Automatic Guardianship for BOTH Parents

Klingon Hamlet

The Law Reform Commission has restated (as it did 27 YEARS AGO!) that both parents are equally as important in the rearing of children and should be both granted equal parental rights, with the attached parental responsibilities that go with those rights.

I as a single father promote this, because the legal battle to cement one's right as father before the court is long, drawn-out,and extremely painful.

Ray Kelly of USFI (www.usfi.ie) features in the video on Six One on www.rte.ie (scroll down).

According to the video, 1 in 3 children are born to unwed families.

That means 33% of dads either need the child's mother's permission, or the court's permission, to be a dad.

Time for a change? The commission think so. They in fact said so in 1982!

Opinions / debates welcome.

_ZeeK_

I think one of the reasons why unmarried fathers receive no automatic guardianship rights at present is to take account of children born out of rape.

There must be another way to prevent these people from getting guardianship without affecting bona fide fathers.

Klingon Hamlet

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

I think one of the reasons why unmarried fathers receive no automatic guardianship rights at present is to take account of children born out of rape.

There must be another way to prevent these people from getting guardianship without affecting bona fide fathers.

Yep:

Possible Way 1: In the hospital, a form could be signed by both parents.

Possible Way 2: Signed on filling out birth cert.

994

But if a woman rapes a man, or statutorily rapes a boy, that doesn't affect her rights to a child ...

Joey the lips

Klingon Hamlet wrote: »

The Law Reform Commission has restated (as it did 27 YEARS AGO!) that both parents are equally as important in the rearing of children and should be both granted equal parental rights, with the attached parental responsibilities that go with those rights.

I as a single father promote this, because the legal battle to cement one's right as father before the court is long, drawn-out,and extremely painful.

Ray Kelly of USFI (www.usfi.ie) features in the video on Six One on www.rte.ie (scroll down).

According to the video, 1 in 3 children are born to unwed families.

That means 33% of dads either need the child's mother's permission, or the court's permission, to be a dad.

Time for a change? The commission think so. They in fact said so in 1982!

Opinions / debates welcome.

Hi OP. i understand the plight in general but dont agree with this post.
With the greatest of respect when you done the deed you knew the consequences! Also I wonder does this stat allow for the amount of fathers who live with there partners to defraud the system?

What needs to change is the system. If you have a child and do not declare the father there should be consequences. This is why the system is so wrong! There is so many people doing the illegal thing that the legal route has no standing!

994

Joey the lips wrote: »

With the greatest of respect when you done the deed you knew the consequences!

Does anyone say that to a woman seeking an abortion/adoption?

Joey the lips

994 wrote: »

Does anyone say that to a woman seeking an abortion/adoption?

Whats that got to do with this thread?

and simu as far as i know if a father is listed on the birth cert his concent is required for adoption.

As for abortion as i do not carry a baby i am not in the position to discuss why a women considers abortion!

thebman

Joey the lips wrote: »

Hi OP. i understand the plight in general but dont agree with this post.
With the greatest of respect when you done the deed you knew the consequences! Also I wonder does this stat allow for the amount of fathers who live with there partners to defraud the system?

What needs to change is the system. If you have a child and do not declare the father there should be consequences. This is why the system is so wrong! There is so many people doing the illegal thing that the legal route has no standing!

Eh some people just don't see the point of marriage anymore or get pregnant before they are at that stage in their relationship but decide to have the kid anyway (not much choice really given abortion is illegal in this country).

I'd say thats the majority of cases TBH. Not everyone is out to defraud the system and just because a few are abusing the system does not mean we should try to screw up everyone else who is a legitimate case.

Orion

Joey the lips wrote: »

and simu as far as i know if a father is listed on the birth cert his concent is required for adoption.

That's actually not true. The legal guardian can put a child up for adoption without reference to anyone else. In fact, if the mother dies and the father isn't the legal guardian her next of kin becomes the guardian.

In response to the rape issue - from the Irish Times: "it stopped short of suggesting automatic rights, claiming this would give rapists and sex offenders access ... Raymond Byrne, the commission’s head of research, said fathers should be given improved rights unless it’s not in the child’s best interests."

nesf

_ZeeK_ wrote: »

I think one of the reasons why unmarried fathers receive no automatic guardianship rights at present is to take account of children born out of rape.

There must be another way to prevent these people from getting guardianship without affecting bona fide fathers.

I think the guideline proposed was something along the lines of the father being giving joint custody unless it could be shown that it would not be in the child's best interests. This would easily exclude rapists since it's not exactly in the best interests of the child to have their mother's rapist as a guardian.

Klingon Hamlet

Right now fathers need to go to court to fight for guardianship if the mother disagrees.

What the Law Reform argues is that it's unfair that a child born out of wedlock gets one automatic parent whereas a child born into wedlock gets two.

NOTE: 33% of Ireland's children are born out of wedlock, therefore, in the eyes of the law, illegitimate.

This is discrimination and it needs to stop IMO.

On another topic, the court clerks make it even more difficult. Anyone who's been to Dolphin House will know!

Joey the lips

thebman wrote: »

Eh some people just don't see the point of marriage anymore or get pregnant before they are at that stage in their relationship but decide to have the kid anyway (not much choice really given abortion is illegal in this country).

I'd say thats the majority of cases TBH. Not everyone is out to defraud the system and just because a few are abusing the system does not mean we should try to screw up everyone else who is a legitimate case.

Very confusing. your missing my point as well.

Macros42 wrote: »

That's actually not true. The legal guardian can put a child up for adoption without reference to anyone else. In fact, if the mother dies and the father isn't the legal guardian her next of kin becomes the guardian.

In response to the rape issue - from the Irish Times: "it stopped short of suggesting automatic rights, claiming this would give rapists and sex offenders access ... Raymond Byrne, the commission’s head of research, said fathers should be improved rights unless it’s not in the child’s best interests."

My apologies. I did not know that. I actually do however remember an article along those lines.