La Marmotte 2010

Caroline_ie

.. this getting close I am getting excited yet ... terrified.

mfdc

I've completely blocked it out of my head... just thinking about the WW200 for the last couple of months Gonna wake up next monday and then have it slowly dawn on me, oh **** what have I got myself into.

Caroline_ie

mfdc wrote: »

I've completely blocked it out of my head... just thinking about the WW200 for the last couple of months Gonna wake up next monday and then have it slowly dawn on me, oh **** what have I got myself into.

I've decided to keep my entry and do the WW 200 after all - going to try to do it as fast I can ( meaning slow for most ) - I better think of this 1st then...

mfdc

Alright now that there's nowhere left to hide (and we're flying out next weekend oh god) guess there's no choice but to face up to it... For so long it's been "ah yeah that's a few months away don't need to worry about it", and now it's finally almost here! Found a decent looking gps track here if anyone wants it. I didn't know there was a 20km false flat before the Telegraph until now, as if the climbs weren't enough

A question for the folks who've done it before... how hot is it likely to be on the day? I remember from last years thread that the Glandon food stop was jam packed, so would it be feasible to skip it and try and keep going to the Valloire stop or would that just be inviting dehydration-related trouble on the Telegraph? Also how cruel is it to put a stop right at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez??? Think there's about a 0 percent chance of me getting back on the bike if I get off there.

niceonetom

Ah, so the fear has arrived then.

Good to know I'm not alone in that...

To all the veteran marmoteers, I have a question:

What is the one thing you wish you had known when you did your first marmotte? Your one top-tip?

LeoD

Hopefully the weather improves but the forecast for the top of the Galibier tomorrow is -6 and snow.

niceonetom

Eep.

I was up the Galibier a couple of years ago in early October and it was frighteningly cold. Terrifying, panic-inducing cold on the descents. I was hoping it would be rather better in July. Maybe that was foolish. I really want to have to carry as little extra clothing as possible.

What do most people bring? A gillet? Jacket? Would full finger gloves be a good idea?

ROK ON

niceonetom wrote: »

Eep.

I was up the Galibier a couple of years ago in early October and it was frighteningly cold. Terrifying, panic-inducing cold on the descents. I was hoping it would be rather better in July. Maybe that was foolish. I really want to have to carry as little extra clothing as possible.

What do most people bring? A gillet? Jacket? Would full finger gloves be a good idea?

I was up in pyrenees in sub 0 degrees. Climbing fine as I never overheated. Descent were hell.
Wore thermals, ls jersey, assos winter jackets. Newspaper. Wi ter tights gloves, Marino beanie, marino socks and neoprene o ershoes.
I was still beyond cold.

Day 2 went up Hautacam with SS. On descent wore beanie buff long gloves and gilet armwarmers and knee warmers.
Just at the edge of being bearable. But it wasn't sub zero.
Best of luck in deciding.

Leroy42

My top tip, (not saying thats it worth anything!) is to know your limits and pace yourself. Have a clear idea where you want to be and when and stick to that plan. If you feel you're on a great day, save that up for Alpe D'Huez. If you're heading over with a group, unless you are exactly matched, say goodbye at the start and let each do their own thing.

The adrenaline rush at the start, being surrounded by all those other cyclists together with the speed for the 1st 12kms until the first climb can lead you into going to fast too soon. It's not like the W200, more like the start of a race.

Even for the best, this is a serious ordeal. It's is akin to a marathon. The Telegragh is a lovely climb, great rhytmn. But it is too easy to overcook it and there is no hiding place on the Galibier.

My second tip (am I allowed a 2nd one) is don't fear this. It is doable. Yes it is hard, probably the hardest day you'll ever face on a bike, but if you've done the W200/MB200 etc you can do this. You might not get gold or even silver, but you will do it. Focus on the training you've done, forget the training you haven't done. Eat and drink loads, then eat and drink some more. Find a rhytmn on each climb and stick to it, forget what is happening around you.

Ryaner

No fear for me after the W200. I now know I'm strong enough to complete something small like a marmotte

And -6 sounds MUCH nicer to me that 35C and no wind, but then that is just me. All the reports of Heuz being an oven were worrying.

niceonetom

Thanks Leroy - I think I've got the legs to get around now having done the W200 and MB200 and a whole load of other hilly days. The danger is, as you say, wasting the legs early in the day. My number is 17 so I'll be going off in the first group with the people who posted the fastest times last year, it'll be imperative not to try to stay with them a minute longer than I should. A tow to the base of the Glandon would be nice, but we'll see what happens.

Have you any tips on what to bring for the day? Clothing-wise? I'm slightly concerned about the drastic differences in temperature we might encounter.

