Seriously - Will The Irish Public Please cop The Hell On!

General Zod

Biggins wrote: »

Its fcuking disgusting whats going on! :mad:

You know, I do agree with what you are saying, but it must be remembered that this money for the cycle path was made available from the transport budget, not the Health one. Harney shelved the plan, she should have found the money from within her budget.

Why is this plan, which will promote cycling in the city, which will benefit the long term safety and health of it's citizens, in the firing line when so many other projects which aren't in the Health budget not get targetted in the same way?

Don't get me wrong, what was happening down at the children's hospital in Crumlin and what is happening with the cervical cancer jab is disgraceful, but the target for this should be Mary Harney's decision making, not what other departments are doing.

General Zod

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

The main problem I see with this would be - who do we put in power??

How about - an accountant as head of finance, a doctor as head of health & children, a general as head of defence etc etc ya know, people who are actually relevant to the positions they hold.

Every department has a team of civil servants who advise the minister. The minister is a TD, a person elected by their constitiuents. While some expertise in the department they are in charge of is a great idea, not every decision or policy is written exclusively by the relevant Minister.

Lord Trollington

General Zod wrote: »

You know, I do agree with what you are saying, but it must be remembered that this money for the cycle path was made available from the transport budget, not the Health one. Harney shelved the plan, she should have found the money from within her budget.

Why is this plan, which will promote cycling in the city, which will benefit the long term safety and health of it's citizens, in the firing line when so many other projects which aren't in the Health budget not get targetted in the same way?

Don't get me wrong, what was happening down at the children's hospital in Crumlin and what is happening with the cervical cancer jab is disgraceful, but the target for this should be Mary Harney's decision making, not what other departments are doing.

It should be all about prioritizing.
Yes i know that the money for the cycle path in Dublin had already been allocated to the department of transport but it had not been built or the project started.
Really is 9m on a cycle path through dublin a priority at the moment, No i dont think so.
I dont know how anyone else feels. Thats just my opinion.
This money could have been relocated along with other non essential projects that are in the pipline.

Cianos

Biggins wrote: »

Long story short, I agree with you
- but what little money we do have, should be now spent in the right direction to stop further what WILL be increasing costs later on put on the state and thus the tax payer - you - as the subsequent medical costs of those not treated early enough, will progressively get larger and thus pull the state into further national debt.

I'm not sure if you do agree with me. I haven't read anything you've said that goes beyond pointing at things that seem wasteful and complaining about them*. Not that this isn't needed, and I'm not discouraging you or anyone else from complaining. But what are you suggesting to do that would change how things are managed? Simply saying "don't buy this, buy this!" is not going to change anything. It's just going to move the problem from one area to another, and then eventually back again.

*eg The bike lanes can be seen as a part solution to health issues, as encouraging a better biking culture will increase the health and fitness of the population, thus reducing the strain on the health services while improving infrastructure as well.

Biggins

I appologise if I appear to be singling out anyone that might NOT be of similar thoughts to my own.
Ye ARE all making good points including the latest one by General Zod.

All I can say to yourself, good sir, is that I'm not just out to pick on bikers at the present time. Other projects should be targeted at the present time also. Ones that have a lesser costly long-term outcome to the state.

It wouldn't be the first time I suspect that money from one department has been frozen and transferred to another issue given that finances were/are tight.
At the present time, just for the present time, we should be more prioritising stricter in order to save the state money now and in the long run to avoid further debt.

For those that made "devils advocate" ideas and thoughts, you do have and make genuine points and I can see where ye are coming from.
I reserve the right to be wrong (won't be the first time!) and off base.

Cianos wrote: »

I'm not sure if you do agree with me. I haven't read anything you've said that goes beyond pointing at things that seem wasteful and complaining about them*...

*eg The bike lanes can be seen as a part solution to health issues, as encouraging a better biking culture will increase the health and fitness of the population, thus reducing the strain on the health services while improving infrastructure as well.

