How hard can it be, eh?

Izoard

Sadly, the volcano has piped down, so normal service resuming next week.

Have been getting good swimming blocks in and am now comfortable at 84m~85m for 3.8km.

In another first, the weight is starting to drop as well. Given that I have been at 90-92kg for the past 5 years, irrespective of how much/ little training I've been doing, I was surprised to see 88kg showing up on a recent trip to the scales.

It's been some time since I've been 13st X, so maybe this IM craic is doing some good after all...:)

Izoard

Good hilly bike ride today. 119km covering Glencree, Sally Gap and Wicklow Gap.

Was sorely tempted to give Kippure* a crack, but time didn't allow.

* This is probably my favourite bike climb...3.3km of increasing suffering with 20%+ gradients near the top.
Super views on a good day and even when enveloped by cloud, it has a great mystical feel to it.
At 758m, it is about as high as you can get in Ireland on a road bike, AFAIK...

metal dog

Izoard wrote: »

Good hilly bike ride today. 119km covering Glencree, Sally Gap and Wicklow Gap.

Sounds good (after having done it of course);)

Izoard

A buddy of mine just completed IM South Africa in a very respectable 12 44.

He likened the 1st 5km of the IM marathon to the last 5k of a regular marathon:D, with it getting harder from there....

Also, vomited twice on the swim as there was a healthy sea swell...nice start to the day, eh?

Izoard

Made a long over due trip to the gym this morning for a bit of weights & core work.

Managed to grid a piece of enamel off my front tooth trying to complete a squat set...the definition of "bad form":)

griffin100

He likened the 1st 5km of the IM marathon to the last 5k of a regular marathon, with it getting harder from there....

Dont be saying stuff like that. I know in my head that the bit of a run at the end of the IM is going to be tough, but when I imagaine myself finishing I seem to go from visualising myself getting off the bike to almost immediately crossing the finish line. I've been really good at getting my mind to ignore how tough the run is actually gonne be and how long 26 miles is. Posts like your last one don't help:D

Izoard

Bit of a weekend washout....coughing my guts up for the entire weekend (think the hailstones on the Wicklow Gap last weekend were a factor), so the best laid plans and all that....

Wheezed my way to an hour on the tri bike today, as it will be the last chance to spin on it before Sperrin next week.

Izoard

Drove up to Cookstown with my tri buddy – took a spin out to Lough Fea…great setting. Back to the Glenavon Hotel – wedding in full swing and we were tempted to turn left and blag our way in, but passed– must be getting old!
Did sneak a couple of pints in though J
My wheezy chest has improved much, so overdosed on whatever I could find, and off to bed.

Saturday:
Split transition means people were going back and forth, so we weren’t ready to go until 9:20 or so. Looks like it is going to be a clear day, with some wind and 14 C temp.

Swim:
The rocks on the shore and in the lake, made the run start impractical, so we started from waist deep in icy water.

Horn goes and away we go...within 100 meters, I’m seeing stars!
A combination of the cold on my head and chest, and too many meds had me in a panic.
Managed to slowly get the heart rate down and things began to improve. We swam the length of the lake up and down and next thing I’m getting pulled out at the finish as I can’t stand up due to the stones.
Check the watch…happy with mid 40s, but 33mins?
Was taking it handy, so my initial reaction was (remains) that the swim was short.

Bike:
Transition 1 was right beside the swim exit, so not much barefoot running required.
Although the day was nice an sunny, I was paranoid about the cold, so donned run tights and a UA Cold Gear top for the bike.
A 2 lap course, the first 10km were great – rolling downhill to Cookstown – only downside was watching one of my bananas spiralling out of the bento box L Make the turn to make our way towards Draperstown and the wind kicks in big time. Time to get some nutrition in. Reach for the 2nd banana and am happily peeling it when I hit a pothole – f*uk! – my last glimpse was of a gravel-studded fruit waving good-bye.
I have a problem with cramps in long distance events and have found bananas a decent cure, so this was beginning to occupy me.
I had a couple of nature Valley bars with me, so they kept me going and dipped into a couple of run gels.

This headwind stretch seemed to go on forever (missing a turn didn’t help), so it was great to hit the hills after Draperstown.

After the first loop it looked like the sub-6 hour might be on, if I kept it up.

