European League-Are Irish fans of English clubs for this?

ANTIFA!

On another forum I'm on they're discussing this and so far basically everybody is against it. Pricing the local fans out if it seems to be one of the main reasons for being against this. But since a home team for your chosen club is still an away game it makes no difference to you anyway.

So my question is would you prefer if Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool formed with the other big European clubs, a European Super League?

Quite often you see people mention the ' superior product' of the English Premier League, so I'd imagine 99% of you would like to see this happen.

I mean it be pefect right? You'd get rid of the unneeded dross and be able to witness the highest quality football Europe has to offer on the television from your fatboy or barstool(no pun intended) every week.

cournioni

ANTIFA! wrote: »

I mean it be pefect right? You'd get rid of the unneeded dross and be able to witness the highest quality football Europe has to offer on the television from your fatboy or barstool(no pun intended) every week.

What exactly are you implying here? That we are all barstoolers?

Pepe LeFrits

Hell yeah!

I'd go one further and close up all the clubs that aren't included in the ESL (tm) to provide additional revenue for the super clubs, allowing an even better yet product for us consumers.

nom nom nom

Mr.Nice Guy

ANTIFA wrote:

I mean it be pefect right? You'd get rid of the unneeded dross and be able to witness the highest quality football Europe has to offer on the television from your fatboy or barstool(no pun intended) every week.

ANTIFA!

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

What exactly are you implying here? That we are all barstoolers?

Of course not. I'm sure 99% of you imagine to make at least one or two daytrips a year.

dreamers75

uhh fairly sure all the best footballing players in the world HAVE NOT come tru the top 4 PL youth academies


As much as it pains the regular barstooler the simple fact remains, without little clubs there would be no big clubs. Where that little club resides is irrelevant.

ANTIFA!

By the way I think this is an interesting thread to see how the local fan in England and the consumer of English football in Ireland, Norway, Gambia, Taiwan differ completely.

cournioni

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Of course not. I'm sure 99% of you imagine to make at least one or two daytrips a year.

And what about the other 1%? What are they?

OPENROAD

I would be against a European Super League. I'm not sure what age everyone is here but I'm old enough to remember football before the Premier league, I chose to follow the English league, not just Arsenal, and all that comes with that.

dreamers75

ANTIFA! wrote: »

By the way I think this is an interesting thread to see how the true local fan in England and the consumer of English football in Ireland, Norway, Gambia, Taiwan differ completely.

your obviously more drunk than i am.

but i shall explain this as simple as i can.


Football fans go to football matches.

People who like football watch it on tv.

Boards.ie falls into the 2nd category, a massive amount of people who like football. They are not football fans as they are not at matches, they are people who like football on tv.


But they are better than everyone else as the football they like on tv is ranked batter than everyone elses football.


Seriously if your an LOI militant, give it up. If they dont go to see their own teams play they are not going to see your team play.


Accept it and move on.


Ronan/raven the exception of course.

ANTIFA!

I'm not a hypocrit and I love watching football on tv as how else could I see high quality football????

I follow Real Madrid and Arsenal but I am a consumer of these clubs. I don't know what it really means to support them no more than a Liverpool fan from Dublin or Oslo knows what it really means to support Liverpool. I could never be like a true Real or Arsenal fan, not in a million years. It doesn't even make sense to me to say I support Real Madrid even though I probably liked them for as long as I have supported Bohemians.

dreamers75

ANTIFA! wrote: »

I'm not a hypocrit and I love watching football on tv as how else could I see high quality football????

I follow Real Madrid and Arsenal but I am a consumer of these clubs. I don't know what it really means to support them no more than a Liverpool fan from Dublin or Oslo knows what it really means to support Liverpool. I could never be like a true Real or Arsenal fan, not in a million years. It doesn't even make sense to me to say I support Real Madrid even though I probably liked them for as long as I have supported Bohemians.

yup drunker than me

Mr.Nice Guy

dreamers75 wrote: »

yup drunker than me

There's so many barstoolers in this thread I can't keep up. :pac:

Pepe LeFrits

I'd be a barstooler except I'm so drunk I can't get up from the floor.

dreamers75

pfft can even be drunk properly!!!!


See this what your up against!!!!!

Mr.Nice Guy

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I'd be a barstooler except I'm so drunk I can't get up from the floor.

I hope you're drinking local drink. After all you're not a true drunk unless you've been sampling Ireland's finest.

ANTIFA!

dreamers75 wrote: »

People who like football watch it on tv.

I've always said that the vast majority of fans of foreign teams only do it to follow the crowd and have something to talk about on a Monday morning.

