Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

LiNgWiStIkZ

sparkling sea wrote: »

Irish society glamorizes alcohol while demonizing drugs. In Ireland more people are killed by cigarette smoking, drink and cars than drugs.These are indisputable facts (CSO figures) yet calls for the prohibition of cigarettes, alcohol or driving are almost unheard of.

Every government knows this, most of them choose to completely ignore it.

It all started in the US with the alcohol prohibition. It brought about more problems than it solved - organised crime was the biggest thing to come out of that. Sure, it was there beforehand, but nowhere close to being as strong as it was during and after alcohol prohibition. People like Al Capone made millions upon millions of dollars from selling alcohol during this era.

The US Government know exactly what is happening - they lost the war on alcohol, and now the war on drugs. In my opinion, they're embarrassed and afraid to admit that! It's changing state level alright, but the federal government is still stubborn. At least progress is being made in California and many other states across the US. It's medically available in 14 states!

Until the US makes some drastic changes, I don't see many other countries following suit.

sparkling sea

LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »

Every government knows this, most of them choose to completely ignore it.

Until the US makes some drastic changes, I don't see many other countries following suit.

Alcohol and cigarettes are legal in Ireland, but they are an extremely lucrative commodity for criminal gangs so the prohibition arguement is not stacking up as well as it used too.

I am wondering why you feel the US will determine change when Europe is more progressive in this area

darragh16

I thought I heard that Obama is keen about decriminalising it and letting each of the states make their own decisions on its legality.... California and Massechusetts seem the most prgressive on the idea.

LiNgWiStIkZ

Obama is keen on medical usage. He's after letting the DEA know that they should stop doing raids on dispensaries in states where it's legal. Thing is though, he's only after recommending it to them ; one was only raided last week - http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=132606&catid=339

It's pretty shameful to be honest!

sparkling sea wrote: »

I am wondering why you feel the US will determine change when Europe is more progressive in this area

I just see it this way, it might not be true. I think the US will be the main factor in the prohibition:)

LiNgWiStIkZ

CLINICAL TRIALS SHOW MEDICAL BENEFITS OF POT

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v10/n123/a07.htm

The University of California's Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research has basically published a report showing the benefits of cannabis.

Big news! They could potentially bring this forward to the DEA - what arguments do they have now?


Also - http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20100217/NEWS/100217017/Iowa-pharmacy-board-opens-door-for-medical-marijuana

Iowa's pharma board has basically recommeded MMJ for patients. It's strange to see a pharmaceutical board do this! Big things are happening in the US guys. It's only a matter of time before it comes here to be honest.

thebman

Its not like you can't just stick a brand name on it and sell it for more.

Pharama companies need to realise that. If anything it will increase their profit margins. I imagine they can restrict who can produce it using the same mechanism as they use for prescription drugs and that will mean Pharma companies make it, brand it and people buy it over the counter from a pharmacy although for the first while it will probably be prescription only to make it look like there was a reason for it being illegal in the first place.

LiNgWiStIkZ

thebman wrote: »

Its not like you can't just stick a brand name on it and sell it for more.

Pharama companies need to realise that. If anything it will increase their profit margins. I imagine they can restrict who can produce it using the same mechanism as they use for prescription drugs and that will mean Pharma companies make it, brand it and people buy it over the counter from a pharmacy although for the first while it will probably be prescription only to make it look like there was a reason for it being illegal in the first place.

They won't be producing or supplying the herb though. Not at least in any of the other 14 states. They're all run by independent groups (correct me if I'm wrong).

The FDA has approved a synthetic cannabinoid, Marinol. It's basically 100% THC in pill form. The only problem is, it's nowhere as effective as cannabis itself and people prefer to be using cannabis instead of some prescription drug.




Old news but it's 2010 related - http://seattlest.com/2008/07/09/another_reason_to_move_to_portland.php

Oregon is next to bring forward a legalisation initiative. It was started in 2008 and it's up for passing this year. They needed 80,000 signatures which I believe (and many others do) they have achieved. Good luck Oregon

sparkling sea

Whether decriminalisation is part of the solution does not appear to be of great concern to the Irish government; fear of recrimination from the public appears to be of greater concern. The recent controversy regarding head shops coupled with the lack of criticism against the people who are burning these shops down demonstrates this.