Ryaner wrote: »

And -6 sounds MUCH nicer to me that 35C and no wind, but then that is just me. All the reports of Heuz being an oven were worrying.

I'd happily climb at -6, the problem is getting back down.

The descents are LONG and I'm still scarred by the experience of coming down the Galibier at temperatures above freezing. I'm struggling to explain it... Imagine yourself standing naked on the platform of a an oil rig in the arctic during a hail storm for about an hour. It was cold enough that any exposed skin would instantly go bright red and start to scream with stinging pain. Eyes streaming. Coordination deteriorating. We were dressed like polar explorers and were still in serious danger of being unable to squeeze the levers coming into the corners. If we'd been up there with less clothes we would be in serious trouble.

mfdc

niceonetom wrote: »

I'd happily climb at -6, the problem is getting back down.

I can definitely see how this is a problem - we did a climb in Spain where the weather turned on us near the top. Nothing too bad, the temp can't have gone below 5 or 6, but coming down my hands hurt so bad I was seriously concerned that I would go to pull the brakes on a corner and have nothing happen.

Hell commuting I get pains in my fingers even with two pairs of gloves on once the temps go below 0. I knew Galibier would be cold but not that cold... trying to balance between mid twenties in the vallies and temps that low is going to be awful.

honkjelly

niceonetom wrote: »

What is the one thing you wish you had known when you did your first marmotte? Your one top-tip?

Leroy42 is spot on regarding the start. Reign it in on the Glandon and to a lesser extent on the telegraph. And watch out for the hammerfest on the flat bit between the glandon and telegraph. I had my max hr at this bit both times. Find a big dutch guy/gal and sit in behind them.

The feed stop in valloire can be a bit confusing. Is actually not in the town but a few k up the road. Is probably on part of the galibier climb. Got caught out the first year with this.

AND best of luck to everyone doing it!!!

elisesprocket

Did this event twice in the last 3 years, it's great day out .. when you reach the top of the L'alpe it's a euphoric feeling..

1. Get early to the start line, it's a cattle mart- You will never see anything like the number of cyclists coralled into pens.:D
2. Descending the L'alpe in the morning can be crazy, lot's of nervous folks, seen 2 crashes before the start. Also can be nippy early in the morning, good idea to have someone collect knee/leg warmers at the bottom of L'alpe.
3. Pace yourself up the glandon & on the flat section to the Glandon. It's crazy fast start don't redline.
4. Feed station on the glandon is chaotic, to save time keep going and grab some food / water lower down the valley.
5. Caution first decent is nuts :eek:, the first few miles are seriously dangerous and always the scene of crashes. It opens out further down the mountain and you have good visibility. At the lower slopes of the mountain the road closes in and your surrounded by high walls / trees.. there's some nasty turns on this section.. take it handy.
6. Village at bottom of glandon has nasty speed bumps - caution :eek:
7. Telegraph is where you start hitting really warm temps, it can hit 30deg c+ keep drinking and bring some sodium tablets, first part of telegraphy is worst eases up further along the climb. The first water stops u encounter are for tour companies keep going to the top of the climb. If busy drop into valloire and hit shop / water fountain in centre of town.
8. As pointed out earlier main food stop is outside valloire.
9. Galiber - savage hard near top, pace yourself.. Food stop at top is crazy.. Great descent to compensate.
10. Close to Bourg d' Oisans there's nasty drag catches people by surprise after km's of downhill. Also watch out for the tunnels, slide your sunglasses down your nose to compensate before entering the tunnels, caution- few nasty manhole covers inside tunnels :eek:
L'alpe almost home tempo it out , water stop half way up L'alpe. Can be extremly hot on the ascent due to sun reflecting off rocks..

Enjoy and have a beer when finished , great day out :D

Mosiki

I'm 6121 so will be in the final wave, aim to sit out the back at start so I'll have a bit more space descending.

Just how cold is it at the top of the climbs? Are we talking summer gear at bottom and winter gear at top?

elisesprocket

Mosiki wrote: »

I'm 6121 so will be in the final wave, aim to sit out the back at start so I'll have a bit more space descending.

Just how cold is it at the top of the climbs? Are we talking summer gear at bottom and winter gear at top?

Depends on the forecast but generally the weather is warm I used arm warmers at the start + Gillet and had all in the pockets by first climb, never put on for whole event. Generally weather is hot for this event at least 2 out of 3 years, hope your lucky with weather:)

Caroline_ie

can't wait for my holiday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...and the descents!

Lumen

Quick holiday post....