Over the course of the 2 laps I was passed by 9 or 10 guys (the quality of tri bikes these days is incredible…) and only passed 3, so felt I was going slow.

Off the bike in 3.09 so feeling good.

Run:
Shed some of the Arctic gear as it was nice and warm and set off on the 4 out & back laps around the lake.
Loved the run – very busy, with passing people 8 times and very well stocked with provisions (got my hands on a few bananas at the turnaround –nice!).

Knew I was sub-6, so was picking out punters to try to catch up with to keep me motivated.
Also, at first run sighting, tri-buddy was about 10 mins behind and the usual panic crossed my mind- he’s looking good, might catch me!

The laps ticked down and then done.

5:38:58 Garmin/ 5:39:00 race clock.

Run done in 1:50 what as the same as my half split at Connemara, so well chuffed with the endurance holding up.

Tri buddy made it home in 5hr 55 (previous 6hr 40), so he’s cooking nicely for IM CH as well.

Cracking burger accompanied by some thumping Euro pop at the finish.

I think it was a great debut for this event (although there were mixed feelings on the bike course from some) and assuming they can get this on the annual calendar, a great prep race for IM.

RedB

Well done Izoard - excellent time.

catweazle

Nice time Izoard, the 1.50 run off the bike is very impressive

shotgunmcos

Good Stuff Izoard. Holding your flat HM split off the bike is great running. Thanks for the report too. Nice result for an early HIM and mid IM cycle and I'm sure you were well up there. Well done on the PB also!

griffin100

Well sone Izoard - sorry to have missed you on the day. Was that you I passed coming out of cookstown on the first bike lap? I was going to shout but I though if it wasn't you i might have frigthened the life out of some poor random punter by screaming BOARDSIE at him:D Well done on the run, my run was a disaster, I'm very jealous:p

Macanri

Great Stuff Izoard, that's some going. Well done.

Izoard

griffin100 wrote: »

Was that you I passed coming out of cookstown on the first bike lap?

Probably...If it was someone head to toe in full arctic black gear cursing another dropped banana, then yes:)

Great bike from your good self!

There were a lot of people suffering on the run with the hills & heat, but I tend to hold up OK on the run split - years of junk marathons have some benefit, I guess...

Izoard

Back to the day job and with a gap in the ash cloud, I'm camped in Dubai at the moment, so minimal training week ahead.

I will be getting pretty intimate with the hotel treadmill however...

Next up is Tri Athy but this is kind of redundant since the Sperrin HIM came on the scene, so the main focus over the next few weeks will be prep for the Wicklow 200....

Abhainn

Very solid performance in the HIM Izoard especially after been ill. Your in good form.

shotgunmcos

Izoard wrote: »

... so the main focus over the next few weeks will be prep for the Wicklow 200....

The W200 is my first sportive. Any tips? What you doing to prep? I have the Schull Sprint Tri the day before so I'm hoping to sit into a nice bunch and get pulled along... I'm not a lazy so and so though, I'll do my share of work

Izoard

shotgunmcos wrote: »

The W200 is my first sportive. Any tips? What you doing to prep? I have the Schull Sprint Tri the day before so I'm hoping to sit into a nice bunch and get pulled along... I'm not a lazy so and so though, I'll do my share of work

Any tips? Leave the Tri bike at home:)

I genearlly find the combo of the hills and 200km, make it a pretty tough day out for me, but looking forward to it.
Have done the 200 a few times, but in recent years I've just done the 100 - completly different experience

The route looks a little "easier" this year, but make sure you have something in the tank for the Slieve Maan/ Shay Elliott double which comes in the 2nd half - nasty!

The feeding stations can be hit and miss in terms of what's available, so bring some €€€ as back up, as well as your normal bike nutrition.

Will keep an eye out for you at the start, as I suspect we won't be crossing paths on the course:)

interested

shotgunmcos wrote: »

The W200 is my first sportive. Any tips? What you doing to prep? I have the Schull Sprint Tri the day before so I'm hoping to sit into a nice bunch and get pulled along... I'm not a lazy so and so though, I'll do my share of work

to echo Izoard's advice ... unless youre doing IM use a road bike ... TT bikes tend to stick out like a sore thumb and depending on what time you leave in the morning you'll need to be quick on the brakes since some bike handling in the groups can be a real eye opener at times.

