Non-Payment for Website Development - What to do ???

gibson_lp

Hi,

I was asked by a friend to develop a website for small company - a non-profit company, which meant I did not need to be registered for VAT when submitting my invoice. Despite numerous requests and reminders for payment, I have heard absolutely nothing. My friend has also since been made redundant..

The site is now live since July, with plenty of hits and activity through the 'contact us' web form etc.. They have also pushed the site through all of their marketing and brochures.

Any advice on my next move, i.e.
- take the site down altogether ?
- place an 'Under Construction' page ?
- place a page 'Site suspended for non-payment' ?

Is there any legal implications I should be aware of before taking the site down, as they own the domain name etc.. Although, as I built it through iWeb, I have ALL of the source code, images etc.

Thanks guys.

Joseph

Did you have a contract with the company?

If not, then by all means take down the website, and perhaps even go as far as to put a non payment notice on the home page - they'll move quick enough.

GoneShootin

gibson_lp wrote: »

- place a page 'Site suspended for non-payment' ?

^^

ALWAYS take a 20 - 50% deposit up front to help cushion to blow of these incidents.

Joseph

Some references for you for future jobs etc:

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/bulletproof-web-design-contract/
http://www.zenfulcreations.com/resources/worksheets/design_contract.htm
http://esdev.net/web-design-contracts-the-how-and-whys-of-contracts/
http://freelancefolder.com/do-you-need-a-contract-for-freelance-work/

gibson_lp

It was a very informal agreement with no contract.. But you're right of course, live and learn and all that..

Cheers.

sineadw

Have you emailed them and told them you'd take the site down? I had just this issue a while back - was emailing a client for weeks and nothing. I threatened to take it down and within the hour had a response.. still no bloody payment but we're getting there...

Eoin

Deaddude wrote: »

If not, then by all means take down the website, and perhaps even go as far as to put a non payment notice on the home page - they'll move quick enough.

I wouldn't put up a non-payment notice first, it comes across as a little vindictive, could harm their operations considerably and could ruin whatever is left of the relationship.

Put a "down for maintenance page" maybe, and to be nice a contact name and email address / phone number. If that doesn't work, then suspend the hosting.

a non-profit company, which meant I did not need to be registered for VAT when submitting my invoice.

How does that work? I know that charities can't claim back VAT, but does that mean a vendor can not charge it if they would normally charge it to a company?

les succulent ducks

Hi

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate circumstance.

Take the site down straight away. They haven't paid you and are taking you on a wild goose chase!!

In future, remember to collect 50% when client signs contract. This way you are guaranteed that the client will have interest in giving you the remainder.

<snip>

p

Do this professionally, seriously don't listen to some of this advice on this thread about shutting off the site immediately. Lack of payment is a problem in these times, and there's no reason to ruin a relationship because of it. You just need to be strong, professional, and become the loudest voice in the room. You sound like you're fairly young and/or inexperienced at this, so it's very easy for people to put you on the back-burner if they're having cashflow problems.

Be professional, strong and don't make any empty threats. Slowly and surely make steps towards taking the site down. Hopefully that will be avoided, and if they pay then you can continue a working relationship with them.

Step 1. Send an overdue payment notice letting them know that payment is overdue the standard 30 days notice period. State that they have 7 days notice to pay or the site will be turned off.
Step 2. Wait and see if they pay you.
Step 3. After 7 days, turn the site off (blank site) and call and email the client stating they site has been turned off due to overdue payment. Tell them politely, but firmly that the site will be turned on again upon receipt of payment. Explain this is standard practice and nothing personal.
Step 4. If payment is still not received, put up a very small notice stating that site is down due to overdue payment.

Hopefully that will sort them out.

My main suggestion is have everything in writing. Put notices in PDFs and send in paper copies. Make everything very formal, polite and strong. Don't make it emotional, make it factual as if someone in the billing department was just doing a routine check, and don't make any empty threats.


Also, regarding the VAT. It's completely legitimate to operate as a sole-trader and not be registered for VAT. In which case, you just give them a straight invoice of a figure and they just treat it normally. I've never had a problem doing that for lots of invoices to many different clients. Don't apologise or worry about that at all.

Good luck with it all!

sticker

I have had two simular experiences this year alone.

I previously NEVER launched a site before payment, but in one instance I developed a site for a family friend - assuming it would be a solid paying account. Needless to say it wasn't...

My advise in your case - DROP the site NOW. If you have made the effort to communicate and they have ignored it, take the site down. Or at least send an email that if payment is not met within 24 hours, the site will be removed with a 'non-payment' page. I know this sounds harsh, and it's something I would have never done a year ago, but with the quota of peopole out there comfortable taking the ****, You simply have to.

I have also found that a somewhat snotty email or phone call (still keeping it professional obviously) DOES get results. Some people will comfortably sleep at night knowing they have essentially stole a service. I know this sounds somewhat negitave, but my experiences of a lot of people from all walks of life operate this way and as such has led me to a very guarded approach to payment. A lot of self employed friends in other industries have the same experience. I don't think its a recession reality. Some people simply operate under the mindset - if you can get away with it, do... It downright shameful.

Drop the site - TODAY. They don't deserve to profit from your efforts.

Rant over!

sticker

p wrote: »

Do this professionally, seriously don't listen to some of this advice on this thread about shutting off the site immediately. Lack of payment is a problem in these times, and there's no reason to ruin a relationship because of it. You just need to be strong, professional, and become the loudest voice in the room. You sound like you're fairly young and/or inexperienced at this, so it's very easy for people to put you on the back-burner if they're having cashflow problems.

Be professional, strong and don't make any empty threats. Slowly and surely make steps towards taking the site down. Hopefully that will be avoided, and if they pay then you can continue a working relationship with them.

