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Cannabis should be legalized in Ireland To pull Our country out of ression
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What next ? Taxes on the air we breath? Or could we become more acceptable on our laws towards legalization of Cannabis ? and help our recession out of depression ?
WHY ? Well the very truth is Cannabis would net millions yearly for our suffering economy. This is a fact. You would just have to look up the total of cannabis seizures alone for 2009.
The Irish government estimates that there are 800,000 cannabis smokers in this country, around 10% of the adult population..
The government spends between €200-300 million every year to prosecute less than 1% of those smokers and intercept less than 10% of the incoming narcotics. In 2009 alone there has been an estimated over 20 million total of seized cannabis.
Evening Herald Wednesday September 09 2009
A Dutch man has been arrested in connection with an €8 million cannabis seizure at Dublin Port.
If the war against cannabis users were to be won, it would require an annual spend of over €24 billion - more than the entire annual tax take.
Simply removing cannabis from the law enforcement priorities of the state would produce massive savings. The Justice Department would save €109 million per year: the savings for the Gardai alone would be a 58.8 million every year.
Besides saving money, ending the unjust war on cannabis would free up resources and manpower to fight serious crime.
If the government decided to regulate cannabis sales, this could be expected to bring in over €200 million in VAT on Irish cannabis sales alone.
Regulation of the cannabis industry would result in the creation of hundreds of jobs. It would generate an estimated €243.8 million per year in employer taxes, and a further €26.3 million in PAYE taxes.
The Netherlands generates an estimated €360 million per year from tourists visiting their cannabis vending coffeeshops; Ireland could expect to generate up to 80% of this revenue from tourism.
Widespread cannabis contamination and lack of quality control regulation is costing young people their respiratory health and creating an unknown future burden on the health services. Cannabis smokers are consuming plastic, glass, lead, diesel and various other dangerous additives designed to increase weight and market value.
Cannabis legalisation would deprive violent criminals their share of the illicit market and would net the Irish state a total of over €879 million per year.0 -
What next ? Taxes on the air we breath? Or could we become more acceptable on our laws towards legalization of Cannabis ? and help our recession out of depression ?
WHY ? Well the very truth is Cannabis would net millions yearly for our suffering economy. This is a fact. You would just have to look up the total of cannabis seizures alone for 2009.
The Irish government estimates that there are 800,000 cannabis smokers in this country, around 10% of the adult population..
The government spends between €200-300 million every year to prosecute less than 1% of those smokers and intercept less than 10% of the incoming narcotics. In 2009 alone there has been an estimated over 20 million total of seized cannabis.
Evening Herald Wednesday September 09 2009
A Dutch man has been arrested in connection with an €8 million cannabis seizure at Dublin Port.
If the war against cannabis users were to be won, it would require an annual spend of over €24 billion - more than the entire annual tax take.
Simply removing cannabis from the law enforcement priorities of the state would produce massive savings. The Justice Department would save €109 million per year: the savings for the Gardai alone would be a 58.8 million every year.
Besides saving money, ending the unjust war on cannabis would free up resources and manpower to fight serious crime.
If the government decided to regulate cannabis sales, this could be expected to bring in over €200 million in VAT on Irish cannabis sales alone.
Regulation of the cannabis industry would result in the creation of hundreds of jobs. It would generate an estimated €243.8 million per year in employer taxes, and a further €26.3 million in PAYE taxes.
The Netherlands generates an estimated €360 million per year from tourists visiting their cannabis vending coffeeshops; Ireland could expect to generate up to 80% of this revenue from tourism.
Widespread cannabis contamination and lack of quality control regulation is costing young people their respiratory health and creating an unknown future burden on the health services. Cannabis smokers are consuming plastic, glass, lead, diesel and various other dangerous additives designed to increase weight and market value.
