Legalising cannibas to cure the resession?

c0rk3r

chachabinx wrote: »

Im not hurting anybody...

Why cant drug users just say "at the moment i am directly/indirectly funding criminality but with legalization i will no longer be doing so" instead we get this im hurting nobody nonsense.

pikachucheeks

I misread the title of the post as
"Lesbian cannibals to cure the recession?"

Oh, where is my mind!?

Kalashnikov_Kid

ScumLord wrote: »

You should have read the rest of the thread, and 10% is an exaggeration, try 1% or less. 10% is a huge number of people.

Not at all. It is widely regarded that around 10% of people have experienced a major depressive episode of some sort at least once throughout their lives.

Smoking it is enjoyable for most but if you or your family has any history of mental illness you'd be advised to stay clear. Even if you do find you're enjoying it, some negative effects could creep up on you, and you are far more vulnerable of this happening to you if you fall into the above category.

I don't care if cannabis hasn't ever killed anyone, technically. There are still some very real dangers.

FLYNN-DOG

faceman wrote: »

Im against it. Our healthcare system is already crippled by alcohol and cigarette related illnesses. We dont need an additional burden.

I always hate the way the pro druggies always spout medicinal medicine or other benefits as if it the only and best offering to treat an ailment. Its mind altering therefore doesnt offer any treatment of most conditions it is claimed to help.

Prohibition doesnt work but as we've seen with the government's attitude to dealing with smoking in Ireland, the numbers of young people taking up smoking has greatly fallen as a result, which benefits the individual and those around them. NOt to mention the health care system.

But if sitting in stoned off your face, disconnected from the real world is your thing, knock yourself out.

You sound ridiculously annoying and boring

Kipperhell

faceman wrote: »

Im against it. Our healthcare system is already crippled by alcohol and cigarette related illnesses. We dont need an additional burden.

.

The revenue from alcohol and tobacco probably support the healthcare system. If the government lost that revenue tomorrow the country would be truly in trouble. Adding a revenue stream would probably be a good idea.

If the government really wanted to remove the revenue from criminals they could legalise home growing and amounts for personal use. The legislation is just as much at fault as the users IMHO, if you are going to pass on blame.

Hauk

Kipperhell wrote: »

If the government really wanted to remove the revenue from criminals they could legalise home growing and amounts for personal use. The legislation is just as much at fault as the users IMHO, if you are going to pass on blame.

Ideally it would be great to re-direct that revenue from criminals into proper channels.

If you legalise home growing and amounts for personal use then it would seem illogical not to be able to run a business like a coffeeshop. It's the plant itself that's illegal, so you can't have one without the other.

On the business side of things, a potential retail outlet could argue that legislation which allows home growing and small amounts for personal use, is discriminating against business owners.

It's tricky as hell

The legislation on the books is utter tripe, and hinders everybody. From the Gardai to the guy at home playing Xbox and having a joint, they both know that the lengthy process of convicting someone for small amounts of cannabis is not feasible.

The substance has to be taken from the person and sent to the lab to be tested and confirmed to be cannabis. Then the person gets a summons and taken to court where the judge either gives them a stern talking to/a warning/or a fine.

In the National Drugs Strategy, it's mentioned in section 2.29, that 80% of convictions were for possession, and 20% for supply.

National Drugs Strategy Section 2.29 wrote:

There were some concerns amongst the Steering Group about the time being allocated by An Garda Síochána to what is perceived as less serious drug - related crime, such as the possession of cannabis for personal use. The Gardaí advise that about 20% of drugs crime relates to supply offences and 80% to possession. Supply offences generally involve much more time and resources. Furthermore, Gardaí cannot foretell the outcome of their
operations in advance.

It seems everyone is in agreement but don't want to budge :P

If only we could get some economists and scientists together with some legal people to actually flesh it out.

Irishcrx

This debate comes up at least once a month, they never will in the immediate future but if it ever happend they would tax the **** out of it anyway, so i'd grow my own if it was legal...it's easy enough to do..

faceman

Pace2008 wrote: »

Your comment doesn’t really justify a response but I’d advise you to look at the World Health Organisation’s list of essential medicines. Ketamine, nitrous oxide, morphine, and a bunch of Benzos are listed there (to name but a few) – compounds which should fit your definition of ‘mind-altering’. Perhaps you’d like to contact them and tell them they’re wrong? This is a perfect example of morality getting in the way of objectivity.

You missed my point. Whenever the pro camp want to legalise weed, medicinal benefits is one of the first and primary reasons for its legalisation yet is probably the furthest justification from their personal point of view for having it legalised.