My tip ... eat and drink early ... keep eating and drinking regularly ... when you dont feel like it eat and drink - if there are queues at the stops just go to a local shop - eat and sit down at the rest stops.

The dirty double of Slieve Maan and Shay Elliot always deserve a bit of respect at that end of the day with K's on the legs.

griffin100

to echo Izoard's advice ... unless youre doing IM use a road bike ... TT bikes tend to stick out like a sore thumb and depending on what time you leave in the morning you'll need to be quick on the brakes since some bike handling in the groups can be a real eye opener at times.

Any tips? Leave the Tri bike at home

I'm planning on doing this one as well but I'm undecided as to which bike to use. I worried that my TT bike with its 39/53 - 11/25 gearing is not going to get me up the big hills easily. My road bike has a compact double so should I use that instead? Or am I being a wimp............

Izoard

griffin100 wrote: »

I'm planning on doing this one as well but I'm undecided as to which bike to use. I worried that my TT bike with its 39/53 - 11/25 gearing is not going to get me up the big hills easily. My road bike has a compact double so should I use that instead? Or am I being a wimp............

I would really struggle on some of the climbs with my tri set up, so would always favour the road bike (with the ahem, triple....).

However, for safety reasons, it is probaby better to leave the tri bike at home.
Lots of bunch work in the first half, so you are unlikely to be anywhere near your tri bars...

asimonov

Good going in sperrin, i don't know much about swimming or cycling but that's a great HM time after 4 hours of activity. once this IM thing is over, you should take a shot at a sub 1:30 HM.

Izoard

A gap in the small people's swimming schedule meant a rare "free" Sat morning.

However, the deferred Sperrin celebration dinner took place last night, so was a little ropey falling out of the bed at 6:30am.

Anyway, was gagging to have a crack at Kippure on the bike. 22km from my door to the summit, with 18.5km uphill...Alpine!:)

Road surface wasn't too bad after the winter and lots of deer for company on the way up, bloody freezing though.

Managed to slow to 6.2 kph at one stage near the top where it is 20%+ gradient:eek:.

Did about 70km total.

Plan to get out again tomorrow, but I suspect the outing to the RDS tonight may create some conflict there...

TriBar

Hey Izoard, presume you enjoyed the great win with a few too many buds (4th in a row) in the RDS and couldn't make the Sunday cycle.;)

You read like you could do IM CH tomorrow. The Sperrin performance was pretty impressive.

Izoard

TriBar wrote: »

Hey Izoard, presume you enjoyed the great win with a few too many buds (4th in a row) in the RDS and couldn't make the Sunday cycle.;)

You read like you could do IM CH tomorrow. The Sperrin performance was pretty impressive.

How right you are about missing the Sunday spin.:)

Was reasonably well behaved at the RDS and was up alright, but the little fella had a rough night, so I stuck around to see that he was on the mend.

Getting very familar with the treadmill these days...a crying shame when it is 38 C outside, but such is life.

Getting kind of worried about the W200...have only done 1 100km+ ride and the next few weekends are a minefield of family and social events.

At least the weather appears to be warming up at home...looking forward to binning the arctic gear for the next cycle!

Izoard

Sneaky Italians? - check.
Dodgy Germans? - check

For some reason, however, I felt that the American's got a bit of a raw deal from the European authorities on the doping front. Maybe, they couldn't get Lance, so they'll nail the other guys.
The spirited defence of both Tyler Hamilton and Landis, gave me the illusion of the good guys battling the evil Europeans.

Landis' revelations make for utterly depressing reading.

At least now, I won't be trying to pick out the good guys doing extraordinary things on the side of a mountain...:mad:

Izoard

Very patchy training at the moment:

Good example: Sunday bed at 2am, up at 5:30am for a 3 hour bike spin:(

However, I managed to chop a wedge off my pool PB for 4km - now down to 1hr 25m 49....
Happy with that, but it makes a mockery of the swim times at the Sperrin HIM.

Will try to get 2 short-ish early morning cycles in over the weekend, and that will be it as regards hill work for the W200.
I'm really not looking forward to that, as I know my lack of distance work will catch up with me at the start of Slieve Maan.

I'm looking at TriAthy the weekend before and thinking that it is a bit of a waste of a day, as I'm cashing in a bundle of brownie points in return for a ~2hr 45 work out.

