Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

mikom

the groutch wrote: »

So if people want it legallised, then fine, but be ready to have people on every corner begging/theiving/mugging to fund their habit.

Shock........... uninformed post is uninformed.

irishdude87

Cannabis does not cause throat cancer or lung cancer! There has never been a recorded incident where anyone has ever died from cannabis. In fact it would take about 15,000 Joints in 20 minutes to get a toxic reaction!! pharmaceutical companies and Alcohol companies all want it illegal as it will drive their sales down by billions. if you believe that cannabis should be illegal cause of dangerous driving than alcohol should be illegal too!

Cannabis being Illegal by right means that ciggarettes and alcohol and coffee should all be illegal too!!

It prob will not fix the recession but it couldnt possibly make it worse!! It would boost tourism and would generate money for Ireland plus it will also stop generating money for criminals, which cannabis smokers have to deal with!

FOR FECK SAKE PEOPLE ITS A PLANT!!! THE MOST USEFUL PLANT IN THE WORLD AND IT CAN GROW ALMOST ANYWHERE!!

Plus its is Non-addictive!! Proven!

watch- the Union: The business behind getting high. It s a great Canadian documentry which explains why cannabis is illegal and its effects etc!!

FreudianSlippers

I'm jumping in this one late because I didn't see this thread before, but I have to agree that cannabis should be legalised and taxed just like alcohol and cigarettes.

Well, more like alcohol actually. Dispensaries can be established throughout the country (a la Booze to Go) where valid ID must be shown and the cannabis is sold.
This would be able to be grown in Ireland, picked in Ireland, sold in Ireland and revenues would go straight back into Ireland.
This is not to mention the number of jobs it would create and the potential tax revenues.

Our farmers are out protesting on a monthly basis that they cannot keep up with the low prices of goods from Europe and otherwise. This would give our farmers a stable crop that they could grow, harvest and sell at a large profit. Not to mention that the hemp by-product is also useful in daily life and can be sold for further profit to the farmer.

FreudianSlippers

irishdude87 wrote: »

Cannabis does not cause throat cancer or lung cancer! There has never been a recorded incident where anyone has ever died from cannabis. In fact it would take about 15,000 Joints in 20 minutes to get a toxic reaction!! pharmaceutical companies and Alcohol companies all want it illegal as it will drive their sales down by billions. if you believe that cannabis should be illegal cause of dangerous driving than alcohol should be illegal too!

Cannabis being Illegal by right means that ciggarettes and alcohol and coffee should all be illegal too!!

It prob will not fix the recession but it couldnt possibly make it worse!! It would boost tourism and would generate money for Ireland plus it will also stop generating money for criminals, which cannabis smokers have to deal with!

FOR FECK SAKE PEOPLE ITS A PLANT!!! THE MOST USEFUL PLANT IN THE WORLD AND IT CAN GROW ALMOST ANYWHERE!!

Plus its is Non-addictive!! Proven!

watch- the Union: The business behind getting high. It s a great Canadian documentry which explains why cannabis is illegal and its effects etc!!

That said, tobacco is a plant too... it's just the other crap they put in there (rat poison etc.) that makes it so poisonous.

If we legalised the sale of marijuana in this country it could be sold in either 'bud' form or in 'joint' form. Regulations could stipulate that 'joint' form marijuana 'cigarettes' must not contain any additive or other ingredient than the marijuana leaves/buds or hashish itself.
This would alleviate any fears that additional harmful ingredients are being added to the product.

If other choose to 'cut' their marijuana 'cigarettes' with tobacco, then that is their own prerogative

oconcuc

OisinT wrote: »

I'm jumping in this one late because I didn't see this thread before, but I have to agree that cannabis should be legalised and taxed just like alcohol and cigarettes.

Well, more like alcohol actually. Dispensaries can be established throughout the country (a la Booze to Go) where valid ID must be shown and the cannabis is sold.
This would be able to be grown in Ireland, picked in Ireland, sold in Ireland and revenues would go straight back into Ireland.
This is not to mention the number of jobs it would create and the potential tax revenues.

Our farmers are out protesting on a monthly basis that they cannot keep up with the low prices of goods from Europe and otherwise. This would give our farmers a stable crop that they could grow, harvest and sell at a large profit. Not to mention that the hemp by-product is also useful in daily life and can be sold for further profit to the farmer.

I just want to say, in spite of earlier posts, that there is a real danger of overestimating the actual financial benefits to the state in legalising cannabis alone. Even if it were legalised, the increase in use would be marginal. Look at the native alcohol producing industry, and its impact on agricultural revenues. Given so few farmers benefit from crops grown in support of an industry that has huge support amongst the population, as well as huge use, it is hard to see that legalising cannabis would have much of an effect in remedying the woes of our farmers.