Cannabis legalisation would deprive violent criminals their share of the illicit market and would net the Irish state a total of over €879 million per year.0 -
Since I like my information in easy-to-understand visual form, and from relatively-respectable sources, here's The Lancet on empirical harm:
Apparently we've all got it wrong, and should be chewing some khat0 -
the worlds biggest no no against drugs has now got a state to argue back with cannabis prohibition ,, lets see if the Americans will swallow this humble pie ,, for all there lies about the drug over the last 50 years
FREE THE WEED ONCE AND FOR ALL
HOW CAN YOU MAKE A PLANT ILLEGAL ,,0 -
genericguy wrote: »
A major reason I think it isn't being legalised or even tolerated in this country is because of our government's affinity for the vintners - because i could tell you for damn sure if somebody could stay at home for a smoke and a few take-out beers with their friends, the only people to suffer would be those poxes with the cheek to charge 5 and 6 euro for a pint of piss.
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I THINK THE ONLY REASON THAT IT IS ILLEGAL ..
IS BECAUSE THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY'S WOULD LOSE OUT
THEY DONT WANT YOU TO GROW YOUR OWN MEDICINE0 -
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you realize legalization will only make it easier for kids to get their hands on cannabis?
Ok if something is not regulated it is easier ,, most kids in schools will tell u that its the drugs like coke extacy cannabis is easier to get there hands on than alcohol or tobacco
thats a fact
because when it is regulated they have to show id over 18s only,, they should make a license to sell very hard to get and easy to lose like alcohol.0 -
weedfreedomtinp wrote: »Ok if something is not regulated it is easier ,, most kids in schools will tell u that its the drugs like coke extacy cannabis is easier to get there hands on than alcohol or tobacco
thats a fact
because when it is regulated they have to show id over 18s only,, they should make a license to sell very hard to get and easy to lose like alcohol.
Exactly and saying people would still buy it illegally is a red herring because does that happen with alcohol?
I'm sure you have small black markets for alcohol but overall the vast majority are law abiding and buy from premises authorised to sell for the simple reason that people don't want to break the law.
Keeping weed illegal makes it push other drugs because once you've broken the law by buying weed then the law is no longer a barrier to buying any higher drug since your already doing it buying something harmless like weed. It stops law being a deterrent because people know they are taking the piss having it illegal.
Also from biased education in schools that all drugs are bad once kids find out they were being lied to about one they will be more likely to try others to find out what else was a lie. Honest education and legalisation of not very harmful drugs and allow people to make informed decisions is the only way you will reduce drug use IMO.0 -
weedfreedomtinp wrote: »Ok if something is not regulated it is easier ,, most kids in schools will tell u that its the drugs like coke extacy cannabis is easier to get there hands on than alcohol or tobacco
thats a fact
because when it is regulated they have to show id over 18s only,, they should make a license to sell very hard to get and easy to lose like alcohol.
You need to make your legal cannabis both easier and cheaper than the illegal cannabis to stop people from growing it. The way you people tax the bejesus out of everything, I doubt youd be able to pull it off. The fact is if the drug was decriminalized tomorrow I could set up a grow room for a fraction of the unit cost i'd get charged in any store.0 -
You could, but to be honest, i doubt if a lot of cannabis users would be bothered to go through with growing their own weed if they could get it legally from a dispensary/shop, (and at hopefully less price than current street prices).
And setting up a proper grow room wouldn't be so cheap, when you consider lighting, ventilation and humidty controls, feeding and watering of plants, electricity costs etc.
Sure you would most likely produce weed cheaper than what you pay to a dealer at current prices, but if cannabis were legal, then those with permits/license to operate large scale grow ops, should be able to produce weed much cheaper than your average weed-in-the-closet grower. The final price would depend on how much the government wanted to tax it0 -
Takeshi_Kovacs wrote: »The final price would depend on how much the government wanted to tax itThe fact is if the drug was decriminalized tomorrow I could set up a grow room for a fraction of the unit cost i'd get charged in any store.0
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Prohibition of cannabis has completely failed, its more readily available, cheaper and stronger than when i was a kid.
There are far more harmful legal substances available, banning them wouldnt work either.
As for legalising small amounts, it still leaves control of vast amounts of money in criminal hands. These criminals often use the proceeds of cannabis to import guns and stronger drugs such as cocaine, heroin etc.
If it was taken out of their hands, the amount of money and power they would have would drop significantly.
