La Marmotte 2010

Ryaner

The master results list has gone up.
http://www.sportcommunication.info/web2010/pdf/MASTER.pdf

Fastest Irish person, 6:56. Pretty impressive.

Looking back, I am convinced that the heat was more of a problem than the hills. Calorie wise, I burnt 5899 during the Marmotte. I burnt 5180 during the Wicklow 200. Both are from a PowerTap so will be accurate enough.
Don't get me wrong, not saying it wasn't hard. Just remove the heat and, at least for me, it wouldn't have been an overly hard day.

blorg

I'd disagree, it is not even comparable to the Wicklow 200 in terms of difficulty. Not in the same class at all. I am very well adapted to the heat myself and have cycled in higher temperatures in the 40s. I've also cycled in the Alps and Pyrenees in cold temperatures and it is still tough! The heat does make it tougher but the hills and the length of them are the main problem, IMO.

Once you cycle in the Alps you will never find a cycle in Wicklow difficult again unless you are doing a race. Certainly the Wicklow 200 was very easy for me coming back from cycling in the Alps/Pyrenees.

Ryaner

Perhaps I misspoke somewhat. I'm not saying the Marmotte wasn't hard, or that someone who completed the W200 could complete it. They are on different scales. However the heat plays a huge part. In my case it wasn't my legs that were giving out or stopping me pushing harder, it was not knowing when the next water stop would be or if I'd over heat. I did go through about 10 750ml bottles of water/nuun + a few more thrown over my head during the day.

Best way I can put it is that the suffering is different. Last year I did the W200 in 9:30 ride time. Some of it spent struggling to turn the cranks. I never hit that point in the Marmotte and even the last 2km where I was sprinting all out, I never really started to get the burn in my legs. I know from looking at the graphs that given a cooler day, say 20-25C, I'd have taken 20-30minutes from the time I got.

On a side note, your name wasn't on the timesheet for the Grimpe up on the Alpe?

blorg

I imagine your increased level of fitness would have played a big part in that difference though. I took 1h21m off my Marmotte time last year while finding it substantially easier. The only bit I found myself under pressure this year was going up the Alpe- although the heat certainly was a factor. Similarly, I did the W200 in 2007, 2008 and 2009 and went faster each year while finding it easier.

I didn't do the Grimpe. I have a rule that I only cycle as long as I am enjoying it, and I had a feeling that I would not enjoy that this morning Also I had my hour up the Alpe from Wednesday and I was guaranteed to be slower this morning! I would have been recovered enough for it if it were tomorrow. Tom did it and while it didn't look like fun that does mean he has completed the Grand Trophee.

@Lumen- regarding HR, I was far more comfortable going up the Alpe at 182 average at the start of the Prix des Rousses than going up it at 159 average at the end of the Marmotte. I also think it is easier to climb at a high HR, I wouldn't be conversing at that HR on the flat in a TT.

100Suns

Well done to everyone who took part and gave it a lash. A number in our group didn't complete it but did two or more of the big climbs. Chappeau to them too. Until you have witnessed the scale of the mountains, the climbs, the effort, the heat, the human endeavour and suffering, all on a truly mammoth scale, you cannot comprehend or appreciate the achievement of everyone who makes it over any or all of the climbs. (btw I passed a guy with one arm and one leg on the Glandon).

As a first timer, priority 1 was to finish. At the bottom of every climb I went straight to my new best friend 36/27 and spun it to the top. I kept the HR to under 90% until bend 6 on the Alpe and then charged for home. The carnage on the Alpe defies description-I was grinding at 9-12 kph to turn 6 and don't recall more than a maybe a dozen passing me. I passed more people walking than riding, those riding were miracuously staying upright, there were people crying beside their bikes, people collapsed with heat stoke or similar, bodies bent over and prostrate on the barriers. And that was at 430 in the afternoon! There were bodies still dragging bikes up at 10 pm.

The most striking feature for me was the silence. On the climbs there may be hundreds of cyclists within view but there is complete silence. Everyone suffering alone in a private place. It was truly stunning. Cursing however is a universal language understood by all in every language!

