced by the introduction of more reliefs and benefits for people who need them, but an 18 or 20 year old livin at home does not need 200 quid a week. I really cant see why the basic dole should be that much. It should start lower, maybe even 100 quid, and then people should be able to claim extra if they need it/deserve it.


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    #36
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    springfield tallaght dublin 2004 3 bed semi 200,000 payments over 30 years payment 1100,
    rent similar 3 bed semi 1200 tell me this is bs!!

    Currently in Springfield Tallaght a 3 bed house asking price is around €250,000. To rent in a 3 bed in Springfield Tallaght is €1000. (That's a 4.8% rental yield)

    You're telling me that in 2004 the asking price was €200,000 and rental was €1200. (at 4.8% yield a €200k house should rent for €800). Most likely you are not comparing like with like


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    #37
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    springfield tallaght dublin 2004 3 bed semi 200,000 payments over 30 years payment 1100,
    rent similar 3 bed semi 1200 tell me this is bs!!

    Rents go up and down, mortgage repayments go up and down. But rent is something you agree to pay for 6 months or up to 1 year at most in the majority of cases. A mortgage is a loan you take out over 30+ years during Celtic Tiger years.

    Don't you think the sheer difference in scale of commitment warranted further thought and research to be given over to the option of renting? After all rent has gone down a lot now. But those on 35 year mortgages are probably still paying the same amount. Also the ECB will probably start putting up interest rates soon.


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    #38
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    plus our government , were throwing schemes out there shared ownership schemes, affordable housing, not so affordable now!!
    they where the ones egging us on to buy , with no chance of renting in a local authority estate, and boo whoo dont blame our innocent government, you are saying that we where fools for buying we should have known better, no i say our government should have known better.
    after all they are the ones we allow to run our country

    The government aren't innocent but at some point you have to take responsiblity for your own decisions and actions. I mean do you want the government to run all aspects of your life? Tell you when to buy? tell you when to sell? when to take a dump?

    Everyone had a choice, some of us decided to buy buy buy no matter the cost and the rest of us decided not to buy at any cost. Now we all have to live with the consequences of our actions, except of course those of us who didn't buy at any cost. We also have to live with the cost (higher taxes) of the actions of those individuals who chose to buy at any cost :mad:


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    #39
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    Sesshoumaru wrote: »
    I wish people would have put a little thought into their purchases. A lot of people who bought in the recent past were getting mortgages over 35 years. That's a bloody long time!!! and for what? 4 walls and a roof?!?!
    Many people bought for what were essentially emotional reasons. They wanted the feeling of ownership and of participation in the property ladder. Terrible decision making.

    However any property tax must take account of stamp duty and must be based on the current value rather than the purchase price or the LTEV.


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    #40
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Currently in Springfield Tallaght a 3 bed house asking price is around €250,000. To rent in a 3 bed in Springfield Tallaght is €1000. (That's a 4.8% rental yield)

    I own a house in Terenure which I rent out. I am currently getting €1300. I would be very surprised if houses in Springfield (which I know very well) are renting for €1000.
    If the state is paying €1000 for houses in Springfield that's an outrage.


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    #41
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    MrMicra wrote: »
    However any property tax must take account of stamp duty
    Hence the seven year holiday
    MrMicra wrote:
    I would be very surprised if houses in Springfield (which I know very well) are renting for €1000
    Hence my scepticism on the claim of €1200 in 2004.


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    #42
    thms.kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭thms.kelly


    springfield got that rent for the location, close to amenities square tallaght hospital etc, what do you want for receipts to be produced, my friend has a second home in jobstown to which he lets even now he is getting 1200 to which the state are paying,


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    #43
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    dvpower wrote: »
    Yes. But remember the advise that was been given out for people to stress test their repayment capacity. What would happen if ECB rates went up a few points? Can you afford your repayments if your circumstances changed (lost a job, had a child ...)?

    People completely ignored this advise (and their own common sense). They went and borrowed deposits off their credit cards, included fictional rental income on their mortgage applications... and when things go sour, it wasn't their fault because they were encouraged to buy.:mad:

    Going by this stress test, no-one could EVER buy a house as anyone can lose their job. You work with what you know at the time you are thinking of buying and allow for come extras...losing your whole income can not come into the equation.


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    #44
    erictheviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭erictheviking


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Hence the seven year holiday


    Hence my scepticism on the claim of €1200 in 2004.[/quote]

    Proximity to the hospital etc. meant rents were around €1200/ month in Springfield around 2004. (I'm from Tallaght BTW).
    I think you will find landlords (especially those milking the SW system haven't dropped their prices too much.Why should they when they don't have to:rolleyes:)
    A house there in 2004 was around 200-220K.