This short-sighted view, in my opinion, will continue to allow criminal gangs to disrupt and destroy the lives of many people, while the majority of the people who are harmed by drugs, continue to be harmed by alcohol and cigarettes.

Kurtosis

thebman wrote: »

Its not like you can't just stick a brand name on it and sell it for more.

Pharama companies need to realise that. If anything it will increase their profit margins. I imagine they can restrict who can produce it using the same mechanism as they use for prescription drugs and that will mean Pharma companies make it, brand it and people buy it over the counter from a pharmacy although for the first while it will probably be prescription only to make it look like there was a reason for it being illegal in the first place.

Can I ask what medical uses will it be marketed for by these pharma companies do you think? The above link suggested there is evidence in Multiple Sclerosis and some neurological conditions...hate to break it you, these are serious conditions that would have to be formally diagnosed and monitored, no way would the IMB designate it for over the counter sale! You can't even buy low dose aspirin over the counter here!

746watts

Shove your cannabis! there's enough junkies around robbing old people as it is, society doesn't need more muppets high as a kite thinking they can fly.

LiNgWiStIkZ

746watts wrote: »

Shove your cannabis! there's enough junkies around robbing old people as it is, society doesn't need more muppets high as a kite thinking they can fly.

That's a bit ignorant don't you think?

Gurgle

746watts wrote: »

Shove your cannabis! there's enough junkies around robbing old people as it is, society doesn't need more muppets high as a kite thinking they can fly.

Learning exercise:
Google 'junkie'
Google 'cannabis'
k thx bye

sparkling sea

746watts wrote: »

Shove your cannabis! there's enough junkies around robbing old people as it is, society doesn't need more muppets high as a kite thinking they can fly.

I agree society doesn't need anymore muppets - but it has them anyway and will continue to have them anyway - whether they are as high as a kite or not.

LiNgWiStIkZ

746watts wrote: »

Shove your cannabis! there's enough junkies around robbing old people as it is, society doesn't need more muppets high as a kite thinking they can fly.

Shove your naivety! There's enough lies around robbing people of their freedom as it is, society doesn't need more ignorance thinking it's right.

Shulgin

746watts wrote: »

Shove your cannabis! there's enough junkies around robbing old people as it is, society doesn't need more muppets high as a kite thinking they can fly.

I think cannabis might just have the opposite effect
Anyone who thought they might rob an old person or think they could fly probably wouldnt bother with some good weed vapour in em.

Pappy o' daniel

People are too narrow in their viewpoint on this, they should try looking at it like an economist would.

Weed cannot be taxed simply because it is so easy to grow. Even illegal moonshine needs some expertise and special equipment.
Weed needs none of that. Anyone with some land in a sunny aspect can grow more than they'll ever need.

Now, how much does the government take from excise on alcohol and tobacco? If there were even a 5% drop in consumption due
to cannabis as a substitute product, how much would the government lose?

They would be replacing a product that earns with something that doesn't.

This is the only reason for it being illegal that makes logical sense.

def

Pappy o' daniel wrote: »

People are too narrow in their viewpoint on this, they should try looking at it like an economist would.

Weed cannot be taxed simply because it is so easy to grow. Even illegal moonshine needs some expertise and special equipment.
Weed needs none of that. Anyone with some land in a sunny aspect can grow more than they'll ever need.

Now, how much does the government take from excise on alcohol and tobacco? If there were even a 5% drop in consumption due
to cannabis as a substitute product, how much would the government lose?

They would be replacing a product that earns with something that doesn't.

This is the only reason for it being illegal that makes logical sense.

It should be easy enough to get a rough grip on the cannabis markets, issue permits to growers and to pot pubs , then somthin like if you sell pot you must purchase it of a permited "large scale" grower , give different permits for different size grows , college student size, unemployed mother size and farmer size or somthing to that effect .

With regard to drops in tax income .... I would feel "tax" money is put to far better use in the hands of the general public than the Irish semi demi elects.

The tax on alcohol and tabacco is a joke , raised to save the children ?
Ive a much better idea if you sell a child drink or tabacco ,the parents can sue the owner of the shop/pub and it gets banned for a while from selling the product in question, and the remaining stock gets burnt.

Very quickly no one will risk selling drink ,smokes or pot to kids. Like in the dam, but they dont get closed down.

Money is better off in circulation amongst the people, than on the "revenue" books.

