We are going to the playoffs - discussion

darkman2

Right, some will say we are not technically there quite yet but given the circumstances we will almost certainly now be in the playoffs.



What are your thoughts? Who are the likely contenders from the other groups? Who do you reckon we genuinely have a chance against? How do you think FIFA will line up the pots for the draw? They always have an odd mechanism. We don't know this year's yet. But for sure, given our ranking, we can be assured it will work against us.


What are our chances do you reckon? Overall not good I think unless we get a very lucky draw. No easy teams. Some nightmare teams aswell for WC playoffs could well be in there like Germany, France and (dear god) Turkey, Istanbul anyone?

madma

I think we can beat Italy, and with cannavarro suspended that is a massive boost.

if we do beat them we have an easier tie against montenegro and italy are at home to cyprus and as we know they are now pushovers...... were still in with a shout!!!!!!!!!!!

ANTIFA!

I think we'll get France and beat them in Paris.

Headshot

Woah we're going to the playoffs

Unearthly

Germany or Russia(from same group thankfully) would be a nightmare

Mr Moon

madma wrote: »

I think we can beat Italy, and with cannavarro suspended that is a massive boost.

if we do beat them we have an easier tie against montenegro and italy are at home to cyprus and as we know they are now pushovers...... were still in with a shout!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt if we do win our last two matches that Italy will loose theirs!!

Cyprus are no pushovers for us, but away to Italy they don't have a chance!

Mr.Nice Guy

Group 4's representative is the one to avoid really. If it's not Russia in there it will be Germany and I don't think we've a hope against either. I would think we have a decent enough chance against the average-ish sides in there, which we are ourselves let's be honest.

_blank_

Were any other teams that look like being in the play-offs a third seed or less in the draw?

darkman2

Des wrote: »

Were any other teams that look like being in the play-offs a third seed or less in the draw?

Slovenia?

8-10

Des wrote: »

Were any other teams that look like being in the play-offs a third seed or less in the draw?

Norway - 3rd
Bosnia - 4th
Slovenia - 5th seeds

Northern Ireland and Ukraine still have a chance, both were 3rd, as well as Latvia level on points in their playoff spot who were 5th seeds.

noodler

8-10 wrote: »

Norway - 3rd
Bosnia - 4th
Slovenia - 5th seeds

Northern Ireland and Ukraine still have a chance, both were 3rd, as well as Latvia level on points in their playoff spot who were 5th seeds.

Are not the chances of Norway being in the playoffs tiny due to their points total?

Ifsomeone picks up a 2nd yellow VS Italy, is there any way they would miss the play offs? (assuming we make them!)

Playing Italy at croker will be good preperation for the likely uphill battle we will face in the play-offs.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I think that Yellows and suspensions carry into the playoffs.

I reckon that we are going to struggle but as long as we avoid russia/germany then I would at the very least give us a chance.

A_Fitz

The result tonight take's a bit of excitement from the Italy game, but overall I think it might work in our favour; afterall, the pressure is off Italy now n' they don't really need to beat us, whereas if they did need to beat us, it's quite possible, maybe even probable, that they would. Two draws will do us now, won't they?

As for the play-offs, some of our possible opponents do not fill me with enthusiasm about our chances of getting through. Hopefully Steven Reid will be back by then, 'cos sure as **** we need him

Mr.Nice Guy

A_Fitz wrote: »

The result tonight take's a bit of excitement from the Italy game, but overall I think it might work in our favour; afterall, the pressure is off Italy now n' they don't really need to beat us, whereas if they did need to beat us, it's quite possible, maybe even probable, that they would. Two draws will do us now, won't they?

I think just one draw will be enough as Norway are stuck on 10 points like us but we have two games over them.

I think as far as the Italy game goes Dunphy's prediction of a 0-0 draw looks a good bet. A point will secure Italy of the automatic place whereas for Ireland a point secures us of the play-off place. I wouldn't be surprised if Trap will be having a sly word with Mr Lippi, maybe send him a bottle of wine or perhaps a few cans of Guinness... :cool:

citytillidie

To try and clear this up

Ireland need one more point to make the playoffs if they finish 2nd in the group.

Currently the following teams all have 10 Points

Bosnia GD +8
Greece GD +3
Norway GD +2
Ireland GD +2

Sweden currently are missing out with 9 points but play away to Denmark and Home to Albania so could go up to 15 points as Malta are the team bottom of their group.