As for making it more available to children, i think it would be the opposite, when i was growing up it was much easier to get cannabis, the dealer didint give a rats ass about your age. It also introduces you to a seedier criminal world where stronger stuff is offered/pushed
we are wasting huge resource fighting it, and as well as saving those could add the resources the criminals now gather to the legitimate economy, while it alone wont save us, large amounts of money will be freed up.0 -
I'd just like to point out that weed isn't technically legal in Amsterdam. The whole coffeeshop thing started as an illegal movement. Someone opened up a coffeeshop, but got quickly shut down. They opened up again somewhere else, and got shut down. Then more people started opening up until the authorities couldn't control it anymore, so they just kinda left them to it. (Someone verify this, this is what I heard when I was over there, and I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere too)
Legalizing weed could turn Dublin into a ridiculous tourist destination though. People already see Dublin as the Amsterdam of alcohol, and come over here to drink, so if weed was legalized Dublin'd become the drugs capital of Europe, with mashed tourists falling all over the place. It'd be better to legalize weed in somewhere out of the way, like Athlone. Give them some tourism for once.0 -
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yeah most people I know who smoke still buy legally. Given the option of legal and illegal, most people will pick legal even if it costs more because most people prefer to know what they are getting and most people don't want to break the law.0
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electrogrimey wrote: »I'd just like to point out that weed isn't technically legal in Amsterdam. The whole coffeeshop thing started as an illegal movement. Someone opened up a coffeeshop, but got quickly shut down. They opened up again somewhere else, and got shut down. Then more people started opening up until the authorities couldn't control it anymore, so they just kinda left them to it. (Someone verify this, this is what I heard when I was over there, and I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere too)
Legalizing weed could turn Dublin into a ridiculous tourist destination though. People already see Dublin as the Amsterdam of alcohol, and come over here to drink, so if weed was legalized Dublin'd become the drugs capital of Europe, with mashed tourists falling all over the place. It'd be better to legalize weed in somewhere out of the way, like Athlone. Give them some tourism for once.
yes thats true Amsterdam is not exactly legal ,, but you are allowed to carry 5 grams of cannabis and grow 5 plants ,, for personal use,,
i personally think ,,
athlone is in the arse of ireland,,
be best is to give it to big citys and make more money from taxes ,,
ive heard people saying that , how can we charge tax , simple the same way we do with alcohol & tobacco
also if it is made legal , it will start a full new industry.
thousands of different uses.
first of all the growing end.
then you have all the textile products.
come on ireland
open your eyes this drug is not as harmful as the alcohol or tobacco you've been publicly advertising for years.
And its just under heroin and coke in the list of most harmful drugs,
This Chart Is By
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Professor David Nutt
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The psychopharmacology of depression, addiction, insomnia and other disorders[/FONT]0 -
Tobacco was never made illegal, and Alcohol is not simple or profitable to distill your closet.
when the alcohol prohibition was around there was a lot of money to be made .. it caused so much trouble the only way to stop it was to legalize it again .. the alcohol prohibition made the names such as Al Capone
and many other big gangsters ,
so we should learn from these and realize prohibition does not work..0 -
Haha, death isn't listed as a side effect of caffeine. Thread is ridiculous. I doubt that cannabis is in short supply for those that want it. Other than for some restricted medical conditions I see no reason why it should be legalised.
Why criminalise it? Costs the State an absolute fortune prosecuting cannabis related offenses. Demand has not depreciated, in spite of the continual toughening of sentences for those convicted. Despite the fact that hundreds of millions of euros have been spent on scientific research trying to justify its criminalisation, over 50 years, no conclusive evidence has yet emerged indicating cannabis is as dangerous as the laws deem it.
The recent events in England regarding the decision to reclassify cannabis, despite recommendations from the government appointed advisory council (ACMD) on the misuse of drugs that cannabis is in no way as dangerous as other legal drugs, indicates that there are other motivations behind the continuing persecution of millions of regular cannabis users in that jurisdiction.
The sacking of Professor Nutt, the chair of the ACMD, and the blatant disregard for the scientific, evidence based arguments laid out in their reports, illustrates the baseless nature of drug prohibition in the developed world.
We should perhaps examine more closely the economic and political interests in keeping cannabis illegal. How many civil servants are employed directly in the prosecution of cannabis laws?
