Planning Permission Required?

okeeffd

Hi,
I am new to this so hope someone can help me. I am looking to build and extension on the rear of my house that currently has a kitchen extension on it (Was built like that). I want to build a 3.1 meter wide by 4.5 meter longs and extend the current kitchen inline with new extension. The extension will cover the back of the down stairs of the house with an Apex roof. Do i require planning permission?

Poor Uncle Tom

Some questions first, I'm afraid......

When you say (Was built like that) I am taking it the house does not in fact have any extension, it is in the state it was built in, Y/N?

What size is the existing kitchen offset? Please take your measurements inside or outside but tell us which.

What thickness of outside wall does the house have?

What will be the overall outside height of the extension in relation to the existing house?

Is your house a detached or semi-detached house?

How close are the boundaries, back and sides from the house?

okeeffd

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Some questions first, I'm afraid......

When you say (Was built like that) I am taking it the house does not in fact have any extension, it is in the state it was built in, Y/N? Yes

What size is the existing kitchen offset? Please take your measurements inside or outside but tell us which. 10ft

What thickness of outside wall does the house have? 8Inch Cavity

What will be the overall outside height of the extension in relation to the existing house? Up to the bottom of the bedroom window.

Is your house a detached or semi-detached house? Semi Detatched

How close are the boundaries, back and sides from the house? attached to the left, 14 foot from rear wall, no walll to the right.

ballsymchugh

yes you do. basically anything that can alter the dimensions of your house will need planning permission.

leeroybrown

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yes you do. basically anything that can alter the dimensions of your house will need planning permission.

That's not true. There are exceptions where small extensions at the rear of a private house do not require planning permission. It's dependent on the extra floor area, height, remaining outdoor space and other criteria. That's why 'Poor Uncle Tom' was asking questions above.

okeeffd

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yes you do. basically anything that can alter the dimensions of your house will need planning permission.

What if i just went out as far as the kitchen, would i need planning permission?

ballsymchugh

leeroybrown wrote: »

That's not true. There are exceptions where small extensions at the rear of a private house do not require planning permission. It's dependent on the extra floor area, height, remaining outdoor space and other criteria. That's why 'Poor Uncle Tom' was asking questions above.

check with your local planning officer then, you wouldn't want to go against his guidelines for whatever area he/she covers and find out that you'll have to take it down or apply for retention. and there are differences between planning officers, even though they should really be singing from the same sheet.

picorette

From what you have already stated, and as long as you can satisfy the following conditions, you will be exempted from Planning Permission.

1. There are no other extensions to the house
2. The extension is totally to the rear of the house and inside the line of the side wall.
3. The extension is single storey and the height of the extension roof is not above the eaves of the existing house.
4. No window is within one metre of the boundary it faces.
5. Remaining open space in garden is 25 square metres or more.

If you want a legal document to confirm this, and go with your Title deeds, make a 'Section 5' application to your Local Authority.

muffler

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yes you do. basically anything that can alter the dimensions of your house will need planning permission.

When you don't understand the scope of the exempted development that is enshrined in the Planning & Development regs you really shouldnt make such wildly inaccurate statements.

Mellor

Wow, I'm really tempted to lock this thread so the OP can start again. There has only been you decent reply, the rest is horribly wrong.

OP, my advice you you is to speak to somebody locally who knows what they are talking about. Pay attention to nothing on this thread so far (except Tom's questions).
Basically, planning may be exempt, but there are a few things that need to be confirmed and this is often hard to do over the internet.

ballsymchugh wrote: »

yes you do. basically anything that can alter the dimensions of your house will need planning permission.

This is not even remotely true.
do not post advice when you clearly have no idea of the area. Anyone with even the faintest knowledge of planning is aware of exempt development

ballsymchugh wrote: »

check with your local planning officer then, you wouldn't want to go against his guidelines for whatever area he/she covers and find out that you'll have to take it down or apply for retention. and there are differences between planning officers, even though they should really be singing from the same sheet.

Again this is nonsense too.
A local planning officer doesn't have guidelines for exemption, anywhere. There are no differences between areas, and they all "sing off the same sheet". Which would be schedule 2 of the 2001 planning regulations. It lists all exemptions in black and white. This is bread and butter stuff.
basically, everything you said is wrong, I have no idea where you got this from.

(just to prevent the smart reply for one of the regulars, i'm aware that the velux issue and some similar issues are cases of planning depts own rules, but its the exception obviously)

picorette wrote: »

From what you have already stated, and as long as you can satisfy the following conditions, you will be exempted from Planning Permission.

1. There are no other extensions to the house
2. The extension is totally to the rear of the house and inside the line of the side wall.
3. The extension is single storey and the height of the extension roof is not above the eaves of the existing house.
4. No window is within one metre of the boundary it faces.
5. Remaining open space in garden is 25 square metres or more.

Again, please do not post advice like this if you are not 100% sure about what you are saying. Where did you get this? I'm guessing it was from memory, but its pretty much way off. I understand you were trying to help, but if you are not sure, check first. Out of those 5 conditions, only 2 are correct.

1. An existing extension doesn't prevent an exempt extension being built (subject to area)
2. The extension doesn't have to be single story. Two story can also be exempt.
3. the limits on windows are not alway 1m, above ground floor a 11m limit applies

There are 7 conditions that must be adhered to for exemption.