Norway are the only team who cant increase there points total so 1 point for Ireland will leave them on 11 and Norway 10 and bottom if Sweden win their games

ArmaniJeanss

Whats going to be huge is whether or not its a seeded draw (no official decision has ever been announced either way afaik).

We are likely to be unseeded which would put us on a collision course with one of France, Russia/Germany, maybe Portugal etc.

Unearthly

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Whats going to be huge is whether or not its a seeded draw (no official decision has ever been announced either way afaik).

We are likely to be unseeded which would put us on a collision course with one of France, Russia/Germany, maybe Portugal etc.

If the playoff is seeded then we are doomed.

Please god don't let it be.

A_Fitz

citytillidie wrote: »

To try and clear this up

Ireland need one more point to make the playoffs if they finish 2nd in the group.

Currently the following teams all have 10 Points

Bosnia GD +8
Greece GD +3
Norway GD +2
Ireland GD +2

Sweden currently are missing out with 9 points but play away to Denmark and Home to Albania so could go up to 15 points as Malta are the team bottom of their group.

Norway are the only team who cant increase there points total so 1 point for Ireland will leave them on 11 and Norway 10 and bottom if Sweden win their games

What bearing, if any, will our points/goal difference have on the play-off draw??

citytillidie

A_Fitz wrote: »

What bearing, if any, will our points/goal difference have on the play-off draw??

Finishing 2nd does not mean your in the play offs one team will miss out so we have to better Norways point total

A_Fitz

citytillidie wrote: »

Finishing 2nd does not mean your in the play offs one team will miss out so we have to better Norways point total

Ah a point is a given, surely

citytillidie

I hope so but you can never count your chickens in football

flahavaj

The reality of the matter is that most teams, if given the choice in the draw, would probably pick us as one of their first choices to play. Especially if they looked at our performances so far in the qualifiers.:(

Daysha

Group 1 - Could be any of Denmark, Portugal, Sweden and Hungary. Going on the fixtures remaining, it'll probably be Portugal
Group 2 - More than likely Greece
Group 3 - Either Slovenia or Czech Rep, N. Ireland are a huge outside bet now,
Group 4 - The losers of Russia/Germany next month. Russia are at home, but if it's a draw, Germany top the group.
Group 5 - Should be Bosnia
Group 6 - Croatia are favourites, but if Ukraine get a result against an already qualified England side they'll be in the driving seat.
Group 7 - More than likely France.
Group 8 - Us
Group 8 - Nobody. Norway's 10 points should make them the worst 2nd place team, even after the 6th place deductions take place.

Yeah, tough looking games there. Bosnia, Greece, Hungary or Slovenia is the dream scenario. Any of France, Portugal, Germany or Russia the worst obviously.

8-10

Daysha wrote: »

Group 1 - Could be any of Denmark, Portugal, Sweden and Hungary. Going on the fixtures remaining, it'll probably be Portugal
Group 2 - More than likely Greece
Group 3 - Either Slovenia or Czech Rep, N. Ireland are a huge outside bet now,
Group 4 - The losers of Russia/Germany next month. Russia are at home, but if it's a draw, Germany top the group.
Group 5 - Should be Bosnia
Group 6 - Croatia are favourites, but if Ukraine get a result against an already qualified England side they'll be in the driving seat.
Group 7 - More than likely France.
Group 8 - Us
Group 8 - Nobody. Norway's 10 points should make them the worst 2nd place team, even after the 6th place deductions take place.

Yeah, tough looking games there. Bosnia, Greece, Hungary or Slovenia is the dream scenario. Any of France, Portugal, Germany or Russia the worst obviously.

Bosnia a dream scenario? Ha!

Zonda999

Daysha wrote: »

Yeah, tough looking games there. Bosnia, Greece, Hungary or Slovenia is the dream scenario.

Certainly the hope alright. I think we'd have a pretty decent chance against Hungary or Slovenia. Bosnia would be tough IMO and Greece, dont know a whole lot about them but they did win Euro2004:pac:

If its one of the other four, very unlikely we'd come through the two legs. I got a sneaking feeling we'll get Portugal, for some reason. No idea why!

Daysha

8-10 wrote: »

Bosnia a dream scenario? Ha!

Compared to some of the other teams yeah. We could take them.