They like the glamour and glitz of English football and since we have the same language as them the majority gravitate towards the Big English teams because they feel they can share the identity(I've actually heard barstoolers suggest they are in someway different to Chinese barstoolers and on another well known forum for Irish barstoolers some guy had the balls to put up a Man United membership forum which jokes there are no Manchester United fans in Manchester).

You don't get news like 'Tevez off to city' and stuff like that in Ireland so its just not interesting for these people.

Its like a Reality TV show or something, actually how about all English football discussed on here gets moved to the 'Celebritys and Showbiz' section of Boards?

OPENROAD

People in Ireland have always followed English football, it is not just in the last 10 or 20 years you know.

ANTIFA!

I'd well believe it but people in Scotland and Norway have also always followed English football, but they don't claim the league to be theirs and shun their own national leagues.

Mr.Nice Guy

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Its like a Reality TV show or something, actually how about all English football discussed on here gets moved to the 'Celebritys and Showbiz' section of Boards?

Or how about we just see an end to these intensely boring threads?

ANTIFA!

Eh no, I think on an Irish soccer forum, a fundamental aspect would be that the League of Ireland, the league of the country we all live in is drastically under supported. You do know we're pretty unique right? Not much European nations have similar apathy to their national league?

However this thread isn't the place for it.

mayordenis

Nearly fell off my barstool, with how ****in stupid this thread is.

Mr.Nice Guy

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Eh no, I think on an Irish soccer forum, a fundamental theme would be the fact that football in this country is drastically under supported.

Calling us a bunch of barstoolers isn't really addressing anything is it?

mayordenis wrote:

Nearly fell off my barstool, with how ****in stupid this thread is.

I think I need a drink myself.

cournioni

So ANTIFA! You didn't answer my question. What about the number of United fans (that probably outnumber Bohs fans) on boards.ie including myself that have United season tickets go to 25 home and probably 10 away games plus a season? Do we not know what it means to support our team? Despite both sides of my family supporting United for generations.

So what should I do? Just drop them and go support Monaghan United, Dundalk, Drogheda, Bohs clubs that I have no connection to or any meaningful feeling towards as I never grew up in any of those towns, should I follow Dundalk exclusively? I go to half of their home games every season but still have no connection with them although I do CONSUME them... I have a connection with United because it's in my blood. Think about that the next time you go spouting about being a real fan just because you support a LOI team.

ANTIFA!

I didn't call anyone barstoolers. Its a legitimate question. I'm very interested in the culture of football. I want to see how Irish people who follow English clubs differ in their views to local fans. Its hard when posting a thread like this to not relate to League of Ireland. People bemoan the quality here so surely your aim like any consumer is to get the best quality product. A European Super League would be the best product on offer imo.

mayordenis

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Calling us a bunch of barstoolers isn't really addressing anything is it?

It is yea, every month we're told this utter guff, and it's really getting to the crux of the issue and really helping the league move forward into a time where even the barstooling cretins such as myself can enjoy the fine technical and tactical show that is the League of Ireland, oh most wonderous spectical.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think I need a drink myself.

Still in work, but 10 beers says I'll be set up nicely for a day EPL action tomorrow.
I'll have a quick pray to god or Andy Grey as he's really known before knocking one out watching Stelling, Merson and my good aul pals on Soccer Saturday.

mayordenis

ANTIFA! wrote: »

I didn't call anyone barstoolers.

You did, don't be dodging that - whether direct or not you defiantely did.

Pepe LeFrits

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I hope you're drinking local drink. After all you're not a true drunk unless you've been sampling Ireland's finest.

Damn, I hadn't thought of that. I'm in San Diego (I felt I wasn't barstool enough being in Dublin) drinking American beer, so when I'm barstooling it up tomorrow at 7am for l'arse game, I'll be sure to drink Harp instead.

OPENROAD

ANTIFA! wrote: »

I didn't call anyone barstoolers. Its a legitimate question. I'm very interested in the culture of football. I want to see how Irish people who follow English clubs differ in their views to local fans. Its hard when posting a thread like this to not relate to League of Ireland. People bemoan the quality here so surely your aim like any consumer is to get the best quality product. A European Super League would be the best product on offer imo.

Personally for me the quality of football has no impact on my reason for Supporting Arsenal/English league.

Helix

ANTIFA! wrote: »

On another forum I'm on they're discussing this and so far basically everybody is against it. Pricing the local fans out if it seems to be one of the main reasons for being against this. But since a home team for your chosen club is still an away game it makes no difference to you anyway.

So my question is would you prefer if Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester United and Liverpool formed with the other big European clubs, a European Super League?

