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Legalising cannibas to cure the resession?

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    #92
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    starflake wrote: »
    Thanks , I didn't know. So just a question... you know the way 14/15 year olds can get booze now.. If we legalize cannabis will it become more plentiful? Like, will kids end up smoking it because it's more socially acceptable like... My fear is that if smoking cannabis is legalised it will be seen as less of a deviant behaviour and more of a norm? So kids will try it and use it at a younger age? would that not lead to psychosis if abused at a young age? and will that not lead to more crime and acts of violence and more of a stain on the psychiatric services? Just a question.... I don't know alot about this... just wondering!

    in holland less minors smoke cannabis than here.
    maybe that's because holland has a better adjusted society or perhaps it's because the lure of forbidden fruit has been removed.


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    #93
    starflake
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭starflake


    roneythetube wrote: »
    No - just look at the Dutch experience. Cannabis has been legalised (practically) for over 30 years in Holland and the Dutch teenagers have among the lowest rate of cannabis use in Europe. Unlike the Irish teenagers who (like us all) desire the forbidden fruit and therefore lash into the hash as soon as they can!
    I lived in Holland for 5 years and its no big deal among the Dutch youth. So consequently it is not abused and creates no problems.

    EDIT - good to see the poll remaining constant at around 75-25 in favour of this idea. Now if only some politician would open their eyes and see what the people (whom they are supposed to serve) want.

    Why is it banned here then? Why is it legal in Holland? It's really interesting... I wonder how many people in their teens actually smoke in Holland and how many adults? What rates are the alcohol consumption in Holland? I don't drink or smoke so I honestly do find this discussion really interesting. Wouldn't the revenue on cannabis go down here to the same rates that it's at in Holland, which is much lower right? So for tax reasons is it actually that viable?


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    #94
    starflake
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭starflake


    Can someone post a link to the research methods used to calculate the level of cannabis usage in Ireland? I'd love to see some official figures out of curiosity?


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    #95
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    roneythetube wrote: »
    I have read your reply a few times and am not really sure what you are on about? Are you a politician perhaps?:D

    Sure, why not*
    roneythetube wrote: »
    Do some unbiased research into the health BENEFITS of cannabis and then come back and hang yer head in shame! Because you do not really know what you are talking about. And don't for one moment blame what you perceive to be your own personal 'failures' on any plant, substance, molecule or anything else.

    I await your citations, because I dont think you have any that will justify it. When did smoking in any form, outside the context of experimental medical control, become good for you?
    roneythetube wrote: »
    I am free to choose what I want to put into MY body and how I alter MY consciousness. No Gov or anyone else has a right to makes these choices for me.

    Unfortunately, they do. As history has shown, it is, within limits, for everyone's benefit.
    Auvers wrote: »
    FFS so you are protecting people from themslelves how righteous of you :rolleyes:

    By all means you can take the choice not to smoke\drink but why do people like you have to force your opinions down my throat?

    Again, where did this myth of smoking being good for you come from? You say that as if it were a case of me forcing the joint from your hands - a broader outlook would point to the good sense at a population level of discouraging smoking - particularly amongst those others who would undoubtedly become exposed to it as a consequence. Like all my other points this has little to do with the nature of the substance.
    wudangclan wrote: »
    weighed against the harmful results of prohibiton,much less so.

    Which are....?

    * Not true


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    #96
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    starflake wrote: »
    Why is it banned here then? Why is it legal in Holland? It's really interesting... I wonder how many people in their teens actually smoke in Holland and how many adults? What rates are the alcohol consumption in Holland? I don't drink or smoke so I honestly do find this discussion really interesting. Wouldn't the revenue on cannabis go down here to the same rates that it's at in Holland, which is much lower right? So for tax reasons is it actually that viable?

    it's not exactly legal there,it's 'tolerated' is the term.
    you're only allowed to buy a certain amount ,5 grams.
    it's still illegal to grow it.
    i believe a lot of the legal coffeeshop weed is grown in the italian cantons of switzerland where it is legal to grow it.