I've done a fair bit of hot, hilly cycling the last week (about 360km and 6000m climbing in 30-40 degree heat), and I have to say you're all nuts.

I absolutely cannot imagine doing 5000m of climbing over 170km or whatever in the heat in one day. It's completely insane.

The one thing I've learned is: at water stops, pour the same amount of water over your clothing as you pour into your bottles. Wet bibs are a fantastic cooling system.

Good luck!

E@gle.

Lumen wrote: »

Q
The one thing I've learned is: at water stops, pour the same amount of water over your clothing as you pour into your bottles. Wet bibs are a fantastic cooling system.

Good luck!

Wouldn't recommend that during the marmote as one of the decents is over 30km and its cold at the top of the galiber

Ryaner

So how is everyone fairing up for this? Very little training that can be done now at this stage.

blorg

I skipped the Glandon stop last year, it was very busy. There is a water fountain in the village halfway down. Apart from that I stopped in boulangeries to avoid queuing; first official stop I used was top of the Galibier.

It was warm last year; I descended in short sleeves. You don't want to be carrying too much stuff up those climbs. On the other hand I have had the freezing descent experience in both Alps and Pyrenees and it wasn't pleasant. I'll look at the forecast on the day I think.

IM0

ballyharpat wrote: »

Hey UCD, would you consider yourself a good climber? Just trying to get a feel for these climbs, I put out about 4w/kg over 1/2 an hour, could probably hold that for an hour on a climb, when I am in shape.

Yes I would consider myself a good climber for sure. In a mtn TT of 1hr~ Id put out about 4.2w/Kg. during the marmotte for the early climbs I be at around 3.3w/Kg and by alpe dhuez down to around 3w/Kg. from 2000m on the Galibier [it goes to 2600m] I would be hangin, and then totally spent by the top. but would 'recover' by time got to the start of alpe d'huez about an hour later, and limp up in about 1hr 10/15min.

IM0

Its REALLY tricky to get the clothing right, and be just right without being over or under dressed, but like anything it comes with experience and time, this is also why doing the climbs as training is time well spent, and remember that for every 100m you ascend the temp goes down by 1c. So if its 30 in the Valleys around bourg [700m] its around 10 degrees on the top of galibier, on a cracking day :pac: The first year I did it it was a cold and cloudy year of the marmotte. and I started in leg warmers, light'ish overshoes, and a summer weight LS jersey [with SS or 2 underneath]. I kept them on and was tapping out a fast tempo all the way to the bottom of alpe dhuez [and was very glad I did untill the last 3rd of the Lauteret/Galibier descent], the sun came out and I decided VERY WISELY to take 3 min pop into the camp ground, and get into SS jersey and shorts, that is how varied the weather can be. The last year I did it, I was in shorts and BL and SS with lite Gilet for start line waiting [it gets fookin cold there at 7am, about 5c [which is about 0 when you're use to 30c temps for weeks ] but the forecast was for blue skies and warm 26 in valleys so was much easier to make a call with my previous experience of how mountain weather works in the alps.

100Suns

Zipp 404 (clinchers) or Campag Neutron Ultras?? It's all about going up so I'm very much leaning toward the Campags. Has anyone done it on aeros and what was the verdict?

AstraMonti

Common sense says no aeros for climbing.. I would personally go for the Campa.. but I am sure the most experienced people will jump up and give you a proper answer

niceonetom

Ryaner made an argument for his carbones being the right choice... he insisted that aero was still a concern at 12kph (or something - I can't really remember) but I'm unconvinced. I'd like to hear the case made again though...

I'd go for the lighter wheels everytime. Light wheels for climbing is a no-brainer. You see pros climbing on 303s and 404s but those are tubs and they're being pushed along fast enough at twice the speed we'll be climbing at. On the descents the limiting factor is not the aeroness of your wheels but the aeroness of your tuck and your skill on the brakes and through the bends. I'm certainly not planning on hammering it on the few flat bit so again wouldn't justify the extra grams for a lower drag...

Leroy42

Don't have either of those wheels, but my twopence worth is that aero is not as important as stability.

Ride whichever you are more comfortable on, in the sense that those wheels which give you the most confidence.

Some parts of the descents are steep, but in reality you will find it hard to reach the speeds that your probably reach over here due to the constant switchbacks, not knowing the roads and of course having so many others around you. The difference is of course the sheer lenght of the descents. 20k's of constant descending!

I personally, and from looking at the pro peleton they seem to agree, would not choose carbon rims bt deep section rims shouldn't cause a problem. I rode mid section rims the last time with no problems (non-carbon).