The joys of Ironman, eh?:)

RedB

Izoard wrote: »

I'm looking at TriAthy the weekend before and thinking that it is a bit of a waste of a day, as I'm cashing in a bundle of brownie points in return for a ~2hr 45 work out.

The joys of Ironman, eh?:)

Could be worse. You could be cashing them in for a 3hr+ workout over the same distance .

Well done on the early morning cycles and the swim PB.

griffin100

However, I managed to chop a wedge off my pool PB for 4km - now down to 1hr 25m 49....
Happy with that, but it makes a mockery of the swim times at the Sperrin HIM.

I read one race report which suggested a 1,700m course, which would fit in with my swim times from Valentia, assuming I held my 750m pace over the 1,700m (which is quite likely as I only have one pace:D).

I'm looking at TriAthy the weekend before and thinking that it is a bit of a waste of a day, as I'm cashing in a bundle of brownie points in return for a ~2hr 45 work out.

I'm thinking along the same lines.

The joys of Ironman, eh?

Joy? Where?

Izoard

RedB wrote: »

Could be worse. You could be cashing them in for a 3hr+ workout over the same distance .

Well done on the early morning cycles and the swim PB.

Good spot...getting cocky now. Olympic? How hard can it be, eh?:)

Did 2 40 last year, but it could easily be 3hr+....

Izoard

griffin100 wrote: »

Joy? Where?

I'd kinda agree at the moment...trying to juggle everything else, has taken the fun out of it over the past couple of weeks. Hopefully Athy and the eh, W200 will give me some inspiration.

Also, seem to be managing too many of the "you are heading out training AGAIN?" statements at the moment:rolleyes:

TriBar

When do you get to spend Brownie points. I seem to collect them but never redeem them!

You could cycle to Athy and back and still do the OLY for the crack! Then it would be a decent spin. :rolleyes:

Izoard

TriBar wrote: »

You could cycle to Athy and back and still do the OLY for the crack! Then it would be a decent spin. :rolleyes:

Only if I could wear the wetsuit on the bike...should be good practice for Zurich!

asimonov

Just looking at the swim / bike / run challenge there - savage numbers, well done. You'll surely smash your time from last year's triathy. Best of luck.

Izoard

asimonov wrote: »

Just looking at the swim / bike / run challenge there - savage numbers, well done. You'll surely smash your time from last year's triathy. Best of luck.

Cheers...the swim was very easy last year as it was in flood, so I'm not sure I'll be troubling last years time. Also if the run is the full 10km this time, no chance:)

Izoard

Had the epic cross country drive from Gorey as a warm up, but got there in loads of time.

Swim start was held up as 5 lads struggled to remove the scaffolding for the water.

As soon as a wet-suit clad Peter Kern entered the fray, things seemed to happen!

Swim:
Off in wave 2, and was at the front when the hooter went off. A foot in the face after 30 secs or so knocked the goggles off - standard tri fare really.
However about 3 mins in, I got a kick to the temple that had me seeing stars:(
I was all over the place for a couple of mins, before things started to come back to normal.
By the time I hit the turnaround, there were few around me, so I knew I was near the back. As an added bonus, my super-fly Aquasphere goggles are fog-magnets - I meant to bin them last year, but arrived in Tyrone with them and they weren't too bad (probably the cold up there...), so gave them another chance here - red card performance.

Finished the swim in a poor 31:54, nearly 3mins down on last year.
So much for setting a PB:mad:

Bike:
Lap 1 was great, but by lap 2 there were a lot of people on the course and there were a couple of nasty accidents. Drafting continues to be an issue, but not as bad as you might expect with the crowds.
Felt good on both laps and passed more than passed me - unusual circumstances in my position.
Time: 1:14:24 vs 1:19:21 from last year.
I wasn't aware I'd pulled back much time on the bike, so started the run in relaxed mode.

Run:
Stared to push a little after 2km, but was a bit "disappointed" to see that they had added the dog-leg to make up the 10km, which was going to rule out any chance of clawing back the PB time.
However, starting lap 2, a female competitor was starting her first lap and was travelling a little faster than I was comfortable with. Latched on for 2km and then realized that I might still have a shot to go sub 2:40.
Once we got to the "lego", I kicked on and held it to the finish.
Run 48:12 vs 46:56 last year (but this was a real 10km).

