Voting?

suitcasepink

jumpguy wrote: »

Why oh why can't we vote at 16? I know more about Lisbon than at least 20% of over 30 year olds.

Well if Ireland picks the wrong anwser again(:rolleyes:) you might get the chance.

Deise Tom

Anyone get the feeling that the outcome of the vote today will be alot closer than most think or even another majority No vote.

jumpguy

Deise Tom wrote: »

Anyone get the feeling that the outcome of the vote today will be alot closer than most think or even another majority No vote.

I could predict it the last time, the no campaign picked up serious slack, got creative, played on people's basic fears and emotions, basically played dirty. Look at the no campaign this time around. Dublin is COVERED in those eye-catching Cóir heart-shaped posters, full of dubious messages.
Today, my friend told me his mother was voting "no". I asked why and he said "cause she doesn't want me to join the EU army". Dear God....a misinterpretation of information, from the no campaign!

The yes campaign has played it too honest, and should've played it like the no campaign. The no campaign has poster's full of children's faces, and telling us minimum wages will be 1.84c . They also lack the creativity of the no campaign.

I would be only mildly surprised if the no campaign won tbh.

sock puppet

jumpguy wrote: »

I could predict it the last time, the no campaign picked up serious slack, got creative, played on people's basic fears and emotions, basically played dirty. Look at the no campaign this time around. Dublin is COVERED in those eye-catching Cóir heart-shaped posters, full of dubious messages.
Today, my friend told me his mother was voting "no". I asked why and he said "cause she doesn't want me to join the EU army". Dear God....a misinterpretation of information, from the no campaign!

The yes campaign has played it too honest, and should've played it like the no campaign. The no campaign has poster's full of children's faces, and telling us minimum wages will be 1.84c . They also lack the creativity of the no campaign.

I would be only mildly surprised if the no campaign won tbh.

The problem I saw with the No campaign this time round they didn't try and disguise their hatred of the EU. The last time they all said along the lines of "Oh we're in favour of the EU we just think Ireland can do better than Lisbon" whereas this time they've all made it pretty clear that they just don't want to be in the EU. The fact is no matter what the contents of the Lisbon Treaty were they all would have opposed it.

Davidius

I thought the doomsday posters were hilarious. Though I think to say that the Yes campaign was being honest is a bit of a lie.

D4RK ONION

http://www.irishtimes.com/
There's a fantastic map of which counties(sp?) are voting what way there. Updated in real time. Yes is kicking proverbial arse.

Stev_o

jumpguy wrote: »

The yes campaign has played it too honest, and should've played it like the no campaign. The no campaign has poster's full of children's faces, and telling us minimum wages will be 1.84c . They also lack the creativity of the no campaign.

I would be only mildly surprised if the no campaign won tbh.

I expect 20,000 jobs to be announced come Monday or ill demand you reverse this statement and say that the Yes campaign did as much as the No campaigning in harnessing the fear of the recession.

Fad

D4RK ONION wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/
There's a fantastic map of which counties(sp?) are voting what way there. Updated in real time. Yes is kicking proverbial arse.

Can we vote Donegal out of Ireland, do we really need them.

spoonbadger

Metal_Princess wrote: »

I was under the impression we lived in a democracy

how is this so when we, the people are asked to vote twice on the same referendum to which we already voted NO to just because our governmeant are a bunch of selfish idiotic assholes wanting to line their pockets without a second thought for the effects this will have on the ordinary people, and without giving us any new information? just lies and promices of a better future? to get out of the recession? be one with europe?

no more free education, no more neutrality, lower basic wages and oh yes the best part...ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

How many more times will they push us untill they get the yes that so desperatly crave?

To spit on the history of our freedom? On the people who campaigned and fought to make ireland a free democratic country ??

where is our free ireland today?
it is being burned to the ground
and we shall once again stand back and watch it burn

Errrr, so the divorce vote is unconstitutional?. K, i'll go tell everyone that they're divorces have been retroactively voided...

And it's not voting on the same treaty, it's been altered since Lisbon 1.

Also, where did you get this crap about education/neutrality/wages?. This kind of pathetic misinformation is what your side has been clinging to through both campaigns. Sadly, the gullible peons who are too lazy to do their own research are happy to listen to this extremist crap. There should be some kind of common sense requirement before being allowed to vote.

