Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

Oh_Noes

Elevator wrote: »

I presume you're talking to me here but to be honest I couldn't give a fiddlers what the yanks vote for or against, it's this country I'm concerned about

if it wasn't for america the world could still enjoy a smoke when we liked and benefited from the hemp!

screw Americas twisted and corrupted decisions! I want medicinal grade cannabis here now! the eu is so screwed it has given the green light for member states to regulate and sell whatever drug it wants.

if I had a pharmacy I would have no hesitation in importing it and making it available to the public with a script from their gp

Yeah sorry was referring to you with the info about the system of pharmacists and Dutch companies etc..

The statement from the EU this week was based on what happened in California because the US drug laws are federal whereas they very nearly legalised it in their state, so there would have been a huge conflict there. This is why the EU clarified their position this week that if member states want to legalise stuff, there won't be any conflict there.

What's happening in America is important because if they legalise it, we will be exposed to it through the media a lot. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Elevator

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yeah sorry was referring to you with the info about the system of pharmacists and Dutch companies etc..

The statement from the EU this week was based on what happened in California because the US drug laws are federal whereas they very nearly legalised it in their state, so there would have been a huge conflict there. This is why the EU clarified their position this week that if member states want to legalise stuff, there won't be any conflict there.

What's happening in America is important because if they legalise it, we will be exposed to it through the media a lot. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

i wish I could share your enthusiasm but seeing the reaction around the world to cablegate I can't really see the yanks legalising bud making too much of a stir imo

they're both very different topics but both problems (geo politics and cannabis prohibition) are yanky problems created by their own need to try control everything!!

we could keep going round in circles or some pharmacy owner can start importing medical bud straight into Ireland and nobody can stop them!

FTA69

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Off topic but here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmg_pMqOLj0&feature=channel

Skip to 1:40

Straight from the pro's

On topic..

The criminal gangs control the market which means they make millions while selling to anyone of any age. With a controlled market we could regulate the sales, bring in taxes, create jobs, save court time and money for simple possession etc

.

All your man said was that growing was forced indoors because of the "war on drugs" clampdown, he never said the outdoor stuff was more potent; because the fact is, it isn't. That nederweit you get in Amsterdam or the stuff grown indoors in British Columbia has a THC potency of up to 25%, that's impossible to get with outdoor growing.

Anyway, personally I don't smoke any of that brain rotting sh*t so it doesn't bother me, but the notion of it being illegal is ridiculous and a proven failure.

Amhran Nua

I'm definetely starting to come round to the idea of full legalisation for softer drugs like marijuana, and an absolute zero tolerance policy for the peddlers of harder drugs. I'd combine this with any taxation from the drugs being used in public education programmes to get people to stay away from the stuff, any stuff.

Why? This is why:

Oh_Noes

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I'm definetely starting to come round to the idea of full legalisation for softer drugs like marijuana, and an absolute zero tolerance policy for the peddlers of harder drugs. I'd combine this with any taxation from the drugs being used in public education programmes to get people to stay away from the stuff, any stuff.

Why? This is why:

It's worth noting as well that demand for the harder drugs would also fall over time if cannabis were legalised due to cannabis' current position as a "gateway" drug. The old system of the dealer offering the punter something harder (in order to get them hooked) would go away.

I believe the legalization of cannabis would actually result in there being less use of drugs like cocaine, ecstasy and heroin over time.

Amhran Nua

Oh_Noes wrote: »

It's worth noting as well that demand for the harder drugs would also fall over time if cannabis were legalised due to cannabis' current position as a "gateway" drug. The old system of the dealer offering the punter something harder (in order to get them hooked) would go away.

I believe the legalization of cannabis would actually result in there being less use of drugs like cocaine, ecstasy and heroin over time.

Its starting to look more and more like its the bread and butter of the criminal gangs who are terrorising our streets alright, they are being financed to the tune of hundreds of millions of euros. Here's one proposal that has been put forward for the process:

Put a licensing system into place, much like the medical marijuana system in California but with a view to recreational use instead of medical use.