The main economic and social benefits I believe would flow from significant savings in the area of Criminal Justice, and a modest exchequer return. In terms of employment, I believe any system of regulation would have to be strict in order to dissuade the hordes of drug-tourists Amsterdam enjoys every year, unless other countries bite the bullet before us, which is fairly likely. That would mean very limited point-of-sale stores.

Given the small market being supplied, (as under current legal regimes around Europe, we would not be exporting legally) there would not be a need for a large number of farmers growing, to satisfy demands.

It would certainly not, as the name of this thread claims, be a silver bullet for dealing with our current economic catastrophe.

The arguments for legalisation are much stronger from a purely social-justice perspective.

FreudianSlippers

I'm certainly not claiming that it would be the cure-all, but as you say there would be massive savings in criminal justice coupled with increases in tax revenue and some new jobs for farmers.

Certainly not all farmers can start growing marijuana, but some can.
Obviously shops aren't going to open up all over the place, but some will open in the cities (look at how profitable headshops were).
Even without an increase in use, enough people use cannabis now (while illegal) that money spent going to drug dealers would be going to the government and legitimate businesses and growers. This is not to mention a marginal increase in people who would smoke marijuana but for it's illegality.

I think if we showed initiative by legalising and attempting to control the sale of drugs and adequately dealing with so-called "drug tourism" other countries could follow suit.

That being said, I do not actually use marijuana or cannabis at all although I did when I was a teenager. I am one of those that would probably not start buying it just because it is legal, but I can certainly say that 50% of the people I know would start using it off and on if it was legal - and only about 10% of those people use it now while illegal. Many of them, if not most, are educated and have jobs/careers.

oconcuc

OisinT wrote: »

That being said, I do not actually use marijuana or cannabis at all although I did when I was a teenager. I am one of those that would probably not start buying it just because it is legal, but I can certainly say that 50% of the people I know would start using it off and on if it was legal - and only about 10% of those people use it now while illegal. Many of them, if not most, are educated and have jobs/careers.

Cannabis use, unlike alcohol, in a majority of people who use it, tends to reduce and disappear once people are out of their early to mid 20's. This is generally the same as with other drugs such as MDMA and LSD. Unlike alcohol, heroin, cocaine and tobacco, where in many more cases, use can increase rapidly for long periods of time, regardless of age and social setting.

I myself, like my entire peer group from the West of Ireland during the mid 1990's, regularly used cannabis and ecstacy until we were finished University. But now, less than one in ten would ever use anything other than cannabis, and even then, that would be extremely rarely.

We all continue to drink regularly, a significant number of us irresponsibly.

This is the important distinction between substances with a high potential for abuse, and those that do not. Cannabis has a very low potential for abuse, and long term regular use beyond puberty.

So, if you introduce an effective system of regulation, one not modeled on alcohol sales, as this system it can be accepted has failed to improve consumption habits, more effective controls on underage use could be introduced. If underage use is more closely scrutinised and policed, instead of policing all use and prosecuting it under the criminal law, it is not difficult to envisage a scenario where it would be far more difficult to obtain cannabis while under age than it is currently.

In my own experience, we were living in a very isolated, rural part of the West of Ireland, during a time when the area was still socially very conservative. Yet, in spite of this, it was extremely easy to obtain cannabis, ecstacy, LSD and of course magic mushrooms, as soon as we were free to roam about the area without our parents.

I purchased cannabis for the first time when I was 12 years old. Ecstacy when I was 16, and myself and my friends went picking mushrooms from when we were all 15-17.

We were not part of a socially excluded group. We all participated in local community activities. Played GAA and football until we left the area for University or work. Many, if not most of my friend were regular church attenders. We were the typical teenagers of rural or urban Ireland.

And for those of you under the misapprehension that any illicit substance use destroys your lives, only one of our group has suffered due to substance abuse, and that was alcohol addiction, which killed her. The rest of us all pursued normal, often successful, careers, some even eventually made it into law-enforcement, though not in Ireland.

Drug use is a common part of growing up in Ireland, as it is in many other countries. Some believe it is wrong, and needs to be eradicated. But the realities show that, despite high rates of use in Ireland, we have a low crime rate compared to our neighbors in the rest of EU or English speaking world. And none of the previous or current economic disasters can be attributed to drug use.

Drug use isn't destroying our societies, though poverty induced drug-use may be destroying certain communities.

Bottle_of_Smoke

What's almost annoying is that all these good arguments will be ignored. It will become legalised but only because California, the rest of the US and the UK legalised it first.

