Lisbon: Mícheál Martin destroys British eurosceptic on Pat Kenny

Rebelheart

Did anybody hear Mícheál Martin on Today with Pat Kenny this morning?

He was ruthless. I've never seen him with such an edge. He was debating in favour of Lisbon against some guy who had an English accent and was named 'Nigel'. A google when I got home this evening reveals this Nigel guy to be somebody named Nigel Farage who is leader of a political party named United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP).

He made this Farage guy to seem like a complete loony. Apparently, Farage wants to scrap the Good Friday Agreement and force all nationalists in the north to take an oath of allegiance to the British crown. Farage also rejects the idea of global warming, wants to abolish CAP and loads more stuff. Anyway, that's by-the-by, but Martin succeeded in portraying him as a rabid British eurosceptic naturally disposed to hating the Irish - "if Nigel had his way all Irish people in Britain would be subject to border controls" - who was using the Lisbon 'No' vote to campaign against the EU.

Have a listen to the podcast here: http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2009/pc/pod-v-090909-28m17s-todaywithpatkenny.mp3


For years I have admired Martin, primarily due to the smoking ban but also because he regularly appears in interviews in Irish and I admire that open-mindedness and cultural intelligence greatly. However, until today I thought he was just a nice guy with a charming smile and a bit of culture.

If only the 'Yes' side had even one other politician as informed, passionately pro-European, lucid and refreshing. Most of all, I really shared the reasons why we should vote 'Yes', why Ireland's future is with the EU and why it would be a backward step to reject the EU and align with British eurosceptics. It is long overdue that a public figure has articulated this, and passionately too. Táim an-bhuíoch díot, Mícheál Ó Máirtín.


PS: I loved the line Martin had when Farage said "you can't stop him [Martin], can you", to which Martin said, "well, you can't anyway".

FlutterinBantam

yep heard that interview/debate... Martin was impressive, put the saddle on the guy and rode him to death(metaphorically of course).

Kenny wasn't exactly impartial on the time given to each guy.

Martin just kept talking and wiped poor Nigel out.

Dinner

Martin did well I think. Although Farage is a bit of a soft target to debate against, it's impossible for him to open his mouth without a lie falling out.

sceptre

Moved to the EU forum.

P. Breathnach

Rebelheart wrote: »

... He made this Farage guy to seem like a complete loony...

I thought Farage did that with no external assistance.

Daftendirekt

Thanks for posting OP.

I have to admit this is one of the very few times I've listened to Martin debate anything. I thought he handled it pretty well.

One criticism though: he was great with the 'keep Ireland at the heart of the EU' rhetoric, but this was the biggest weakness of the Yes campaign last year. True, he made Farage look like a moron, but Fargage helped him out a lot with that.

In the post linked to in my sig, Sink lists ten very specific advantages of the Lisbon treaty. Martin had plenty of opportunity to mention something like the increase in power to the Parliament, or the Citizens' Initiative when Farage was harping on about how Lisbon would destroy democracy in Europe, and take away Irish independence. So why didn't he?

I think the Yes side debaters really need to focus on the advantages of the treaty itself this time round. I do agree that a Yes vote will be good for Ireland's position in Europe; from an objective point of view, simply asserting this repeatedly makes it seem like this is the best anyone can come up with as an argument for a Yes vote. Which, understandably, makes people cynical.

thebman

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

yep heard that interview/debate... Martin was impressive, put the saddle on the guy and rode him to death(metaphorically of course).

Kenny wasn't exactly impartial on the time given to each guy.

Martin just kept talking and wiped poor Nigel out.

I don't see why he would give equal time to the UKIP guy TBH.

I'm sick of seeing deceitful people being given time to shout their lies.

Keewee6

thebman wrote: »

I don't see why he would give equal time to the UKIP guy TBH.

I'm sick of seeing deceitful people being given time to shout their lies.

personally i have no time for coir or the UKIP

ei.sdraob

lol priceless

"can you explain who they are? we send people to brussels, yee send people to brussels..."

rofl, well done pat

ei.sdraob

Keewee6 wrote: »

personally i have no time for coir or the UKIP

im still waiting for you to provide 1 reason to vote note thats based on anything in the treaty

---

@5-6mins

did the UKIP accuse EU for balkans war! woa! just woa!

someone should point to the nice wars in Iraq and Afganistan that his country jumped in after the americans despite mass protests from the people

---

@8:20

"Nigel, fundamental agenda that your party has to be fair, is that you
* dont believe in the European union,
* you would like to scrap European union"
* just as much as you would like to scrap the Good Friday agreement
...
* you would force the northern nationalists to swear allegiance to the Crown
* you dont believe in climate change"


woa! nail meet hammer


for all the nonsense from about Sarcozy from the NO side,

here we have an Englishman using Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty to further his agenda

who would have imagined such a day


/

Keewee6

i dont think i can convince sorry about that

Judgement Day

Jesus OP you are easily impressed! Micheal Martin comes across as a schoolboy, always has, always will. The idea of Micheal Martin destroying anybody reminds me of Denis Healy (the British Labour MP) who described an attack on him by Geoffrey Howe (the British Conservative MP) in the House of Commons as like being savaged by a dead sheep! Micheal Martin is an overbearing FF prig.