For example: A personal license to grow up to four plants at a time for personal consumption. Such a license would come with a yearly license fee, and you'd be required to produce this license in order to purchase seeds and equipment. You could be vetted by the police in order to obtain this license.

There could also be a much more expensive commercial license, that would enable businesspeople to grow up to 100 plants in state-approved growing facilities. This could then be sold to the public in a limited quantity and taxed by the state.

Perhaps even a lesser license or "cannabis card" at a small cost for the casual user who would pay a small yearly fee to have this card renewed. He would then produce his car to purchase up to 25 grams or so of cannabis for personal use. This card may require approval or a reference from the gardai.

The key to this would be to keep the regulation cheap enough as to avoid creating a black market, but high enough to benefit the state through taxes and licensing fees.

The carding might be neccessary to prevent dealers buying buckets of the stuff over the counter then taking the ferry to the UK or Europe.

Beaucoupfish

Crime has reduced in Holland. They are actually proposing to close prisons and are now importing convicts from Belgium.

I'm growing my own weed now rather than funding scumbags.

Oh_Noes

Beaucoupfish wrote: »

Crime has reduced in Holland. They are actually proposing to close prisons and are now importing convicts from Belgium.

I'm growing my own weed now rather than funding scumbags.

The irony of this is that if you're caught (it happens- trust me, I know) garda time and money will be spent on arresting you and prosecuting you for it.

Best of luck with it though, Just remember- "No tell, no sell, no smell"

Elevator

Oh_Noes wrote: »

It's worth noting as well that demand for the harder drugs would also fall over time if cannabis were legalised due to cannabis' current position as a "gateway" drug. The old system of the dealer offering the punter something harder (in order to get them hooked) would go away.

I believe the legalization of cannabis would actually result in there being less use of drugs like cocaine, ecstasy and heroin over time.

cannabis is the most used drug out of all the current illegals and will never be topped even if they legalised them all!

"free the weed, free the people, simples!!"

ISAW

Oh_Noes wrote: »

It's worth noting as well that demand for the harder drugs would also fall over time if cannabis were legalised due to cannabis' current position as a "gateway" drug. The old system of the dealer offering the punter something harder (in order to get them hooked) would go away.

I believe the legalization of cannabis would actually result in there being less use of drugs like cocaine, ecstasy and heroin over time.

What evidence do yu have to support this belief?

And as for the "legalise it so we can tax it" if it is wrong it is wrong and making an economic argument is facile. You may as well say "legalise cannibalism so we can cut down on poor people being a drain on the state because they have to get dole money for food by having them eat their own kids"

Im not opposed to soft drugs by the way it is just one cant conflate moral and economic arguments.

furthermore, the idea about "gateway" drugs is I believe a myth and legal prostitution cutting criminal prostitutes is also a myth.

Ther is evidence legal soft drugs encourages use of other drugs. It is a bit like saying "legalise knives and gun crime will decrease" If knives are wrong why legalise them and if you legalise them it wont cut down on harder violence.

ISAW

Beaucoupfish wrote: »

Crime has reduced in Holland. They are actually proposing to close prisons and are now importing convicts from Belgium.

Can you support this claim?

I'm growing my own weed now rather than funding scumbags.

good for you. so you admit paying for cannibis is supporting organised criminal gangs?

In fact the prison population in Holland has been dropping from 2004-2008 but has only reached 2002 levels and increased from 1997 till 2002
http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=crim_pris&lang=en

Crime in Holland follows a similar trend but it is has really been increasing in Italy.

FTA69

ISAW wrote: »

Ther is evidence legal soft drugs encourages use of other drugs.

Soft drugs are illegal here and yet we have some the highest drug use in the European Union. Cannabis use is also higher in Ireland than it is in the Netherlands I think. That having been said Irish people just do the dog on drink and drugs in a way our European neighbours don't.

It is a bit like saying "legalise knives and gun crime will decrease" If knives are wrong why legalise them and if you legalise them it wont cut down on harder violence.

That's a ridiculous analogy. Using cannabis isn't inherently morally "wrong", stabbing someone with a knife or shooting is.

