The return of Declan Ganley

Hitman Actual · 11-09-2009 2:31pm

skelliser wrote: »

well there is a suggestion over on p.ie from a poster who claims to be a journalist that the response on the doorstep form canvassers has been a pretty sturn no, in the major cites.
This is probably in lower class areas who dont bother voting on the day anyway.

It would be interesting to have a thread on canvassers responses so far here

libertas.ie is down, libertas.eu seems to be working fine, strange

Both sets of canvassers will just exaggerate the response they get on the doorsteps, tbh, trying to keep positive vibes associated with their respective campaigns.

As regards libertas.ie, when libertas.eu came into existence way back when, the original site was taken down straight away, iirc.

ei.sdraob · 11-09-2009 2:34pm

http://who.is/whois/libertas.ie/

domain: libertas.ie
descr: LIBERTAS SOLUTIONS LIMITED
descr: Body Corporate (Ltd,PLC,Company)
descr: Corporate Name
admin-c: ADN630-IEDR
tech-c: AAM456-IEDR
renewal: 10-July-2010
status: Active
nserver: ns1.libertas-solutions.com
nserver: ns2.libertas-solutions.com
source: IEDR

person: Steven Byrne
nic-hdl: ADN630-IEDR
source: IEDR

person: Blacknight.ie Hostmaster
nic-hdl: AAM456-IEDR
source: IEDR

something smells fishy here

there is no such company registered in Ireland

according to
http://www.cro.ie/search/

THE LIBERTAS FOUNDATION LIMITED 463759 MOYNE PARK TUAM CO GALWAY Company
THE LIBERTAS INSTITUTE LIMITED 428569 MOYNE PARK TUAM CO GALWAY Company
THE LIBERTAS PARTY LIMITED 463758 MOYNE PARK TUAM CO GALWAY Company
LIBERTAS TRADING 137006 19, PATRICK STREET, LIMERICK. Company

libertas.eu
http://www.eurid.eu/en/content/whois-result

Name libertas
Status REGISTERED (What this means)
Registered April 7, 2006
Last update November 18, 2008, 4:11 pm
Registrant
Name David Cochrane
Organisation Libertas
Language English
Address

Phone
Fax
Email

---

politics.ie

http://who.is/whois/politics.ie/

domain: politics.ie
descr: David Cochrane
descr: Sole Trader
descr: Registered Business Name
admin-c: DC429-IEDR
tech-c: AAM456-IEDR
renewal: 15-July-2011
status: Active
nserver: ns1.urljet199.com
nserver: ns2.urljet199.com
source: IEDR

person: David Cochrane
nic-hdl: DC429-IEDR
source: IEDR

person: Blacknight.ie Hostmaster
nic-hdl: AAM456-IEDR
source: IEDR

Spiritoftheseventies · 11-09-2009 2:40pm

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Bayviewclose two things

1. This thread is an offshoot of a discussion in the lisbon how you will vote thread, where FT announced declan ganley's return, we had the same *no its bullsh*t* comments as you. But Nesf asked us to move the discussion to another thread. So the topic sort of moved beyond that stage and unless some more news came out giving the bullsh*t radar some more information, we are discussing this taking FT's word. If it turns out false the only one to suffer from it will be FT.

2. I expressed the same doubts you did over the wall street journel being the first to break any news on it

So its not that I am taking everything at face value.

Anyway it seems the date has been pushed back to sunday for the return according to FT so we can either continue to hypothises or simply wait til then.

Appreciate the post. I know Ganley did not rule out Libertas getting involved but he has given assurances himself that he is not getting involved in Lisbon two for reasons already mentioned.

ei.sdraob · 11-09-2009 2:41pm

someone replied earlier

that there is no relation between politics.ie and libertas

then why the hell are both sites registered to the same guy?

PopeBuckfastXVI · 11-09-2009 2:42pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

Appreciate the post. I know Ganley did not rule out Libertas getting involved but he has given assurances himself that he is not getting involved in Lisbon two for reasons already mentioned.

We'll find out over the weekend what his assurances are worth, I suppose.