Vote NO, early and often!

bill_ashmount

Why did Mícheál Martin attempt to wipe the balkans war from history? lol

PopeBuckfastXVI

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Why did Mícheál Martin wipe the balkans war from history? lol

One can only presume he was talking about wars within the EU?

bill_ashmount

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

One can only presume he was talking about wars within the EU?

Then why did he say European continent?

bill_ashmount

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

One can only presume he was talking about wars within the EU?

Still, nice that the genocide in the Balkans can give the likes of yourself and Mr. Farage a little bit of a lol...

It doesn't give me a lol, I find the arrogance of Martin wiping it from history to build his argument to be a massive insult to all those that died.

PopeBuckfastXVI

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Then why did he say European continent?

You'd have to ask him. On the bright side Mr. Farage and yourself got a nice little debating point out of the Balkans genocide.

PopeBuckfastXVI

bill_ashmount wrote: »

It doesn't give me a lol, I find the arrogance of Martin wiping it from history to build his argument to be a massive insult to all those that died.

Yes I've removed that from my OP... bad taste... more of a debating point than a lol... as above

bill_ashmount

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

You'd have to ask him. On the bright side Mr. Farage and yourself got a nice little debating point out of the Balkans genocide.

lol, I don't need to ask him, I quoted what he said, you attempted to change his quote to the EU to suit your argument.

PopeBuckfastXVI

bill_ashmount wrote: »

lol, I don't need to ask him, I quoted what he said, you attempted to change his quote to the EU to suit your argument.

No, I presumed, without having seen the quote, when you told me what he actually said I said you'd have to ask him.

You didn't actually quote anything about the European Continent before my initial response as per:

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Why did Mícheál Martin attempt to wipe the balkans war from history? lol

marco_polo

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

One can only presume he was talking about wars within the EU?

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Then why did he say European continent?

Your arguments against the Lisbon treaty are getting more persuasive by the day. :rolleyes:

FutureTaoiseach

From my reading of it the texts were about half-half for-against.

Thomas828

It was a bit unfair of Pat, putting a half-wit like Nigel who knows precious little about the Irish against Mr Martin. Someone from Sinn Fein would have made a better case for voting no.

ei.sdraob

Thomas828 wrote: »

It was a bit unfair of Pat, putting a half-wit like Nigel who knows precious little about the Irish against Mr Martin. Someone from Sinn Fein would have made a better case for voting no.

If he doesnt know anything about the Irish

then why the **** is himself and his party getting involved in Ireland

who in Ireland does he represent and speak for

FutureTaoiseach

I assume from the anti-UKIP remarks on this thread that the yes campaigners will also call on pro-Lisbon parties in the European Parliament to stay out of our referendum debate?

BlitzKrieg

does that include the ones who have elected representatives from ireland?

marco_polo

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

I assume from the anti-UKIP remarks on this thread that the yes campaigners will also call on pro-Lisbon parties in the European Parliament to stay out of our referendum debate?

Sure will as soon as they start appearing on my TV and shoving stuff through my letterbox.

Steviemak

marco_polo wrote: »

Sure will as soon as they start appearing on my TV and shoving stuff through my letterbox.

And when they say the Irish are not welcome in their country or tell my friends in the north that they are not Irish and should be forced to declare allegiance to the British crown.....

FutureTaoiseach

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

does that include the ones who have elected representatives from ireland?

Yes. It's an Irish referendum campaign, and should be left to the Irish people to address. Non-Irish members of these groups have no mandate from the Irish people.

ei.sdraob

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Yes. It's an Irish referendum campaign, and should be left to the Irish people to address. Non-Irish members of these groups have no mandate from the Irish people.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62048571&postcount=173


well that answers your own question here so

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62048602&postcount=174

FutureTaoiseach

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62048571&postcount=173


well that answers your own question here so

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62048602&postcount=174

I suppose it does. I meant from your point of view, what was the problem?