Oh_Noes

ISAW wrote: »

What evidence do yu have to support this belief?

And as for the "legalise it so we can tax it" if it is wrong it is wrong and making an economic argument is facile. You may as well say "legalise cannibalism so we can cut down on poor people being a drain on the state because they have to get dole money for food by having them eat their own kids"

Im not opposed to soft drugs by the way it is just one cant conflate moral and economic arguments.

furthermore, the idea about "gateway" drugs is I believe a myth and legal prostitution cutting criminal prostitutes is also a myth.

Ther is evidence legal soft drugs encourages use of other drugs. It is a bit like saying "legalise knives and gun crime will decrease" If knives are wrong why legalise them and if you legalise them it wont cut down on harder violence.

The evidence that I have to support the belief that buying cannabis on the street leads to harder drugs is from personal experience and the experience of people I know. It's extremely common for this to happen and to suggest it doesn't would be very naiive.

I don't think anyone is trying to make an argument based on the idea that "cannabis is wrong, but we can make money from it if we tax it". No one that wants to legalise it believes cannabis is wrong. There are a myriad of reasons why people want to legalise it, the economic one has just become more relevant in relation to the situation in Ireland.

masterkio

its prob already bin said here, but it the un-informed public needs to be re-educated about the in's & out of cannabis. this is where alot of people's fustration comes from. Partically people who have taken the time to have another at this subject.
any one who looks into this will find that the benifit's out weigh the risks.

Partically when it comes to the almost endless amount of uses it has.
it shoud be legalized in some form or another for that reason alone.

ISAW

FTA69 wrote: »

ISAW wrote: »

Soft drugs are illegal here

Well?
apart from Alcohol and perscribed drugs and some drugs you can get in headshops.

and yet we have some the highest drug use in the European Union.

REally? HOW high? Can you support this claim?

Cannabis use is also higher in Ireland than it is in the Netherlands I think.

Really? Can you support this claim?

That having been said Irish people just do the dog on drink and drugs in a way our European neighbours don't.

SOME Irish people or maybe many Irish but Ireland also has a tradition of abstinence and teetotalers.

Some irish people indulge in violence and terrorism but that doesn't mean the Irish are a drunken violent terrorists.

That's a ridiculous analogy. Using cannabis isn't inherently morally "wrong", stabbing someone with a knife or shooting is.

But some people believe it is wrong and that is the reason the law exists in the first place. It is your OPINION that it isn't morally wrong but you can say the same of child sex or prostitution or slapping children. some people believe all of those things are wrong but most believe ( with the exception of slapping) that they are wrong enough to make them illegal irrespective of whether or not they make money.

ISAW

Oh_Noes wrote: »

The evidence that I have to support the belief that buying cannabis on the street leads to harder drugs

But there is also evidence that people who have not bought cannibius went straight to harder drugs. and also that alcohol and teenage drinking is as common a vector as cannabis.

is from personal experience and the experience of people I know.

Personal opinion isn't reliable objective evidence in an argument.

It's extremely common for this to happen and to suggest it doesn't would be very naiive.

I'm suggesting thathttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69590863#post69590863 your point that segregating cannabis as a single causal factor in hard drug use is not supported by any evidence you have provided.

I don't think anyone is trying to make an argument based on the idea that "cannabis is wrong, but we can make money from it if we tax it".

Just read the thread title would you?

No one that wants to legalise it believes cannabis is wrong.

Exactly! They are biased! Most people however it would seem believe taking cannabis is wrong. People who want to legalise suicide or child sex dont believe it is wroing either. that isnt sufficient reason to make it legal!

There are a myriad of reasons why people want to legalise it, the economic one has just become more relevant in relation to the situation in Ireland.

If there are a myriad would you care to supply say FIVE of them?

ISAW

masterkio wrote: »

its prob already bin said here, but it the un-informed public needs to be re-educated about the in's & out of cannabis.

Great! So care to educate us? How are the public uninformed?

this is where alot of people's fustration comes from. Partically people who have taken the time to have another at this subject.
any one who looks into this will find that the benifit's out weigh the risks.