Metal_Princess wrote:

ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

You mean 0.8%?. Those extra zeroes you threw in have no effect on that statistic. Like many of the No-vote's tactics, they just confuse people who dont know better.

I guess there should be a basic maths requirement before voting too....

suitcasepink

I just don't understand why the time we vote no we have to vote again but since we voted yes theres no way going to be a third referendum.

I'll be honest now and say i know very little about it but I thinks its quite weird from what I grasp.

I saw my favourite Lisbon poster on the way home today! It wa s ano campaign poster and it was offical but included a cursing word and the most unflattering photo of the man himself. In fairness it was kinda mean.

Stev_o

Tbh if we weren't in a recession id bet that the No vote would of won a second time.

soccymonster

deise_girl wrote: »

I just don't understand why the time we vote no we have to vote again but since we voted yes theres no way going to be a third referendum.

I'll be honest now and say i know very little about it but I thinks its quite weird from what I grasp.

I saw my favourite Lisbon poster on the way home today! It wa s ano campaign poster and it was offical but included a cursing word and the most unflattering photo of the man himself. In fairness it was kinda mean.

Same here .

Oh, my favourite poster is one on the border of Clarecastle and ennis at the roundabout where the yes campaign poster saying "pat the cope says yes!" is spray painted into "pat the cope says yes no, wan*er".

:pac:


haha, cracks me up every time :P

Davidius

spoonbadger, was the treaty itself not exactly the same as it was before? The only 'changes' I've heard of were those to do with the guarantees on things such as abortion etc. which have nothing to do with the treaty.

Anyhow, I can't help but notice the smug and condescending nature of many 'Yes' voters*. The honest truth is, voting 'Yes' does not make you any smarter or any better than anybody else. In fact, I'm very much willing to bet that most 'Yes' voters were voting for reasons such as "Staying in the EU" and "Instant recovery", not to mention "It'll give me an unfounded sense of superior intellect so I can pretend that I'm better than others even though I'm just as much of a moron as everybody else".

That said, I didn't vote and was a bit Yes leaning towards the end but felt as though having not fully studied and understood the treaty, it wasn't my place. Which to be fair, I don't think that many voters did either, Yes or No.

*And I'm not talking about here specifically.

EDIT:
And yes, anybody with a bit of a cynicism in them knows full well the vote was mainly recession motivated.

suitcasepink

soccymonster wrote: »

Same here .

Oh, my favourite poster is one on the border of Clarecastle and ennis at the roundabout where the yes campaign poster saying "pat the cope says yes!" is spray painted into "pat the cope says yes no, wan*er".

:pac:


haha, cracks me up every time :P

This one said 'What a load of 'B******, its the same treaty.' But I couldn't beleve it was offical I didnt think you'd be allowed write that!! And then the picture the poor man had this big, cheesy grin with his thumbs up. As funny as it was it's actually horrible to him.

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh if we weren't in a recession id bet that the No vote would of won a second time.

Maybe it's taken a recession for people to realise just how crucial the EU and their support is to our economic recovery.

deise_girl wrote: »

This one said 'What a load of 'B******, its the same treaty.' But I couldn't beleve it was offical I didnt think you'd be allowed write that!! And then the picture the poor man had this big, cheesy grin with his thumbs up. As funny as it was it's actually horrible to him.

It said "Never Mind the Bollocks". It's the title of an album by the Sex Pistols so I'd assume that's why they used it.

Stev_o

sock puppet wrote: »

Maybe it's taken a recession for people to realise just how crucial the EU and their support is to our economic recovery.


.

Did we just join the EU today? This recession has been going on for some time yet i haven't seen the EU bail us out of it. Where in the treaty does it say that the EU shall now provide economic recovery to member states?

suitcasepink

I'm really awaiting to see what happens from this Treaty.. I've scared myslef into thinking one thing if 'yes' was passed, so I'm terrified of that!
But what is Europe really going to do for Ireland,why would these big countries care about us?? I think people were scared that we were going to get bullyed out of Europe if we voted no and that we'd be stuck on our own. But.... I dunno I think there could be change for some big countries but I can see Irleand changing very, very little.

But again I'll repeat I really don't know much about Lisbon at all.

