Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

ISAW

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yes there is evidence that people have gone on to use other drugs without using cannabis first. This doesn't cancel out the fact that a large percentage will have used cannabis first.

So what?
That isn't my argument!
The point was that cannabis is a "gateway" i.e cannibis is a major causal factor in other drug use. But i have pointed out that with NO cannabis people use other drugs and even with cannabis it is likely they use a legal drug like alcohol as well so how can you show it is cannabis alone which is a "gateway" and not alcohol?

Personal experience is very much a valid standpoint to make an argument from.

No it isnt! It is highly unrealiable and subject to bias!
By "valid" I mean saying what it does on the tin.
See here:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/val-snd/

Seems like you are looking for people to post links surveys and similar quantitative research.

That might help yes.

Here you go http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=2072&bih=887&q=studies+on+cannabis+as+a+gateway+drug&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=. Countless research projects are taking/have taken place on it and you will find evidence for both arguments. Your own experience will inform which standpoint you take.

That is just a lazy google search on "studies+on+cannabis+as+a+gateway+drug" which shows you hae't really read any of the evidence have you?

WHAT surveys or projects support your claim?
Go and cite some of them!

Ever heard of "burden of evidence" ? You claim it so it is for you to support it!
Don't ask me to do your work for you.

You may as well say "it is in the Bible somewhere. Go and read it!"

The thread title doesn't in any way suggest cannabis is wrong.

So what? the thread title suggests economic reasons for legalisation.

Child abuse is illegal because it hurts people physically and mentally.

Cannabis use affects people physically and mentally. and iot affects indirectly those who know them.

Not because people disagree with the ethics of it. You'd be hard pushed to find anyone who wants to legalise child abuse. Consuming cannabis doesn't victimize anyone.

Does consuming pure heroine! so should we legalise that too?

Yes, here are your five reasons people want to legalise cannabis:
It's enjoyable to consume.

The Hedonist argument: sex with children is enjoyable or heroine is enjoyable
Should they also be legal?

It has uses in medicine.

AS do opiates. So morphine should also be legal? Medicines by the way are controlled!

The bi-product (hemp) is environmentally friendlier than wood and more sustainable. It would take a lucative industry out of the hands of criminals. It would create jobs.

Which is why EU grants support Treagasc growing hemp in Ireland for cloth and rope manufacture or power production. It is only the drug element we are arguing about here.


So thats TWO and not FIVE reasons? Anymore?

It would take a lucative industry out of the hands of criminals. It would create jobs.

Cannabis isn't such a big money earner as coke or other drugs but Ill give you that reason. Anyone who buys cannabis is probably supporting a drug gang. REmoving that element is a positive ill give you that. But in the netherlands and other places where cannabis regulation is lax similar gangs still operate.
Legalising prostitution would not make illegal prostitution stop.

i fail to see all the jobs it would create

chucken1

Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

Thats all I read in OP. Irelands already out of reason

ISAW

goat2 wrote: »

there are people who will go and buy the stuff from dealers anyway, and by legalising you stop the mob and druglords, just like beer and cigies, not everyone will take it just the few, then why not legalise the thing

Actually you just defeated the single reason I have accepted so far!

If you legalise it the drug lords wont necessarily go away. They (like cigarettes) will have low price and maybe high concentration (above the legal THC level) illegal cannabis.

ISAW

chucken1 wrote: »

Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression

Thats all I read in OP. Irelands already out of reason

Are we "out of reason" because of smoking to much cannabis?

Oh_Noes

ISAW wrote: »

That is just a lazy google search on "studies+on+cannabis+as+a+gateway+drug" which shows you hae't really read any of the evidence have you?

This is to illustrate the point to you that countless studies both for and against that argument have been carried out. I linked a google search for you so you can have your choice.

I'm not going to continue to respond to your trolling with discussions of child abuse and heroin addicts, none of it's relevant.

Elevator

all i want is my gram of cannabis a day

I don't want anymore scientific reports or debates, I want to use the same plant that was around for millions or years and used for thousands of years until it effected American business interests.

I personally couldn't give 1 care to the man made war against the cannabis plant and will continue to use it everyday I can and some day sense will prevail once again!!