That suggestion to struggling farmers might have something in it though. You'd never know how big a difference having the IFA onside could make!

loveweed

ive heard over and over again that cannabis has a lot of medicinal uses ,

what do u think ?

ordinarywoman

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055846477 ....makes some very interesting points

sparkling sea

All drugs should be legalised as I am sure our government knows but who will risk losing votes by legalising them - noone

Alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack when the overall dangers to the individual and society are considered, according to a study in the Lancet.

Heroin, crack and crystal meth were deemed worst for individuals, with alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine worst for society, and alcohol worst overall.

The study involved 16 criteria, including a drug's affects on users' physical and mental health, social harms including crime, "family adversities" and environmental damage, economic costs and "international damage".
'Valid and necessary'.

Corsendonk

OisinT wrote: »

I'm certainly not claiming that it would be the cure-all, but as you say there would be massive savings in criminal justice coupled with increases in tax revenue and some new jobs for farmers.

Certainly not all farmers can start growing marijuana, but some can.
Obviously shops aren't going to open up all over the place, but some will open in the cities (look at how profitable headshops were).
Even without an increase in use, enough people use cannabis now (while illegal) that money spent going to drug dealers would be going to the government and legitimate businesses and growers. This is not to mention a marginal increase in people who would smoke marijuana but for it's illegality.

I think if we showed initiative by legalising and attempting to control the sale of drugs and adequately dealing with so-called "drug tourism" other countries could follow suit.

That being said, I do not actually use marijuana or cannabis at all although I did when I was a teenager. I am one of those that would probably not start buying it just because it is legal, but I can certainly say that 50% of the people I know would start using it off and on if it was legal - and only about 10% of those people use it now while illegal. Many of them, if not most, are educated and have jobs/careers.

Not from a horticulture background? Change the word farmer to market gardener. There the guys with all the heated glasshouses needed to grown cannabis in this climate and the IFA don't even know they exist.

I know of one facility in Ireland that could be switched to cannabis production 12 months of the year easily. Its consider one of the best greenhouse facilities in Europe. It has sufficient area for security fencing which will be needed. Downside is the owners own 700 acres right beside Dublin airport and the company they run turns over 100 million a year so your hardly helping poor farmers out.

FTA69

we have a low crime rate compared to our neighbors in the rest of EU

We do in our arse, we have one of the highest crime rates in the EU.

Regards drug-tourists, I fail to see how this would be inherently negative. Could you honestly say the situation you have in Temple Bar on a Saturday night is any better than what you see in Amsterdam? To be honest it's only the tiny Red Light District that's truly sleazy over there, and even then it's been cleaned up a lot recently. The rest of the Centrum is grand and outside of that you wouldn't see any marked evidence of "drug-tourism". Even the sh*ttier aspects of Amsterdam are far superior to the sink estates you see in this country.

As for farmers, top quality grass is grown indoors in relatively small quantities. Most of the coffeeshops in the Netherlands are supplied from small greenhouse jobs, there'd be no question of switching some auld fella with 80 odd acres into producing a load of chronic.

DIRTY69

loveweed wrote: »

ive heard over and over again that cannabis has a lot of medicinal uses ,

what do u think ?

I don't smoke myself or take any kinds of stimulants, but I think mary jane should be decriminalized and regulated, its a good tax revenue and safer than alcohol imho. Then again there is a lot of 'haze' surrounding this issue if you can excuse the pun!

I think most people have a bit more cop on now to realise that weed is that harmful, we have caffine, alcohol, sugar and nicotine as stimulants that do a lot more damage than weed. If there was a company that saw the right profit margins in it, they would legalize in a flash, cos most of these agri-business companies don't care about anyone's health, if they did than they wouldn't sell us fruit and veg which is genetically modified and sprayed with all kinds of insecticides and pesticides. It's all about profit management, not people care and not earth care.

Spacedog

Victor wrote: »

Are you saying that cannabis smoking doesn't cause lung or throat cancers and the associated intoxication doesn't cause accidents?

have you ever seen a stoner driving? they go 5 mph and drive extra attentively and carefully!

cannabis is like abortion, jedgmental people want to choose for everyone else, they would rather have gangsters shooting their kids over turf than let a teenager* listen to some tunes and have a smoke in peace.

Pure Spite IMO.

*who works in mcdonnalds for minimum wage -1euro

Corsendonk

DIRTY69 wrote: »

I don't smoke myself or take any kinds of stimulants, but I think mary jane should be decriminalized and regulated, its a good tax revenue and safer than alcohol imho. Then again there is a lot of 'haze' surrounding this issue if you can excuse the pun!