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    #97
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    efla wrote: »
    Which are....?

    * Not true

    you have me convinced.


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    #98
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    wudangclan wrote: »
    you have me convinced.

    That was a question, the 'not true' was directed at another point above


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    #99
    starflake
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭starflake


    again, I would really love to see some stats and research methods. It would make for an interesting read. How do statisticians actually go out and monitor cannabis usage? Do they research urban, suburban and rural areas?!

    I had no idea we knew how many underage people smoke weed in Ireland. To be honest if someone had come up to me when I was 15 and asked me I would have told them I was really baddass... especially if they were asking in front of my friends.


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    #100
    chachabinx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭chachabinx


    roneythetube wrote: »
    No - just look at the Dutch experience. Cannabis has been legalised (practically) for over 30 years in Holland and the Dutch teenagers have among the lowest rate of cannabis use in Europe. Unlike the Irish teenagers who (like us all) desire the forbidden fruit and therefore lash into the hash as soon as they can!
    I lived in Holland for 5 years and its no big deal among the Dutch youth. So consequently it is not abused and creates no problems.

    EDIT - good to see the poll remaining constant at around 75-25 in favour of this idea. Now if only some politician would open their eyes and see what the people (whom they are supposed to serve) want.
    I have been in Amsterdam a few time & my last time was just after my 22nd birthday... I was still gettin asked for ID EVERYWHERE!
    Also the drug dealers wont be bothered selling it because who is going to want to buy the dirt when they can get the real stuff so therefore there will be no illegal supply or a small supply if any!!!
    I have to say this country is the most boring country in the world.. thats why we have to get drunk & high out of our mind to be at all entertained... the UK is the same...
    At least in cafe's there wont be any trouble... like seriously who starts a fight when they're stoned??.. It gives young people a place to go to socialise without having to get drunk...
    And I know you can go to the pub without drinking but seriously has anyone ever tried it? Its noooo fun what-so-ever!


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    #101
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    starflake wrote: »
    Thanks , I didn't know. So just a question... you know the way 14/15 year olds can get booze now.. If we legalize cannabis will it become more plentiful? Like, will kids end up smoking it because it's more socially acceptable like... My fear is that if smoking cannabis is legalised it will be seen as less of a deviant behaviour and more of a norm? So kids will try it and use it at a younger age? would that not lead to psychosis if abused at a young age? and will that not lead to more crime and acts of violence and more of a stain on the psychiatric services? Just a question.... I don't know alot about this... just wondering!
    The fact of the matter is it's easier for kids to get cannabis than it is for them to get drink. Kids believe cannabis is completely safe for them to take as the anti cannabis dogma is so far off the truth no body believes it any more.

    It needs to be taken out of the hands of criminals that just don't care about the risks which are admittedly pretty high for teenagers and controlled properly.


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    #102
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    starflake wrote: »
    again, I would really love to see some stats and research methods. It would make for an interesting read. How do statisticians actually go out and monitor cannabis usage? Do they research urban, suburban and rural areas?!

    I had no idea we knew how many underage people smoke weed in Ireland. To be honest if someone had come up to me when I was 15 and asked me I would have told them I was really baddass... especially if they were asking in front of my friends.

    There was an interesting paper last year about historical fecal analysis methodologies for establishing baseline levels of opiate use. I'll see if I can find the reference.

    General levels are difficult to measure and rely on many sources, seizures, possession and distribution arrest statistics, some qualitative research, community works reports, surveys and some good old baseless speculation.


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    #103
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    efla wrote: »
    That was a question, the 'not true' was directed at another point above

    ok.sorry.
    so you're asking me the harmful effects of prohibition ,then.?
    -the criminals who are killed every year in the illegal cannabis industry.
    -the effects on global warming as a cause of indoor-cultivation
    -the criminalization (jailing etc) of people for 'crimes' which are mala prohibidum as oppsed to mala per-se.
    -contamination of cannabis causing ill health
    -the high thc (psychosis causing agent) negating the cb1 (anti-psychotic agent) in strains of grass

    that's it off the top of my head

    edit : (this one relating to the thread title)
    -the massive flow of cash away from the irish economy.