Zonda999 wrote: »

If its one of the other four, very unlikely we'd come through the two legs. I got a sneaking feeling we'll get Portugal, for some reason. No idea why!

Cristiano Ronaldo up against Kevin Kilbane.

Tomthepost

Given that this is the worst Irish team in the last 30 years IMO getting to the play-offs is good enough for me.
I doubt whatever the draw is that we will be able to pull through but Trapp is ' a lucky manager' so you never know!

ANTIFA!

Like us all of Bosnias players play outside their home country!!! Rare for a European country. They're not good though, we have better players. On the flipside they appear to be more of a team.

A_Fitz

flahavaj wrote: »

The reality of the matter is that most teams, if given the choice in the draw, would probably pick us as one of their first choices to play. Especially if they looked at our performances so far in the qualifiers.:(

No one could said we'd be easy to beat though - I think most managers would arther avoid us

this is the worst Irish team in the last 30 years

Not a hope

ANTIFA!

We have a Champions League level forward line imo and without doubt a Champions League level goalkeeper.

Keane and Doyle are better than Dzeko and Ibisevic. The difference is Bosnias manager structures the team to get the best out of his attackers. Trap seems hell bent on living up to the stereotype that Irish couldn't possibly attempt to play football so better off booting it long and hoping for the best.

We need Fahey or Andy Reid to get the best out of these two phenominal players. I really want to see Fahey for us, I've been calling for his inclusion for 18 months now and felt without question he should have been called up for the Poland game while still at Pat's.

Jayob10

This will be the draw. I had a dream I tell ye!

France v. Ukraine

Russia v. Greece

Portugal v. Bosnia

Czech Republic v Ireland

A_Fitz

ANTIFA! wrote: »

We have a Champions League level forward line imo and without doubt a Champions League level goalkeeper.

Keane and Doyle are better than Dzeko and Ibisevic. The difference is Bosnias manager structures the team to get the best out of his attackers. Trap seems hell bent on living up to the stereotype that Irish couldn't possibly attempt to play football so better off booting it long and hoping for the best.

We need Fahey or Andy Reid to get the best out of these two phenominal players. I really want to see Fahey for us, I've been calling for his inclusion for 18 months now and felt without question he should have been called up for the Poland game while still at Pat's.

Think you're getting a bit over-excited about Doyle there! Vital for us maybe, but hardly 'Champions League' material, IMO anyway.


Have heard good things about Fahey alright - I hope Brady is keeping Trap informed about these young fellas, 'cos I have a feeling Trap has a rigid idea of what his squad is and is pretty unwilling to look at bringing in too many new faces, or even to go out and watch them playing. That McCann lad at Burnley is meant to be decent aswell, and TBH, I'd rather see Carsley or Delap playing ahead of out current central pairing

Jayob10

A_Fitz wrote: »

Think you're getting a bit over-excited about Doyle there! Vital for us maybe, but hardly 'Champions League' material, IMO anyway.


Have heard good things about Fahey alright - I hope Brady is keeping Trap informed about these young fellas, 'cos I have a feeling Trap has a rigid idea of what his squad is and is pretty unwilling to look at bringing in too many new faces, or even to go out and watch them playing. That McCann lad at Burnley is meant to be decent aswell, and TBH, I'd rather see Carsley or Delap playing ahead of out current central pairing

I even think Delap would do a good job for us at right full. Allowing us to move John O'Shea over to left full until Steve Finnan returns.

ANTIFA!

A_Fitz wrote: »

Think you're getting a bit over-excited about Doyle there! Vital for us maybe, but hardly 'Champions League' material, IMO anyway.


Have heard good things about Fahey alright - I hope Brady is keeping Trap informed about these young fellas, 'cos I have a feeling Trap has a rigid idea of what his squad is and is pretty unwilling to look at bringing in too many new faces, or even to go out and watch them playing. That McCann lad at Burnley is meant to be decent aswell, and TBH, I'd rather see Carsley or Delap playing ahead of out current central pairing

Well maby but I really can't say how highly I rate Doyler. Even Paul Merson said the other week how he knew 'doyle was good but didn't think he was this good'

Stevecw

Group 1 - Could be any of Denmark, Portugal, Sweden and Hungary. Going on the fixtures remaining, it'll probably be Portugal
Group 2 - More than likely Greece
Group 3 - Either Slovenia or Czech Rep, N. Ireland are a huge outside bet now,
Group 4 - The losers of Russia/Germany next month. Russia are at home, but if it's a draw, Germany top the group.
Group 5 - Should be Bosnia
Group 6 - Croatia are favourites, but if Ukraine get a result against an already qualified England side they'll be in the driving seat.
Group 7 - More than likely France.
Group 8 - Us
Group 8 - Nobody. Norway's 10 points should make them the worst 2nd place team, even after the 6th place deductions take place.

