Unions should seek higher wages so workers can pay higher taxes

AGP

Everybody says we must pay more taxes, so the other side of that equation is that the unions must get active on behalf of their members to get wage rises to offset the higher taxes (in particular the threatened property tax and the water charges).
If the govenment wants us to be a high tax economy, then so be it, but you can't have a high tax low wage economy - it has to be high tax high wage economy so that the workers can pay the extra taxes and still survive.
I know this will be a controversial view, but all the people who are on the radio and on TV calling for higher taxes are well paid and can afford it. Low to modest wage earners simply can't afford any more , so something has to give, and I believe if the government goes ahead and brings in all these taxes, there will be a wave of industrial unrest in the private sector by workers who have no option but to strike to get higher wages so they and their families can survive.

irish_bob

AGP wrote: »

Everybody says we must pay more taxes, so the other side of that equation is that the unions must get active on behalf of their members to get wage rises to offset the higher taxes (in particular the threatened property tax and the water charges).
If the govenment wants us to be a high tax economy, then so be it, but you can't have a high tax low wage economy - it has to be high tax high wage economy so that the workers can pay the extra taxes and still survive.
I know this will be a controversial view, but all the people who are on the radio and on TV calling for higher taxes are well paid and can afford it. Low to modest wage earners simply can't afford any more , so something has to give, and I believe if the government goes ahead and brings in all these taxes, there will be a wave of industrial unrest in the private sector by workers who have no option but to strike to get higher wages so they and their families can survive.

welcome mr mugabe

MikeC101

Didn't you post the exact same thread already?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055602881

And as pointed out in that thread, inflation, multinationals pulling out due to increased wage bills....oh what's the point, are you going to just ignore the responses and repost this thread in another few months?

Dannyboy83

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1054995

Sand

I think this is a sensible proposition. Indeed, as a socialist and trade unionist I believe the solution to any economic crisis is higher wages. Lower wages on thee other hand woould spelll economic disaster

vinylbomb

Sand wrote: »

I think this is a sensible proposition. Indeed, as a socialist and trade unionist I believe the solution to any economic crisis is higher wages. Lower wages on thee other hand woould spelll economic disaster

I think you will find that history would argue against you.

Besides, Ireland is a high wage, low tax society at the moment.

erictheviking

vinylbomb wrote: »

I think you will find that history would argue against you.

Besides, Ireland is a high wage, low tax society at the moment.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

damo

Do you have any understanding what so ever about how an economy works?

If people demand higher wages now, irelands competitiveness diminishes further which will cause more big job providing business e.g dell to leave the country and go somewhere thats cheaper to operate from e.g poland. The result is that ireland takes in less tax, has to pay out yet more money on social welfare and the people who lose jobs have less disposable income and so stop spending money which causes yet more businesses to shut and more jobs to be lost. See the pattern?

This thread is a prime example of how the unions in this country are clueless and if left unchecked (which they have been now for years by our pathetic politicians) will run the country into the ground.

The reality here is that wages need to drop significantly, especially the minimum wage and obviously the public sector. Ireland needs to regain its competitiveness to be able to attract foreign business to set up here again.

zootroid

erictheviking wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well, someone earning 36k (which i think is around the average industrial wage) will take home around 80% of their gross wage (29,124 euro -calculated using http://taxcalc.eu/)

That is before tax reliefs such as rent relief come into the equation. I would call that a low tax environment. Taxes may have increased over the last couple of years, but that is not to say Ireland has a high tax base.

zootroid

AGP wrote: »

Everybody says we must pay more taxes, so the other side of that equation is that the unions must get active on behalf of their members to get wage rises to offset the higher taxes (in particular the threatened property tax and the water charges).
If the govenment wants us to be a high tax economy, then so be it, but you can't have a high tax low wage economy - it has to be high tax high wage economy so that the workers can pay the extra taxes and still survive.
I know this will be a controversial view, but all the people who are on the radio and on TV calling for higher taxes are well paid and can afford it. Low to modest wage earners simply can't afford any more , so something has to give, and I believe if the government goes ahead and brings in all these taxes, there will be a wave of industrial unrest in the private sector by workers who have no option but to strike to get higher wages so they and their families can survive.

Is this a wind-up? You realise that companies compete with other companies to sell their products? Higher wages -> higher costs -> higher prices for goods in order to cover high costs -> companies can't compete with competitors, and go out of business -> higher social welfare costs as more people become unemployed.

Kalashnikov_Kid

We must offset all economic gains made from increased taxation by increasing the wages of union workers.

Only a trade union executive could come up with that one.

OP, Is that you Mr. Rabbitte? How's things going in that new parallel universe of yours?

Diarmuid

vinylbomb wrote: »

Besides, Ireland is a high wage, low tax society at the moment.

l think the phrase "faraway fields are green" is relevant here

Source

AGP

I'm hoping to stimulate a good debate about this. What I'm trying to point out is that there will be a reaction by ordinary workers to higher taxes. Just as the government is trying to solve its economic problems by a mixture of cutting expenditure and raising revenue, then ordinary people will do the same, and the only way ordinary workers can raise extra revenue is through pay rises.
I understand the arguement that the country can't afford it, but neither can ordinary workers on modest or low incomes afford it. I don't think anyone is factoring in how tight many families budgets already are. People who have taken wage cuts or lower wage jobs already will not be able to absorb any new taxes without passing them on in some way.

professore

AGP wrote: »

I'm hoping to stimulate a good debate about this. What I'm trying to point out is that there will be a reaction by ordinary workers to higher taxes. Just as the government is trying to solve its economic problems by a mixture of cutting expenditure and raising revenue, then ordinary people will do the same, and the only way ordinary workers can raise extra revenue is through pay rises.
I understand the arguement that the country can't afford it, but neither can ordinary workers on modest or low incomes afford it. I don't think anyone is factoring in how tight many families budgets already are. People who have taken wage cuts or lower wage jobs already will not be able to absorb any new taxes without passing them on in some way.

If there are any pay rises across the board prices will skyrocket again wiping out any benefit to families. Prices outside the public sector have already fallen significantly. Wages and costs need to come down in the public sector to be brought in line with the private sector. That way everything will be cheaper and people will be better off even though on paper they earn less. Also there will be more people working as companies will be able to compete again with our nearest neighbours.

silverharp

AGP wrote: »

I'm hoping to stimulate a good debate about this. What I'm trying to point out is that there will be a reaction by ordinary workers to higher taxes. Just as the government is trying to solve its economic problems by a mixture of cutting expenditure and raising revenue, then ordinary people will do the same, and the only way ordinary workers can raise extra revenue is through pay rises.
I understand the arguement that the country can't afford it, but neither can ordinary workers on modest or low incomes afford it. I don't think anyone is factoring in how tight many families budgets already are. People who have taken wage cuts or lower wage jobs already will not be able to absorb any new taxes without passing them on in some way.

It just seems that you have framed the issue the wrong way. We live in a very infantile society, if the gov doesnt balances the books, it borrows and increases taxes. If people see their net income drop, they want a pay rise. The midset appears to be that someone else has to foot the bill instead of face reality.
The reality is that we are likely headed for a debt induced deflation. This means that peoples assumptions will change and will become very defensive. People will accept lower salaries to keep their jobs (I know I would) .
Maintaining the status quo is a fantasy , the car loans will go, the credit cards will go, the 3 holidays a year will go , the gym memberships will go......
You can see it happen already, I was speaking to a Polish nanny the other day and shock horror Irish people/parents are now filling up the nannies market.