Quite often you see people mention the ' superior product' of the English Premier League, so I'd imagine 99% of you would like to see this happen.

I mean it be pefect right? You'd get rid of the unneeded dross and be able to witness the highest quality football Europe has to offer on the television from your fatboy or barstool(no pun intended) every week.

absolutely not

but then, i go to games

cournioni

For the record. I would be totally against the idea of a European super league. Football has gone far enough down the drain as it is as regards the setup for European football and commercialism without going further down the drain by going this route.

Gavin "shels"

OPENROAD wrote: »

People in Ireland have always followed English football, it is not just in the last 10 or 20 years you know.

Indeed but it's only in the last 20-25 years that stadiums are basically empty, before that stadiums would be selling out with 10,000 - 12,000 fans every weekend.

ANTIFA!

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

So ANTIFA! You didn't answer my question. What about the number of United fans (that probably outnumber Bohs fans) on boards.ie including myself that have United season tickets go to 25 home and probably 10 away games plus a season? Do we not know what it means to support our team? Despite both sides of my family supporting United for generations.

So what should I do? Just drop them and go support Monaghan United, Dundalk, Drogheda, Bohs clubs that I have no connection to or any meaningful feeling towards as I never grew up in any of those towns, should I follow Dundalk exclusively? I go to half of their home games every season but still have no connection with them although I do CONSUME them... I have a connection with United because it's in my blood. Think about that the next time you go spouting about being a real fan just because you support a LOI team.

I'd say why not invest that money into a club in your own country quite clearly. The same way Manchester United fans would say the same thing if their club was shunned by the people of the city in favour of supporting Real Madrid.(Thats another thing I don't like the way fans of foreign clubs try to make it out that we are somehow wrong for having a desire to see the league in ireland succeed as if this makes us odd or something, when in fact all true football fans would sympathise with us.)

However I'd say fair dues for going to all those matches and good to see you attend LOI games. I mean surely any football fan would want to view live football when possible? I know I would.

ANTIFA!

OPENROAD wrote: »

Personally for me the quality of football has no impact on my reason for Supporting Arsenal/English league.

In most countries that wouldn't even make sense. Not the quality of football statement, I agree completely, but followed up by mentioning a foreign club/league in the same sentence.

Fans of English League clubs always remember every Friday Night when you are shunning your local team that without the support of local fans in the city in which the club you follow plays there would be no Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Celtic and whoever else.

All clubs had to start somewhere. They all had to build and create an identity. It didn't come overnight.

Whats wrong in wanting a quality league here? Whats wrong in wanting to see what they have in other countries here? Nothing as far as I can see.

cournioni

ANTIFA! wrote: »

I'd say why not invest that money into a club in your own country quite clearly. The same way Manchester United fans would say the same thing if their club was shunned by the people of the city in favour of supporting Real Madrid.(Thats another thing I don't like the way fans of foreign clubs try to make it out that we are somehow wrong for having a desire to see the league in ireland succeed as if this makes us odd or something, when in fact all true football fans would sympathise with us.)

I'd say you are a football fan though for going to all those matches and fair dues for attending LOI games. I mean surely any football fan would want to view live football when possible? I know I would.

I do invest in LOI games, as many as I can afford. But being from where I am from I do not have any connection with any of the clubs around me. I am not a Dundalk man, a Drogheda man, a Dublin man and I am most certainly not a Monaghan man. None of my family are and the only real connections I have are in the red part of Manchester where some of my family have lived for a number of years when they were working there. All of my family support them and they were the first team I went to see as a kid. You cannot change that I'm afraid.

I am sure alot of people in Ireland have the same connection to English clubs in the same way that I have through their family and having no connection with their "local" clubs. For example who should a person from Cavan, Meath, Offaly, Laois, Carlow, Kerry, Tipperary, Clare, Roscommon, Leitrim etc. support? These places will have no connections with LOI clubs unless family or friends from Dublin, Cork, Dundalk etc. support their local teams and pass it on to them. It's all about going to games with your family or mates. That is where the enjoyment of being at the game comes from, the rest just grows on you.

UnitedIrishman

I wish I was drunk reading this thread. I might be able to grasp what it's about.

Anyways, European League - wouldn't work and just.. no.

UnitedIrishman

dreamers75 wrote: »

your obviously more drunk than i am.

but i shall explain this as simple as i can.

Football fans go to football matches.

People who like football watch it on tv.

Boards.ie falls into the 2nd category, a massive amount of people who like football. They are not football fans as they are not at matches, they are people who like football on tv.

But they are better than everyone else as the football they like on tv is ranked batter than everyone elses football.