Yeah, tough looking games there. Bosnia, Greece, Hungary or Slovenia is the dream scenario. Any of France, Portugal, Germany or Russia the worst obviously.

Hmm decent effort at predicting 2nd. You seem to have all 2nds right except i reckon Sweden will beat Ronaldo & his team to 2nd that group.
And Slovenia will be 2nd in gp 3.

Ones to avoid are obv Ger/Rus from group 4, France, Greece & whoever gets outta that really good gp 1. either Sweden or Portugal!!

Victor McDade

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/secondplace.html

The play-offs will be played over two legs on 14 and 18 November 2009. The draw for these matches will be conducted on Monday 19 October 2009 in the Home of FIFA in Zurich.

Not too long to wait after the last games are finished. No mention if it'll be seeded (but no mention that it won't be)

A_Fitz

Jayob10 wrote: »

I even think Delap would do a good job for us at right full. Allowing us to move John O'Shea over to left full until Steve Finnan returns.

Dunno about Delap at right back - haven't ever seen him play there, so can't say myself. However, I agree about JOS at Left, and Finnan at right - Kilbane doesn't have the pace or skill required for the WC, and we have nobody else, bar JOS, who's good enough to play there, and we know we could trust Finnan at right back

Even Paul Merson said the other week how he knew 'doyle was good but didn't think he was this good'

LOL, is Merson back on the cha, he is??? Doyle's a good player, and probably one of our better ones, yes, but he's no world beater......not by a long shot. TBH, I kind of think that a Keane/Folan(or preferably Morisson) combination would be more fruitful, in certain ways at least, or against certain teams, than a Keane/Doyle partnership

Xavi6

That's the kind of thread title that comes back to bite you in the ass.

Boggles

Was hoping the Bulgarians would get a result against the Italians last night, I think Trap is more than capable of beating Italy in Dublin, and I still think we will.

Winning the group was our best chance of qualification, god knows what hurt team we will get in the play offs if we qualify for them.

Kiith

What the hell are Fifa playing at, not having made a decision about whether or not the draw will be seeded? Surely thats the sort of thing that gets decided before the tournament begins?

Mr Moon

Are the playoffs only between European teams?

One year we played Iran to qualify!!

If it is Europe, it should be 1st v 8th 2nd v 7th etc.. they can't seed the draw, the groups have already been seeded!

death1234567

Xavi6 wrote: »

That's the kind of thread title that comes back to bite you in the ass.

I don't think it will this time though. Safe enough to say we'll finish second in the group and less safe to say we'll be beaten in the playoffs IMO.

pickarooney

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Keane and Doyle are better than Dzeko and Ibisevic.
.

In which version of Championship Manager??

Dzeko scored 26 league goals last year in the Bundesliga, Keane struggled to make double figures in the Premiership. Ibisevic scoed 18 in half a season before getting injured while Doyle took the full year to do the same in the Championship.

noodler

sugarman wrote: »

Agggh, just seen the results of all the games today. This is all poxy Kilbanes fault and dont anyone dare to disagree, we SHOULD BE level with Italy at this stage taking all 6 points from the both Bulgaria games or at the least 4 points making the game next month the decider. He's well passed it and should not be within 10 miles radius of the Irish squad. I almost sound like Roy Curtis but FFS!:mad:

We should make the playoff's but chances are we're gonna get a horrible draw and feck it up as always.

In fairness Bulgaria were all over us in both games, especially in Dublin. A point each was more than fair.

Are the Play-Offs ever seeded? Seems grossly unfair and kind of pointless with only 8 teams.

Boskowski

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Keane and Doyle are better than Dzeko and Ibisevic.