Overall finished in 2:39:54, vs 2:40:45 in '09.

Not exactly smashing the PB, but given it was a full 10km run and off the back of a terrible swim, I'll take it:)

Last event milestone before IM is the W200 next week. Weather looks to be good - bring it on!

catweazle

Nicely done Izoard, I hope you dealt out some retribution yourself after that kick to the head

griffin100

:eek:

Swim:
Off in wave 2, and was at the front when the hooter went off. A foot in the face after 30 secs or so knocked the goggles off - standard tri fare really.
However about 3 mins in, I got a kick to the temple that had me seeing stars
I was all over the place for a couple of mins, before things started to come back to normal.
By the time I hit the turnaround, there were few around me, so I knew I was near the back. As an added bonus, my super-fly Aquasphere goggles are fog-magnets - I meant to bin them last year, but arrived in Tyrone with them and they weren't too bad (probably the cold up there...), so gave them another chance here - red card performance.

Finished the swim in a poor 31:54, nearly 3mins down on last year.
So much for setting a PB

What was it about that swim....I got more kicks and punches than I ever have before in any open water swim. I almost broke a finger when I stroked into the back of someone walking (yes walking) about 50m after the turnwround point

shotgunmcos

Well done on the PB in Athy kiddo! Bin those goggles for sure, you don't want that sh!te for 3.8km now

I'm looking forward to/nervous about the W200 this weekend. First time for me doing a sportive and with a paltry 6 group rides and 2 100km rides done this year I'm anxious enough in groups. I have zero hill climbing sessions done also Still though pockets full of tea brack and a sunny day and I'll coast along happily for as long as it takes.

TriBar

Izoard wrote: »

As an added bonus, my super-fly Aquasphere goggles are fog-magnets - I meant to bin them last year, but arrived in Tyrone with them and they weren't too bad (probably the cold up there...), so gave them another chance here - red card performance.

Well done on PB in Athy. Hope you didn't think it was a wasted training day.

Had same constant problem with Fog until I came across two bits of advice.
1. Smear a drop of Wash-up liquid on inside of lens. Spread it around and leave for a couple of mins. Then using kitchen paper rub in hard into lens until all liquid dried up.
2. Put your goggles on before they get wet. Moisture+Heat=Fog.

Had a much more pleasant swim in Athy with goggles working. Try it out before you bin the old goggles or even on a new pair.

Good luck in the W200.

Izoard

TriBar wrote: »

Well done on PB in Athy. Hope you didn't think it was a wasted training day.

Had same constant problem with Fog until I came across two bits of advice.
1. Smear a drop of Wash-up liquid on inside of lens. Spread it around and leave for a couple of mins. Then using kitchen paper rub in hard into lens until all liquid dried up.
2. Put your goggles on before they get wet. Moisture+Heat=Fog.

Had a much more pleasant swim in Athy with goggles working. Try it out before you bin the old goggles or even on a new pair.

Good luck in the W200.

Cheers TriBar...how was your outing on the Sunday?

For your suggestion 1 above, do you eventually rinse the the washing-up liquid off, or just leave the residue there?

TriBar

Managed to knock 9mins off last year even with the upstream swim leg, wet bike and full 5k run cross leg/country. A definite PB-chuffed. A lot more training combined with shedding a few lbs of lard really does work. A few years since you've been able to achieve those improvement jumps! Brittas OLY is the season end litmus test of my progress.

On the Anti-Fog - Just leave the lens to dry and it forms a jelly like film. Don't wet it before you swim. It forms the best anti-fog treatment I've found. I've found rinsing the lens and repeating every 3-4 swims keeps swims fog free. Just don't let MrsI catch you or you'll have to do the dishes too!

Izoard

Great work on the PB, TriBar!

I'll get to work on the washing up liquid, out of sight of Mrs. I...:)

dare2be

Izoard wrote: »

Had the epic cross country drive from Gorey as a warm up, but got there in loads of time.

Swim start was held up as 5 lads struggled to remove the scaffolding for the water.

As soon as a wet-suit clad Peter Kern entered the fray, things seemed to happen!