Euro_Kraut · 11-09-2009 2:49pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

someone replied earlier

that there is no relation between politics.ie and libertas

David Cochrane who own and runs politics.ie is the former communications director of Libertas. After Declan's defeat he wrote letter into the Irish Times stating that he was now going to vote YES to the Lisbon treaty on the basis that Ireland had secured a commissioner.

http://www.davidcochrane.ie/2009/06/letter-publishers-in-irishtimes-on-lisbon/

Euro_Kraut · 11-09-2009 2:52pm

Irish Times now running the 'speculation' story.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0911/breaking59.htm

Speculation is mounting today that Irish businessman and Libertas founder Declan Ganley is about to launch a fresh campaign against the second Lisbon Treaty referendum.

Mr Ganley, who had said he would not be involved in another No campaign after failing to win a seat to the European Parliament in June, said in an interview to the Wall Street Journal that it was “profoundly undemocratic” to hold a second vote on the treaty.

When contacted by The Irish Times today, Mr Ganley declined to confirm the reports, saying he was in meetings at the moment and would be available for comment on Monday.

His brother Sean, who helped him campaign for the European Parliament, also declined to comment on the speculation.

skelliser · 11-09-2009 2:53pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

someone replied earlier

that there is no relation between politics.ie and libertas

i said that i didnt think there was a link. my personal opinion like

looks like they guy who owns p.ie cochrane has changed his mind now anyway

ei.sdraob · 11-09-2009 2:55pm

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

David Cochrane who own and runs politics.ie is the former communications director of Libertas. After Declan's defeat he wrote letter into the Irish Times stating that he was now going to vote YES to the Lisbon treaty on the basis that Ireland had secured a commissioner.

http://www.davidcochrane.ie/2009/06/letter-publishers-in-irishtimes-on-lisbon/

very interesting, thank you

so that that issue cleared so

Spiritoftheseventies · 11-09-2009 3:23pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

very interesting, thank you

so that that issue cleared so

"One view is that you can change the minds of No voters by telling them that their views and concerns have been addressed. But how about telling them the truth? That their vote mattered, that it was important, and that it made a difference, it means that every member state, including Ireland gets to keep their commissioner. What can be more pro-European than making sure every member state has a seat at the top table?" What’s the one poster that’s missing? he asks. ‘‘Keep Our Commissioner – Vote Yes."

From David Cochrane in last sundays business post.
http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/a-spot-of-product-placement-of-the-unshameless-kind-44119.html

And it probably goes to shows you that Cochrane is an intelligent enough guy. But has anyones opinion on Libertas changed as a result. Hard to tell. Clearly their blue card scheme bombed and with or without a communications director their principles remain the same. We got to keep commissioner maybe as a result of Libertas making their voice heard. That would be implication i got from above text. But what it shows you is that each group lobbying for a No or yes vote does so with their own principles in mind. What is clear to me now is that there is not full consensus here. Would be nice if we had a party some where near the middle that could be fully trusted here.

marco_polo · 11-09-2009 3:26pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

someone replied earlier

that there is no relation between politics.ie and libertas

then why the hell are both sites registered to the same guy?

As far as I know David Cochrane was involved with Libertas until sometime after the previous referendum and has now left the organisation.

EDIT Never mind better info that way ^^

meglome · 11-09-2009 4:25pm

meglome wrote: »

I have a serious question which maybe you can answer for me. Is the information on this poster actually true?

Because honestly I've never seen a campaign that has so many dirty tricks in it outside of an American one.

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

In my opinion it is true. It's actually a very large placard not a poster.

The launch is Sunday btw.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

So that's a no then.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the scary prediction on this poster could possibly happen if you assume that the EU is run by evil people who spend all their time trying to steal Irish freedom and fish but otherwise won't. Am I close?

I have to say given the many opinions of yours I've read in here FT I'm not holding out much hope of it being actually true. I'm with Sam Vimes on this one.

meglome · 11-09-2009 4:29pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

someone replied earlier

that there is no relation between politics.ie and libertas

then why the hell are both sites registered to the same guy?