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

ISAW wrote: »

No I can't see that at all! The only distinction you added is that it does not hurt anyone else. But as i have pointed out it does. But let us take something like suicide or euthanasia. Should we also legalise those as " a personal choice affecting no-one else"?

Attempted suicide isnt against the law.

RobbieTheRobber

Corsendonk wrote: »

Improved refrigeration and storage technology in the supply chain, new cultivars from selective breeding for improved shelflife, improved logistics in supply chain, lack of consumer knowledge about fruit and veg, greater grower expertise. Need I go on?

Or are you going to repeat your carp that its genetic modified? Sure if it was GM wouldn't Greenpeace have let the cat out of the bag but thats boring, the conspiracy theory carping is more interesting than reading about a subject before becoming a keyboard warrior,
.

Yeah becuase improved logistics so explains it all.
What about irradiaton?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation

Greeneyed

Hi guys I'm new to this..... haven't got a clue how to work it!! I'm doing research on cannabis for college. Just wondering if did smoke hash and what age you started at???

I need all the help i can get

Cheers

Oh_Noes

Greeneyed wrote: »

Hi guys I'm new to this..... haven't got a clue how to work it!! I'm doing research on cannabis for college. Just wondering if did smoke hash and what age you started at???

I need all the help i can get

Cheers

Can you sign the back of my passport while you're here?

masterkio

[QUOTE=I'm not going to continue to respond to your trolling with discussions of child abuse and heroin addicts, none of it's relevant.[/QUOTE]

i hole heartly agree wit you Oh_Noes.

masterkio

Greeneyed wrote: »

Hi guys I'm new to this..... haven't got a clue how to work it!! I'm doing research on cannabis for college. Just wondering if did smoke hash and what age you started at???

I need all the help i can get

Cheers

Welcome.
there is some great info in this fourm.
read back threw all the pages is my advice.
good look to ya, cos there's alot..?

ISAW

Oh_Noes wrote: »

This is to illustrate the point to you that countless studies both for and against that argument have been carried out. I linked a google search for you so you can have your choice.

No you didn't! you didn't show any research or show you read any research. all you did was type "cannibis research" into a search engine and post what you got! that isn't doing any research or showing you know anything at all about the subject! It would be as easy for me to say "The Bible says cannabis is wrong it is in the Bible somewhere go and read it" or "There is evidence in the library that cannabis causes heart attacks"
The burden of proof is on the person making the claim! If you claim there is a good reason for legalising cannabis they what ois that reason and what evidence do you have to support the reason?

I'm not going to continue to respond to your trolling with discussions of child abuse and heroin addicts, none of it's relevant.

You can run away from the issue if you wich but clearluy you posted a point you couldn't support!

and it is relevant becauyse people were proposing we should legalise things which they see as no harm. I provided several examples where people doing things are harmful but other people say it is no harm and should be legal. Teenagers having sex, drug use, suicide , euthanasia. ALL have people who say they should be legal and are no harm.

This is what I posted:

I'm sure if you aks a 14 or 15 year old about sex they will tell you sex at their age is something that should be allowed. But it is illegal and when they reach 40 they will say that and they will not say that a 16 year old was more informed about it.

Now change "sex" with "cannabis use " and you have your argument. Not a troll just using the SAME PRINCIPLE ( i..e it does no harm) with a different subject. Sorry but we are not going to legalise something just because of your uninformed opinion that it does no harm.

ISAW

masterkio wrote: »

i hole heartly agree wit you Oh_Noes.

When you cant deal with the issue ( e.g. give a reason why cannabis should be legalised) do you always resort to attacking the person asking you to support your opinions?

ISAW

Greeneyed wrote: »

Hi guys I'm new to this..... haven't got a clue how to work it!! I'm doing research on cannabis for college. Just wondering if did smoke hash and what age you started at???

I need all the help i can get

Cheers

What sort of help? If you are doing research what is your research question and outline?

masterkio

ISAW wrote: »

When you cant deal with the issue ( e.g. give a reason why cannabis should be legalised) do you always resort to attacking the person asking you to support your opinions?

here a very interesting study done. have not read it all.
but seems fairly solid

http://www.bayareacannabis.org/studies.htm

make of what want

ISAW

masterkio wrote: »

here a very interesting study done. have not read it all.
but seems fairly solid

http://www.bayareacannabis.org/studies.htm

make of what want

WHAT in that study seems solid?