I waited 45 minutes on Telegraph for our support car-it went back to someone who cracked in the heat on the drag from Glandon. Without food, gels, electrolytes, gillet etc. I didn't fancy heading on in that heat with empty pockets. I feel obliged to deduct at least 30 mins which puts me on the cusp of gold/silver! Anyway, I'm not worried about that because it wasn't the objective. Participating is an achievement and finishing is a bonus. Again-well done to everyone.

Lumen

100Suns wrote: »

I passed a guy with one arm and one leg on the Glandon

Did he wave at you as you passed?

sy

Congrats to all in what must have a been an incredible experience and one which you will remember for many years.

I agree with Ryaner's comments on the heat issue. I have been on the Alpe when temp at bottom of climb was 38C and it is a killer (and that was not at the end of the Marmotte!). Sounds like there was carnage on that last climb

@blorg

What type of coolant do you run in your veins!?

blorg

sy wrote: »

@blorg

What type of coolant do you run in your veins!?

I have done a lot of cycling in Spain in high temperatures and my month running up the the Marmotte was somewhat unorthodox but involved a lot of 35-40+ Like anything you do get used to it.

100Suns

Lumen wrote: »

Did he wave at you as you passed?

I offered to shake his hand but he was too busy gesticulating at the legless passenger on the back of his tandem who has spitting fig stones at him in an effort to make him push harder.

Seriously though, I thought it was heroic until I realised he was only suffering half as much as the rest of us. A complete fraud unless he did it twice.

100Suns

Just wondering if I met any Boardies on the spin?

I met Paul from Dublin riding for Insihfree Cycling Club on the way up the Telegraph going really well. I met another Inishfree wheeler near the top of the Alpe.

I met a young rider at the start of the Galibier who had attempted it last year with two friends who all undertook to come back to give it another go and he was the only one who did. I really hope you made it.;)

FrankGrimes

Wow, just wow - those times are pretty spectacular folks, fair play to all. And how you did it with some serious climbs done in the days running up to it is beyond me.

Well done to each and every one that made it to the finish line, that heat sounds like it made an already epic challenge even more difficult.

Leroy42

The results are published in PDF, so a bit hard to get sorting done, but I gave it a shot. The follwoing is based on the 'Master' timings, which include the descent off the Glandon which wasn't included in the overall timings. It seems quite a lot of Irish went over, 59. Sorry if I missed anybody out.

Being politcally devious here, but taking out the Northern Ireland guys, as they really should be excluded, Darren Hackett was the fastest one home, time of 7:22:07.

mfdc

Official photos have finally gone up at photo breton, the day I get home aswell :rolleyes: Gonna have to order a couple in anyway... After experiencing the heat on the Alpe and reading everyone else's accounts, I reckon this:


photo sums the event up nicely for me. Yep that's a wall of snow at the side of the road near the summit of Galibier, only an hours riding from 39 degrees and near heatstroke on the Alpe.

blorg

I was changing my tunes, need something uptempo for that final bit

DualFrontDiscs

blorg wrote: »

"Pesky iPhone electric motor app"

blorg

I felt substantially worse than I look in this

LeoD

Well done to all that took part. Just home. Finished it in 9:49 which in hindsight is a bit disappointing as I rode very conservatively until the top of the Galibier. Found Alpe d'Huez hot and was beginning to tire but didn't really suffer that much - even had the presence of mind to zip up the jersey for the photographers on the 2nd last hairpin . That said, my left foot got very painful halfway up the Telegraphe and stayed that way until the end - felt as if it was being squeezed by a vice - so found trying to push a bit harder quite difficult.

Enjoying the Glandon:


Met 2 Irish lads at the Prix des Rouses who I'm thinking were Blorg and Niceonetom. Now that was a hoor of an event - especially the last unadvertised 2km.

edit: In Sunday's Dauphine newspaper there was a Boards jersey in one of the shots - Blorg perhaps?

Hermy

Ryaner wrote: »

The master results list has gone up.
http://www.sportcommunication.info/web2010/pdf/MASTER.pdf

Fastest Irish person, 6:56. Pretty impressive.

Thanks for the link Ryaner.
A taxi customer of mine did this event and it was nice to be able to see how he got on.
(3458 on G.C.)
Well done to all.:)

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

Blorg in proper shoe shocker!!!