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    #45
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    erictheviking wrote: »
    Proximity to the hospital etc. meant rents were around €1200/ month in Springfield around 2004. (I'm from Tallaght BTW).
    They are still close to the hospitals in 2009. No one is still explaining why yields went from (supposedly) 7.2% in 2004 to 4.8% in 2009. Maybe Springfield, Tallaght is some exception to the rest of the country.:rolleyes:


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    #46
    erictheviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭erictheviking


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    They are still close to the hospitals in 2009. No one is still explaining why yields went from (supposedly) 7.2% in 2004 to 4.8% in 2009. Maybe Springfield, Tallaght is some exception to the rest of the country.:rolleyes:
    I only live there. I'm not an accountant:D


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    #47
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    its hard enough to pay the mortgage on overpriced houses that we had no choice but to buy

    :rolleyes:

    Did you not know that property bubbles don't last forever? Oops too late!


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    #48
    ronbyrne2005
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭ronbyrne2005


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Hence the seven year holiday


    Hence my scepticism on the claim of €1200 in 2004.

    Theres a lot of social welfare recipients in Tallaght and the rent supplement artifically keeps up price of rent in the area as people on social want to live near friends/family. Afamily with kids on social would get more than 1200 in rent supplement. I think rents across country jumped in 2004 after the EU acession states joined too pushing up demand .


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    #49
    thms.kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭thms.kelly


    diarmiud simple yes or no do you agree with the proposed property tax, that is the issue at hand,


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    #50
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    diarmiud simple yes or no do you agree with the proposed property tax, that is the issue at hand,

    I think it's a fairer system than stamp duty.

    Now thms.kelly simple yes or no, do you believe that you were forced into buying your house or you did it out of your own free will?
    erictheviking wrote: »
    I'm not an accountant:D
    So it seems.


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    #51
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    ronbyrne2005 wrote: »
    Theres a lot of social welfare recipients in Tallaght and the rent supplement artifically keeps up price of rent in the area as people on social want to live near friends/family. Afamily with kids on social would get more than 1200 in rent supplement. I think rents across country jumped in 2004 after the EU acession states joined too pushing up demand .
    Cut the rent supplement I don't see that private landlords have much choice.


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    #52
    thms.kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭thms.kelly


    do you have a family?you say you rent? every time your lease agreement is up, do you go find another house, i went with one of our great governments schemes to buy a home, to try and give myself some stability,try live in the same home for life, was there anything wrong with trying to give my family a home,
    after all these schemes were put together by our government! they wouldnt steer us wrong would they,
    tell me do you agree on water charges also,


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    #53
    Sesshoumaru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭Sesshoumaru


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    do you have a family?you say you rent? every time your lease agreement is up, do you go find another house, i went with one of our great governments schemes to buy a home, to try and give myself some stability,try live in the same home for life, was there anything wrong with trying to give my family a home,
    after all these schemes were put together by our government! they wouldnt steer us wrong would they,
    tell me do you agree on water charges also,

    I have a wife and daughter. I currently rent. It hasn't been easy over the last few years, we've moved twice. But despite family and friends telling me to buy a house, I stuck with renting. I'd say it was only about 6 months ago my father and sister were badgering me about there "never being a better time to buy" and that I should get on the "property ladder" :rolleyes:

    I have the deposit saved for a good home (really saved, not borrowed from a credit union), so for me renting was my choice. Just because the government made it attractive to buy in the short term didn't mean I went out to buy at any cost! We were obviously in a bubble for many years. Those who bought in the bubble should just accept responsibility for their mistakes. The people can make the government take their share of the responsiblity by not voting for them at the next election.


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    #54
    erictheviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭erictheviking


    I agree with Property tax on 2nd and subsequent properties. There are too many "buy to let" chancers out there having the mortgages on their properties paid for by the taxpayer via rent allowances.
    What makes me laugh is these chancers are the people calling for other people to pay more taxes and making smartass comments about how they pay public sector wages or how they are paying peoples dole etc etc.
    its a real "Anyone but me" mentality and its fecking hypocritical.
    Why should I pay their fecking mortgages while they cry like girls about having to pay a property tax.


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    #55
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    thms.kelly wrote: »
    tell me do you agree on water charges also,
    I agree with water charges. Why should I subsidise people who waste it?


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    #56
    thms.kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭thms.kelly


    i also agree on property tax on second and third homes, but the people who bought as their sole residence , never looked to profit ,just have a home,


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