My suspicion is you didn't read any of it!

If you look at the abstract you will see "double blind" " systematic search" and "placebo controlled"
Can you explain the relevance of any of theise terms?

furthermore the paper is on medicinal use and not recreational use. You are aware of the difference?

In the works cited it refers to patients with

Neuropathic or chronic pain: Experimental pain: Multiple sclerosis and spasticity: HIV/AIDS: Intestinal dysfunction: Nausea/vomiting/appetite: Schizophrenia:

Do you know did you ever known or have you ever assisted people with the above problems or even spent some time with them?

Corsendonk

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Yeah becuase improved logistics so explains it all.
What about irradiaton?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation

Ahh the great wikipedia, Food irradiation never really took off due to the high costs of the technology and public lack of science knowledge. If you use it you have to put an irradiation symbol on the product anyway but as I said cost restricted its use so the only branch of food industry it makes financial sense to use in is the spice industry due to the high value of the product.

Elevator

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

T runner

weedfreedomtinp wrote: »

Tobacco kills 750.000 per year

Alcohol kills 400.000 per year

coffee kills 4.500 per year

aspirin kills 7.500 per year

Cannabis Kills 0 what you say 0 dont believe me look in google videos for a video called

THE UNION , THE BUSINESS BEHIND CANNABIS ,,,

Its all in it ,,

from professors from Harvard uni and many more top Law official's


THE UNION , THE BUSINESS BEHIND CANNABIS ,,,

when you see the video please comment on this truly

One benefit of legalising it is that it would show the population and media of Ireland just what an anti-social and damaging drug that alcohol is by giving them a barometer o compare and contrast.

People might realise where some of our less desireable national traits of extreme conservatism, anger, self righteousness, ego, low self esteem etc etc. come from. Its amazing to note that some of our national traits are identical to psychological negatives of heavy drinkers!

So the next time you say "we are in this mess because we are Irish" remember, your thought processes have more in common with the drunk man in the gutter or the folks in the asylum than with any logical pattern.

Thankkfully we have far more positive traits than negative taits as a nation,although our national drink problem is serious.

What national traits might we gain if we had legalised cannabis?

Open mindedness, consideration, might be positives to make us more similar to northern France and Benelux but still way short of the piercing sobriety of the Scandanavian.

Inverse to the power of one!

Meh..... Cannabis is not the panacea it's supporters claim, nor is it the destroyer of worlds that it's opponents claim.....It's just another drug that may be used, abused or abstained from.

10 year graduation from Illegal to Legal via decriminalization in the interim with structured regulation implemented over the same period........Not exactly rocket science and reintroduces the drug in a way that allows society to readjust.

Next!

stevoslice

isaw, have you had some personal experience with cannabis seeing as you seem to be so very afraid of it, and what the consequences might be for people who may, god forbid, enjoy an odd smoke.

It is great to relieve stress though, if only i didn't have to keep track of those heroin cravings i get every time i smoke. :-(

RockinRolla

Greeneyed wrote: »

Hi guys I'm new to this..... haven't got a clue how to work it!! I'm doing research on cannabis for college. Just wondering if did smoke hash and what age you started at???

I need all the help i can get

Cheers

Is this low standard of investigation in the Gardai what we are paying for these days...:rolleyes:

dRNk SAnTA

Look, if we're lucky, we'll be alive on this earth for only 80-odd years.

So if people want to smoke weed, let them at it, it's their life and it's not your, mine, or the governments business.

Almost everyone I know has smoked weed, but few do it regularly. Adults can make their own decisions, and cannabis is pretty much harmless and it really shouldn't be illegal.

The ONLY downside I see from legalising it in Ireland would be the bad tourism that would follow. But that's a matter of policing.

ordinarywoman

https://www.greenpassion.org/index.php?/topic/23575-new-420-page-grannys-mmj-list-july-2010/


This link provides a 420 pg reference list for reserch done on medicinal properties of marijuana, it contains reserch done by doctors and pharamcolists world wide, it is also on google Granny Storms list.

