Enda Kenny as Taoiseach?

thebman

lostexpectation wrote: »

nah was cos you arguing for us to show respect to somebody who shown us contempt

Lol that is all politicians when they don't need you to tick the box next to their name.

flanzer

flanzer wrote: »

Dev had it, Lemass had it, Garrett Fitzgerald had it, Haughey had it, Jack Lynch had it, Bertie a bit. Other world leaders like Reagan, Blair, Clinton, Obama, Chirac had it, the Germans. Yes they all have their flaws.

You left out one.

Reynolds had it in buckets...though maybe that arrogance cost him in the end...

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah its nice to have a sexy leader. From Indira Gandhi to Margaret Thatcher right through to Angela Merkel...mmmmmm, dreamy....;)

And you complain about a few of us taking the thread off topic.
At least we didn't start fantasising about storng dominant women

BTW Tom Crean was a real Kerry man to be proud of, unlike the aforementioned john "expenses" o'donghue.
Nice of you to remember the bould Wille Joe

flanzer wrote: »

Believe you me, I shudder uncontrolably at the current shower. As I said earlier on, not one person in the cabinet or opposition stands out. Unfortunately they all a bunch of dithering eejits. When I meant 'sex him up', what I'm really saying is that a good leader also needs to have a presence about him, can convince his peers, is confident. Is able to convince the people what they're doing is for the good of the nation.

Dev had it, Lemass had it, Garrett Fitzgerald had it, Haughey had it, Jack Lynch had it, Bertie a bit. Other world leaders like Reagan, Blair, Clinton, Obama, Chirac had it, the Germans. Yes they all have their flaws.

Irish politics is in a bad state, like the soccer team. There's nought talent out there I'm afraid

You don't obviously look very hard :rolleyes:
Reilly has always come across as competent on Health, Bruton has come across as competent and level headed on economics.
People Like Ruairi Quinn created the true Celtic Tiger and was very good finacne minister.

As regards your "had it" list, lets look closely at what some of these and what they achieved or rather didn't achieve.
Some of these people either did shag all or had some very negative affects on their countries.

Dev's time in charge of Ireland casued massive emmigration all the while cow towed to a bishop in Dublin.
haughey allowed corruption prosper and we are still paying for the corrupt decisions, not to metion what he did for the body politic in this country.
Lynch even though honourable sunk this country when he got an overall majority in 77 and we spent 15 years trying to recover.
Blair dragged his country into a war to appease the other great charismatic leader Bush, whom you failed to mention.

You failed to mention another leader with untold charisma and who could fire up his people, one adolf hitler.
He was an orator, a showman, a preacher, a man who could whole a nation in the plam of his hand.
Oh wait he plunged the world into war, tried to wipe our a race of peopl, and destroyed his own country cauding 5 odd million of his countryfolk to perish.

As a start to try and get us out of the hole we are in, I would be quiet happy with Kenny and his front bench.
Maybe they would be failures when faced with the huge problems left behind by clowen et al, but how do we know ?
How can people be so sure they they would be cr** like the current bunch?
Has any of the doubters ever tried anything new ?

At the moment we have a Staunton in charge, who just bellows "I'm the gaffer" and it appears knows shag all about what he is supposed to do.

I have to say ff HQ mandarins have done a fanstaic propaganda job in convincing a lot of people that no matter how bad they are, the other crowd could not be any better.
"It is they are just as bad" mantra.
They have tainted the body politic of this country so much, that now no politican is immune from being labelled as incompetent, lying, arrogant, unethical, corrupt. :mad:

Either we decide to punish ff so much that it takes them decades to recover, give other parties a chance to show they can do better, but also punish them swiftly if they too step out of line or we might as well say goodbye to honest politics in this country.

It would nice if he had politicans and a government we could be proud of on the aniversary of 1916, nevermind the aniversary of the independence of this country.

irish_bob

is_that_so wrote: »

Tired and woolly generalisations do not offer any insight although you have managed to include your two favourite targets Kenny and the PS in the same sentence .

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with coalitions. The last big single party govt we had set in motion a lot of the problems we had in the 80s. Cast your eyes across the water to see the merits of single party Govt. Where the tail is not wagging the dog, like the PDs, coalitions can be very pragmatic and bring a balance to the so-called tendencies outlined here.

You also might want to look up what Labour and that other evil left wing party DL did as part of that 94-97 Govt. before labelling them with throwaway clichés.

eamon gilmore as recently as this morning was stating that thier should be no further cuts to public sector pay , this for me is reason enough not to have any faith in a fine gael coalition , labour has moved considerably to the left since gilmore took over , i see no value in labour left canceling out fine gael centre right

irish_bob

Raiser wrote: »

Enda Kenny is a living example of the really poor alternative that nobody ever wants to choose......no matter how bad things get.....

We have Fianna Fail happily playing at managing the State and its like pathetic, scary, unbelievable, corrupt, self-serving, puerile, half-arsed, moronic - and worsening my the hour.

But we don't want to choose Enda Kenny, no matter how desperate things are becoming and despite the fact that soon there will be nothing left to pass on to our children.