Ryaner

Hermy wrote: »

Thanks for the link Ryaner.
A taxi customer of mine did this event and it was nice to be able to see how he got on.
(3458 on G.C.)
Well done to all.:)

The website now has the adjusted times when you search for yourself. I gain two places on my category GC, 51 in the overall. 36 minutes spent on the descent of the Glandon!
Nearly all the photos of me are out of the saddle too, even on the Alpe. Possibly I'm not the conservative climber I thought I was :rolleyes:

Leroy42

Thats a great time Ryaner. Just on the descent time, did you spend long at the water stop, 36 minutes is actually quite a long time for the descent otherewise

PS - Not any sort of criticism, just asking a question.

100Suns

Ryaner wrote: »

The website now has the adjusted times when you search for yourself. I gain two places on my category GC, 51 in the overall.


Thanks Ryaner-I gained 500 places and picked up 1hr 22. You'd think I crawled down on my hands and knees! I waited at the top for our group to come in and must have fallen asleep. I was quick off the mountain and I waited at the bottom as well then gave up on them and pressed on.

Lesson at this stage for all aspiring to do it. I sat in with a group moving at race pace to Telegraph. HR was 88-90% averaging maybe 43-45kph. I sat up and sat in with a group averaging 35 kph. I reckon I passed everyone in the 45 kph group on Telegraph all blowing hard-a group of Dulwich riders whose jerseys I also spotted on the Wicklow.

I then waited 45 mins on Telegraph for our support car. Making an 'appropriate' adjustment and allowing 30 mins for the Glandon descent I'm well inside gold time. Up until an hour ago I had ticked the Marmotte box and had no intention of going back. See ye on the start line in 2011. (I might have to borrow blorg's panniers or the wife's basket to dispense with the support car business).

I meant to say thanks in an earlier post to me@ucd and niceonetom in particular for the tips-it really helped. I suspect Leroy42 might have been attempting sarcasm with one or two of his top tips. niceonetom's tip about preparing yourself mentally to be grinding up hill for 2 hours is the key. You have to assume it will never end, then you will never be disappointed only pleasantly surprised-wear a peaked cycling cap, pull it down and don't look more than 20 m up the road until you're going down the road.:D

Roll up 2011.

Ryaner

I spent 5:30 at the Glandon food stop, mainly due to not understanding how the water worked. Another short stop during the descent where I learnt (the hard way) about the electric fences lining the road.
I didn't hit lap on my Garmin at that timing mat so I can't say exactly how long it took but average speed was over 40km/h. Works out around 29 minutes mat to mat from my rough maths.

Also when I said 51 in overall, I meant I gained 51 places in the overall GC, not came 51. My time was quite a bit over the sub 7 hours required for such a placing.

Ryaner

100Suns wrote: »

Up until an hour ago I had ticked the Marmotte box and had no intention of going back. See ye on the start line in 2011.

Grand Trophie next year I think.
Actually @blorg/tom, did you guys enjoy the Trophie. Would you recommend it?

100Suns wrote:

niceonetom's tip about preparing yourself mentally to be grinding up hill for 2 hours is the key. You have to assume it will never end, then you will never be disappointed only pleasantly surprised-wear a peaked cycling cap, pull it down and don't look more than 20 m up the road until you're going down the road.:D

The cheaper method - although not very effective when the shadows are going forward, not backwards :eek:

niceonetom

Ryaner wrote: »

Grand Trophie next year I think.
Actually @blorg/tom, did you guys enjoy the Trophie. Would you recommend it?

I definitely recommend it. I was only talked into it by blorg, but I'm glad he did, even if he wimped out at the last hurdle. If you're in good enough shape for the Marmotte (and you clearly are in very good shape) then it's a bit of a shame to only use that form on one event. There is enough time to recover between events, and there's lots of other stuff to do it the area to keep the holiday spirit alive. I recommend doing some canoeing in Bourg, c'est trés déstressant.