The reason for the resistence is the wealth generated from cannabis, whether sativa.L or indica ,is spread far and wide and cant be concentrated to a few people. It pays farmers and student types, cant be having that. IG farbens worst enemy -hemp.

LiNgWiStIkZ

http://www.encod.org/info/EUROPEAN-UNION-ON-THE-ROAD-TO.html

Carel Edwards, Head of the Drugs Coordination Unit of the European Commission, the highest placed civil servant of the European Union concerning drug policies -
...
"we know that repression does not work. Europe is slowly on the way to more liberal drug policies."

The hearing resulted in several recommendations to the EU institutions. A mong others, it calls for the organisation of a EU Summit to discuss innovative drug strategies not based on prohibition, with delegations of national and local authorities, parliamentarians and civil society organisations. It also calls on the EU to strengthen the ’harm reduction"-approach, to allow citizens to grow cannabis for their personal use and in general to promote drug policies that respect human rights, individual freedoms and social cohesion.



The conclusions of the hearing will be presented on the meeting of the UN Commission on Narcotic Drugs in Vienna of 8 - 12 March.


Guys, I'm getting very excited. This is great news, i'm glad to be a part of the EU now! Come on, just a few more pushes and we're on the road to full legalisation.

def

LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »

http://www.encod.org/info/EUROPEAN-UNION-ON-THE-ROAD-TO.html






The hearing resulted in several recommendations to the EU institutions. A mong others, it calls for the organisation of a EU Summit to discuss innovative drug strategies not based on prohibition, with delegations of national and local authorities, parliamentarians and civil society organisations. It also calls on the EU to strengthen the ’harm reduction"-approach, to allow citizens to grow cannabis for their personal use and in general to promote drug policies that respect human rights, individual freedoms and social cohesion.



The conclusions of the hearing will be presented on the meeting of the UN Commission on Narcotic Drugs in Vienna of 8 - 12 March.


Guys, I'm getting very excited. This is great news, i'm glad to be a part of the EU now! Come on, just a few more pushes and we're on the road to full legalisation.

Thats gas , wasnt it this time last year the UN got the beckly foundation review on cannabis and was told drug prohibition doesnt work ....

Take that all you head shop burnin terrorists!

masterkio

All of wat yee are saying are good points, but most make the mistake of smoking cannibas.
this doesn't really achive much.
you need to consume or eat it instead of smoking it.

for anyone who is really interested in learning, watching, reading up on this subject,
go to the following post >>
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64792416&highlight=masterkio#post64792416

coz over the next few weeks.
I'm going to be posting a massive amount of information on this subject.

that is of course if the Admin here allow it all to be posted..?

LiNgWiStIkZ

I commend you, you're a good person for spreading the information and helping save lives

MaceFace

masterkio wrote: »

All of wat yee are saying are good points, but most make the mistake of smoking cannibas.
this doesn't really achive much.
you need to consume or eat it instead of smoking it.

for anyone who is really interested in learning, watching, reading up on this subject,
go to the following post >>
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64792416&highlight=masterkio#post64792416

coz over the next few weeks.
I'm going to be posting a massive amount of information on this subject.

that is of course if the Admin here allow it all to be posted..?

All hail Jim Jones, oh sorry, masterkio. The promised one is here.:rolleyes:

pinkyc

MaceFace wrote: »

All hail Jim Jones, oh sorry, masterkio. The promised one is here.:rolleyes:

(this is the poster above you, using his girlfriend's account)

What are you insinuating?

masterkio

LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »

I commend you, you're a good person for spreading the information and helping save lives

thanks mate.
i'll be starting this Project in a few days,
i'm working on sumthing else at the min.

masterkio

MaceFace wrote: »

All hail Jim Jones, oh sorry, masterkio. The promised one is here.:rolleyes:

I ain't no promised one, i'm just an ordinary joe who is tryin to put together information,
that was me having a rant coz admin here seemed to be blocking the rick simpson story.. now could be wrong about that.
And who's Jim Jones..?
Never Heard of him..?

