To all the people who marched today with "No to Lisbon" leaflets/signs.

reabhloid_rua

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I just want to ask if you see where I'm coming from? That the 'No to Lisbon' placards will put a lot of people off and can only hurt the 'No to NAMA' message, which I'm sure you'll agree is of the utmost importance at the moment. We need to send a clear decisive message to the government about NAMA, and I certainly don't think that's what we did today.

If anything, today ensured that the turn out next week wont reach it's full potential. Like I said to Sean at the end of the march, if I was to get 20 people to come, after seeing pictures of todays march at least 10 wouldn't want to come.
They would be anti-NAMA but pro-Lisbon.

Lisbon is such a divisive issue, that I feel we're in very dangerous territory having it associated with the anti-NAMA movement.
Based on the latest polls, I would say that at least half of the people at the march were pro-Lisbon - yet they kept Lisbon out of it - but were effectively in an anti-Lisbon march.

Like I said I'm not actively supporting any side as far as Lisbon is concerned at the moment as I feel that NAMA should take precedent right now.

I agree, again our placards were not meant to cause division. I can see your point completely.

flamez911

What annoyed me far more than Sinn Fein, who at least had the courtesy to put "No to NAMA" on their posters whether they also mentioned Lisbon as well, were the two guys with the huge damaged Cóir "monkey" posters from Lisbon I that had no mention whatsoever of NAMA.

I had half a mind to go over to the guys and tell them to get their fascist asses out of the protest, but I didn't want to cause a fight in the end.

stepbar

Daftendirekt wrote: »

None of which explains why you felt it was okay to hijack an anti-NAMA protest.

The fact that 'the march was made largely up of No to Lisbon campaigners' is utterly irrelevant. I feel confident in saying there were probably plenty of Yes to Lisbon campaigners there as well. These were people who had agreed to march under a banner of opposition to NAMA.

In displaying your anti-Lisbon signs, you are not only attempting to portray the march as an anti-Lisbon one (and misrepresenting the position of any Yes voters attending), but you're also diluting the message of the protest, which was 'No to NAMA'.

Thanks to you and anyone who brought their 'No to Lisbon, No to NAMA' signs, the no to NAMA protesters will be lumped in with Cóir and their ilk whether they want to be or not, and possibly dismissed as cranks by potential allies who didn't know what the march was actually about.

They were asked by the PU to do so. Clearly the PU march was a sham march to begin with, and even more so when they had to ask Sinn Fein for support.

Daftendirekt

stepbar wrote: »

They were asked by the PU to do so. Clearly the PU march was a sham march to begin with, and even more so when they had to ask Sinn Fein for support.

Okay, I may have missed that. Were the PU the organisers of the NAMA march then?

marco murphy

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Okay, I may have missed that. Were the PU the organisers of the NAMA march then?

Of course.

Daftendirekt

Ah. In that case, apologies to reabhloid_rua if my post came across as being overly aggressive.

zootroid

So how many people actually attended the march then?

I completely agree with the OP though. I wouldn't be too pleased if I went to protest against NAMA, only to see other people protesting against Lisbon and other matters. I'm in favour of Lisbon, so wouldn't want to be associated with a protest against it.

stepbar

zootroid wrote: »

So how many people actually attended the march then?

I completely agree with the OP though. I wouldn't be too pleased if I went to protest against NAMA, only to see other people protesting against Lisbon and other matters. I'm in favour of Lisbon, so wouldn't want to be associated with a protest against it.

The figures range from 500 - 1000 and the optimistic have put it at 1500. Half of them were probably Shinners. Still a sham by all stretches of the imagination.

Stark

I don't see the need for a "No to Lisbon" protest anyway. We've plenty of No campaign posters around the place (as well as Yes posters) and we'll be having a referendum on the issue on Oct 2nd. There'll be no referendum on NAMA, hence the need for a display of protest if people want their voices heard.

reabhloid_rua

stepbar wrote: »

The figures range from 500 - 1000 and the optimistic have put it at 1500. Half of them were probably Shinners. Still a sham by all stretches of the imagination.

I respectfully disgaree. Although from dealing with the organisers of the march and they were highly disorganised, it was a worth while venture so I say fair play to them and anyone who can generate 1000 (my estimation) people on to the street for such a demonstration. In this climate the more people that voice their opposition to this govt's attempt to hood wink us all, the better.

Let's hope there as many out next Saturday 19th!

reabhloid_rua

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Ah. In that case, apologies to reabhloid_rua if my post came across as being overly aggressive.

No problem. But yes we were invited and infact asked to turn out large numbers as the organisers thought it was going to be a disaster. The People before profit alliance were asked like wise.

ei.sdraob

reabhloid_rua wrote: »

Hi all,

Firstly, I am Dublin Sinn Féin's main organiser.

what the **** does NAMA have to do with Lisbon :mad:


shame on yee!

lostexpectation

welcome to proteting all sorts of people turn up for diferent reasons live with, your not so pure yourself

ei.sdraob

lostexpectation wrote: »

welcome to proteting all sorts of people turn up for diferent reasons live with, your not so pure yourself

what have i done?

i dont hijack a protest on economic issue

with own political agenda

what SF and others have done is low and sickening

ive absolutely not respect for these SF puppets now

jumping in bed with UK euro skeptics was bad enough, hijacking a protest about something as important as Ireland for a completely unrelated cause is just downright slimy

:mad:

Kama

If they were invited, it's not exactly hijacking. I am still quite curious as to why the banner-placards that fronted the march and provided the backdrop to the speakers were anti-Lisbon though, was that an organized thing, or opportunism?

The main thing to me is the tactical issue; if it's a Nama protest, its done a severe disservice by having the appearance of a Lisbon protest, and whatever the motivation the result is to shoot the effort in the foot. What's (presumably) intended as a uniting broad-church approach of 'all one struggle' causes more of a partisan split. Nama is enough of an abomination regardless of ones ideology that foregrounding a Left message diminishes rather than increases popular support.

lostexpectation

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what have i done?

i dont hijack a protest on economic issue

with own political agenda

what SF and others have done is low and sickening

ive absolutely not respect for these SF puppets now

jumping in bed with UK euro skeptics was bad enough, hijacking a protest about something as important as Ireland for a completely unrelated cause is just downright slimy

:mad:

seems you've hijacked this thread with anti sf agenda

ei.sdraob

lostexpectation wrote: »

seems you've hijacked this thread with anti sf agenda

how so

my reasoning and opinion is the same as the op

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62074422&postcount=1


please to tell how im not being on topic here?

OldJay

Kama wrote: »

if it's a Nama protest, its done a severe disservice by having the appearance of a Lisbon protest, and whatever the motivation the result is to shoot the effort in the foot

. . . and thats exactly what they did.

optocynic

Perestroika wrote: »

Wow, were hundreds put off? Did you count?
Why are you putting so much effort into this if you really think its having a negative impact on the No to NAMA campaign?

Personally, I'm passionately campaigning against Lisbon, I will use every opportunity to campaign for a No vote, even at NAMA marches.

You have the political instincts of Idi Amin!

Parva leves capiunt animas

Kama

The basic question is whether people think it's more imprtant to score petty political points, in-thread or on the streets, or more important to stop Nama from going through.

I'm firmly on the latter side. If we concentrate on mutual recrimination rather than getting the message across, its our fail tbqfh.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Political points on an internet forum are teh bestest.

This is a bit of a non-issue. At marches and protests all parties, groups , factions and people show up with their own gear and their own agenda. Always happens.