Richard Dawkins is coming to the RDS next week!

darjeeling

Calibos wrote: »

Anyone remember the Thomas Aquinas guy. After asking his question he waved his sheet of paper with the Aquinas evidence tauntingly at Dawkins as if to say," Na Na nanana, ya didn't know that fact Mr fancy pants Dawkins did ya".

WTF??

Yes indeed Sir, a medieval monk possibly hints at natural selection(according to your interpretation of some random obscure quote from Aquinas) and thats supposed to somehow validate the belief that the creator of the universe knocked up a 12 year old girl from a tribe of bronze age goatherders from the eastern mediterrainian circa 2000 years ago????

Well, Aquinas is an important figure in European thought. He was one of the people who revived Aristotle within Europe, receiving the works of the man they dubbed 'The Philosopher' from the Islamic scholars who had themselves built on them. Aristotle had studied just about everything he could, including biology, so bringing him back was a milestone in kick-starting science.

Shortly before Aquinas' time, Aristotle was forbidden in the universities, which were religious institutions. Soon, though, he became compulsory. Still, Aquinas faced opposition from church figures and was condemned after his death by the Bishop of Paris, only to be canonised later. Make of that what you will!

By happy coincidence, Melvyn Bragg finally got round to Aquinas in a long overdue prog this morning. You can hear it here.

Rb

Maqnus wrote: »

Whats this fiends story? I wouldn't mind goin for a gurch.

Er...?

Calibos

darjeeling wrote: »

Well, Aquinas is an important figure in European thought. He was one of the people who revived Aristotle within Europe, receiving the works of the man they dubbed 'The Philosopher' from the Islamic scholars who had themselves built on them. Aristotle had studied just about everything he could, including biology, so bringing him back was a milestone in kick-starting science.

Shortly before Aquinas' time, Aristotle was forbidden in the universities, which were religious institutions. Soon, though, he became compulsory. Still, Aquinas faced opposition from church figures and was condemned after his death by the Bishop of Paris, only to be canonised later. Make of that what you will!

By happy coincidence, Melvyn Bragg finally got round to Aquinas in a long overdue prog this morning. You can hear it here.

No, I know who Thomas Aquinas was. I just wonder what yer mans point was.

darjeeling

Calibos wrote: »

No, I know who Thomas Aquinas was. I just wonder what yer mans point was.

I couldn't figure it either, hence the 'make of it what you will'.

murrayp4

Calibos wrote: »

Anyone remember the Thomas Aquinas guy. After asking his question he waved his sheet of paper with the Aquinas evidence tauntingly at Dawkins as if to say," Na Na nanana, ya didn't know that fact Mr fancy pants Dawkins did ya".

WTF?? ??

I was in the same row about 4 away from him and Dawkins said he'd like to read where Aquinas had supposedly said that- and it seemed the guy had it on the sheet of paper in his hand, that was why he waved it

ironingbored

Has Dawkins' appearance on The Late Late Show been confirmed anywhere?

pts

Calibos's assessment of the "heckler" is very close to my own feeling on the incident. I think he misunderstood Dawkins and was unable to logically construct an argument/question/rant so he came across as rambling. The dodgy microphone didn't do him any favours. As he started loosing the audience he got frustrated as he felt the were all "Irish Times reading elitists", which of course turned the audience even more.

A good event though. Of course it would have been nice (in my opinion) if it was a lecture or a debate, instead it was what it was labelled as, a book reading.

Got to say hi to a few inhabitants of this forum and got my copy of "The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution" and "The God Delusion" signed so an evening well spent.

EDIT: article from the "elitist" Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sciencetoday/2009/0917/1224254710483.html

berengar

Would be nice to see the Dawk machine give a lecture ..

Zamboni

ironingbored wrote: »

Has Dawkins' appearance on The Late Late Show been confirmed anywhere?

Yep it was was confirmed by Tubridy on the show last week.

pts

Another article from the "elitist" Irish Times about the event:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0918/1224254802479.html

5uspect

Ooh Amazon just delivered my TGSOE!

darjeeling

murrayp4 wrote: »

I was in the same row about 4 away from him and Dawkins said he'd like to read where Aquinas had supposedly said that- and it seemed the guy had it on the sheet of paper in his hand, that was why he waved it

And now we'll never know what was written on it!

I don't think Aquinas in any way anticipated Darwin's great discovery; I've certainly never seen anything to suggest that he did. What Aquinas knew of biology he owed chiefly to the work of earlier philosophers from the Islamic and classical Greek worlds, learning that was rejected by the church before Aquinas and still opposed by many elements within Christianity in his time.

This isn't to deny Aquinas's importance, just to say that I have no idea what our paper-brandishing friend was aiming at when claiming proudly that Aquinas understood evolution long before Darwin.

Edit:

Dawkins hinted at the reason himself when he talked dismissively about people trying to retro-fit modern science onto often cryptic lines of scripture [or other religious writings], and then claiming this proves that their religion was the fount of scientific knowledge. I'd agree with him, only part of me says we should be thankful these scriptural revisionists aren't creationists.