I think most people have a bit more cop on now to realise that weed is that harmful, we have caffine, alcohol, sugar and nicotine as stimulants that do a lot more damage than weed. If there was a company that saw the right profit margins in it, they would legalize in a flash, cos most of these agri-business companies don't care about anyone's health, if they did than they wouldn't sell us fruit and veg which is genetically modified and sprayed with all kinds of insecticides and pesticides. It's all about profit management, not people care and not earth care.

Have you got any examples of this genetic modified fruit or vegetables in Ireland? Or got any idea of the amount of testing done on fruit and vegetables for pesticide residues?

No point killing your customers, you go out of business quickly and pesticide treatments arn't cheap thats why biological controls are now used if possible to control pests.

FTA69

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Top quality cannabis is grown under the sun but with smaller yields. Indoors: less quality, more quantity. Just puttin that out there.

Nope, all that 25% THC cannabis is grown indoors with a system of lights and sometimes using hydroponics. Grass grown outside is way less potent.

DIRTY69

Corsendonk wrote: »

Have you got any examples of this genetic modified fruit or vegetables in Ireland? Or got any idea of the amount of testing done on fruit and vegetables for pesticide residues?

No point killing your customers, you go out of business quickly and pesticide treatments arn't cheap thats why biological controls are now used if possible to control pests.

I agree but of course, you can't trace the cause. The real issue is that people are devoid of nutrients these days, from the two extremes of the typical view of Africa's most needy to the affluence of Americas rich and fat society. Both don't get enough nutrients from their soil. Our agricultural system is flawed and it is well document on how monoculture systems of only growing one crop on the land damage the natural ecosystem over time.

More people are dying of diseases such as cancer and heart disease, which in my findings are down to lifestyle and overall health. What else could they be down to at the end of the day. When people don't look after themselves they have worse immune systems and they are more sick, and are more likely to catch disease over time.

The situation isn't as bad here as America but its of great concern especially for the health of future generations. There's never been a time in history where we've manipulated and ignored nature so much. As regards examples, there are a few resources below for you mate.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/ireland-says-not-in-this-country-bans-gm-crops.php

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/08/17/banned-throughout-europe-monsantos-gm-corn-found-growing-in-ireland/

http://www.gmfreeireland.org/food/index.php

http://www.gmfreeireland.org/

Sorry to go off topic! It's something that should concern smokers too, of course weed could be sprayed with just about anything, and of course if it was decriminalised and regulated then it would mean that what you buy from cafes and such would be regulated and subject to safety laws.

deise go deo

Legalising Canabis wouldent generate enough profit for the state to pay for the dole used to buy it.

DIRTY69

deise go deo wrote: »

Legalising Canabis wouldent generate enough profit for the state to pay for the dole used to buy it.

No, but it would be keep them calm! lol

Elevator

Corsendonk wrote: »

Have you got any examples of this genetic modified fruit or vegetables in Ireland? Or got any idea of the amount of testing done on fruit and vegetables for pesticide residues?

No point killing your customers, you go out of business quickly and pesticide treatments arn't cheap thats why biological controls are now used if possible to control pests.

so benson & hedges and marlboro are actually extending my life?!?

thank fcuk for that cos I thought for a second there that some companies are allowed sell death in boxes of 10's and 20's but obviously all that is bad for us has been removed from society and we now have a life expectancy for 200 years!

Corsendonk

DIRTY69 wrote: »

I agree but of course, you can't trace the cause. The real issue is that people are devoid of nutrients these days, from the two extremes of the typical view of Africa's most needy to the affluence of Americas rich and fat society. Both don't get enough nutrients from their soil. Our agricultural system is flawed and it is well document on how monoculture systems of only growing one crop on the land damage the natural ecosystem over time.

More people are dying of diseases such as cancer and heart disease, which in my findings are down to lifestyle and overall health. What else could they be down to at the end of the day. When people don't look after themselves they have worse immune systems and they are more sick, and are more likely to catch disease over time.

The situation isn't as bad here as America but its of great concern especially for the health of future generations. There's never been a time in history where we've manipulated and ignored nature so much. As regards examples, there are a few resources below for you mate.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/ireland-says-not-in-this-country-bans-gm-crops.php

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/08/17/banned-throughout-europe-monsantos-gm-corn-found-growing-in-ireland/

http://www.gmfreeireland.org/food/index.php

http://www.gmfreeireland.org/

Sorry to go off topic! It's something that should concern smokers too, of course weed could be sprayed with just about anything, and of course if it was decriminalised and regulated then it would mean that what you buy from cafes and such would be regulated and subject to safety laws.