Imagine an Ireland where cannabis was legal? Courts free to deal with crimes of a serious nature, political corruption perhaps? Planning corruption? Gardaí having to deal with more genuine criminals, devoting their resources to ensure they actually get convictions in more murder and rape cases?
Cannabis users are soft targets and boost Garda crime prevention stats. The DPP loves cannabis criminalisation, the accused rarely plead innocent and they are in plenty of supply.0 -
bogwarrior33 wrote: »Why criminalise it? Costs the State an absolute fortune prosecuting cannabis related offenses.
How much?0 -
It is difficult to determine for Ireland, as study in this area has not been extensive. But we could compare ourselves fairly with the US. They are currently liberalising their approach to cannabis criminalisation on a state by state basis. Yet in 2007 cannabis related arrests in the US were at 872,721, with 88% of those being for simple possession. The total costs, including law enforcement, judicial proceedings and imprisonment was estimated to be between $5-15 billion annually (2003 figures). The US population is approximately 75 times that of Ireland, so a figure of $70-210 million would be a rough indication of costs for Ireland.
Many will argue that the US has greater law enforcement resources per capita which it happily commits to cannabis prohibition, but I would argue that Ireland places a disproportionate importance on cannabis prohibition that many other developed countries. If the magnitude of cannabis seizures can be indicative of such an approach.
If we are to look at usage rates, Ireland is significantly higher compared with other European countries with liberal cannabis laws (Spain and the Netherlands). So it is not fair to reason that our costs would be in line approximately to the US on a per capita basis, after all Irish politicians and Gardaí have made it abundantly clear they supported the US approach with the failed Reaganite "War on Drugs". We have a conservative approach to cannabis, from a legal perspective (completely opposing the social consensus among the under 40s that cannabis is comparable to alcohol in harm). The case law surrounding cannabis in this State indicates a narrow view of its harm from the judiciary, most of whom are happy to apply the maximum penalties on accused.
These estimates would be served of course by more concrete statistics derived from independent audits and surveys. Unfortunately, as is the case in many other jurisdictions, funding for research in this area is generally exclusive to those studies proposing to show the harm in cannabis use. Studies implying a general overview of the situation are not welcomed by a political system that has a vested interest in cheap political points scoring from soft targets. They all want to be tough on criminals, and the overwhelming majority of cannabis users are not inherently criminal, lacking the requisite mindset to avoid the long arms of the law.0 -
How much?
I should give you the few figures for Ireland I am currently aware of, but I assure you this is an area I am very interested in studying further. We have over 400,000 criminal cases heard in Irish courts every year with over 10,000 (2006 figure) cannabis related. Take into account cost of court time, free legal aid which a majority of these cases apply to, Garda time, and all other areas of the economy affected by such proceedings, the costs dramatically mount up.0 -
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I (along with so many people I speak to about it) am massively in favour of legalisation. I have smoked for about 10years and have maintained a consistent career path through University and through various decent office jobs.
Having done plenty of reading about research on the internet, I believe Cannabis has far fewer health consequences than alcohol and cigarettes. I still don't smoke cigarettes and only see them as something to add to a joint, seeing as though cannabis is so expensive here in Ireland, Silk Cut Ultra all the way. Also, I have no doubt that smoking cannabis can have a demotivating effect, I know of no-one who can smoke loads the night before and want to run a marathon first thing in the morning (personally I like to start with a lazy one).
I believe cannabis should be legalised and older generations who were brought up to think it's really dangerous, it's the devil and a sin against God etc. etc, should look at someone who smokes. They don't turn into a craving maniac and go wild, they sit down, relaxed and peaceful. It doesn't lead them to hit the streets looking for Heroin, and definitely not cocaine to wreck the feeling.
I could rant for absolutely ages but instead I have a basic experience to highlight. . .
I was with 10 friends, having a few beers at about 10:30pm. 2 housemates were upstairs trying to sleep with an important meeting the next morning. 5 friends went out to the club drinking, 5 of us stayed back...smoking cannabis in the living room. 2am came, back came the drinkers. They cracked open another beer, singing and shouting, knocking over tables and chairs and laughing their drunken heads off. The other 5 of us, smiling and chatting, tutting the Irish Legal System as we watch the housemates come in time and time again asking for hush.