Talking down to the proles with "daddy knows better" sweeping statements isn't going to get you anywhere except lumped in with the politicians.

Partically when it comes to the almost endless amount of uses it has.
it shoud be legalized in some form or another for that reason alone.

ROTFLOL! Legal cannabis because you know better and most people are ignorant?
Why don't you try convincing people then since you claim to know so much and that they don't?

Does anyone really believe that the publicans would allow cannabis to be legalised? At a time when no FF politician would speak out against NAMA they mobilized quite a few to speak out against the new drink driving laws. Because that's whats really important in this country - people getting steaming drunk on expensive alcohol and all the accidents and fights and hangovers/depression it brings.

A few people chilling out with a joint? Lock them up!

Elevator

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Does anyone really believe that the publicans would allow cannabis to be legalised? At a time when no FF politician would speak out against NAMA they mobilized quite a few to speak out against the new drink driving laws. Because that's whats really important in this country - people getting steaming drunk on expensive alcohol and all the accidents and fights and hangovers/depression it brings.

A few people chilling out with a joint? Lock them up!

all the while Brussles have already told us that they don't mind if Ireland regulates and sells cannabis or any of the other current illegals. coming from the same authority who signed off on the banning ofthe headstores not so long ago. their minds have changed very fast indeed!

we can already challenge Irelands reasons to block the Shenghan agreement as the UK has had to back down on their similar stance. theres lots of people in the uk now ordering their medicnal cannabis from cannabisbureau.nl and I'm fcuked if I have to do without all because our government want to be the only ones to go against something they signed up to in the first place!!

masterkio

ISAW wrote: »

Great! So care to educate us? How are the public uninformed?



Talking down to the proles with "daddy knows better" sweeping statements isn't going to get you anywhere except lumped in with the politicians.



ROTFLOL! Legal cannabis because you know better and most people are ignorant?
Why don't you try convincing people then since you claim to know so much and that they don't?

i say some of that based on my own experience asking people in general what they make of cannabis.the usual responce is the main stream answer '' ban it & keep it that way. in so many words at least.

its not very often i find someone with an informed answer.
this is the point i'm trying make. we need alot more people with that informed answer to really get things to change..?
i mean no offence, its just my personal experience.

I have tried to convince people that i know, most are some what open to the idea after explaining the in's & out's of the subject.
but normally, before that, it like a brick wall ya have to knock down cos the idea of cannabis being a such bad thing is so engrained in them.

I find that its the younger generation that is mostly informed about the true protenical of this plant.

can i ask.
Are you for or againist cannabis..?

I'm not expert, but i have spent a great deal of time looking at both sides of the arguement. the Rick Simspon Story is what got me interested it this.
before hand i was totally againist it.

my own conclusion is that it should legelized in some form or another.
what ever way its done is another matter, but its certainly better than it being managed by the drug lords.

it shoud be knowin that i've never touched cannabis or any other drug of that nature.
I have tried here before to post a load of info, but the admin kept taking it down, so i gave up. so much for free speech.
I wouldn't mind but i had found some great info on it.

if you disagree, that fine too. we all have an opinion.

FTA69

Really? Can you support this claim?

http://www.drugwatch.org/Cannabis%20statistics%20Europe.htm

Here's what American cops have to say; Ireland, the UK, France and the Czech Republic all have a higher use of cannabis amongst youths than the Netherlands. Other studies I looked up showed Ireland in or around the same level as the Netherlands, but rates of use were much higher in France and the UK where cannabis is prohibited.

Regards other drugs,

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/stats08/gpsfig14a

This site shows related studies which show us to be one of the highest users of cocaine, we are in the top 6 for cannabis and in the top half for amphetamine and ecstasy use.

So there you are, you learn something new every day.

SOME Irish people or maybe many Irish but Ireland also has a tradition of abstinence and teetotalers.