paddyirishman15

I know the ups and downs of smoking cannabis, I have being smoking cannabis for almost 4years at this stage and what I'm about to say has nothing to do with my expirience, it's just common fact.
It will bring the irish economy to a much lower number of unemployment, e.g sales,healthcare,farming etc.
It would bring the country to its feet with the recession,via government taxes.
It would also increase and promote alot of tourism troughout the country.
It would open the eyes to the E.U about legalisation.
It would help terminate gang crime and drug lords
It would allow law enforcement to focus on heavier,more dangerous drugs as in heroine and cocaine.
It would make cannabis alot safer because i've seen myself drug dealers making themselvs a pretty penny by mixing heroine with cannabis creating addiction and alot of returning customers and i've also seen "soap bar" being hash with plastic and pvc glue and even human feces in some wich would make the hash heavier so it would be more expensive.I also have witnessed cannabis being sprayed with glass for the same reason as hash to make it weigh more so it would be more expensive.This would be known as "Sand Blasting" and the cannabis would be known as Contaminated (or) Grit weed.
I personally think that it's impossible to bring cannabis to an end illeagal or not.So what the government are doing is sitting back watching drug dealers take a profit that is rightfully the governments in my opinion.
The cons of smoking cannabis are increasing chance of scitzofrenia and also psychosis. I actualy know people that were in mental care with these mental issues BUT not only cannabis was used they also used various products of LSD, cocaine, etc. So i doubt it was cannabis alone that causes these issues. And with legalisation scientists would get the chance to try alter the formula terminating these mental issues and paranoia.
The pros on the otherhand, is more so altering mind if some one suffers from chronic pain, cancer , sleeping disorders such as sleep apnea and insomnia, eating disorders, arthritis and also social issues as in: being nervous around others etc.

niemad

I have read through a lot of the posts here, not all. The amount of information is staggering. I have smoked regularly for 8 years and i believe that cannabis do have negative effects, but the worst effects are because its illegal.

I believe that the prohibition of cannabis causes a distrust in most authority figures politicians and gardaí alike. Which can manifest in paranoia and anti-social behavior because said person might feel anxious that they might get "lifted" carrying something on the street. Paranoia and anxiety are listed as the bad side effect of the drug but I think that its this distrust that plays a big part as a cause. I would like to feel that I'm a part of an honest society, but sadly we are not. There is so much mis-information that still hangs on in some peoples heads, as this thread has conformed so much

I would like to also say that Amsterdam has been mentioned a few times as an example to use of what it would be like if cannabis was decriminalised in Ireland is a bad example to use. Is that the only city in Holland people have heard of?? I have been in Amsterdam twice, I liked the smoke of course but its was way too expensive and way too seedy for me. So last year I went to Eindhoven, this was a much nicer city altogether, no seediness, no junkies, no drug dealers whispers!! very friendly prices in pubs and restaurants and the coffee shops where fairly inconspicuous. It took me around half an hour to find one, but my points is that if you don't like cannabis you probably wouldn't notice the cafe/shops or there customers. Also the weed in Eindhoven was cheaper and nicer than Amsterdam:D

Kurtosis

I notice that one of the reasons often used to support the case for legalising cannabis is its potential uses in the treatment of pain, cancer, arthritis and other illnesses. It really intrigues me how such evidence is going to further the case for legalisation.

If medical uses do get approved here, the only result will be declassification of cannabis from Schedule 1 controlled drug to one of the lower schedules. The only way this will result in increased availability is if you happen to be a person suffering from one of the indicated diseases. These are serious diseases requiring medical diagnosis, monitoring and supervision, so the treatment will not be available over-the-counter.

masteroftherealm

penguin88 wrote: »

These are serious diseases requiring medical diagnosis, monitoring and supervision, so the treatment will not be available over-the-counter.

Nope have lived with Poly-Systematical Junior Arthritis all my life and there is no system of supervision or monitoring, yet I would be classified (And have been abroad) as a candidate for medical cannabis. So it would be available as a prescription only medication (Speaking in relation to the medial cannabis aspect)

Kurtosis

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Nope have lived with Poly-Systematical Junior Arthritis all my life and there is no system of supervision or monitoring, yet I would be classified (And have been abroad) as a candidate for medical cannabis. So it would be available as a prescription only medication (Speaking in relation to the medial cannabis aspect)

That's my point though, it's going to be available as prescription-only, not over-the-counter, due to the nature of conditions that it could be used for (i.e. not self-diagnosable).

If I may ask (though I realise it may be a sensitive issue, so feel free not to answer), when you say there are no systems of supervision/monitoring, do you have no interaction with a medical professional in the management of your condition?