Seriously if your an LOI militant, give it up. If they dont go to see their own teams play they are not going to see your team play.


Accept it and move on.


Ronan/raven the exception of course.

Also, what is this about? Didn't realise that there are no 'football fans' on Boards... please direct me to the TV forum.

Mr.Nice Guy

ANTIFA! wrote:

Whats wrong in wanting a quality league here? Whats wrong in wanting to see what they have in other countries here? Nothing as far as I can see.

Your ambition is about as realistic as the Irish language being restored as the spoken language of the country. What's wrong in having a regularly spoken national language like other countries have eh? Nice idea but ignores the simple reality that we are culturally immersed in the English language and this won't change.

Likewise in a football sense we are culturally immersed in following teams in Britain. LOI teams in effect will remain like the national language - supported by a few, ignored by the many.

What amazes me about these LOI fans lashing out at the dastardly 'barstoolers' and their shameful support of a foreign team is that they don't seem to appreciate the sport itself is foreign. If you really want to be crusaders of all things Irish then stop attending the 'foreign' football games, go and buy your county's GAA jersey and go support your county team at hurling/gaelic football.

Let me guess lads, you don't feel like it? Well now you know how the rest of us feel.

ANTIFA!

''The Sport itself is foreign'' A strawman if ever I saw one. It be like saying that a family with a French or English surname is foreign even if their families came here centuries ago. Or that the entire population of Ireland is foreign because the original settlers came from what is now galicia.

It has nothing to do with them being Irish, I'm not patriotic in the slightest. I am however a football fan. Something you clearly don't grasp.

Scottish and Norwegians are also culturally immersed in English football, they still follow clubs in their own League! Why can't you get this?

The LOI will clearly never be La Liga or EPL but its well below its potential currently.

Your post is quite pathetic by the way.

anonymous_joe

Ironically what'd be ideal for the likes of the OP would be a league made up of smaller countries which Ireland could play in.

For example, a league of Scottish, Norn Irish, Welsh and Irish teams would be more viable than the four that are existence. Obviously it would all descend into a violent mess as knackers of every creed endeavoured to murder each other, but it'd be a nice idea.

I could potentially see the Scandinavians or Baltic nations doing a league together, but that's about it.

In a vaguely ideal world you'd have the smaller countries in multi-national leagues to allow those nations bigger clubs some chance of keeping their players. Eg, a combined Belgian Dutch league would create a league which, while not as big as the Premiership, would allow for more tv income, etc.

Helix

Gavin shels wrote: »

Indeed but it's only in the last 20-25 years that stadiums are basically empty, before that stadiums would be selling out with 10,000 - 12,000 fans every weekend.

they didnt charge such obscene prices in back in those days though did they?

dont get me wrong, im an loi follower, but you cant really compare things. the league is horribly overpriced which doesnt help attract new fans

ANTIFA!

Damn it I hate the term but I'm gonna go for it, that has to be a case of West Britishness? I mean you flat out refuse to ever step foot in a LOI ground(if assumming Arsenal never played here?) for what reason?

I'd live in a country, any country and by the week is out I would go to see whatever the closest team to me in action is.

Is there a sense that by going to a LOI match you feel it will damage your connection with Arsenal?

I mean if you're so big on Arsenal you could even see a few products of their youth system who didn't make the grade playing in Tallaght(jesus i feel dirty) Bradley and Barrett.

OPENROAD

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Damn it I hate the term but I'm gonna go for it, that has to be a case of West Britishness? I mean you flat out refuse to ever step foot in a LOI ground(if assumming Arsenal never played here?) for what reason?

I'd live in a country, any country and by the week is out I would go to see whatever the closest team to me in action is.

Is there a sense that by going to a LOI match you feel it will damage your support for Arsenal?

It is not a case of refusing to step foot in a LOI ground,I have zero interest in the LOI or any team in the LOI, by the way I'm a ST holder at Arsenal not that it really matters.

Mr.Nice Guy

ANTIFA! wrote: »

''The Sport itself is foreign'' A strawman if ever I saw one.

It has nothing to do with them being Irish, I'm not patriotic in the slightest. I am however a football fan. Something you clearly don't grasp.

Scottish and Norwegians are also culturally immersed in English football, they still follow clubs in their own League! Why can't you get this?

The LOI will clearly never be La Liga or EPL but its well below its potential currently.

Your post is quite pathetic by the way.

Wait, it's NOT about being patriotic? I've read pages of you bemoaning the fact that Irish people are supporting English clubs and so if it's not about being patriotic, why do you care? You brought up 'West Britishness' and now you're claiming it's not about some sort of patriotism? Come off it.