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    #104
    Auvers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    efla wrote: »
    again, where did this myth of smoking being good for you come from? You say that as if it were a case of me forcing the joint from your hands - a broader outlook would point to the good sense at a population level of discouraging smoking - particularly amongst those others who would undoubtedly become exposed to it as a consequence. Like all my other points this has little to do with the nature of the substance.

    I never said smoking hash was good for you, I just believe that it should be down to personal choice


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    #105
    chachabinx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭chachabinx


    EFLA

    "Which are....?!"

    The fact that drug dealers mix the drugs with whatever they want... its not regulated... superweed that is geneticall modified to have a TCP content of about 20% when it should be about 5%....
    We'll just keep it brushed under the carpet sure... what harm will that do!


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    #106
    wudangclan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭wudangclan


    chachabinx wrote: »
    EFLA


    The fact that drug dealers mix the drugs with whatever they want... its not regulated... superweed that is geneticall modified to have a THC content of about 20% when it should be about 5%....

    people use this point in favour of legalisation (ie to avoid contaminants)


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    #107
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Hauk wrote: »
    I usually calculate it by the average prices in Amsterdam, which is about 8/9/10 euro per gram.

    700000 x €9 = €6,300,000

    €6,300,000 / 100 = €63000.

    €63000 x 21.5 = €1,354,500

    And that is straight to the government. :P

    Excellent, that should cover about 0.00067% of the pubic service wage bill


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    #108
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    roneythetube wrote: »
    No - just look at the Dutch experience. Cannabis has been legalised (practically) for over 30 years in Holland and the Dutch teenagers have among the lowest rate of cannabis use in Europe. Unlike the Irish teenagers who (like us all) desire the forbidden fruit and therefore lash into the hash as soon as they can!

    .
    If i am reading this correctly you are trying to make a connection between legality and usage and by doing so showing that if it was legalised the usage would drop? If Im correct in this assumption I would like to say your assumptions(and that is all they are) are
    wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    Ask me why:p


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    #109
    starflake
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭starflake


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The fact of the matter is it's easier for kids to get cannabis than it is for them to get drink. Kids believe cannabis is completely safe for them to take as the anti cannabis dogma is so far off the truth no body believes it any more.

    It needs to be taken out of the hands of criminals that just don't care about the risks which are admittedly pretty high for teenagers and controlled properly.

    I was underage not so long ago and it was much much easier for me to get drink than to get cannabis. Does it depend on what part of the country you are living in?


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    #110
    roneythetube
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭roneythetube


    for those who refuse to believe in the medicinal benefits of cannabis please go to this link http://www.thecannabisnetwork.net/grannyslist
    for an introduction into the thousands of health benefits of this herb. And again SMOKING anything is not good for your health. VAPORIZING cannabis is excellent for your health.


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    #111
    dylano_k
    Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭dylano_k


    Yeh because all we need is a bunch of high couch potatoes laughing at Spongbob Squarepants all day to get the country back on track

    Do you wantthis guy rebuilding ireland??


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    #112
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    efla wrote: »
    Excellent, that should cover about 0.00067% of the pubic service wage bill
    And that's only a tiny amount of the cannabis used in Ireland. I'm not sure what the estimated cannabis usage figures are like. As long as they don't let the guards do the maths as they'll over value the tax revenue by at least half and wonder where their pension is gone.


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    #113
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    roneythetube wrote: »
    . VAPORIZING cannabis is excellent for your health.

    Can you prove this brother? or is it something you read on erowid or the daily smoker?