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

You sound ridiculously annoying and boring

Your post is retarded. Like your opinion.

Kipperhell wrote: »

The revenue from alcohol and tobacco probably support the healthcare system. If the government lost that revenue tomorrow the country would be truly in trouble. Adding a revenue stream would probably be a good idea..

I dont know if figures are availble on it, it would be useful to see. However given the inefficiencies already in the health care system and public service, im unconvinced that both ends meet.

Either way, suggesting adding an additional revenue stream at a cost to people's health seems somewhat ill thought out to me.

Daroxtar

It wont cure the recession but it will help us ignore the bullsh!t. Recession..pffft

NOGMaxpower

Its a well known fact that Dublin City Planning is based on Amsterdams model. Trams, waterways (recently reopened), pedestrianised roads, discussions on free bicycles for residents etc etc.

The debate on legalising blow has come up in the Dail before. Its a tough one for any government to sort out with Europe looking closely at any developments. There has been some big changes in Amsterdam recently with new laws on smoking in coffee shops and limiting the number of licenses on the sale of weed.

That said, its only a matter of time before it is legalised. The problem is convincing the wider neigh sayers that its a good idea. Ireland is known as a nation of piss heads, when actually in fact we're one of the biggest stoner countries in the EU.

Issues like

• Impact on health system
• Criminality
• Hordes of nasty tourists ruining our city centre etc

Doesn't really matter all. The health system is already impacted in a negitive way by the large number of Irish who already smoke pot so there's no difference at all. Whats more they are smoking sub standard hash and dodgey weed filled with glass = far worse for the health system. If it were legalised it would be controlled. The THC content would be goverened and priced accordingly and we wouldn't need ot be worried about other damaging toxins being added to give it flavour and body = positive impact on health system

Criminality, would take a massive hit. Since pot is their bread and butter they'd be missing out on millions. They would also be missing out on future customers of harder drugs since they would stay on weed and away form cocaine and heroine and even crack to a larger extent. = Positive on health and crime and tax revenues.

Hordes of nasty tourists, would be replaced with passive stoner types. Since most of the tourists hitting Ireland go bananas on drink. You never hear of a stoner getting into a street fight over a fallen kebab. Temple bar would see far less puke and broken glass on its street. Resteraunts, Take aways would have boom when all the stoners get the munchies. In short positives = less drunken crime on our streets so Garda can concentrate on bigger problems, less piss heads/injuries in AE so less cost in hospitals, extra revenue from late night food - munchies and increased tourism.

I fail to see any negitives that can't be rebutted with a positive.

chachabinx

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Its a well known fact that Dublin City Planning is based on Amsterdams model. Trams, waterways (recently reopened), pedestrianised roads, discussions on free bicycles for residents etc etc.

The debate on legalising blow has come up in the Dail before. Its a tough one for any government to sort out with Europe looking closely at any developments. There has been some big changes in Amsterdam recently with new laws on smoking in coffee shops and limiting the number of licenses on the sale of weed.

That said, its only a matter of time before it is legalised. The problem is convincing the wider neigh sayers that its a good idea. Ireland is known as a nation of piss heads, when actually in fact we're one of the biggest stoner countries in the EU.

Issues like

• Impact on health system
• Criminality
• Hordes of nasty tourists ruining our city centre etc

Doesn't really matter all. The health system is already impacted in a negitive way by the large number of Irish who already smoke pot so there's no difference at all. Whats more they are smoking sub standard hash and dodgey weed filled with glass = far worse for the health system. If it were legalised it would be controlled. The THC content would be goverened and priced accordingly and we wouldn't need ot be worried about other damaging toxins being added to give it flavour and body = positive impact on health system

Criminality, would take a massive hit. Since pot is their bread and butter they'd be missing out on millions. They would also be missing out on future customers of harder drugs since they would stay on weed and away form cocaine and heroine and even crack to a larger extent. = Positive on health and crime and tax revenues.

Hordes of nasty tourists, would be replaced with passive stoner types. Since most of the tourists hitting Ireland go bananas on drink. You never hear of a stoner getting into a street fight over a fallen kebab. Temple bar would see far less puke and broken glass on its street. Resteraunts, Take aways would have boom when all the stoners get the munchies. In short positives = less drunken crime on our streets so Garda can concentrate on bigger problems, less piss heads/injuries in AE so less cost in hospitals, extra revenue from late night food - munchies and increased tourism.

I fail to see any negitives that can't be rebutted with a positive.

Well done... what I've been trying to expain!