The Vaujany is a great test - less total elevation change than the Marmotte but just as hard in it's own way. The climb up to the Col de Sarenne (and the descent thereafter) are very tough. Basically the road is in ribbons, so we Irish have an advantage over the continentals who get very very nervous at the sight of gravel on a corner. The finishing climb up to the village of Vuajany is BRUTAL, only 6km but steep and with none of the respite that the hairpins of the alpe give you. This photo tells you all you need to know about it: sometimes 2km is 2kms too far, it can be that simple.

The Prix is the longest 40km you will do, but it's still short enough to go balls-to-the-wall on if you want to - My one regret from the event was that I was much too conservative on it. The Marmotte you know and the Grimpée, well, most of the challenge there lies in avoiding too many celebratory beers after the big M and then being able to motivate yourself to get up the next morning and face the Alpe again, if only just to pace it out and complete the series. That's all I did, though I think it made me the only Irish man to complete all four events. Relevant link.

Well done on your performance in the Marmotte btw, very impressive. You should really be racing with form like that.

100Suns

Ryaner wrote: »

Grand Trophie next year I think.

+1. Though I suspect Pantani's record of 37 mions is probably safe enough.

blorg

@100Suns- I carried everything I needed in my jersey pockets (7 bars for nutrition, tube, CO2) and only stopped for water but there are cafes on the route and I stopped to get a sandwich at one last year. What were you waiting for the support car for? I certainly wouldn't carry a weight on that ride; I saw someone with a large saddlebag going up the Telegraph and it didn't look fun. To get a good time on the Marmotte stopping has to be kept to a minimum but where you do stop make it count in terms of recovery. My plan this year was to do all my stopping at intermediate points on the climbs and this worked very well. Brief stops: 2 minutes for a pee and I feel massively recovered. 0 stops on the Glandon, 1 pee on the Telegraph, 2 pee/1 water on the Galibier and 1 pee/2 water/1 shade on the Alpe. Apart from that it was just a matter of filling water as quickly as possible. Trying to do all the climbs without putting a foot down while stopping at the tops and bottom is massively counterproductive IMO but you see lots of people doing it.

@Ryaner- I would certainly recommend the Grand Trophee. As Tom says I didn't do the Grimpe (I didn't reckon I would enjoy it and I only do things I enjoy) but the other events are very well run, challenging, and far enough away that there is plenty of recovery time. If the Grimpe was on the Monday rather than the Sunday I would have given it a go and hammered it but I didn't see the appeal of limping up the Alpe the next day for a time worse than I had done already. Having said that Tom did a very good time especially considering the day before. It did not sound like fun however!

I just did the Marmotte last year and there is a lot of hassle in the travelling for just the one day on the bike. The week was far more satisfying. The Prix des Rousses is a nice one as it is short enough as Tom says you can really push it up the climbs while on the Vaujanay and Marmotte you really have to pace yourself. I got the nutrition and probably the effort on the Vaujanay wrong and blew up 100km in; this was a help for the Marmotte where I think I got both nutrition and pacing spot on and took 1h17 out of last year's time while finding the ride substantially easier.

My only weak moment this year was the first two thirds of the Alpe and even there it probably wasn't as bad as last year; I was just about able to keep the pedals turning. I think if I had eaten/recovered properly on the descent I would have been OK on the Alpe also but I was in with a fast group. Difficult to tell if the time I made up by sticking with them was lost; we averaged 50km/h from the Galibier to Bourg and I don't know how much I could take off ~1h20 moving up the Alpe at the end of it. I was in a reasonably fast group on the flat intermediate bit but could still eat OK and the group was big enough that I avoided doing any work at all which was certainly my plan. Last year I put in too much at this point leading/moving up between groups and felt it on the Telegraph and Galibier; this year they were fine.

100Suns

Thanks blorg. The priority was to finish as a first timer. I went out with a group and rode (slowly) with them to the bottom of Glandon. At the top of Glandon I realised the level of the mixed ability in the group. We all set off together from there and I carried only enough to get me to the top of Telegraph having been assured the car would be there before me. I had nothing in my pockets when I got there (gels, electrolytes, gillet etc). The car went back for someone on the drag from Glandon and I waited 45 mins for it to turn up (having gone maybe 500 m back down in both directions looking for it.) At that stage I packed enough to get me home. Lessons learned! Next time I'll go with your strategy. You might post in due course your strategy for the Race Around Ireland (preferably before the event!).

