Why do some Northern Irish fans call the ROI team "The beggars"?

briany

I was on a Northern Irish fansite to read what they were saying about their match with Slovakia and I saw some posters reffering to the ROI team as "The beggars". What does this mean? What does it refer to? Is it just some dumb sectarian thing?

Here's an example from http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=27123&st=15

"Let's be hospitable to them as we are with all our guests, and hope they beat the beggars in the play-offs so we can all party together again in South Africa."

Gavin "shels"

Just a guess, but it could have something to either do with the Ste Ireland thing or the fact of the granny rule.

enda1

It beggers belief!

~Rebel~

I dont think its football related, more a description of Ireland as a traditionally poor country before recent times. found this as well which talks about the same insult, though between celtic and rangers fans; http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081008095004AA960RP

A_Fitz

briany wrote: »

I was on a Northern Irish fansite to read what they were saying about their match with Slovakia and I saw some posters reffering to the ROI team as "The beggars". What does this mean? What does it refer to? Is it just some dumb sectarian thing?

Here's an example from http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=27123&st=15

"Let's be hospitable to them as we are with all our guests, and hope they beat the beggars in the play-offs so we can all party together again in South Africa."

It's a poor retort to ROI fans for referring to them as 'a shower of loylalist bast@rds' and/or 'dirty orange dogs'

briany

Um, yeah.........:rolleyes::eek:

anonymous_joe

And sure the FAI might have 'begged' for a HQ when we abandoned the IFA or some shíte like that.

But my money would be on sectarian insult.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

McGrath5

What is your man on here, full of crap.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/worldcup2002.html

briany

Perfect Choice wrote: »

What is your man on here, full of crap.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/worldcup2002.html

:eek:

That guy is way too hate filled not that there should be any hate at all. The thing is I, along with most other people in the Republic I'm sure, would have dearly loved to see our neighbours qualify and do well but people like him do make it that little bit harder unfortunately. His rant sounds almost Westboro Baptist Church-esque at times.

CCCP^

Perfect Choice wrote: »

What is your man on here, full of crap.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/worldcup2002.html

Jesus christ, was that for real?

grenache

The real question that needs to be asked is why do the North even play in green? Considering their hatred for most things of the emerald shade, they're quite happy to clad themselves in it for hours on end.

grenache

grenache wrote: »

The real question that needs to be asked is why do the North even play in green? Considering their hatred for most things of the emerald shade, they're quite happy to clad themselves in it for hours on end.

Thats what I always wondered,green should be the last colour they play in.

A_Fitz

grenache wrote: »

The real question that needs to be asked is why do the North even play in green? Considering their hatred for most things of the emerald shade, they're quite happy to clad themselves in it for hours on end.

Ya, often wondered about this. Orange, or a blue/white/red combo, would surely work better for them, maybe with a small England crest next to their own, and 'No Surrender' embroidered somewhere on it

would have dearly loved to see our neighbours qualify

Oh ya, absolutely









*ahem*

CHD

Perfect Choice wrote: »

What is your man on here, full of crap.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/worldcup2002.html

Wow what a bitter twisted sad little jealous man. Hope he reads this too. LOL at you.

Nalz

Perfect Choice wrote: »

What is your man on here, full of crap.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/worldcup2002.html

lol No Surrender!

Benedict XVI

grenache wrote: »

The real question that needs to be asked is why do the North even play in green? Considering their hatred for most things of the emerald shade, they're quite happy to clad themselves in it for hours on end.

Because people in North Ireland, regardless of political leaning, see themselves as Irish, and Green is the colour of Ireland

Nationalists see themselves as Irish in the sense of a 32 county All Ireland nation

Unionists see themselves as Irish within the British family and being Irish distinguishes them from Scot, Welsh and English

Mars Bar

When Ireland and the North were split, NI was the industrialised part of the country so we became dependent on agriculture, which wasn't really ideal as the times they were a-changing!

briany

Yeah it's a good point this, maybe they could have a little bit of orange in their jersey?

Mars Bar

briany wrote: »

Yeah it's a good point this, maybe they could have a little bit of orange in their jersey?

And look like this :



or they could have their away kit like this?




Don't think so!

What were they thinking with that Orange away kit?!

Karmafaerie

You'll find the same level of bigotry in the south aswell.
I know a guy who hates to see Northern Ireland win.

briany

mars bar wrote: »

And look like this :



or they could have their away kit like this?




Don't think so!

What were they thinking with that Orange away kit?!

I was thinking more of a red, white and orange top, with green shorts and yellow and blue socks. Sure it would be a garish fashion disaster but I think it could make everybody happy......

Mars Bar

briany wrote: »

I was thinking more of a red, white and orange top, with green shorts and yellow and blue socks. Sure it would be a garish fashion disaster but I think it could make everybody happy......

Yes blind the opposition or make them feel ill...always a good way to go about things!