ScumLord

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I fail to see any negitives that can't be rebutted with a positive.

I think weed would really suit Ireland down to the ground. We're supposed to be a relaxed country, we already have the theme tune (the green, green grass of home) and we need the revenue recreational, medical and industrial cannabis growing can bring.

Hauk

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Criminality, would take a massive hit. Since pot is their bread and butter they'd be missing out on millions. They would also be missing out on future customers of harder drugs since they would stay on weed and away form cocaine and heroine and even crack to a larger extent. = Positive on health and crime and tax revenues.

I fail to see any negatives that can't be rebutted with a positive.

Me too. Good points. Nothing I haven't read before, but well versed nonetheless.

I checked the seizures totals for cannabis herb and resin for 2007(from the National Drug Strategy PDF), which is: 2949.62KG

This equates to: 2,949,620 grams.

Times this by 9 euro per gram(Typical Dutch price for a gram).

€26,546,580

21% of that figure is: €5,707,514.7

Which is a lot of money into the Government coffers.

Edit: And that is of the stuff they seized. This doesn't represent the actual weight per annum that comes into the country undetected or home grown.

Wez

Some very good points made so far, good to see!

The problems on the health front, I think, are all over hyped. The same propaganda that made politicians bring in a blanket ban on ganja in 1937, was just as well researched as alot of the anti-legalise arguements. Just as people are saying there is a huge risk from smoking, that's from back in the day (near in time to when smoking tobacco was thought to be healthy), 21st century tokers use vaporizers, or eat it (most efficient with no health risk).

I've read alot of study's regarding health implications, and the general concensous is, only if you already have underlying mental health issues, can they present problems when consuming on a very regular basis. - But there are also reports stating how it can benefit mental illness, so maybe it's not even a valid arguement (seeing as this myth originated from the propaganda adverts made by William Randolph Hearst about 'potheads axing their family's, jumping from buildings etc').

And on a final note:

"Hemp is not only in direct competition with timber and petroleum, but also with many other industries throughout the world. Hemp offers wholesome and nutritious foodstuffs such as edible oil from the seeds, which are also used for making chocolate bars and other foods; renewable fiber for clothing and building. The original Levi jeans were made from hemp but lasted too long to be commercially viable; high grade papers, such as those used for bank notes, tissues, hand towels, and tea bags, where strength when wet is critical, and so much more. Cannabis is a medicine that was created by nature, producing powerful documented results without the side effects of the manufactured chemicals that the drug companies peddle during every television commercial break. Cannabis can even be a nice after work treat in the same way that a glass of beer or wine is enjoyed after a long day at the office."

Also, an interesting insight into the America's original stance on hemp.. Interesting how they never seem to bring this up..

lizzyvera

120_Minutes wrote: »

going rate for weed in my area is 3g fro 50 quid

This is another reason it should be legalised! You're wasting your money. Buy in ounces and refuse to pay more than €200 for 28g.

Pace2008

This is another reason it should be legalised! You're wasting your money. Buy in ounces and refuse to pay more than €200 for 28g.

I buy weed off the travellers and if I demended that rate I'd either be told where to go or get sold a bag of stems.

EDIT: Just worked it out, it's not actually as ridiculous as I previously thought.

Overheal

How will this cure the recession? A good tenth or more of the workforce is already home on the couch all day. You think offering them Marijuana is going to help them find a job any faster?

Irishcrx

It won't cure a recession , it might help and it would be deadly to have it legal. It should be anyway it grows naturaly and I have a right to smoke it, its not for the government to decide for me. Note I have problems with authority.

Kipperhell

Hauk wrote: »

Ideally it would be great to re-direct that revenue from criminals into proper channels.

If you legalise home growing and amounts for personal use then it would seem illogical not to be able to run a business like a coffeeshop. It's the plant itself that's illegal, so you can't have one without the other.

The law doesn't have to be logical. Alcohol is more dangerous but legal for example which isn't logical. It is illegal to make your own spirits but you can buy them in a supermarket. So you can easily make a law that is particular about running a business or a farm and home growing. Nothing very difficult.

It would eliminate tourist users yet reduce criminal activity/funding. Chances are it would certainly stop parents worrying extra about kids getting it. If you have some bring in a registration system for legal ownership you can't have people buying and claiming they grow it. Gateway drug to gardening rather than worse drugs

chachabinx

Wez wrote: »

Some very good points made so far, good to see!