On other tip, try to make sure you have a full zip top. If the weather is warm (more likely than not) then it is essential. Not as widely available as the short zip (as we do not them over here). Also makes you feel like a real climber!!!(Pathetic I know but you ned every bit of inspiration when you're struggling along at 4mph on Alpe D'Huez.:eek:

IM0

baselayer trumps full-zip jersey it seems though lots of pros still dont realise this

ballyharpat

100Suns wrote: »

Zipp 404 (clinchers) or Campag Neutron Ultras?? It's all about going up so I'm very much leaning toward the Campags. Has anyone done it on aeros and what was the verdict?

Since both wheelsets are pretty much the same weight, I would go with the shallow rims. The reasoning being if there are crosswinds, the 404's can get hard to handle and may consume a lot of energy keeping them from swaying you on the downhill.

If you are a heavy rider, I would go with the Zipps for sheer Bling

blorg

I would go with the lightest wheels possible; I honesty can't imagine deep section giving you an advantge on that course and my own deep section clinchers (Cosmics) are around 400g or so heavier than my lightest clinchers (R SYS) and this is felt on the climbs. I have Zipps that are lighter but again they are tubs so very much out.

Ryaner

I'll be there with my Cosmic Carbones. I don't have another choice of wheel for the bike I'm bringing however I do all my training on my Carbones and wouldn't trade them even if I could.
I did take them to Spain and did some very fast descending with cross winds. Once you get used to the wheels, it really doesn't feel any different. And given my style of climbing (I'm not one for long periods of seatedness), the more stable/stiffer wheels suit me.

IM0

Ryaner wrote: »

I take them to Spain and did some very fast descending with cross winds. Once you get used to the wheels, it really doesn't feel any different.

and thats the key point OP, its usually not a good idea to make drastic equipment changes before a big event, Ryaner is use to using them and has even tried them on fast descents with crosswinds and he feels comfortable doing that, the wheels you are the most comfortable on you will go faster on, and they are the ones to take

Edit: just saw ryaner is the OP aswell :pac:

Ryaner

me@ucd wrote: »

Edit: just saw ryaner is the OP aswell :pac:

I started the original thread, 100Suns was asking about the wheels

Leroy42

Top Tips

Eating and drinking is for wimps. Bowl of cornflakes for breakfast, grab a cup of tea and a pan au chocolate on the way out the door and your all set.

No point carrying the extra weight of water and gels around with you, just suck on your own jersey and eat some flies and you'll be all set.

Stick it in your 50x12 and never change up, having all those extra gears to fall back on gives you a great motivational lift and imagine the amazement of the others as you cruise past them on their weeny 34x27.

Never tuck into a group, this is your challenge and you're cheating if you accept a drag from someone else.

Hammer from the start of every hill, this is where you will break others spirit and get the highest recognition value. No point burning people off later on in the climb when most people have drifted back already.

Find your redline and then p1ss all over it. It's just a mental thing. If your feel your legs hurting it means your not pushing your lungs hard enough and vice versa. If both are hurting then your not concentrating on the climbing. Just stop wallowing in self pity and put the hammer down.

Time can be made up on the descents, throw caution to the wind, ignore all other cyclists and oncoming traffic and take whatever line YOU want. Ignore marshalls advice, they are just trying to slow you down in some pathetic attempt to give some advantage to the home based cyclists over the invading foreigners.

Forget to pack most things, but especially anything actually required for the day itself. Nothing big like the bike or wheels as that is too obvious, but rather something like skewers, helmet, shorts or pedals. The laugh you will have!

Please note the above advice may not be 100% correct and individual responsibility must be taken for all decisions. The author is not a member of any recognised authority. Prices can fall as well as rise, past peformance is not an indicator of future returns.

TinyExplosions

Leroy42 wrote: »

Forget to pack most things, but especially anything actually required for the day itself. Nothing big like the bike or wheels as that is too obvious, but rather something like skewers, helmet, shorts or pedals. The laugh you will have!

Ah, the memories of emty trying to locate a skewer in Bourg D'Oisans in October, when most of the town was shut...

100Suns

Best of luck to ewveryone doing it-hope to see you all roll across the finsish line (on two wheels). Presumably most will be wearing Boards/Irish Club jerseys which will be recognisable??

And don't forget Leroy42's Top Top Tip which he was keeping to himself; it's never too late to start training-get there a few days early and push yourself to do hill repeats (no more than 7 in any one session) on Galibier and Alp d'huez, particularly on the evening of the race-it'll stand you in good stead.

Mosiki

Pity the boards jersey werent ready in time for it.

niceonetom

Anyone else a bit nervous? And really excited?