Its like a situation where your hair is on fire and all that you have within your reach is a jug of hydrochloric acid.

Its also similar to a situation where there is a sinking Ship of Fools and they're all running around panicking - but nobody can get on OR off to remedy the situation because there's some mono-tone, feeble, unassertive, unimaginative idiot from Mayo standing blocking the gangplank month after month in the hope of someday being handed the Helm by default.

kenny is what is causing swing voters to pause and hesitate to give thier vote to fine gael , most swing voters want to vote fine gael but kenny is what holds them back , get rid of him and fine gael will secure a landslide , bar those who work in the public sector , everyone else knows that cuts must be made yet they know that by voting labour this cant happen , with the right man at the helm , FG will not need labour

irish_bob

darc wrote: »

What Enda Kenny needs to understand is that the people decide who gets into power and the people will look at the leader of a party and ask if this is the person they want to lead the country.

In Enda's case it is a resounding NO!

Fianna Fail's support has tanked, Cowen's support has tanked, yet the main opposition party has only managed to move to 34% support and the leader is at 29%

What this says is that even if every person who supports every other party says they don't rate Enda Kenny, you have a further 20% of his own party that don't rate him.

IMO, if FG had a more agreesive and proactive leader, they would sweep the boards and probably become a dominant force in Irish politics. Richard Bruton / Simon Coveney or possibly a dark horse in James O'Reilly would all fit the bill as progressive types would can put forward ideas and attract a better quality of political candidate to the FG party. But it needs to be done this year to allow for time to build up their credentials.

Buit as long as Enda is leader, FG will not come anywhere near maximising their vote. - We all know that, but someone has to get that message through to Enda.

bruton is the obvious replacement for most , neither of the other two are options , covney is a deeply unimpressive man and o reilly is just plain unlikable , besides i would not want someone from the biggest clique in the country ( doctors ) leading us , my choice would be leo varadakar

jmayo

irish_bob wrote: »

bruton is the obvious replacement for most , neither of the other two are options , covney is a deeply unimpressive man and o reilly is just plain unlikable , besides i would not want someone from the biggest clique in the country ( doctors ) leading us , my choice would be leo varadakar

You do know Varadakar is a doctor
The fact he was finalising his training was used by some to show how he wasn't a full time TD.

Raiser

irish_bob wrote: »

kenny is what is causing swing voters to pause and hesitate to give thier vote to fine gael , most swing voters want to vote fine gael but kenny is what holds them back , get rid of him and fine gael will secure a landslide , bar those who work in the public sector , everyone else knows that cuts must be made yet they know that by voting labour this cant happen , with the right man at the helm , FG will not need labour

I posted earlier in this thread with a pile of anti "Inda Kinny" sentiment since I was never swayed by his weak posturing, slow wit and promises of joyneduptinkin saving the State.....

I regret not having said more clearly though - why the fcuk does it have to be the present situation or Enda Fcuking Kenny?

- Why can't Fine Gael put their feeble little heads together and show us some alternative, ANY alternative. Wheres the debt? They owe Enda nothing do they? What has he done for them except put his suit on and come second every day, every week, every month, every year and every decade.

Does it just demonstrate that Fine Gael have even less initiative, lower standards and less common sense than the current Dail Degenerates?????

Cork Boy

Eh, lets not forget Kenny had to rebuild FG after Noonan's slaughter in the General Elections so he did fairly well in that sense.

Also, how do you compete when people in his own county re-elected Bev Flynn after she was caught for corruption!!! And thats just a microcosim of the 2002 general election. The great Irish re-elected a Taoiseach who had to be dragged kicking and screaming through the tribunals that he himself set up.

I know Enda is not very strong willed and doesn't come across all too well but look at Bill Gates and what he achieved with the right team.

FG know Enda's (perceived) shortcomings which is why they focus on the team rather than the man.

For me i think the naughties are like the Mr Binman episode of The Simpsons and you just know Kenny would love to deliver the line...

"You can't imagine how this feels, you people are screwed... goodbye"

Mr. Presentable

Bring back Garrett Fitzgerald, I say. I'd vote FG in a flash. But not with wet dishcloth in charge.

Cork Boy

a wet dishcloth is the best thing for putting out a fire on the stove

CerebralCortex

I can't in good conscience vote for a Christian Democratic party.

Cork Boy

CerebralCortex wrote: »

I can't in good conscience vote for a Christian Democratic party.

Then you're pretty much fcked in ireland then!

Liam Byrne

flanzer wrote: »

When I meant 'sex him up', what I'm really saying is that a good leader also needs to have a presence about him, can convince his peers, is confident. Is able to convince the people what they're doing is for the good of the nation.

Dev had it, Lemass had it, Garrett Fitzgerald had it, Haughey had it, Jack Lynch had it, Bertie a bit.

And therein lies my point; if someone who doesn't have the "good of the nation" at heart, and can still convince enough people that they do, it lands us in the crapper.