Rick Simpsons story is only one of the many stories all claiming the same thing

ISAW

thebhoy wrote: »

isaw, have you had some personal experience with cannabis

My personal experiences with cannabis or lack of them have nothing to do with the issue. I don't personalise issues and attempt to be objective. I may have no personal experience with killing people or not personally had an abortion on tried to commit suicide but that does not mean that objective research I produce about suicide abortion or homicide is wrong.

If you can't winn an issue do you always resort to attacking the person who is?

seeing as you seem to be so very afraid of it, and what the consequences might be for people who may, god forbid, enjoy an odd smoke.

I'm not "afraid" of it at all! Im not for or against. It is just that many people who are suggesting it be legal aren't giving logical reasons or presenting sound or valid arguments.
And they are saying "alcohol is harmful" which is just a reason for nbanning alcohol or something else as well. But we can't do that because it has become so socially acceptable. so why make something legal if it will be difficult to ban if we later discover we were mistaken?

And Im not opposed to people who smoke it but tell me this. do you think people should be paying money to drug gangsters? You are aware that the money for cannabis goes to them?

It is great to relieve stress though, if only i didn't have to keep track of those heroin cravings i get every time i smoke. :-(

Valium is apparently good for stress as well as are other narcotics. But that isn't a reason to have them freely available is it?

ISAW

Bold added by me

RockinRolla wrote: »

Is this low standard of investigation in the Gardai what we are paying for these days...:rolleyes:

Is this an example of the low standard of grammar teaching for which our taxes pay? What with all the hanging prepositions and the " I'll learn you to talk proper what I do like" and so on.

ISAW

T runner wrote: »

One benefit of legalising it is that it would show the population and media of Ireland just what an anti-social and damaging drug that alcohol is by giving them a barometer o compare and contrast.

Eventually some gives a reason! But you do realise the same could be done for opium or heroine? Pure heroine is not damaging to the body.

People might realise where some of our less desireable national traits of extreme conservatism, anger, self righteousness, ego, low self esteem etc etc. come from.

You are suggesting it comes form alcohol. Have you any evidence? I mean could it not be caused for example by Cocaine?

Its amazing to note that some of our national traits are identical to psychological negatives of heavy drinkers!

What is a "national trait"?

So the next time you say "we are in this mess because we are Irish" remember, your thought processes have more in common with the drunk man in the gutter or the folks in the asylum than with any logical pattern.

You would get along fine in 1950s England! The Irish are all mad drunkards! LOL

Thankkfully we have far more positive traits than negative taits as a nation,although our national drink problem is serious.

What is a "national trait" ? what is the "irish nation"?

ISAW

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Look, if we're lucky, we'll be alive on this earth for only 80-odd years.

So if people want to smoke weed, let them at it, it's their life and it's not your, mine, or the governments business.

And if they are into self harming? Or suicide? Or euthanasia? Sorry but in prionciple the State does not agree with you.

Almost everyone I know has smoked weed, but few do it regularly. Adults can make their own decisions, and cannabis is pretty much harmless and it really shouldn't be illegal.

And you evidence is????

The ONLY downside I see from legalising it in Ireland would be the bad tourism that would follow. But that's a matter of policing.

Well if you look at the places that it is tolerated Amsterdam, Copenhagen Jamaica there are significant proplemns related to criminality. ther is also what could be called a hippi like welfare sapping society. Do you really think Dublin would be better as a city of new age travellers?

ISAW

ordinarywoman wrote: »

https://www.greenpassion.org/index.php?/topic/23575-new-420-page-grannys-mmj-list-july-2010/


This link provides a 420 pg reference list for reserch done on medicinal properties of marijuana, it contains reserch done by doctors and pharamcolists world wide, it is also on google Granny Storms list.

Rick Simpsons story is only one of the many stories all claiming the same thing

This isnt a debate about medicinal use of opiates cannabis etc. We know that opium , cocaine, morphine etc. have use as medicine but that isn't a reason to legalise them and make them freely available is it?