Benedict XVI

Perfect Choice wrote: »

What is your man on here, full of crap.

http://www.ourweecountry.co.uk/worldcup2002.html

I'm sure you would find the same type of attitude to a NI team in a WC that we were not in written by someone on a website for ROI fans

He has a very valid point about a team called Ireland playing, last time I checked the team was Republic of Ireland

grenache

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I'm sure you would find the same type of attitude to a NI team in a WC that we were not in written by someone on a website for ROI fans

He has a very valid point about a team called Ireland playing, last time I checked the team was Republic of Ireland

Not wishing to be a nit picking political annoyance, but the name of the country as per the 1937 constitution is 'Ireland'. This hasn't changed. FIFA include the Republic bit only to distinguish us from the North. Ireland is the independent Ireland to me. And the North is the North.

grenache

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Because people in North Ireland, regardless of political leaning, see themselves as Irish, and Green is the colour of Ireland

Nationalists see themselves as Irish in the sense of a 32 county All Ireland nation

Unionists see themselves as Irish within the British family and being Irish distinguishes them from Scot, Welsh and English

Different Unionist people will say different things. According to Willie McCrea of the DUP, he is 100% British. But the late David Ervine of the PUP was once quoted as saying he sees himself as an Irish but his allegiance is to the UK. I dont agree with your view of them being 'Irish within the wider British family', since Britain and Ireland are too separate islands and two different races. Ireland isn't part of the island of Britain. I do think the Unionists up North are British though. They haven't intermarried with the native Irish and are direct descendants from the plantation settlers. So yeah, to me they're an ultra British people, who just happen to be born on the island of Ireland.

luckylucky

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Because people in North Ireland, regardless of political leaning, see themselves as Irish, and Green is the colour of Ireland

Nationalists see themselves as Irish in the sense of a 32 county All Ireland nation

Unionists see themselves as Irish within the British family and being Irish distinguishes them from Scot, Welsh and English

I disagree. I agree that some unionists see themselves as you mentioned, but I think it's more complicated than that, some see themselves as purely British, others see themselves as Ulstermen/ northern Irish and British.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

You'll find the same level of bigotry in the south aswell.
I know a guy who hates to see Northern Ireland win.

No way do you see the same level of bigotry - not to the same scale. Yeah I'm sure they are examples of it like your mate, but it's no way near as common. Personally because of the way their fans are towards us - I have nothing more than a passing interest in how Northern Ireland do - just cause they have Ireland in their name doesn't mean they should be automatically supported by people from the Republic imo. I don't cheer against them either for that matter.

luckylucky

You were doing fine up to here...

grenache wrote: »

They haven't intermarried with the native Irish and are direct descendants from the plantation settlers. So yeah, to me they're an ultra British people, who just happen to be born on the island of Ireland.

Eh, where have you done your research on that gem :rolleyes:.

They are here 400 years and they haven't inter-married - don't think so.
Gerry Adams, John Hume. Adams and Hume are both planter names
Terence O'Neill. Former Ulster Unionsist Prime Minister of N.I back in the 60s.

_blank_

grenache wrote: »

two different races.

lol

keano_afc

I wasnt crying into my cornflakes when they lost the other night. I wasnt doing cartwheels either, but I still would prefer to see them lose. I suppose one of my best footballing memories has something to do with it. Alan McLoughlin, Winsor Park, November 1993. I can still remember Billy Bingham celebrating to the crowd thinking his boys had knocked us out of the World Cup. Ever since then I've disliked them.

super_furry

Yeah I only have a vague sense of dislike for Northern Ireland that's solely based on how much they despise us.

peter1892

The IFA are the original Football Association on this Island. The FAI was a breakway after partition. In fact the N.I. team was referred to as 'Ireland' for many years after the split.

Having read that 'Our Wee Country' link, I can't help but laugh at the siege mentality of someone who thinks like that. Mind you, replace the Ireland/Northern Ireland references with ones relating to any two rival clubs you care to mention and it reads a lot like any bitter ranting football blog or fanzine out there.

Me personally, having been born within a mile or so of Windsor Park, I wouldn't support N.I. now. When I was a kid I cheered for them in 1982 & 86, but after the infamous 'night in November' in 1993, no thanks.

jimmyboy

Kinda reminds me the way we are about the English.
We hate seeing win where as the majority of them couldnt care about our results

chopperbyrne

That orange away kit we had was bloody lovely. A shame some idiots couldn't see past their own bigotry.

A_Fitz

jimmyboy wrote: »

Kinda reminds me the way we are about the English.
We hate seeing win where as the majority of them couldnt care about our results

Ya, but the North despise us!




That orange kit was a ****ing abomination, irrelevant of any politics

Eirebear

lol...the lack of bigotry around here really is amazing!;)

lisbon_lions

Meh, I greet them with a morbid curiosity like say a doctor would a weird growth.

Seen as they feel the need to belittle us and always will do, I think our major tournaments are better off without them. 82 was a blip and thankfully they remain to be minnows and point gathering cannon fodder for others on their travels to these tournaments - despite what flawed fifa rankings may say.