Scotland and Norway are not culturally immersed to the extent Ireland is and have clubs of a higher standard than those in our league. These countries have a traditon of Champions League football meanwhile significant advances in Europe from Irish clubs this season didn't even get TV time, as the state broadcaster thought the public weren't interested. You'd never see that happen with Rangers or Rosenborg would you? Scottish and Norwegian clubs can qualify for Champions League football, Irish clubs can't even qualify for air time on RTE 2. Work it out.

I don't know why you thought my post was pathetic as it's just telling it like it is. I think this whole thread has been a bit of a joke to be honest and I'd hope tomorrow you'd reflect that some of the things you wrote were, at best, OTT.

It's been the equivalent of watching a guy who's had too much to drink get up and do a jig. It's funny for the first few minutes but as it goes on it gets less and less funny and ultimately becomes rather sad.

anonymous_joe

ANTIFA! wrote: »

Damn it I hate the term but I'm gonna go for it, that has to be a case of West Britishness?

What's the need for that?

I know no-one who supports an Irish team. I know no-one who wants to. It doesn't help that there's such a massive negative attitude towards people who like 'foreign' football here either.

The standard of football in this country is dire. Often enough that's a weather issue. It's also a money issue. The more money a team has, the higher their wages, and the higher the standard of player.

A European League would allow for even higher wages, and would guarentee the world's best. A low-wage league like the LoI will always struggle.

ANTIFA!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

What's the need for that?

I know no-one who supports an Irish team. I know no-one who wants to. It doesn't help that there's such a massive negative attitude towards people who like 'foreign' football here either.

The standard of football in this country is dire. Often enough that's a weather issue. It's also a money issue. The more money a team has, the higher their wages, and the higher the standard of player.

A European League would allow for even higher wages, and would guarentee the world's best. A low-wage league like the LoI will always struggle.

Compared to who? The English League? Fans in Scotland don't say **** the SPL, lets just support the EPL because the standard is ****e up here.

Why do you ignore the unbelievable gains Irish football has made in recent years. Gloryhunting for Manchester United or Liverpool you may not find anything spectacular about Pat's beating the team 6th in Russia over two legs but to me it shows the standard is far from dire. Keith Fahey, Gary Deegan, Brian Murphy, Brian Shelley Joseph Ndo, Jay O'Shea all players who have played or are playing in the League over the past year this tells me the standard is not dire. Bohs came within 5 minutes of advancing in the CL against a team which has had 60 million euro invested in it and countless Internationals compared to Bohs one former International.

Would these friends of yours who are fans drop the English clubs they picked if they were relegated to a lower division?

ANTIFA!

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Wait, it's NOT about being patriotic? I've read pages of you bemoaning the fact that Irish people are supporting English clubs and so if it's not about being patriotic, why do you care? You brought up 'West Britishness' and now you're claiming it's not about some sort of patriotism? Come off it.

Scotland and Norway are not culturally immersed to the extent Ireland is and have clubs of a higher standard than those in our league. These countries have a traditon of Champions League football meanwhile significant advances in Europe from Irish clubs this season didn't even get TV time, as the state broadcaster thought the public weren't interested. You'd never see that happen with Rangers or Rosenborg would you? Scottish and Norwegian clubs can qualify for Champions League football, Irish clubs can't even qualify for air time on RTE 2. Work it out.

I don't know why you thought my post was pathetic as it's just telling it like it is. I think this whole thread has been a bit of a joke to be honest and I'd hope tomorrow you'd reflect that some of the things you wrote were, at best, OTT.

It's been the equivalent of watching a guy who's had too much to drink get up and do a jig. It's funny for the first few minutes but as it goes on it gets less and less funny and ultimately becomes rather sad.

Let me spell this out for you before I go to bed.

If I was to show this thread on a primarly English based forum I'm on they would completely agree with me.

It hasn't been a 'joke' Its went someway off topic but not a joke. The question as to why soccer in Ireland is drastically under supported is a big question and no better place to discuss it than on the biggest forum in Ireland. In fact its the biggest question that exists in Irish football. Its long term consequences are much greater than if Trapattoni can guide Ireland to South Africa or anything else.

Perhaps it will take English Top flight clubs shunning Irish players in favour of other foreign players and an extremely weak National team before we realise that we need to look at our own house and get it in order. It might be the wake up call the masses in Ireland need.

Xavi6

Thankfully I'm sober enough to be able to take this thread seriously.

The discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread title and I can only assume it was a clever guise under which to have a pop at EPL fans

Therefore she's getting locked (just like one or two of you appear to be )