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    #114
    roneythetube
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭roneythetube


    meditraitor wrote: »
    If i am reading this correctly you are trying to make a connection between legality and usage and by doing so showing that if it was legalised the usage would drop? If Im correct in this assumption I would like to say your assumptions(and that is all they are) are
    wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    Ask me why:p

    I am not sure what you are assuming. Assume all you want. The facts show that less teenagers in Holland use cannabis than in most other European countries. Ireland has among the highest use by teenagers. It is illegal here and legal there. What could you ever assume?:)


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    #115
    projectmayhem
    Registered Users Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭projectmayhem


    dylano_k wrote: »
    Yeh because all we need is a bunch of high couch potatoes laughing at Spongbob Squarepants all day to get the country back on track

    I think it's safe to say those "couch potatoes" are already doing that. Legalising the stuff merely gives some money to the coffers of the state. We're not going to create a new era of Irish couch potatoes who only smoke weed all day rather then doing their jobs.

    As was already pointed out, less people smoke weed in Holland as a result of legalisation (though I suspect some of it is down to the Dutch being more well adjusted compared to the Irish, who are just immature), thus theoretically meaning productivity is up over there.


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    #116
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    starflake wrote: »
    I was underage not so long ago and it was much much easier for me to get drink than to get cannabis. Does it depend on what part of the country you are living in?
    Not really any more, maybe your circle of friends just aren't cool enough. :pac: It wasn't readily available to me as a kid either, I live in the boggiest part of the bog and din't have my first smoke till I was 18 and din't start regularly smoking until I was around 20, I'm now 29 and the 17 year olds can get it easier than I can because I don't do drugs as much as I used to and fell out of those circles. I'd love a regular supply of weed.


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    #117
    roneythetube
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭roneythetube


    meditraitor wrote: »
    Can you prove this brother? or is it something you read on erowid or the daily smoker?

    just do the research yourself. there is tons of info on the web about the health benefits of vaporization.
    it is near 4:20 and i am bowing out of this conversation. dunno why i ever get involved. cos there is none so blind as thems that do not want to see. :(


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    #118
    starflake
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭starflake


    roneythetube wrote: »
    I am not sure what you are assuming. Assume all you want. The facts show that less teenagers in Holland use cannabis than in most other European countries. Ireland has among the highest use by teenagers. It is illegal here and legal there. What could you ever assume?:)

    Again,

    Where are you getting your stats and figures from? I am short and Kilkenny .... Everyone from Kilkenny must be short??!!


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    #119
    starflake
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭starflake


    roneythetube wrote: »
    just do the research yourself. there is tons of info on the web about the health benefits of vaporization.
    it is near 4:20 and i am bowing out of this conversation. dunno why i ever get involved. cos there is none so blind as thems that do not want to see. :(

    No no you've got it slightly wrong there.. There's no winning an argument without proof.


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    #120
    Auvers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭Auvers


    dylano_k wrote: »
    Yeh because all we need is a bunch of high couch potatoes laughing at Spongbob Squarepants all day to get the country back on track

    this sort of sh1te annoys me, stop sterotyping people ffs. I have a family& mortgage and have been working in full time employment for the last 14 years and there is nothing I like better than going home putting the kids to bed and enjoying a smoke and letting the stress of the day fade away


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    #121
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    roneythetube wrote: »
    I am not sure what you are assuming. Assume all you want. The facts show that less teenagers in Holland use cannabis than in most other European countries. Ireland has among the highest use by teenagers. It is illegal here and legal there. What could you ever assume?:)

    For one (and this should really put a stop to your delusions)

    In the Netherlands 9.7% of young adults (aged 15–24) consume soft drugs once a month, comparable to the level in Italy (10.9%) and Germany (9.9%) and less than in the UK (15.8%) and Spain (16.4%),[19] but much higher than in, for example, Sweden (3%), Finland or Greece

    Legalising cannabis is not a major factor in usage,

    There are better arguments for legalising cannabis on this thread but I am anti so I wont answer them ;)


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