Thanks mate but I happen to have a Horticulture background and I keep up to date with GM crop developments and EU developments on GM. Your links don't really back up your original statement about agri businesses selling us GM fruit and veg. Only a minor % of crops are GM and mainly animal feed so can you tone down your remarks or you will have everyone convinced the fruit and veg department in Dunnes/Tesco has all GM crops.

Most likely if it is decriminalised it will be for medical reasons so it will be governed by the Irish Medicines Board.

Corsendonk

Elevator wrote: »

so benson & hedges and marlboro are actually extending my life?!?

thank fcuk for that cos I thought for a second there that some companies are allowed sell death in boxes of 10's and 20's but obviously all that is bad for us has been removed from society and we now have a life expectancy for 200 years!

I think you either misread my post or you eat cigs. We are talking about the agri Food business.

Elevator

Corsendonk wrote: »

Most likely if it is decriminalised it will be for medical reasons so it will be governed by the Irish Medicines Board.

can you explain how the fruit from tescos,'lidl and aldi last so long then?

also, afaik we don't need the medicines board for medicinal cannabis

the company supplying medical cannabis to eu countries (cannabisbureau.nl) based in Netherlands can export to Ireland in the morning if a pharmacy/chemist simply fills out the order form on their website,

I have been in touch and it really is that simple!!

if I only had a pharmacy licence I'd be ordering it in by the ton and feic our corrupt government!!

FTA69

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Depends on conditions/climate which we dont have here.

No it doesn't. Even the best quality outdoor grown stuff can never rival the potent, artificially-flowered cannabis that can be produced indoors with hydroponics etc.

Oh_Noes

FTA69 wrote: »

No it doesn't. Even the best quality outdoor grown stuff can never rival the potent, artificially-flowered cannabis that can be produced indoors with hydroponics etc.

In a legal context though, indoor growing wouldn't be viable anymore because of the scale of commercial growing operations. I completely agree with your point but I don't think massive indoor growing warehouses will be set up here when it is legalised.

Autoflowering strains that have been crossed with rhuderalis grow in nearly every climate all-year 'round and I can see Ireland-specific strains being developed along those lines to suit the agricultural climate.

I would never be sure about making the argument that somehow becoming a cannabis exporter would save our economy because we don;t have the climate to produce competitively high quality product in large quantities in comparison with other countries.

Hemp on the other hand, is really the cash crop and I think we could produce that to a very high standard even in our climate.

Oh_Noes

deise go deo wrote: »

Legalising Canabis wouldent generate enough profit for the state to pay for the dole used to buy it.

This statement is a complete contradiction. Whatever dole money is spent on cannabis right now is completely lost to the state. If they could tax it they'd probably get a huge chuck of that money back immediately.

Elevator

as far as I know we don't need the medicines board for medicinal cannabis

the company supplying medical cannabis to eu countries (cannabisbureau.nl) based in Netherlands can export to Ireland in the morning if a pharmacy/chemist simply fills out the order form on their website,

I have been in touch and it really is that simple!!

if I only had a pharmacy licence I'd be ordering it in by the ton and feic our corrupt government!!

I need my fookin medicine for PTSD and I'm not joking

today would have such a good day if I had my thc and cbd's!!

instead I've spent the day in bed depressed to fcuk

Oh_Noes

I think that medical route is a bad idea though to be honest. I did see your post before you took it down and it was quite surprising. But from reading about Prop 19 in California last month, it seems that the full recreational legalisation of MJ lost by 52% to 48% at the last hurdle because the medical cannabis industry was worried about the competition and challenge to their monopoly of the industry.

Ironic to think that the people actually working in the legal sector of the marijuana industry played a part in keeping it illegal there.

Elevator

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I think that medical route is a bad idea though to be honest. I did see your post before you took it down and it was quite surprising. But from reading about Prop 19 in California last month, it seems that the full recreational legalisation of MJ lost by 52% to 48% at the last hurdle because the medical cannabis industry was worried about the competition and challenge to their monopoly of the industry.

Ironic to think that the people actually working in the legal sector of the marijuana industry played a part in keeping it illegal there.

I presume you're talking to me here but to be honest I couldn't give a fiddlers what the yanks vote for or against, it's this country I'm concerned about

if it wasn't for america the world could still enjoy a smoke when we liked and benefited from the hemp!

screw Americas twisted and corrupted decisions! I want medicinal grade cannabis here now! the eu is so screwed it has given the green light for member states to regulate and sell whatever drug it wants.

if I had a pharmacy I would have no hesitation in importing it and making it available to the public with a script from their gp