Stev_o

deise_girl wrote: »

I'm really awaiting to see what happens from this Treaty.. I've scared myslef into thinking one thing if 'yes' was passed, so I'm terrified of that!
But what is Europe really going to do for Ireland,why would these big countries care about us?? I think people were scared that we were going to get bullyed out of Europe if we voted no and that we'd be stuck on our own. But.... I dunno I think there could be change for some big countries but I can see Irleand changing very, very little.

But again I'll repeat I really don't know much about Lisbon at all.

Sweet f*ck all will happen and the inefficient EU colonial machine will march on trying to secure Turkey a place in the near future.

Mean ffs was watching Sky who were suggest Tony Blair as the first EU president, brilliant we already have one incompetent leader in Ireland then we'd have a deranged lier in charge of Europe brilliant.

So, it has been passed...

Now we, the united evil and global elite, can continue to persue our goal of creating a United States of Europe, which will inevitably lead to the long awaited New World Order and global enslavement.

So...

Stev_o

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So, it has been passed...

Now we, the united evil and global elite, can continue to persue our goal of creating a United States of Europe, which will inevitably lead to the long awaited New World Order and global enslavement.

So...

Technically we already are as we are no longer in a European community but now a European union.

Pygmalion

Stev_o wrote: »

I expect 20,000 jobs to be announced come Monday or ill demand you reverse this statement and say that the Yes campaign did as much as the No campaigning in harnessing the fear of the recession.

Big difference.
I've never seen anyone claim that 20,000 jobs would be created, I've seen people claim that "some" jobs will be created, without mentioning numbers, and more people claim that it'll help keep companies in Ireland (Intel did a lot to back up this claim, their posters came across as "If you vote No we'll seriously reconsider our position here", whether or not it was an empty threat I don't know).

On the other hand, I've seen such lies as "€1.84 minimum wage" and "The only job Lisbon will save is [Brian Cowen's]" on every street I've walked down.

Deise Tom

Pygmalion wrote: »

Big difference.
I've never seen anyone claim that 20,000 jobs would be created, I've seen people claim that "some" jobs will be created, without mentioning numbers.

One jon will be created, a president of the Union.

I saw last night on the channel 4 news that some British people expect it to be Tony Blair.

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

Did we just join the EU today? This recession has been going on for some time yet i haven't seen the EU bail us out of it. Where in the treaty does it say that the EU shall now provide economic recovery to member states?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0921/1224254908745.html

They are bailing us out. I don't know where you got the idea that they weren't. How do you think Irish banks are still operating?

suitcasepink

Apperntly theres more problems.. Czech wont sign and Uk are hoping for Cameron to be Prime minister next year to let them vote on it... I'll look for links later but tis is what I heard.

Maybe there still wont be a Lisbon Teaty.

sock puppet

deise_girl wrote: »

Apperntly theres more problems.. Czech wont sign and Uk are hoping for Cameron to be Prime minister next year to let them vote on it... I'll look for links later but tis is what I heard.

Maybe there still wont be a Lisbon Teaty.

Yeah. Both Czech houses have ratified it but their President hasn't signed it into law yet. If he doesn't sign it before the UK election (in Spring I think?) then it'll be interesting to see what happens.

spoonbadger

Stev_o wrote: »

Sweet f*ck all will happen and the inefficient EU colonial machine will march on trying to secure Turkey a place in the near future.

Errr, are you trying to suggest they shouldn't let turkey in?.

The EU let ireland in when we they knew we had F-all to contribute, and helped drag our asses out of the last recession when they had no gaurantee we could ever do anything in return. Dont you think turkey deserves the same?.

Actually, this is the biggest problem with No-voters. You ignore everything europe has done for us, and just look for another way to bleed the turnip. You dig in your heels and complain that power is being taken away from us, by the people whose decision it was to grant that power in the first place. You assume that ireland is more important than every other country in Europe, just because it's your own country.

Btw, who the hell said that we're no longer a community, we're a union?. They should do some serious research into what EU stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Sense, reason and progress won out in the end.

Stev_o

spoonbadger wrote: »

Errr, are you trying to suggest they shouldn't let turkey in?.

The EU let ireland in when we they knew we had F-all to contribute, and helped drag our asses out of the last recession when they had no gaurantee we could ever do anything in return. Dont you think turkey deserves the same?.

Of course, why should they be added? Have you not noticed that since the addition of the Eastern European states that the their has been a dramatic rise in cheap labour foreign nationals coming to this country despite the claims of many TD's that this wouldn't happen the inclusion of Turkey would only see this trend rise.