True, we have a strong teetotal tradition. That doesn't equate with us not having a raging p*sshead culture in Ireland as well. I don't think anyone can seriously deny that we have an issue with alcohol in this country, needless to say we have one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in Europe. (Do I've to dig out statistics for that too?) That's just reality lad.

Some irish people indulge in violence and terrorism but that doesn't mean the Irish are a drunken violent terrorists.

Again a ridiculous analogy, widespread alcohol use in a given society is hardly comparable to terrorism.

But some people believe it is wrong and that is the reason the law exists in the first place. It is your OPINION that it isn't morally wrong but you can say the same of child sex or prostitution

No, you're coming out with ridiculous analogies again. A person making a personal choice to smoke a naturally occurring plant is not akin to raping a child or stabbing someone; the latter are actions that have an extremely negative impact on another unwilling individual, the former is a personal choice affecting no-one else.

So, as you can see, your comparisons are completely void.

Oh_Noes

ISAW wrote: »

But there is also evidence that people who have not bought cannibius went straight to harder drugs. and also that alcohol and teenage drinking is as common a vector as cannabis.

Personal opinion isn't reliable objective evidence in an argument.

Just read the thread title would you?

People who want to legalise suicide or child sex dont believe it is wroing either. that isnt sufficient reason to make it legal!

If there are a myriad would you care to supply say FIVE of them?

Yes there is evidence that people have gone on to use other drugs without using cannabis first. This doesn't cancel out the fact that a large percentage will have used cannabis first. Personal experience is very much a valid standpoint to make an argument from. Seems like you are looking for people to post links surveys and similar quantitative research. Here you go http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=2072&bih=887&q=studies+on+cannabis+as+a+gateway+drug&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=. Countless research projects are taking/have taken place on it and you will find evidence for both arguments. Your own experience will inform which standpoint you take.

The thread title doesn't in any way suggest cannabis is wrong.

Child abuse is illegal because it hurts people physically and mentally. Not because people disagree with the ethics of it. You'd be hard pushed to find anyone who wants to legalise child abuse. Consuming cannabis doesn't victimize anyone.

Yes, here are your five reasons people want to legalise cannabis: It's enjoyable to consume. It has uses in medicine. The bi-product (hemp) is environmentally friendlier than wood and more sustainable. It would take a lucative industry out of the hands of criminals. It would create jobs.

DIRTY69

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yes, here are your five reasons people want to legalise cannabis: It's enjoyable to consume. It has uses in medicine. The bi-product (hemp) is environmentally friendlier than wood and more sustainable. It would take a lucative industry out of the hands of criminals. It would create jobs.

Agreed. Like I said, I don't smoke myself, but I'll add another point there, for a FACT. You don't see smokers out having fights, causing social problems and abusing people on the streets. They are not a danger to society. Drink and caffeine are two drugs that caused more problems than weed ever did. Chill the **** out Ireland and get your head out of your depressing pints of beer and endless conversation about nothing, drinking the national obsession to forget yourself and the world you live in. Sorry, but wake the **** up to be honest.

goat2

Dob74 wrote: »

To say cannabis is competely harmless is rediculuce.
While its probably at the same level as alcohol as health goes.
Having more people stoned isnt going to get us out of the recession.

there are people who will go and buy the stuff from dealers anyway, and by legalising you stop the mob and druglords, just like beer and cigies, not everyone will take it just the few, then why not legalise the thing

DIRTY69

goat2 wrote: »

there are people who will go and buy the stuff from dealers anyway, and by legalising you stop the mob and druglords, just like beer and cigies, not everyone will take it just the few, then why not legalise the thing

Yep. I mean, I don't even care for my sake, but its to do with civil liberty. Why would I be considered a criminal if I choose to chill out by smoking something in my own home. What is it to you, and to the law?

Corsendonk

Elevator wrote: »

can you explain how the fruit from tescos,'lidl and aldi last so long then?

Improved refrigeration and storage technology in the supply chain, new cultivars from selective breeding for improved shelflife, improved logistics in supply chain, lack of consumer knowledge about fruit and veg, greater grower expertise. Need I go on?