MrPudding

Calibos wrote: »

The previous question was about whether evolution will keep on producing more intelligent people or something like that. Dawkins used a funny example of how that might not necessarily be the case. That without much further selective pressure for big brains, selective pressure for the opposite might actually take over, that selective pressure being the stupid clumbsy people who can't put on a condom right will produce more children....

Have you seen “Idiocracy?”:D

Calibos wrote: »

This guy who mentions he was the last of 13th children takes that personally and interprets this as elitist and insult to his family background. However while Dawkins is obviously talking about the Pyjama wearing Jacintas with 5 kids by 5 different fathers, he takes it personally not realising the example doesn't apply to his family of 13 where it was not necessarily lack of intelligence or condom fumbling that led to 13 kids but merely adherance to a religious doctrine of not wearing a condom at all. Folling a religious doctrine does not mean someone is stupid. UNfortunately this guy didn't make that distinction.

I think it could be argued that following a religious doctrine does in fact make someone stupid. Particularly when this doctrine dictates that each act of intercourse could result in a child.

I saw a programme about large families a while back. Once of the families they followed was a Spanish catholic family. They had something like 15 kids. They would have had 17 but two died from a congenital heart defect. Another two of the live children had it and they knew that any subsequent children born had a chance of having the defect. But they were still having unprotected sex, as they had to because they were catholic.

That is beyond stupid.

[/quote]

DapperGent

berengar wrote: »

Would be nice to see the Dawk machine give a lecture ..

Five hours of coolness here:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=ED4BA3683D0273ED

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

But they were still having unprotected sex, as they had to because they were catholic. That is beyond stupid.

1 Timothy 2:15 doesn't get out much these days, but from the memetic point of view, it's a clear instruction to breed as quickly as possible, with evolutionarily-predictable consequences:

1 Timothy 2:15 wrote:

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

JonThom

Waterstones Dawson St. have signed copies of the trade paperback of Greatest Show On Earth for €8.50. Not too shabby a price at all.

Calibos

MrPudding wrote: »

Have you seen “Idiocracy?”:D



I think it could be argued that following a religious doctrine does in fact make someone stupid. Particularly when this doctrine dictates that each act of intercourse could result in a child.

I saw a programme about large families a while back. Once of the families they followed was a Spanish catholic family. They had something like 15 kids. They would have had 17 but two died from a congenital heart defect. Another two of the live children had it and they knew that any subsequent children born had a chance of having the defect. But they were still having unprotected sex, as they had to because they were catholic.

That is beyond stupid.

[/QUOTE]

Indeed, I have and I always linked to the opening few minutes on Youtube when this topic came up until Youtube pulled the clip.

Another quote also springs to mind when this subject comes up. Bill Hicks' "Thunk....another little miracle....thunk....and another little miracle...."

Morbert

So when is this being aired? Or did I miss it?

tricky D

MrPudding wrote: »

Have you seen “Idiocracy?”:D

Clip 1
Clip 2

Brought to you by Carl's Junior

MrPudding

Calibos wrote:

Another quote also springs to mind when this subject comes up. Bill Hicks' "Thunk....another little miracle....thunk....and another little miracle...."

Quality, I loved that one.

tricky D wrote: »

Clip 1
Clip 2

Brought to you by Carl Juniors

MrP

ChocolateSauce

Calibos wrote: »

Stylish Hat???

Was Chocolate Sauce the V for Vendetta guy??

Aye, that was me.:pac: For further comparison, see this.

Dude needs to grow a moustache to finish the Vendetta look though.

I've been trying for years, but my facial hair grows extremely slowly!

apoch632

Richard Dawkins and Jimmy Carr on tonight

Should keep the Blue rinse brigade of Ireland happy

Calibos

apoch632 wrote: »

Richard Dawkins and Jimmy Carr on tonight

Should keep the Blue rinse brigade of Ireland happy

I recommend that if tonights late late is anything like the last time RD appeared on the show, we should move further discussion to the 'Losing Faith in Humanity' thread.

ironingbored

No mention of Dawkins in Tubridy's intro.

Mystery guest?

adamd164

ironingbored wrote: »

No mention of Dawkins in Tubridy's intro.

Mystery guest?

Woman before the programme started mentioned the "evolution revolution"... presume that refers to him?

Morbert

I noticed no mention of him too. Are we sure he's on the late late? What's the source?

Some guy mentioned a few pages back that he got tickets to the Late Late at Dawkins at the RDS, so I don't know why they'd be giving them out unless he was going to be a guest on it...

liamw

Morbert wrote: »

I noticed no mention of him too. Are we sure he's on the late late? What's the source?

http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/20090911.html 3:35 into the Hurt video

pts

He's on now, is that the same tie as yesterday?

Dades

In case anyone's wondering I'm moved the rest of the Late Late show posts to the new thread.

Kthxbye.