We are one of the richest countries in the EU now, the EU will be asking us to return the favour. Now considering how feeble our economic situation is in this country is tell me why it would make sense for us to fiance the development of countries like Poland, Turkey, Ukraine etc which would result in even more of the very few MNC's leave this country for the cheap labour filled countries which we would have helped to established

Actually, this is the biggest problem with No-voters. You ignore everything europe has done for us, and just look for another way to bleed the turnip. You dig in your heels and complain that power is being taken away from us, by the people whose decision it was to grant that power in the first place. You assume that ireland is more important than every other country in Europe, just because it's your own country.

Btw, who the hell said that we're no longer a community, we're a union?. They should do some serious research into what EU stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Sense, reason and progress won out in the end..

*Bows down*

Im so sorry sir i forgot that you sit on the morale high ground of the yes vote and that you are indeed never wrong and completely perfect. Here let me adjust that crown for you. :rolleyes:

Seriously are you in the reincarnation of Jesus/Mohammad/Buddha? How dare you call me ignorant and try and proclaim yourself as perfect and almighty, clearly you have no idea what democracy is if you think the only right answer was Yes, there was in fact two right answers Yes and No.

Also maybe you should actually read the treaty and look for yourself that we are in a Union not a community.

jumpguy

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So, it has been passed...

Now we, the united evil and global elite, can continue to persue our goal of creating a United States of Europe, which will inevitably lead to the long awaited New World Order and global enslavement.

So...

Am I the only not bothered about a United Europe superpower? It would benefit us in most aspects.
Waaah waaah sovereignity. We've yet to see it. We've depended on every other country for our rise, and it was ourselves that have made us fall so bad. Now, we're gonna ask for every other country a rise again. Besides that, we've been a backward country around 20 years behind the first world for most of our country's existance.

spoonbadger wrote: »

Errr, are you trying to suggest they shouldn't let turkey in?.

The EU let ireland in when we they knew we had F-all to contribute, and helped drag our asses out of the last recession when they had no gaurantee we could ever do anything in return. Dont you think turkey deserves the same?.

Actually, this is the biggest problem with No-voters. You ignore everything europe has done for us, and just look for another way to bleed the turnip. You dig in your heels and complain that power is being taken away from us, by the people whose decision it was to grant that power in the first place. You assume that ireland is more important than every other country in Europe, just because it's your own country.

Btw, who the hell said that we're no longer a community, we're a union?. They should do some serious research into what EU stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Sense, reason and progress won out in the end.

True. We're happy and cheery about the EU when they've pumping billions into the country and building nice, smooth German motorways around Dublin. When we're on our feet and asked to give some money to other poorer countries, who are basically us back in the 1970's, we'll tell them to **** off. Last year, we were asked to give up some EU power for fairness's sake really, and so the EU could expand to help other countries. We said no, ignored all the EU had done for us. We thought the future was bright and we could do without the EU.
This time, we said yes, realising what the EU could do for us in the future.

Deise Tom

deise_girl wrote: »

Apperntly theres more problems.. Czech wont sign and Uk are hoping for Cameron to be Prime minister next year to let them vote on it... I'll look for links later but tis is what I heard.

Maybe there still wont be a Lisbon Teaty.

You are spot on, and maybe if the Irish people had any doubts about it they should not have been bullied into voting yes. I think it was rather funny that all the political parties bar Sinn Fein and The Workers Party which is a break away from Sinn Fein were looking for a yes vote. When did they all agree on something last. Its a pity that they do not agree to try and get the country back on the rails together rather than to try and steal cheap shots off each other.

Pygmalion

Deise Tom wrote: »

You are spot on, and maybe if the Irish people had any doubts about it they should not have been bullied into voting yes. I think it was rather funny that all the political parties bar Sinn Fein and The Workers Party which is a break away from Sinn Fein were looking for a yes vote. When did they all agree on something last. Its a pity that they do not agree to try and get the country back on the rails together rather than to try and steal cheap shots off each other.

All the political parties agree on something, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

As for "bullying", look into the reasons given by the "No" voters last time, the biggest 3 were fears over abortion, fears over neutrality and the commisioner IIRC (in no particular order).
One has been rectified since then, the other two were complete lies brought about by the no side. It's perfectly reasonable to think that people changed their minds because either their fears were addressed or they realised they were lied to, it's not bullying just because you disagree.