Or are you going to repeat your carp that its genetic modified? Sure if it was GM wouldn't Greenpeace have let the cat out of the bag but thats boring, the conspiracy theory carping is more interesting than reading about a subject before becoming a keyboard warrior,
.

Oh_Noes

Corsendonk wrote: »

Improved refrigeration and storage technology in the supply chain, new cultivars from selective breeding for improved shelflife, improved logistics in supply chain, lack of consumer knowledge about fruit and veg, greater grower expertise. Need I go on?

Or are you going to repeat your carp that its genetic modified? Sure if it was GM wouldn't Greenpeace have let the cat out of the bag but thats boring, the conspiracy theory carping is more interesting than reading about a subject before becoming a keyboard warrior,
.

It's self-evident that the fruit in those places is utter shoite. Especially tesco's. And overpriced too.

Corsendonk

Its funny that because the guy that supplies most of the Irish soft fruit to Tesco in Ireland, supplies Superquinn, Supervalu, Dunnes, and M & S yet people still say tesco is crap. Perception?

ISAW

masterkio wrote: »

i say some of that based on my own experience asking people in general what they make of cannabis.the usual responce is the main stream answer '' ban it & keep it that way. in so many words at least.

its not very often i find someone with an informed answer.

So your reply to 2what evidence do you have?" is???
that you uninformed opinion is better than everyone elses? LOL!
WHAT informs your opinion?
What evidence do you have which makes you so "informed" as you claim?

this is the point i'm trying make. we need alot more people with that informed answer to really get things to change..?
i mean no offence, its just my personal experience.

You keep contradicting yourself! Now from your opinion which you have not convinced anyone is informed but you keep claiming it is ( without any factual support) you claim to speak for us - "we".


I'm certainly not offended by your opinion. I just don't see how you can claim it is any better than those you claim are uninformed.

I have tried to convince people that i know, most are some what open to the idea after explaining the in's & out's of the subject.

Wonderful ! Care to list five "ins" and five "outs" ?

but normally, before that, it like a brick wall ya have to knock down cos the idea of cannabis being a such bad thing is so engrained in them.

Well forget about any brick wall and let us get straight to your in's and outs shall we?
care to produce them?

I find that its the younger generation that is mostly informed about the true protenical of this plant.

another sweeping statement based on opinion no doubt. What evidence do you have to support that? I'm sure if you aks a 14 or 15 year old about sex they will tell you sex at their age is something that should be allowed. But it is illegal and when they reach 40 they will say that and they will not say that a 16 year old was more informed about it.

can i ask.
Are you for or againist cannabis..?

Yes you can.
i already answered that. Im not necessarily against it. But remember Im not making the argument for it. YOU are! It isnt for me to make any case for or against. Ill quite happily point out the falws in the arguments of thoise opposed to cannabis and the "reefer madness" history too. It was called "being informed " or "fair and balanced" last time I looked.

But my position for or against isn't important and is not on topic.

I'm not expert, but i have spent a great deal of time looking at both sides of the arguement. the Rick Simspon Story is what got me interested it this.
before hand i was totally againist it.

So what? I'm not particularly if you are on a personal crusade. If you have "ins and outs" tell us about them!

my own conclusion is that it should legelized in some form or another.

WHY? based on what evidence?

what ever way its done is another matter, but its certainly better than it being managed by the drug lords.

Eventually you supply one reason.
So is legalising prostution or letting everyone carry guns better than only criminals having them?

it shoud be knowin that i've never touched cannabis or any other drug of that nature.
I have tried here before to post a load of info, but the admin kept taking it down, so i gave up. so much for free speech.

I don't believe you but it is possible.
Care to PM me all the "info" you posted before?

I wouldn't mind but i had found some great info on it.

Great PM it to me them.

if you disagree, that fine too. we all have an opinion.

This is avoiding the issue.
Where is the evidence you claim to have?
When did you post it?
Who removed it?

MY opinion is based on objective evidence and not just my opinion.
and i have not taken a case against cannabis.
I am just asking you to support your claims for it.