I'd much prefer to have someone who does have the good of the nation at heart, and isn't quite able to convince us, rather than having Haughey and Ahern as examples of the opposite.

thebman

Are you all really saying that this man:


looks more charismatic than this man:


I don't see it :-/

Mr. Presentable

thebman wrote: »

Are you all really saying that this man:


looks more charismatic than this man:


I don't see it :-/

You're not ghey enough. Or are too much so.

irish_bob

nipplenuts wrote: »

Bring back Garrett Fitzgerald, I say. I'd vote FG in a flash. But not with wet dishcloth in charge.

garrett was a lefty and was the worst thing that ever happened to fine gael , the man should have joined labour where he belonged from the start

Mr. Presentable

irish_bob wrote: »

garrett was a lefty and was the worst thing that ever happened to fine gael , the man should have joined labour where he belonged from the start

As opposed to Fianna Fail, where belongs Enda K!

Liam Byrne

nipplenuts wrote: »

As opposed to Fianna Fail, where belongs Enda K!

Explain. I haven't seen Kenny take backhanders, obstruct tribunals, pay off his buddies or screw the country.

thebman

nipplenuts wrote: »

You're not ghey enough. Or are too much so.

lol they are both just old men to me, not really my thing.

I think Enda appears more honest and clean living type and like he actually gives a crap about the country.

Brian Cowen just slurs his speech all the time and its hard to understand him. It isn't an accent issue as I'm from near Tullamore. Its just him. I don't like the idea of him representing the country when he's that overweight either. I at least would like a leader that doesn't make us look like we will have obesity epidemic in future even if we will have one, I'd rather not remind the world of it all the time.

thebman

thebman wrote: »

I don't like the idea of him representing the country when he's that overweight either. I at least would like a leader that doesn't make us look like we will have obesity epidemic in future even if we will have one, I'd rather not remind the world of it all the time.

I've read some odd stuff on this thread, but think this is in the top 5.

I'd elect Giant Haystacks if I thought he could do a good job.

How about that midget in France? Or the Italian who dies his hair and would get up on the cat? How about that ugly old spinster in Germany? The Swedish guy can't even keep his hair on, what chance do they have?

You'd be relieved to know the USA elected a trim athletic good looking guy. Guess no obesity there then...

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

I've read some odd stuff on this thread, but think this is in the top 5.

I'd elect Giant Haystacks if I thought he could do a good job.

How about that midget in France? Or the Italian who dies his hair and would get up on the cat? How about that ugly old spinster in Germany? The Swedish guy can't even keep his hair on, what chance do they have?

You'd be relieved to know the USA elected a trim athletic good looking guy. Guess no obesity there then...

I thought Merkel was married ?
Things were so bad in the states and they were so fed up with Bush's gang that they voted in a black guy.
Maybe it is time for us to vote in a Mayo guy

Liam Byrne

jmayo wrote: »

....they were so fed up with Bush's gang that they voted in a black guy.

What does his colour have to do with it ? If he's capable, he's capable.

I take your point that ANYONE would have been better than Bush (just as here, ANYONE would be better than FF) but colour or birthplace have feck-all to do with whether someone can actually do a job!

joolsveer

Don't Obama's people hail from Offaly like our esteemed Taoiseach?

I would love a change of government as soon as possible to see what the opposition can do with our current crisis.

AARRRGH

I could never vote for FG.

I had an interview with them a few years ago and their general secretary at the time thought all Palestinians were terrorists. Add the fact that they have kept Enda Kenny as leader, and their latest "Good Bank" scheme... they're utterly incompetent.

Liam Byrne

AARRRGH wrote: »

Add the fact that they have kept Enda Kenny as leader, and their latest "Good Bank" scheme... they're utterly incompetent.

Again, as distinct from a party that has Cowen as leader, "I don't bother reading" Lenihan as Minister for Finance, and their "Bad Bank" scheme ? :rolleyes:

jmayo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What does his colour have to do with it ? If he's capable, he's capable.

I take your point that ANYONE would have been better than Bush (just as here, ANYONE would be better than FF) but colour or birthplace have feck-all to do with whether someone can actually do a job!

Listen to me (and to you) his colour has nothing to do with it, but have you ever been in the states ?
Even in areas that aren't in the South there are a lot of white people who would not favour a black guy, especially as their nation's leader.
And before any US citizens have a go, I am not syaing all white Americans are racist, just like I am not syaing all native white Irish people are not racist.

joolsveer wrote: »

Don't Obama's people hail from Offaly like our esteemed Taoiseach?

That's about the only similarity, wll apart form both being involved with the law.
Obama comes across as sauve, sophisticated, intelligent, passionate, a pretty good orator, stateman like, whereas biffo comes across a lot of the time as an ould farmer who has been wheeled out to his daughters wedding in an ill fitting suit and who likes to bully people rather than bring them around to his way of thinking whatever it is, through powers of persausion.

As I have argued about Kenny, I don't care how he looks or comes across, if he was good at his job, didn't try and bully us into things that for all the world appears to only benefit a select group, who happen to have been prominent backers of his party, and would own up to the fact that he screwed up big time and have the decency to say "I f**ked up so I am resigning".