Certainly would explain an awful lot about P.ie.

FutureTaoiseach · 11-09-2009 5:02pm

meglome wrote: »

I have to say given the many opinions of yours I've read in here FT I'm not holding out much hope of it being actually true. I'm with Sam Vimes on this one.

George Hook has just mentioned it on The Right Hook. TodayFM have also confirmed it just now. It's true.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 11-09-2009 5:06pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

George Hook has just mentioned it on The Right Hook. TodayFM have also confirmed it just now. It's true.

I more or less endorse this:

bayviewclose wrote: »

For Ganley to enter at this late stage having stated his intention not to put his name fortune following his Euro election would make him look very stupid. He said on numerous occasions that he would stand by what happened in Euro elections. He had no mandate. he accepted that. What seems to be the implication now is he ignoring the lack of mandate to run a shot gun campaign with three weeks to go.

Sam Vimes · 11-09-2009 5:07pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

George Hook has just mentioned it on The Right Hook. TodayFM have also confirmed it just now. It's true.

I think he was talking about the slogan that's going to be on the poster, not the claim that Ganley will be involved

Spiritoftheseventies · 11-09-2009 5:33pm

Sam Vimes wrote: »

I think he was talking about the slogan that's going to be on the poster, not the claim that Ganley will be involved

To clear this up. Today FM quoted this Wall Street Journal where Ganley expressed concern that will of people had not been respected. Still no official statement from Ganley. Newstalk and Today FM both in same building so it is to be expected they would have same story. Lets just wait to see if Ganley makes an official statement.

FutureTaoiseach · 11-09-2009 5:34pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I more or less endorse this:

He has a mandate from the 100,000 people (5.4%) who voted for Libertas in the Euro elections. That's more than double the 2002 PD vote when they won 8 seats. Evidently, there was a clamour for him to come back having performed - in historical terms - very well for a first time party in their first election. A better transfer pattern from SF in NW would have elected Ganley.

PopeBuckfastXVI · 11-09-2009 5:41pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

He has a mandate from the 100,000 people (5.4%) who voted for Libertas in the Euro elections. That's more than double the 2002 PD vote when they won 8 seats. Evidently, there was a clamour for him to come back having performed - in historical terms - very well for a first time party in their first election. A better transfer pattern from SF in NW would have elected Ganley.

The revisionism begins. Hard done by he was.

He failed under PR, which is the fairest voting system in the world. A better transfer pattern from SF would have meant SF voters wanted to give him a preference, they didn't.

He's an unelected, rejected nobody who has a bit of cash and an opinion and feels he deserves to be heard.

I hope the press give him all the airtime his position deserves: none.

ei.sdraob · 11-09-2009 5:43pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

He has a mandate from the 100,000 people (5.4%) who voted for Libertas in the Euro elections. That's more than double the 2002 PD vote when they won 8 seats. Evidently, there was a clamour for him to come back having performed - in historical terms - very well for a first time party in their first election. A better transfer pattern from SF in NW would have elected Ganley.

Yes he has performed relatively well

which is no surprised considering he easily outspend all of the other candidates in area combined, hell his ads were everywhere, the guy must have spend a fortune on adwords alone since his ads plastered whole of this site and other irish sites.

but he has no mandate from anyone as he wasnt elected

he lost, obviously he is incapable of accepting the answer from the people in a democratic election

so its a bit rich from him or you to claim that

"that will of people had not been respected"

dont you think?

and since you are so close to him

can you please point to the policies of Libertas

its been how many months since the election? and still no one knows what their policies are!

I cant believe so many people voted for someone with no policies (then again people did vote Dana in before

)

/

Spiritoftheseventies · 11-09-2009 6:24pm

Yes nothing from RTE on Ganley entering campaign. In words of Sean Whelan nothing to report from No Campaign.

FutureTaoiseach · 11-09-2009 6:27pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes nothing from RTE on Ganley entering campaign. In words of Sean Whelan nothing to report from No Campaign.

Email from John McGuirk says the launch is on Sunday.