We're flying out tomorrow to do the Vaujany on Sunday. Really wish I'd watched the diet a bit better...

mfdc

niceonetom wrote: »

Anyone else a bit nervous? And really excited?

We're flying out tomorrow to do the Vaujany on Sunday. Really wish I'd watched the diet a bit better...

As it's getting closer I'm actually getting less worried... kind of like that effect where people living closest to a dam are least worried about it bursting I guess. It can't be that bad, I mean even if we end up crawling up Alpe d'Huez at 5kph at least the views will be nice eh It was a bit worrying watching the Dauphine go up Glandon the way we're going down though. Narrow road, surface looks a bit sketchy, hairpins aplenty and not a barrier to be seen, will be taking that one nice and handy so.

I share your misgivings about the ol' diet. Have known this was coming for 8+ months now and was planning on losing a load of weight in advance. Was down 3kg by March but the discipline disappeared as the training got harder, back to the same weight again now.

DirkVoodoo

niceonetom wrote: »

Vaujany on Sunday. Really wish I'd watched the diet a bit better...

I don't think you have much to be nervous about, you are probably in near top condition right now (sorry champ, this is probably as good as it gets ).

Good luck to all the marmotteers. I think, because there was none post W200, that we will have to go for beers on your triumphant return. Hopefully we will still have some good weather and you will have plenty of stories to share.

Ryaner

niceonetom wrote: »

Anyone else a bit nervous? And really excited?

More worried about the bus to the airport than the event itself although I may have lost some perspective

What is everyone doing for the week before the event? I know we have planned to do the course on the Monday/Tuesday - half each day, but beyond that it could be relaxing week.

niceonetom

Just put the 28t cassette on my bike - christ it's ugly.

Ryaner wrote: »

More worried about the bus to the airport than the event itself although I may have lost some perspective

What is everyone doing for the week before the event? I know we have planned to do the course on the Monday/Tuesday - half each day, but beyond that it could be relaxing week.

You should do the Prix des Rousses on Wednesday (if you can sign up for it on the day - I have no idea), it's only 40km, but 1600m of climbing it looks like a bloody tough 40km.

fondriest

Glad to see everyone here is well prepared and ready to go,i am aiming for the don't bother training too hard and just turn up and see how i get on approach. Have done some racing but i think my longest spin for the year was 120k so i will report with a postmortem after the event to let you know how the minimilist approach works. (Not too well i would say.)

Caroline_ie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Good luck to all the marmotteers. I think, because there was none post W200, that we will have to go for beers on your triumphant return. .

You really think we are going to wait for you for beer?
I am a bit nervous about the whole thing ... and I am not even doing the full Marmotte ...

rughdh

Best of luck to all taking part!

dancesOnPedals

rughdh wrote: »

Best of luck to all taking part!

+1

Leroy42

Yes, best of luck, it does seem like quite a number of 'Irish' are heading over.

Focus on the things you can control, your tempo, your line, your food & drink, and try not to worry about those things you can't, the weather, your starting position etc.

You've done the best training you can, you are as well prepared as you can be.

At the end of the day, we are all going over to push ourselves on the hardest course. I won't bother saying enjoy yourself, if you do you're doing it wrong! But do try to take a few minutes to take in the scenery, the sheer scale of the event, the history and legend of the climbs you are riding.

Cycling is one of the few sports where is mere mortals can use the same path as the stars (albiet almost in a different time zone).

100Suns

Quote: Anyone else a bit nervous? And really excited?

I had a sense of trepidation about the high mountains and the length of the climbs so I prempted one of Leroy42's top tips, took a leaf out of blorg's 398 volume encyclopedia, and signed up for the Race Around Ireland (as a relay). Now La Marmotte appears on the schedule as a training spin.:D

There's a group of us Irish staying on the Alpe-if anyone knows a bar/cafe up there where they might gather that evening to relive the horror/glory they might post the name here.

Good luck again.

Cathald04

Just a heads up for everyone that is planning on going. The easiest option for going to that area is getting flights from Dublin to Grenoble leaving bourg d' oisans only about an hour away. If any of ye are planning on spending time over there Briancon is a great base camp , leaving numerous climbs within walking distance the galibier, the granon, the izoard, the col du lautaret and montgenevre. Also bike hire is also possible and for a day (i think) you can rent a Orbea orca with sram red for like 15€.......................... You couldnt go wrong.... Good luck to all taking part

E@gle.

100Suns wrote: »

There's a group of us Irish staying on the Alpe-if anyone knows a bar/cafe up there where they might gather that evening to relive the horror/glory they might post the name here.

Good luck again.

Theree is a good restaurant called "le Pomme du pin" i ate there every night, and they do a special cyclist menu for about €15 i think