1. Total area less than 40 m2 (including any previous extension, exempt or otherwise)
2. First floor extensions limited to 20m2 for detached houses, 12m2 for all others (including any previous extension exempt or otherwise)
3. First floor extensions to be not less than 2m from boundary
4. Walls and roof are not to exceed the existing walls and roof in height
5. Private open space to remain above 25m2
6. Distance to boundary from windows to be 1m at ground floor, 11m at first floor
7. The roof cannot be used as a balcony or garden

Poor Uncle Tom

Mellor wrote: »

There are 7 conditions that must be adhered to for exemption.

1. Total area less than 40 m2 (including any previous extension, exempt or otherwise)
2. First floor extensions limited to 20m2 for detached houses, 12m2 for all others (including any previous extension exempt or otherwise)
3. First floor extensions to be not less than 2m from boundary
4. Walls and roof are not to exceed the existing walls and roof in height
5. Private open space to remain above 25m2
6. Distance to boundary from windows to be 1m at ground floor, 11m at first floor
7. The roof cannot be used as a balcony or garden

As stated this is the list of requirements as taken from..
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0600.html#sched2

Please get a good local AT to advise you. It is very important that you treat the boundary with your semi-detached neighbour correctly and your extension design will need to reflect this, no overhanging, no trespass, distance of windows facing this side, etc.

picorette

Mellor wrote: »

Again, please do not post advice like this if you are not 100% sure about what you are saying. Where did you get this? I'm guessing it was from memory, but its pretty much way off. I understand you were trying to help, but if you are not sure, check first. Out of those 5 conditions, only 2 are correct.

1. An existing extension doesn't prevent an exempt extension being built (subject to area)
2. The extension doesn't have to be single story. Two story can also be exempt.
3. the limits on windows are not alway 1m, above ground floor a 11m limit applies

Mellor,
My reply was attempting to directly answer the OPs question whether PP was required for his extension. Maybe it was my fault in the way that I worded it but my advice attempted to clarify on certain aspects without seeing a drawing - as you say, it is often hard to do so over the internet - and was specific to the original posters question. It was not to be taken as applicable to any exempt development question and to be used outside this situation, and certainly not a full list of all conditions for exempted development. Apologies if that was not clear in my reply.

eggerb

picorette wrote: »

...
2. The extension is totally to the rear of the house and inside the line of the side wall....

I would question the second part of this viz. "inside the line of the side wall".

I know of a Section 5 Declaration being issued even though the proposed extension projected approximately 1m beyond the existing side gable wall. The planner referenced http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/RF1/RRF1018.pdf in his report.

Essentially, as no part of the proposed extension occupied the space adjoining the side wall, it was not considered to be an extension 'to the side' but an extension 'to the rear' only.

Mellor

picorette wrote: »

Mellor,
My reply was attempting to directly answer the OPs question whether PP was required for his extension. Maybe it was my fault in the way that I worded it but my advice attempted to clarify on certain aspects without seeing a drawing - as you say, it is often hard to do so over the internet - and was specific to the original posters question. It was not to be taken as applicable to any exempt development question and to be used outside this situation, and certainly not a full list of all conditions for exempted development. Apologies if that was not clear in my reply.

I know it wasn't intended to be a full list of conditions, but my problem with it was the fact that two of the conditions you listed were wrong.
Specifically;

picorette wrote: »

1. There are no other extensions to the house
3. The extension is single storey and the height of the extension roof is not above the eaves of the existing house.

As I said, you are not limited to single story, nor are you limited my previous extensions (especailly relevant to this thread as the proposed extension is less than 14m2). The advice, could of mislead the OP.

eggerb wrote: »

I would question the second part of this viz. "inside the line of the side wall".

I know of a Section 5 Declaration being issued even though the proposed extension projected approximately 1m beyond the existing side gable wall. The planner referenced http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/RF1/RRF1018.pdf in his report.

Essentially, as no part of the proposed extension occupied the space adjoining the side wall, it was not considered to be an extension 'to the side' but an extension 'to the rear' only.

The exception rather than the rule

eggerb

Mellor wrote: »

The exception rather than the rule

In the above case, the Planning Authority argued that the development was not fully to the rear of the house as part of the development protruded beyond the side building line. However, the An Bord Pleanála inspector found that "the only reasonable interpretation of the areas which are, arguably, both to the rear and to the side or to the front and to the side is they are located to the front or rear of the dwellinghouse."

The common perception (and therefore, often cited as "the rule") is certainly that if the development protrudes beyond the side building line, it is not exempt. However, the above case illustrates that An Bord Pleanála's interpretation of the law is contraray to this common perception.

muffler

eggerb wrote: »

The common perception is certainly that if the development protrudes beyond the side building line, it is not exempt. However, the above case illustrates that An Bord Pleanála's interpretation of the law is contraray to this common perception.

I would put that in reverse by saying that the so called common practice of putting a certain interpretation of the law is contrary to An Bord Pleanála's interpretation.

Nothing new about this at all in Donegal. It was always accepted and confirmed by the PA that the development was exempt so long as it didnt protrude forward of the rear building line.

Mellor

It varies from PA to PA, as with everything else, its best if we take the more restrictive route here and everyone checks there own PA