Part of my feelings towards this issue, is that there is a time and a place and because of the way the state is at the moment, we need to be looking at that situation more so than ever before.

..and I do agree with you 100% on the latter point. Its a point well made and cannot be knocked.
It has clear validity.

General Zod

Biggins wrote: »

I appologise if I appear to be singling out anyone that might be of similar thoughs to my own.
Ye ARE all making good points including the latest one by General Zod.

All I can say to yourself, good sir, is that I'm not just out to pick on bikers at the present time. Other projects should be targeted at the present time also. Ones that have a lesser costly long-term outcome to the state.

I never thought you were picking on the bikers, good sir , more that something like that it's the easy target to say Why are we doing X, when we need money for Y? The real target for Ireland's ire should be what is the department that is responsible for Y spending Y's money on instead?

Dublin_Gunner

General Zod wrote: »

Every department has a team of civil servants who advise the minister. The minister is a TD, a person elected by their constitiuents. While some expertise in the department they are in charge of is a great idea, not every decision or policy is written exclusively by the relevant Minister.

Yeah, a TEAM of civil servants, on massive civil servant wages, 'advising' the minister on an issue said minister should not need advice on.

I think your point only proved to exacerbate the point I was trying to make. What is the point in electing someone to a position, when all they are going to do is take advice from others on how they should perform their job? While I do agree that major decisions should not be left up to just 1 person, its farcical in this country.

I think we've been so use to having retarded ministers in power, and how our country un-works, that we see this as being the correct way for a government, and our country to be run.

who the fug

skelliser wrote: »

John o donoughue spent 600euros of taxpayers money getting a chauffer driven car from t1 to t2 in heathrow a journey of less the five minutes which is also free on a bus provided by heathrow!

Why ??

Just to give people an idea of how close these terminals are, if you go through a wrong door in Terminal One Air Side you end up clearing emigration in Terminal Two.

It be quicker to walk than take a Bus

Biggins

See, I can be a plonker (again)!

I apologise if I appear to be singling out anyone that might NOT be of similar thoughts to my own.

I left out the "NOT" above.
Now re-edited.

Catenaccio!

who the fug wrote: »

Why ??

Just to give people an idea of how close these terminals are, if you go through a wrong door in Terminal One Air Side you end up clearing emigration in Terminal Two.

It be quicker to walk than take a Bus

Don't think I'd like to see government officials taking public transport tbh.

Hrududu

I think a lot of people complain and do nothing because there is really nothing to do. Protests don't work, marches don't work. Unless people can come up with something that might genuinely change things then things will remain as they are.

Biggins

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Don't think I'd like to see government officials taking public transport tbh.

I doubt now if even a lot of them even know how much an average bus fare costs to be honest.
And if a FF member was on a public service, I'd be delighted to see him/her there.
I wouldn't harass them there just because I thought different from them but think more of them for actually being with the people they are supposed to be representing.

Its now easier to spot magpies than it is to spot a FF or green TD in public!

Euro_Kraut

Biggins, instead of having a gripe with the money spent on the bike lanes (which may be a postive health investment) maybe the anger coudl be focused towards this:http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0911/candag.html

The whole e-voting project has cost €54.5m to date with the storage alone costing €3m.

There are no public health benefits (that I can think off!) to e-voting machines.

Irishcrx

I predict a good old fasioned riot...and not before its time..

General Zod

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Yeah, a TEAM of civil servants, on massive civil servant wages, 'advising' the minister on an issue said minister should not need advice on.

You have no idea how government works, and your proposed solution of getting rid of the civil servants and leaving just the ministers to oversee a multi-billion euro economy is ill advised, to say the least. You think the minister should project manage everything within his remit?

Biggins

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Biggins, instead of having a gripe with the money spent on the bike lanes (which may be a postive health investment) maybe the anger coudl be focused towards this:http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0911/candag.html

The whole e-voting project has cost €54.5m to date with the storage alone costing €3m.