Swim:
Off in wave 2, and was at the front when the hooter went off. A foot in the face after 30 secs or so knocked the goggles off - standard tri fare really.
However about 3 mins in, I got a kick to the temple that had me seeing stars:(
I was all over the place for a couple of mins, before things started to come back to normal.
By the time I hit the turnaround, there were few around me, so I knew I was near the back. As an added bonus, my super-fly Aquasphere goggles are fog-magnets - I meant to bin them last year, but arrived in Tyrone with them and they weren't too bad (probably the cold up there...), so gave them another chance here - red card performance.

Finished the swim in a poor 31:54, nearly 3mins down on last year.
So much for setting a PB:mad:

Bike:
Lap 1 was great, but by lap 2 there were a lot of people on the course and there were a couple of nasty accidents. Drafting continues to be an issue, but not as bad as you might expect with the crowds.
Felt good on both laps and passed more than passed me - unusual circumstances in my position.
Time: 1:14:24 vs 1:19:21 from last year.
I wasn't aware I'd pulled back much time on the bike, so started the run in relaxed mode.

Run:
Stared to push a little after 2km, but was a bit "disappointed" to see that they had added the dog-leg to make up the 10km, which was going to rule out any chance of clawing back the PB time.
However, starting lap 2, a female competitor was starting her first lap and was travelling a little faster than I was comfortable with. Latched on for 2km and then realized that I might still have a shot to go sub 2:40.
Once we got to the "lego", I kicked on and held it to the finish.
Run 48:12 vs 46:56 last year (but this was a real 10km).

Overall finished in 2:39:54, vs 2:40:45 in '09.

Not exactly smashing the PB, but given it was a full 10km run and off the back of a terrible swim, I'll take it:)

Last event milestone before IM is the W200 next week. Weather looks to be good - bring it on!

What type are they as i may have the same pair? Must try the trick below!!

asimonov

Izoard wrote: »

Great work on the PB, TriBar!

I'll get to work on the washing up liquid, out of sight of Mrs. I...:)

well done on the PB - good stuff. i'm pretty sure he meant Mrs. I was meant to do the goggles.

Izoard

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Well done on the PB in Athy kiddo! Bin those goggles for sure, you don't want that sh!te for 3.8km now

I'm looking forward to/nervous about the W200 this weekend. First time for me doing a sportive and with a paltry 6 group rides and 2 100km rides done this year I'm anxious enough in groups. I have zero hill climbing sessions done also Still though pockets full of tea brack and a sunny day and I'll coast along happily for as long as it takes.

It should be a good day out...200km is a bridge too far for me from an enjoyment perspective (120km is where the enjoyment generally ends...just in time for Sileve Maan:))

My first W200 was in 2002 on the day of Ireland v Spain at the World Cup.

Pretty much everyone bailed at 100 and settled in to watch the game, but I was determined to push on. It started to lash rain and it was a miserable final solo 100km.

When I'm struggling up Sileve Maan/SE, I'll think back to my first outing..:rolleyes:

Izoard

dare2be wrote: »

What type are they as i may have the same pair? QUOTE]

Aquasphere (Appalling) Vista's....

Macanri

Enjoy the W200 tomorrow.

Izoard

Macanri wrote: »

Enjoy the W200 tomorrow.

Cheers Mac...good day out.

Izoard

Got to the car park around 6:30am. Beautiful sky, so dressed lightly.

Heading up the Glencree valley a nice mist mixed with the sun - beautiful.

By the time we hit Sally Gap, it was biblical:rolleyes:

My "travel light" strategy resulted in no rain jacket - school boy error.

However, I had a pair of wolly socks that came up to the knee - looked lke a gimp, but they were a complete life saver as they kept the calves warm during the worst of it.

Anyways, the weather eased by Kilbride, and with the wind from the SW, it meant that it would be a struggle to Donard but would ease from there.

Luckily the triple-header of Aughavanna, Slieve Maan and Shay Elliot were all in glorious sunshine - result.

Thought we were done and dusted at that stage, but the climb out of Avoca to Redcross took forever - didn't even know it existed, so mentally I was faffing around a bit at that point.

Once past that, the road surface improved (Bottom of Slieve Maan for the Worst Road of the Year Award...?) and it was a nice spin home, although the last 15km were in increasingly wet and blustery conditions.

195km total on the Garmin, with ride time of 7h 45.

Not sure I'd fancy tackling a marathon straight after!

Least painful W200 - slightly easier course and a stone less in lard:D

That's it for the events prior to IM - it's all becoming a bit real now.