Drunken louts making noise and a mess, Stoned chaps chilled out smiling and laughing. The next day, the 5 of us were first up, having breakfast, watching as the others gradually made it to the kitchen, reaching for asprin and water and then back to bed with their hangovers.
With one last thing to say however, when smoking cannabis regularly, it's very important to know when to give it a rest for a day or two, or however long is necessary to bring your brain power back to 100%. Any decent user will appreciate this.
Come on Ireland, at least give it a try.0 -
genericguy wrote: »A major reason I think it isn't being legalised or even tolerated in this country is because of our government's affinity for the vintners - because i could tell you for damn sure if somebody could stay at home for a smoke and a few take-out beers with their friends, the only people to suffer would be those poxes with the cheek to charge 5 and 6 euro for a pint of piss.
Without wanting to sound too conspiracy theory, genericguy has a point. Drugs (be they legal or otherwise) are big business.
A UN report said the global (illegal) drug trade generated an estimated $321.6 billion in 2003, making it one of the most lucrative global industries.
It would be foolish/naive to underestimate the lobbying power of the global tobacco and alcohol industries.
My opinion is that we should REGULATE all drugs for the following 6 reasons:
1. It would seriously diminish the power and cash flow of organised crime.
2. It would free up law enforcement to do real police work
3. It would make drug abuse a 'social' not a 'criminal' problem.
4. It would mean an element of quality control and give government agencies a chance at intervention/education where needed, saving lives in the long run.
5. The tax revenue from sales would be a huge boost to their economies.
6. It would make it harder for kids to get drugs.0 -
My opinion is that we should REGULATE all drugs for the following 6 reasons:
1. It would seriously diminish the power and cash flow of organised crime.
2. It would free up law enforcement to do real police work
3. It would make drug abuse a 'social' not a 'criminal' problem.
4. It would mean an element of quality control and give government agencies a chance at intervention/education where needed, saving lives in the long run.
5. The tax revenue from sales would be a huge boost to their economies.
6. It would make it harder for kids to get drugs.
i agree 100% on them points0 -
cannabis should have some review done soon ,,0
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So you've got a grand total of 4 signatures, despite overwhelming backing on this forum.
What does that tell you about online petitions?0 -
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I carry on this discussion with people everywhere, and in South Korea the other day a guy gave me a real eye-opener, which i'm sure you've thought of before and I see it was touched on in a recent post.
The Alcohol industry would suffer MASSIVELY from Legalisation. There would be a safer, more enjoyable (in my opinion) way of socialising with friends...and without paying out your nose too. I'm certain the top dogs are nudging the decision makers away from legalisation.
A coffee shop in Oregon in the States opened it's doors on the 9th November, to medicinal users of course. Thankfully I'm healthy and (unfotunately) won't be able to take advantage of medicinal smoke, but places like this will open people's eyes so they can see it doesn't make us go loopers after we smoke it. Just smile way more0 -
they were considering this kind of an idea in the czech republic. they thought it would increase the tax revenue etc. but when research has been done into it they found that when people smoke cannabis they drink a lot less. then there was the issue of putting money to the health system to deal with the attics etc. and basically the result was, that it would only bring around 1 million korunas into the economy, which is marginal sum really. so they abandoned it.
with regards to holland they have a completely different system over there. their health system is best in the eu, the university students get hand on experience on their course while in college and there are many other things as well. its not just cannabis;)
They obviously have a big vintners lobby over there too. Imagine if people drank less ... look how much money that would save in Gardai, A & E, legal bills etc ... I'm convinced.0 -
The vast majority of the people who are in favour of legalisation come up with ridiculous barely researched ideas and can't spell.
It's not Heroin, it's not crack, there are negative effects but since when does the government make everything thats bad for us illegal?
Half of you nuts are such spelling nazis! Frankly it's shameful, petty and rude!
Have a look at your own crappy post first with incorrect use of capitals.:rolleyes:0 -
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weedfreedomtinp wrote: »you will always find some one who gets high does not cause trouble and that is a fact as it makes people pacifists
Same as ecstacy.0
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