There are no public health benefits (that I can think off!) to e-voting machines.

No argument there. Your right.
Just more stupidity. One of which I highlighted some time ago - for the simple reason that some of the properties that were used to store the machines was owned by some TDs and/or their close friends apparently. :rolleyes:

All coincidence of course.

Yep, you right Euro_Kraut.

who the fug

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Don't think I'd like to see government officials taking public transport tbh.

Not asking him to use public transport, just pointing out shanks pony is the fastest way to transfer between these two terminals

Dublin_Gunner

General Zod wrote: »

You have no idea how government works, and your proposed solution of getting rid of the civil servants and leaving just the ministers to oversee a multi-billion euro economy is ill advised, to say the least. You think the minister should project manage everything within his remit?

Thanks for making a completely blind statement on my knowledge of government workings. I do know how the government works, thank you very much.

I in no way advocated the dismantling of the civil service. You obviously missed my point. The whole organisation needs to be restructured, and streamlined.

Having 10 people on 80k a year to advise one person on 200k a year is hardly good business sense.

Do I think a Minister should project manage everything in his/her remit?? Yes I bloody well do, that whats they're paid for FFS.

deadhead13

The Ceann Comhairle is automatically re-elected in the next general election. But for sake of arguement - if John O' Donoghue was to stand would the recent revelations stop him from regaining the seat. I don't think it would. And here lies the problem.

Euro_Kraut

deadhead13 wrote: »

The Ceann Comhairle is automatically re-elected in the next general election. But for sake of argue - if John O' Donoghue was to stand would the recent revelations stop him from regaining the seat. I don't think it would. And here lies the problem.

I agree. Look at how the people of North Tipp have responded to Michael Lowry.

He recently got 5 councillors elected to the Council under the 'Team Lowry' banner. He is hugely popular in and around Thurles. I know people from down there. He has peddled a line that it was all 'them shower up in Dublin' that were out to get him and 'sure they are all at it anyway'. He is very wealthy and employed a lot of people in the town in the past so that helps spread the message.

He is now propping up one of the most unpopular Govts in the States history, yet he takes no stick for it. Its very sad to see a person like him succeed in Irish life.

ArmaniJeanss

deadhead13 wrote: »

The Ceann Comhairle is automatically re-elected in the next general election. But for sake of argue - if John O' Donoghue was to stand would the recent revelations stop him from regaining the seat. I don't think it would. And here lies the problem.

Its a fair point. When the Expenses scandal broke in the UK there seemed to be a lot of anger in individual constiuencies about the abuses of the system being perpertrated by their local MPs.

Whereas for whatever reason in Ireland there seems to be almost a sense of pride in having the local boy/girl socking it to the system.

Hence Michael Lowry and Beverly Flynn topping the polls, and I've little doubt O'Donoghue would be relected in Kerry as well.

It shows a lack of maturity on the electorates part.

Húrin

Aubree Scrawny Office wrote: »

The government will more than likely ignore the 1-2 thousand people who would march on the dail. They would basically laugh, then make up some legislation that would make it illegal.
....


Guys, our government don't care if we eat or not, they don't care about your sick children, they don't care about our tomorrows, they don't care about any one of us. We are not important to them, not in the slightest. So what exactly do we do? How do we remove them? How do we put somebody in power that will fight for us?

You are correct. Marches do nothing these days. My opinion is that if you don't like something like NAMA, then stage a mass occupation of the Dept of Finance. Hospitals? Occupy the Dept of Health.]

Just a simple idea. Or, as IvySlayer suggested, a general strike.

squod wrote: »

This is the quote of the century! Yesterday I heard Green TD, John Sh1thead, talking about Irelands' number one problem. Fukkin' climate change.

A great insight into what's top of voters agenda!

That is Ireland's #1 problem.

skelliser wrote: »

If 150,000 people showed up at the dail thats serious pressure, the greens would walk

Nearly that did show up on 21st February and nothing happened.

skelliser wrote: »

well ive been in contact with 2 people so far via pm here about starting something, also a few over in p.ie

need loads more to organise a protest, like reps in every single town and city etc.
a mass movement like

Don't forget, you need a clear set of aims as well.