Ryaner

@Tom, thanks. Hoping to start racing soon, maybe even tonight. Still haven't got the licence sorted with CI.

@Blorg, did you say you did the Alpe climb in the Marmotte in 1h20? Any idea how long you were stopped for during the event? Garmin tells me I was stopped for 24:05 which I still think is a bit much, could have been lower.
We were also over for a week and did all the route except the Glandon descent over 3 days. When I first signed up for the Marmotte, it was questionable if I'd even finish. Somehow doing a 9:30 ride time in last years W200 made me think doing the Marmotte was a great idea

blorg

My Garmin shows 7:48:49 moving, 22:39 stopped. I don't think 24:05 is unreasonable at all; I was stopped for over 45m last year and even then was trying to keep it to a minimum. I generally felt much better after each tiny stop and caught and passed the people I was with. Out of all the stops, maybe I could have shaved 5 minutes if I was absolutely meticulous. Not a lot.



Through the wonders of modern technology it also gives me pause durations on the map so I have for the Alpe 1:21:03 moving and paused for 5:30 during that ascent.

I stopped whenever I felt like it but tried not to stop for too long. In too much detail entirely:

00:15 Pee Glandon
00:38 Water Glandon Col
00:19 Ask for blister bandage Saint-Columban-des-Villards (no)
00:55 Pee bottom of Glandon 500m before timing mat
01:17 Water Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne before Telegraph
01:02 Pee Telegraph
00:44 Police traffic stop top of Telegraph :mad:
00:53 Water Telegraph Col
01:30 Wipe suncream out of eyes stop Galibier; as I am stopped anyway take opportunity to pee
01:13 Water Plan Lachat
01:20 Pee 2nd half Galibier
01:36 Try to scrape mud off my cleats 1km later which are not clipping in after standing in this at pee stop
02:47 Water Galibier Col
01:27 Pee Alpe between hairpins #1-2
00:40 Water La Garde
02:06 Shade and mental reconstitution between hairpins #9-10
01:17 Water Huez

This adds up to 20 minutes; the extra 2:30 I think is tunnels on the Galibier descent and a few seconds here and there where I went so slowly around a hairpin it put me down as stopped.

DirkVoodoo

Blorg = superhuman cyclist, tiny bladder.

AstraMonti

So you generally saying that you pissed all over the alps? :pac:

How would you compare it to the last climb we did it in Spain?

Well done guys and Caroline again!

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Blorg = superhuman cyclist, tiny bladder.

Hey, it is excess climbing weight! Store it up for the descent and then get it out near the start of the climb; I must have got near a kilo out at the bottom of the Alpe. It is certainly a day you don't want to end up dehydrated.

AstraMonti wrote: »

How would you compare it to the last climb we did it in Spain?

That climb we did in Spain at 810m would have been roughly equivalent to the Telegraph, which is the easiest of the four climbs in the day. Any one of the Glandon, Galibier and Alpe would be longer and tougher even in isolation. There isn't much respite either between the Telegraph and Galibier, just a five minute descent into Valloire. They are really one big climb ascending over 2,000m from the valley but thinking like that doesn't help you when you are at the bottom of it so it is broken into two. We also had the heat which we certainly didn't in Spain and of course doing so many climbs one after each other.

I don't think it affects me too badly any more but the alitude of the whole ride is also substantially higher- the Galibier tops out at 2,645m while that Spanish one was only 1,200m. You are well over 1,000m for most of the day and rarely go below 750m even in the brief spells in the valleys. So there is less oxygen also. I did notice this the first time I went to the Alps but it can be difficult to ascertain whether you are feeling nauseous from the altitude itself or from the effort of cycling up a massive mountain.

Total climbing in my Garmin is 4,600m and it tends to be accurate in the Alps when it is really all up or down unlike in Ireland- so that would put the day's climbing at 5.75x that one climb in Spain and with longer climbs giving less respite. It is tougher, certainly, probably tougher than doing that one climb six times in a row due to the lack of opportunities for recovery. But it is certainly achievable and like anything gets easier with practice.

kennyb3

Super stuff lads, some great reading and details in there.

niceonetom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fBhMB9ExVk