Let them wallow and drown in their own bitter stew I say.

luckylucky

Eirebear wrote: »

lol...the lack of bigotry around here really is amazing!;)

Yes, what a bigoted bunch of taigs we are :rolleyes:.

again there is no comparison to the vitriol represented in that our wee country site and what's gone on in this thread. Completely different scale. In fact the only thing I've seen that would come anyway close on the bigotry scales is Lisbon lion's post and that came after your post.

jimmyboy wrote: »

Kinda reminds me the way we are about the English.
We hate seeing win where as the majority of them couldnt care about our results

I dunno, I've seen a lot of Irish people on boards being supportive of England, it seems to be the case that in most cases either you support them or you're against them. I'm probably one of a small percentage that usually take a neutral stand on em. I've lots of English friends so I'd probably support them if it wasn't for being brought up to not support them and all the bad history.

lisbon_lions

luckylucky wrote: »

In fact the only thing I've seen that would come anyway close on the bigotry scales is Lisbon lion's post and that came after your post.

Care to elaborate on that comment there?

therecklessone

luckylucky wrote: »

again there is no comparison to the vitriol represented in that our wee country site and what's gone on in this thread. Completely different scale. In fact the only thing I've seen that would come anyway close on the bigotry scales is Lisbon lion's post and that came after your post.

You've not seen the deleted posts tbh.

luckylucky

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Care to elaborate on that comment there?

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Meh, I greet them with a morbid curiosity like say a doctor would a weird growth.

Seen as they feel the need to belittle us and always will do, I think our major tournaments are better off without them. 82 was a blip and thankfully they remain to be minnows and point gathering cannon fodder for others on their travels to these tournaments - despite what flawed fifa rankings may say.

Let them wallow and drown in their own bitter stew I say.

Well maybe a belittling of them rather than outright bigotry, as I said Eirebear I think is short of material to work with here to show REAL bigotry.

luckylucky

therecklessone wrote: »

You've not seen the deleted posts tbh.

nope I haven't - fair enough then.

ANTIFA!

luckylucky wrote: »

Yes, what a bigoted bunch of taigs we are :rolleyes:.

again there is no comparison to the vitriol represented in that our wee country site and what's gone on in this thread. Completely different scale. In fact the only thing I've seen that would come anyway close on the bigotry scales is Lisbon lion's post and that came after your post.



I dunno, I've seen a lot of Irish people on boards being supportive of England, it seems to be the case that in most cases either you support them or you're against them. I'm probably one of a small percentage that usually take a neutral stand on em. I've lots of English friends so I'd probably support them if it wasn't for being brought up to not support them and all the bad history.

Thats because at least they know that they will look a bit stupid if they proclaim their love for all their English heroes and teams one week and then come the English National Team turn into anti-English xenephobes.

However for the average barstooler that you see in pubs every week in Ireland the irony is not lost..

lisbon_lions

luckylucky wrote: »

Well maybe a belittling of them rather than outright bigotry,

I appreciate your coming back on that. Lets just say I keep them at arms length.

Blackjack

keano_afc wrote: »

I wasnt crying into my cornflakes when they lost the other night. I wasnt doing cartwheels either, but I still would prefer to see them lose. I suppose one of my best footballing memories has something to do with it. Alan McLoughlin, Winsor Park, November 1993. I can still remember Billy Bingham celebrating to the crowd thinking his boys had knocked us out of the World Cup. Ever since then I've disliked them.

Pretty much the same as that. Have successfully ignored their existence - whatever one may think of it - since then really.

briany

Suppose its no wonder that we havent played a game against them in what? Ten years? Shame that, and I was beginning to think we were all friends, well......by and large. Oh well, heres to ten more if thats the case.:rolleyes:

CHD

briany wrote: »

Suppose its no wonder that we havent played a game against them in what? Ten years? Shame that, and I was beginning to think we were all friends, well......by and large. Oh well, heres to ten more if thats the case.:rolleyes:

Should be playing them soon though. That Celtic Cup thing.

briany

I'm kinda surprised that some among their numbers haven't objected to it being called the Celtic Cup, lol. Maybe "The Championship of the Islands of the North-West Atlantic"? Too much of a mouthful maybe? Perhaps Iceland and the Faroes would want in too?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

briany wrote: »

I'm kinda surprised that some among their numbers haven't objected to it being called the Celtic Cup, lol. Maybe "The Championship of the Islands of the North-West Atlantic"? Too much of a mouthful maybe? Perhaps Iceland and the Faroes would want in too?

Why would anyone object to that

yayamark

Jeez never realised that there was that hatred there.

I for one never have any contact with them so have never seen there hatred for us. It never bothered me when they won or lost. I actually thought they were anti-english by there celebrations when they beat england about a year ago.

Bit sad really

A Primal Nut

briany wrote: »

Yeah it's a good point this, maybe they could have a little bit of orange in their jersey?

They had a green and blue jersey a few years ago. Four squares - top left green, top right blue, bottom left blue, bottom right green. It was horrible though. Can't find an image now!