Bob_Harris wrote: »

You do realise there is no concrete evidence of man made climate change, and this current shift in temperatures is a natural fluctuation of an ever changing climate?

Wrong! I think I'll trust the scientific institutions listed here over you on an important scientific matter like this.

But hey, I bet you feel all important and profound setting up your climate camp, with this great battle you have against the pure evil of climate.

Earlier in the thread a poster pointed out how Irish people rage against the government and then turn against anyone who really tries to do anything about it. Thanks for proving their point.

I'd like to personally thank you, and people like you, for the carbon tax which we will see shortly. A tax which will effectively increase the price of all products and services. Cheers.

Way to make an unsupported allegation! How am I in any way responsible for that tax? I'm not in the green party. I don't think that it's a good idea and I don't think it will help Ireland reduce its emissions. Nor was it designed to - it was designed to put more money in the gov coffers.

Dublin_Gunner

Húrin - climate change is NOT Irelands no. 1 problem.

I would imagine there would be quite a few things ahead of that on the list of problems that most people would agree with.

How about: health service, banking sector, public finance, corrupt politicians, infrastructure, unemployment, beer prices etc (not necessarily in that order).

I think, for the common people, climate change is WAY down the list of priorities. And in fairness, while we can potentially do our bit, Ireland is not going to stop 'climate change' on its own. Or stop the scaremongering, whichever way you look at it.

Húrin

Biggins wrote: »

For the record.
I am a married husband with 4 children.
I have no political affiliations with ANY party, NGO or political motivated movement.
I do help a few concerned parents to further fund and publicise the need for more support/equipment for the nurses and ground doctors for Crumlin Hospital in their specialist Cancer/Scoliosis/Leukaemia sections.
I am a pissed off person seeing what is (I think) wrong and although I am 100% willing to accept some of the pain to my bank account to get things back right in this country, I (and my wife) is not willing to sit idly by and let the rest of the nation suffer, be degraded, made a fool of, treated like dumb sheep, to be laughed at by money grabbing, intimidating thugs elected to the Dail!

I agree with your post but what is your plan for what to do? Rage alone will not change the country.

Cianos wrote: »

While I completely understand the frustration, I don't think improving bike lanes is a waste of money at all. Dublin infrastructure needs to be greatly improved. A better infrastructure means a much more efficient economy which means more money for health care in the long run.

Improving bike lanes isn't a waste of money. Spending €10 million on 7km of it is.

whycliff wrote: »

Really is 9m on a cycle path through dublin a priority at the moment, No i dont think so.

I agree. Cyclists can and do use roads which Dublin has plenty of already. I don't see why anyone thinks that cyclists need specialised bike tracks to use their vehicles.

Biggins

Just a few items that the media had been reporting recently but so far the public has failed to get up off their asses and act on...

Ministers on €140,000 triple pension deal

Politicians get pension payments on top of salary

Shame of Pensions on double for teacher-TD's

Ahern will profit by quitting politics...

Fury over pension perk for minister

Living the good life!
The many ways of making money as a local politician

Revealed: councillor pay surge hits €83m

Time to rein in councillors on expenses gravy train

TD expenses worth more than average wage

No expenses spared for ministers on US junkets

TDs to keep bonus pay despite budget row

'Disgraceful' TDs cling to teacher posts and perks

TDs who double job have their noses in the trough

And the infamous...
Harney's 6 day 'super bowl' trip costs taxpayer €190,000

Let us not also forget that with the national abuses by the clergy (who have yet to pay back to the state) that cost the state so far €25 Million!
Thats been quietly shushed up and they are hoping it will go away.