ISAW

FTA69 wrote: »

http://www.drugwatch.org/Cannabis%20statistics%20Europe.htm

Here's what American cops have to say; Ireland, the UK, France and the Czech Republic all have a higher use of cannabis amongst youths than the Netherlands.

WRONG!
Look at the title of the table :
PERCENT OF 15-16 YEAR OLDS REPORTING CANNABIS (MARIJUANA OR HASHISH) USE 29 EUROPEAN COUNTRIES & MOSCOW 1999

Over ten years old!
Source for the above table is report of the “European School Survey Project on Alcohol and Other Drugs (ESPAD).” Netherlands data sample was not drawn according to ESPAD guidelines.


Here is a more recent summary 2007
http://www.espad.org/documents/Espad/ESPAD_reports/2007/SUMMARY-The_2007_ESPAD_Report.pdf

Ireland : 20
Netherlands: 28

Other studies I looked up showed Ireland in or around the same level as the Netherlands,

WHICH studies?
The above one shows France at 31 similar to Netherlands and Isle of Mann ( wheere they have strong regulations i believe) at 34

but rates of use were much higher in France and the UK where cannabis is prohibited.

And you claim this proves what? that legalising it reduces the use?
Look at page 13 of my reference:

Country specific differences
in the risk of harm from cannabis were found, and the
percentage of high-risk users in a population corresponds to
the cannabis use prevalence rates in the single countries. In
other words, at population level the prevalence of high-risk
users increases with the prevalence of cannabis use.
...
No country displays a continuous decrease, but Ireland and
the United Kingdom drop substantially in illicit drug use when
the whole period is considered (14 percentage points down
roughly),
...
The overall impression is that the increase in illicit drug use
between 1995 and 2003 noted among the ESPAD countries has
at least come to a halt, if not a decrease, especially considering
that there are no increases in any country for recent use of
cannabis between 2003 and 2007.

Regards other drugs,

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/stats08/gpsfig14a

This site shows related studies which show us to be one of the highest users of cocaine, we are in the top 6 for cannabis and in the top half for amphetamine and ecstasy use.

REally? WHEre does it show that? All I see is a graph of 15-34 year old's and some of thise countries ( of which Ireland is one) dont even have three surveys done for that age group!

So there you are, you learn something new every day.

Not from you I don't! At least not yet.

True, we have a strong teetotal tradition. That doesn't equate with us not having a raging p*sshead culture in Ireland as well.

But that does not make it "part of the Irish tradition" no more than it makes terrorism part of the Irish tradition.

And what do you mean by "pishead culture" ? People got drunk in public 20 or 30 years ago and other people helped them home. I would suggest today they are likel;y to be involved
in starting fights or in being mugged than being helped. IT isn't the alcohol that has changed it is the attitudes.

I don't think anyone can seriously deny that we have an issue with alcohol in this country, needless to say we have one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in Europe. (Do I've to dig out statistics for that too?)

Indeed you do! And again if you look you will see Austria for example is way higher.
But given that alcohol is legal and you are claiming it is problematic and widespread then how wil legalising cannibis improve anything in that regard. I mean if you make a mistake how would you make alcohol or cannabis illegal again?

That's just reality lad.

Please don't patronise me! And it isn't reality, it is your opinion!

Again a ridiculous analogy, widespread alcohol use in a given society is hardly comparable to terrorism.

It is in the sense that such behavior can't be called "traditional" .

No, you're coming out with ridiculous analogies again. A person making a personal choice to smoke a naturally occurring plant is not akin to raping a child or stabbing someone; the latter are actions that have an extremely negative impact on another unwilling individual, the former is a personal choice affecting no-one else.

An alcoholic or a heroine user who is never violent and does not steal from others DOES
affect others.

My point was if something is wrong legalising it does not help society. you don't view taking cannabis as wrong but most people apparently do.

So, as you can see, your comparisons are completely void.

No I can't see that at all! The only distinction you added is that it does not hurt anyone else. But as i have pointed out it does. But let us take something like suicide or euthanasia. Should we also legalise those as " a personal choice affecting no-one else"?