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Red C Opinion Poll - 52% Yes

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    #62
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    bayviewclose wrote: »
    What Im saying you are voting for the whole package here. Most people would admit that they would yes to A, B, C but not necessarily to D, E, and F.

    So you choose on balance and for me I'm mostly happy that it's for the best. And I know we can negotiate changes to the next treaty if need be, just like we've always done.


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    #63
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    nesf wrote: »
    Dude, that statement is from 1950...

    And the Irish Constitution is from the 1920's.

    What's your point ?


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    #64
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rosco1982 wrote: »
    What's your point ?

    That it doesn't have any bearing on what the EU of today will do. There's been over 50 years of evolution in the community since that happened and the lack of a federalist majority in the EP would further underline how this is a minority viewpoint.

    It's not the equivalent to the Irish Constitution, it's the equivalent of picking out some statement by a politician in the 50's and saying that's the Irish Government's present plan.


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    #65
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    nesf wrote: »
    That it doesn't have any bearing on what the EU of today will do. There's been over 50 years of evolution in the community since that happened and the lack of a federalist majority in the EP would further underline how this is a minority viewpoint.

    It's not the equivalent to the Irish Constitution, it's the equivalent of picking out some statement by a politician in the 50's and saying that's the Irish Government's present plan.

    So there isn't a move to a federal state then ?

    Why is more power being centralised if the goal isn't a federal state ?


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    #66
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Rosco1982 wrote: »
    So there isn't a move to a federal state then ?

    Why is more power being centralised if the goal isn't a federal state ?

    please do tell us


    what power is being centralized?

    by whom?

    and where?


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    #67
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rosco1982 wrote: »
    Why is more power being centralised if the goal isn't a federal state ?


    How is power being centralised?


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    #68
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    nesf wrote: »
    How is power being centralised?

    Changes to the pillars. Extension of QMV.


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    #69
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rosco1982 wrote: »
    Changes to the pillars. Extension of QMV.

    Is that meaningful centralisation though? Most of the key parts of Governance, i.e. Budget policy, education policy etc are not subject to the EU. For a true Federalist, Lisbon isn't much of a step forward, more of a step sideways.


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    #70
    ilovelamp2000
    Registered Users Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭ilovelamp2000


    nesf wrote: »
    Is that meaningful centralisation though? Most of the key parts of Governance, i.e. Budget policy, education policy etc are not subject to the EU.

    If it wasn't meaningful we wouldn't be having a referendum.

    As for key parts of governance, we've given up lots of them already which have already shown to be to our detriment. The Euro, European interest rates etc are partly to blame for our current situation. (along with the FF cowboys).

    Who is to say we won't be giving up the rest of those key parts of governance in another decades time ?


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    #71
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Rosco1982 wrote: »
    As for key parts of governance, we've given up lots of them already which have already shown to be to our detriment. The Euro, European interest rates etc are partly to blame for our current situation. (along with the FF cowboys)

    The Euro is also what protects us from the fate that befell Iceland. It's a double edged sword with benefits and costs. We were going through a property bubble long before we had the Euro though.


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