Even so, isn't it amiss and a violation of the McKenna and Coughlan judgements for RTE to deny equal airtime for the no side? They have just given the a number of "yes" groups (IBEC, FG etc.)airtime on Six One and have made no mention whatsoever of the no campaign other than one "Eirigi" poster. It's blatent bias. A coach and horses is being driven through out Constitution, and specifically of the guarantee of equality for all citizens, enshrined in Article 40 of the Constitution. I can see another McKenna/Coughlan type challenge after this referendum.

skelliser · 11-09-2009 6:33pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

but he has no mandate from anyone as he wasnt elected

/

who, brian cowen?!;)

Sam Vimes · 11-09-2009 6:34pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Email from John McGuirk says the launch is on Sunday.

Even so, isn't it amiss and a violation of the McKenna and Coughlan judgements for RTE to deny equal airtime for the no side? They have just given the a number of "yes" groups airtime on Six One and have made no mention whatsoever of the no campaign other than one "Eirigi" poster. It's blatent bias. A coach and horses is being driven through out Constitution, and specifically of the guarantee of equality for all citizens, enshrined in Article 40 of the Constitution. I can see another McKenna/Coughlan type challenge after this referendum.

The bias is towards giving more air time to reputable organisations. The distinct lack of reputable organisations on the no side is hardly their fault

FutureTaoiseach · 11-09-2009 6:36pm

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The bias is towards giving more air time to reputable organisations. The distinct lack of reputable organisations on the no side is hardly their fault

In other words, members of the upper and upper-middle classes, who just happen to be (according to the Irish Times polls) the biggest supporters of the Treaty.

Dinner · 11-09-2009 6:37pm

skelliser wrote: »

who, brian cowen?!;)

Brian Cowen was elected, unless Offaly gave the wrong the name.

If you mean as Taoiseach, then thats not how it works. We don't elect a Taoiseach, the Dail does.

FutureTaoiseach knows this but for some reason thanked you post in agreement...

Sam Vimes · 11-09-2009 6:37pm

skelliser wrote: »

who, brian cowen?!;)

Ironic that FutureTaoiseach thanked a post suggesting that someone who was elected has no mandate while saying that someone who wasn't has one

FutureTaoiseach · 11-09-2009 6:37pm

Dinner wrote: »

Brian Cowen was elected, unless Offaly gave the wrong the name.

If you mean as Taoiseach, then thats not how it works. We don't elect a Taoiseach, the Dail does.

FutureTaoiseach knows this but for some reason thanked you post in agreement...

Elected by Laois-offaly - yes. But I question his legitimacy given we were clearly voting in 2007 on the understanding that Bertie would be Taoiseach.

Sam Vimes wrote:

Ironic that FutureTaoiseach thanked a post suggesting that someone who was elected has no mandate while saying that someone who wasn't has one

Which is easier - getting elected in a 5-seater or a 3-seater?

PopeBuckfastXVI · 11-09-2009 6:39pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Email from John McGuirk says the launch is on Sunday.

Even so, isn't it amiss and a violation of the McKenna and Coughlan judgements for RTE to deny equal airtime for the no side? They have just given the a number of "yes" groups (IBEC, FG etc.)airtime on Six One and have made no mention whatsoever of the no campaign other than one "Eirigi" poster. It's blatent bias. A coach and horses is being driven through out Constitution, and specifically of the guarantee of equality for all citizens, enshrined in Article 40 of the Constitution. I can see another McKenna/Coughlan type challenge after this referendum.

Who elected Ganley to represent the 'no' side?

The only election I saw him take part in saw him rejected by over 85% of the constituency.

He can pay for his advertising if he wants it.

Dinner · 11-09-2009 6:40pm

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Elected by Laois-offaly - yes. But I question his legitimacy given we were clearly voting in 2007 on the understanding that Bertie would be Taoiseach.

It was no secret that Bertie wouldn't stay as Taoiseach for the full term, and everybody knew that it was near certain that Cowen would get the job.

It still makes no sense to thank a post implying that Cowen wasn't elected when he very clearly was, both by his constituents and by the Dail.

The return of Declan Ganley

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