That's a statement I'd be careful with. Ibisevic has not returned to form yet after his long term injury, but has been the new Wunderkind before that, 18 goals and 7 assists in the first half of last season (and in Germany they don't count cup goals either, thats entirely league scoring). Dzeko has scored over 50 goals together with Grafite last season which evidently won Wolfsburg the league. He had a serious bid from AC Milan on him which was turned down by Wolfsburg saying that they don't need the money but the players now that they're in the champions league

While our forwards are probably a strong part of the team these two guys could give our back 4 a bit of a headache.

Overall I don't believe the playoffs are seeded. It's just a matter of luck now. But while there are certainly weaker opponents as well as nightmare scenarios, no team that made it into the playoffs is going to be a pushover.

briany

I don't mean to be pessimistic but y'know Ireland have never won a playoff against European opposition, or at least not as long as I've been alive anyway. We really ought to be playing Bahrain.

The Rooster

Playoffs have definitely been seeded in the past, but not all the time. I wonder if FIFA and UEFA have different practices in that regard.

If they did seed it and if they used the world rankings, then the following would be the seeds (as things stand):

Russia-6, Croatia-9, France-10, Greece-12.

Non seeds would be:
Ireland-38, Sweden-41, Bosnia-46, Slovenia-54

We'd need Latvia to get 2nd in the Greece/Swiss group to get us into the seedings. Alternatively they could use the "best 2nd place team" format to decide seedings.

ArmaniJeanss

noodler wrote: »

In fairness Bulgaria were all over us in both games, especially in Dublin. A point each was more than fair.

Are the Play-Offs ever seeded? Seems grossly unfair and kind of pointless with only 8 teams.

It was a seeded draw for the UEFA playoffs for the last world cup.
Whilst I can accept that it may be unfair, I don't know what you mean by 'pointless'... the point of it is fairly obvious really!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Play-offs

(wont link directly, you have to click into 'Main article 2006 FIFA World Cup qualification (UEFA play-off)' on above page).


The six remaining second-place teams were divided into two pots based on their standings in the September 2005 FIFA World Rankings. The division was:
Pot A. CzechR, Spain, Turkey.
Pot B. Norway, Slovakia, Switzerland.

LuckyLloyd

Realistically, we will be dogs over two legs to any of the teams currently likely to make it into the playoffs. You can look at the likes of Greece and Bosnia and say 'we could take them' but their players play in top European leagues and their home venues are extremely intimidating places to play.

As a third seed going into the competition, just getting to the playoffs is a performance ahead of expectation for us. Our record in previous playoffs is a function of how we have shaped up internationally post 1994. Ultimately, we have never been that good as a collection of players 1 - 20 (Keane carried us to Korea). The other times we have scraped into the playoffs we have gone into those games as underdogs:

- Belgium were a better team (Luc Nillis / Oliveria);
- Turkey (Hakan Suker / Alpay / Emre);
- Netherlands were packed with some of the best players in Europe at the time (Kluivert / De Boer brothers / Overmars / Seedorf / Davids / Berkamp);

And come out losers. Ho, hum.

Whoever we play, it is absolutely crucial that we get to play the second leg at home. In all out playoffs to date, we have been away from home during the deciding 90 minutes. Given the way we currently play, it is within the realms of possibility for Trapp to get a result anywhere (even in Moscow, Paris, Berlin, Lisbon) that keeps the tie alive for a second leg in Dublin. And as we saw in Bari, he will gamble when he feels he has no other option.

Could we progress in a packed Croke park for a second leg where Ireland need just the one goal and Trapp is going for it? Stranger things have happened in football.

The Rooster

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It was a seeded draw for the UEFA playoffs for the last world cup.

On that basis its highly likely it'll be seeded again based on world rankings.
The good thing is that, assuming they follow the same procedure, a draw will also take palce regarding who's home/away in each leg, i.e. the top seed doesnt automatically get home advantage in Leg2.

aidan24326

A_Fitz wrote: »

No one could say we'd be easy to beat though - I think most managers would rather avoid us

I'd agree with that. As much as this Ireland team might be no world-beaters we're still hard to beat, and I don't think many teams would relish playing us. I think we have a decent chance in the playoffs. Germany would be a nightmare draw but I'd say they're a safe enough bet to win that group, they'll get the result they need in Moscow. Other than that I wouldn't be too fearful, the likes of France and Portugal may have better players and bigger reputations but they're not playing well at all right now, and if we could get the first leg away, nick a draw or even a narrow defeat and we'd have every chance imo.