The problems on the health front, I think, are all over hyped. The same propaganda that made politicians bring in a blanket ban on ganja in 1937, was just as well researched as alot of the anti-legalise arguements. Just as people are saying there is a huge risk from smoking, that's from back in the day (near in time to when smoking tobacco was thought to be healthy), 21st century tokers use vaporizers, or eat it (most efficient with no health risk).

I've read alot of study's regarding health implications, and the general concensous is, only if you already have underlying mental health issues, can they present problems when consuming on a very regular basis. - But there are also reports stating how it can benefit mental illness, so maybe it's not even a valid arguement (seeing as this myth originated from the propaganda adverts made by William Randolph Hearst about 'potheads axing their family's, jumping from buildings etc').

And on a final note:

"Hemp is not only in direct competition with timber and petroleum, but also with many other industries throughout the world. Hemp offers wholesome and nutritious foodstuffs such as edible oil from the seeds, which are also used for making chocolate bars and other foods; renewable fiber for clothing and building. The original Levi jeans were made from hemp but lasted too long to be commercially viable; high grade papers, such as those used for bank notes, tissues, hand towels, and tea bags, where strength when wet is critical, and so much more. Cannabis is a medicine that was created by nature, producing powerful documented results without the side effects of the manufactured chemicals that the drug companies peddle during every television commercial break. Cannabis can even be a nice after work treat in the same way that a glass of beer or wine is enjoyed after a long day at the office."

Also, an interesting insight into the America's original stance on hemp.. Interesting how they never seem to bring this up..

I thought that it was originally banned because it was ruining the cotton industry... thats what they told me in the museum in Amsterdam...

America's stance on hemp... weird one!.. Its legal under state law in California its legal for medical (which Arnie might change to just legal for everyone to help with the resession) but under federal law its illegal so the feds can just walk in & shut down coffee shops...

WELCOME TO AMERICA...DUH!

chachabinx

Overheal wrote: »

How will this cure the recession? A good tenth or more of the workforce is already home on the couch all day. You think offering them Marijuana is going to help them find a job any faster?

Typical stereotypical answer... JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SMOKES WEED DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE ANY LIKELY TO WORK...
we are trying to create jobs here by legalising it...
THE CHEEK OF YE!

ScumLord

Overheal wrote: »

How will this cure the recession? A good tenth or more of the workforce is already home on the couch all day. You think offering them Marijuana is going to help them find a job any faster?

Yes, yes I do. They need money to buy more weed and climbing in windows stealing while your stoned just isn't feasible.

roneythetube

Overheal wrote: »

How will this cure the recession? A good tenth or more of the workforce is already home on the couch all day. You think offering them Marijuana is going to help them find a job any faster?

I am not being mean here but this kinda comment ( and you are not alone Overheal in this well meaning but misguided concern) is jumping to massive illogical conclusions.

Why would a person who has no real interest in this herb suddenly decide to spend all day smoking ganga just because it became easier to buy? If people want it they get it.
If people don't want to use it they will not - it's a choice. However if they do choose to use it and find it helpful in their life then it should not be a crime to do so.

A bold step like this is just what this Government needs to kick start the economy but is most unlikely to do.

Ostrom

chachabinx wrote: »

Typical stereotypical answer... JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SMOKES WEED DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE ANY LIKELY TO WORK...
we are trying to create jobs here by legalising it...
THE CHEEK OF YE!

I dont think he was suggesting cause.

What exactly are you doing to legalise it?

DigiGal

Imagine the tax the bastards would put on it....

No more ten spots!

username4321

I am very much against it, it should stay illegal.

Terry

I read on a website that cannabis cures cancer and everything else.
I completely believe it and am totally for the legalisation of cannabis.
I also heard that if you smoke it, you can repel sharks.

ScumLord

Terry wrote: »

I read on a website that cannabis cures cancer and everything else.
I completely believe it and am totally for the legalisation of cannabis.
I also heard that if you smoke it, you can repel sharks.

That's absolutely true, I've repelled sharks and 60ft female attackers. Not at the same time though that would be crazy.

-Leelo-

My name is URL wrote: »

Amsterdam is an incredible place, even if there was no vice tourism it'd still probably be the best city in Europe. The infrastructure & efficiency there is epic. They have mobile police stations that park up outside nightclubs etc to stop violence and other crime

Where were the mobile police when my friend was mugged and had all his money robbed on his first night over there?? He had no money for the rest of the weekend! :pac: Then again he probably asked for it by (a) rambling up an alley blind drunk on his own (b) insisting on bringing all of his money out even though there was a safe in the hotel room. Eejit

sneakerfreak

dont legalise it ffs i dont want to pay VAT