Or we paying for over priced drugs when they can be got cheaper else where, here.
(We pay 18 times UK prices)

...and if anyone actually in NAMA tries to speak out about things going wrong, well...
http://i29.tinypic.com/23j5nvt.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/25iluld.jpg

but back to the boys in the Dail:

there is their expenses and the crazy amounts of cash being blown away by our TDs...

http://i32.tinypic.com/256wso2.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/31690xw.jpg

But they can help themselves to a wine cellar at the department of Foreign Affairs...

http://i29.tinypic.com/2u4szzc.jpg

Not surprisingly, the public is not too happy...

http://i26.tinypic.com/jic7ro.jpg

Between that and the NAMA mess (and disaster to come) where they didn't allow for those already in financial trouble...

http://i27.tinypic.com/14uchhu.jpg


AND STILL THE IRISH PEOPLE WON'T GET UP OFF THEIR COLLECTIVE ASSES!!!

Just what the fcuk does it take! :mad:

---

O' and to answer an earlier query...

Only 12 TDs are now taking pay cut - (since then now gone down to five)

Húrin

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Húrin - climate change is NOT Irelands no. 1 problem.

I would imagine there would be quite a few things ahead of that on the list of problems that most people would agree with.

How about: health service, banking sector, public finance, corrupt politicians, infrastructure, unemployment, beer prices etc (not necessarily in that order).

I think, for the common people, climate change is WAY down the list of priorities. And in fairness, while we can potentially do our bit, Ireland is not going to stop 'climate change' on its own. Or stop the scaremongering, whichever way you look at it.

The state of the climate affects all of the above, particularly finance. If the climate is going haywire none of the above will be in working order.

Fair enough, climate change is not Ireland's most immediate problem but I maintain that it is the most important and serious issue if you take the long term view. As I am only 24 years old, I have to take the long term view.

Of course Ireland won't stop climate change on its own. But at the moment we're not even doing our bit, and we already have some of the highest emissions in the world per capita.

Captain Furball

Húrin wrote: »

The state of the climate affects all of the above, particularly finance. If the climate is going haywire none of the above will be in working order.

Fair enough, climate change is not Ireland's most immediate problem but I maintain that it is the most important and serious issue if you take the long term view. As I am only 24 years old, I have to take the long term view.

Of course Ireland won't stop climate change on its own. But at the moment we're not even doing our bit, and we already have some of the highest emissions in the world per capita.

If you think you can effect mother nature you are off you trolley.The sun controls it look it up.Carbon taxes no thanks.Sarkozy the prick is brining them in for the french already.Next it will be eu wide.

Húrin

Biggins wrote: »

AND STILL THE IRISH PEOPLE WON'T GET UP OFF THEIR COLLECTIVE ASSES!!!

Just what the fcuk does it take! :mad:

It will take a sharp cut in the standards of living of most of us to force action. Information doesn't change most people.

For the past 15 years our society has been hooked on the drugs of a comfortable lifestyle. Until that comfort is disturbed, they will not disturb the overly-comfortable.

Biggins

Húrin wrote: »

It will take a sharp cut in the standards of living of most of us to force action. Information doesn't change most people.

For the past 15 years our society has been hooked on the drugs of a comfortable lifestyle. Until that comfort is disturbed, they will not disturb the overly-comfortable.

Well come the next budget that loss of comfort should be coming...
...but there again, personally I suspect that FF will take another cowardly route and be selective and target those they know are less likely to get successfully organised in opposition and wallop them with the further bills, levy's, taxes and charges.
Speaking bluntly, they know they are screwed at the next general election but will try to hold onto their seats for as long as possible.
So some options will be watered down, others will be canceled due to lobbying by the like of Jackie H. O'Rea and they wishing to keep his like on side, etc to maintain a majority goverment.

No, they will rock the boat further at the next budget but will be surgical in their cuts as to not sink the boat that's keeping FF just about afloat in government!

Húrin

Captain Furball wrote: »

If you think you can effect mother nature you are off you trolley.The sun controls it look it up.

It's not about what I think. It's about what the relevant science says.