Step 1. Send an overdue payment notice letting them know that payment is overdue the standard 30 days notice period. State that they have 7 days notice to pay or the site will be turned off.
Step 2. Wait and see if they pay you.
Step 3. After 7 days, turn the site off (blank site) and call and email the client stating they site has been turned off due to overdue payment. Tell them politely, but firmly that the site will be turned on again upon receipt of payment. Explain this is standard practice and nothing personal.
Step 4. If payment is still not received, put up a very small notice stating that site is down due to overdue payment.

Hopefully that will sort them out.

My main suggestion is have everything in writing. Put notices in PDFs and send in paper copies. Make everything very formal, polite and strong. Don't make it emotional, make it factual as if someone in the billing department was just doing a routine check, and don't make any empty threats.


Also, regarding the VAT. It's completely legitimate to operate as a sole-trader and not be registered for VAT. In which case, you just give them a straight invoice of a figure and they just treat it normally. I've never had a problem doing that for lots of invoices to many different clients. Don't apologise or worry about that at all.

Good luck with it all!

I see your logic, but I do not think it applies in this case... They have an active site since July and since that time ignored all communciation.

THEY have already "runined the relationship" as you suggest, The OP should not concern himself with a mannerly approach at this stage. It's a total no-brainer to remove the site. In my experience, once the proper polite business approach doesn't work (which he has exhausted) the harsh approach is the only option available.

Companies/individuals that will ignore payment requested will not wake up one morning and decide to pay - especially if they have the use of the site.

HandWS LTD

I'd recommend to stick by "Sticker" advice. You have been trying to contact them on numerous occasions without payment since JULY. You should thell them that the site will be down in 24 hrs unless payment is recieved. Normally you should not put the site up until payment is recieved. It sounds like you are honest and trustworthy, there are people out there that do these kind of things, so you have to be professional and recieve the payment before the site is live. That way, you won't fall into their trap.

mneylon

If you don't get paid cut them off

All this talk about "ruining relationships" is rubbish

If you provided a service you should be paid for it

If you went into a supermarket and filled your trolley you'd expect to pay - why do people think that "online" is any different?

A LOT of people are using the "downturn" as an excuse to either not pay or to delay payments

One of the biggest problems for Irish business is getting paid on time and it's a vicious circle

Once you accept that your client pays you X days late you will end up being late paying one of your suppliers and so and so on

sticker

I was only discussing this exact type of sitaution with a friend last night. He runs a small business also, and the total HEARTBREAK and stress that ensues when you try your absolute best to provide a solid service only to be rewarded with silence and non-payment.

I understand this is the way of things - maybe it's always has been like this, but since I started my own business, my faith in my fellow man/woman has been serverly tarnished. The recession excuse is so tired now. If you are commisioned to do work, payment should be forthcoming...

The turth of the matter is this - be mannerly, be professional, push the boat out - but ALWAYS be aware of payment protocols; Create a set that works for you and STICK to them. Clients will rush you into launching eary with any number of reasons. If they're worth their salt, they pay when the service is provided.

p

I think you should give someone some notice before you shut off the site. Just because this person hasn't paid you does not make them, a bad person, an asshole, a lier etc... They're a non-profit and it's difficult times. They may well refer you on to future business and there's no reason to just burn the whole relationship.

Blacknight - you guys send notices saying if you don't pay in X days your site will be cut off, right. That's all i'm suggesting.

Definitely give them some notice. If 7 days is too long, sure try 24 hours, but I think the whole situation would be much better down the road if you serve them notice and they pay before their site was ever cut off. No need to be a sap, but think about long term.


Good luck with whatever approach you decide to do. Let us know how you get on!

sticker

p wrote: »

I think you should give someone some notice before you shut off the site. Just because this person hasn't paid you does not make them, a bad person, an asshole, a lier etc... They're a non-profit and it's difficult times. They may well refer you on to future business and there's no reason to just burn the whole relationship.

Blacknight - you guys send notices saying if you don't pay in X days your site will be cut off, right. That's all i'm suggesting.

Definitely give them some notice. If 7 days is too long, sure try 24 hours, but I think the whole situation would be much better down the road if you serve them notice and they pay before their site was ever cut off. No need to be a sap, but think about long term.


Good luck with whatever approach you decide to do. Let us know how you get on!

Sorry P, I have to pull you up on that post, It is irrelevant that the client is a non-profit organisation, they have IGNORED all attempts at communciation and are using a service for four months they didn't pay for. They could be The Dublin Simon Community and I'd still say the same... NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

They have been given every change to settle or at least approach the OP and explain a cash folow issue. They HAVEN'T.

As I said above, give 24 hour notice and then dump the site.

mneylon

p wrote: »

Blacknight - you guys send notices saying if you don't pay in X days your site will be cut off, right. That's all i'm suggesting.

Ok - because I've seen a lot of people in the past doing the entire "damaging the relationship" dance - which I think is inane

If a client doesn't pay then they're no longer a client

CamperMan

Like Blacknight said... cut them off, simple as that, no excuses... also, make sure that you have Terms & Conditions stating that "service will be terminated for non payment", it works for me.

p

Any update on this?

sticker

p wrote: »

Any update on this?

+1!

pauldiv

Same old story that comes up regularly in web design forums.

Next time, scope out the project during the initial customer meetings and then write up the project brief. This includes details of each phase of the project and what it is you are expected to deliver to the client.

This should also include your quote for the entire project and stipulate what interim payments are to make to yourself for the work done and when these payments are due.

There is nothing wrong in asking for payment for your labour.

As for what to do, any of the suggestions from the posters above would, I am sure, have a remarkable effect on these stingy people and spur them into action.

Their behaviour suggests that they are taking the piss.

I hope it works out for you and that you learn from this experience.

Bon Chance!