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Has Irish Independence Been A Success?

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    #92
    RiverWilde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »
    Ah so you're saying that development in Ireland was segregated between Dublin/the rest of the country in the same way that blacks and whites were segregated in apartheid South Africa.

    Thats, um, interesting....about as much of a myth as DeV's vision of green pastures I'm afraid

    Is that a nice bridge you're living under?

    If you look at the development of Ireland since independence, the east coast has gotten the lions share of resources whilst the rest of the country has been let rot. Now that the bubble has burst that divide will only get worse.

    Riv


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    #93
    Kalashnikov_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    RiverWilde wrote: »
    Is that a nice bridge you're living under?

    If you look at the development of Ireland since independence, the east coast has gotten the lions share of resources whilst the rest of the country has been let rot. Now that the bubble has burst that divide will only get worse.

    Riv

    You will find that if you lay down your copy if the Indo and do some research that by enlarge, it was all relative.

    What area of Ireland is the most populated again?

    Some types of investment need a certain amount of population and density to be worthwhile and sustainable.

    We would have been in more trouble now if we started building motorways been Athlone and Tullamore and the like.

    Parochial gombeen politics is not the way forward. Look at the bigger picture.


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    #94
    RiverWilde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »
    Parochial gombeen politics is not the way forward. Look at the bigger picture.

    Indeed, we have a political/business class that has taken this country for a ride and grossly enriched themselves at the expense of the rest of society.

    This same business class hops up and down to get into Europe to gain access to the wider european market and then whines when europe comes in here to trade.

    There may have been demographic factors that meant alot of the development stayed on the east cost. That said, it's no excuse, especially when the amount of money being squandered could have been used more effectively.

    Riv


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    #95
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    flamez911 wrote: »
    Holy crap, did you just equate Ireland under the Act of Union to the Holocaust? That's a pretty goddamn extreme comment and better have some backing up.
    There were just different numbers of people murdered in both situation. The brits systematically murdered our people like the Nazis did to jews but in lesser numbers. They forced us to starve and stole everything we owned. Different levels but both equally bad to the victim who was tortured and murdered.


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    #96
    ANTIFA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭ANTIFA!


    Culturally today we are more English than the Scots imo, but I'm happy Ireland is not part of United Kingdom.


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    #97
    ANTIFA!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭ANTIFA!


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    There were just different numbers of people murdered in both situation. The brits systematically murdered our people like the Nazis did to jews but in lesser numbers. They forced us to starve and stole everything we owned. Different levels but both equally bad to the victim who was tortured and murdered.

    Well in fairness they also allowed thousands of Irish go and live and work there. I mean if they were really that evil and had hatred for the Irish they wouldn't have let Irish people in.


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    #98
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    ANTIFA! wrote: »
    Well in fairness they also allowed thousands of Irish go and live and work there. I mean if they were really that evil and had hatred for the Irish they wouldn't have let Irish people in.
    "They allowed"? Dont fool yourself, they used the Irish as cheap labour and then rubbed our noses in it when they refused to allow the Irish use their guest houses etc. Remember when they openly displayed notices in windows that said "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish need apply" On building sites sometimes there were signs that they read "No Blacks, No Irish"
    So the "allowed us"? Britain was and is an enemy of Ireland. They still illegally hold on to part of our country. When they leave only then will I respect them as a European neighbour like Poland Latvia etc.


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    #99
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    "They allowed"? Dont fool yourself, they used the Irish as cheap labour and then rubbed our noses in it when they refused to allow the Irish use their guest houses etc. Remember when they openly displayed notices in windows that said "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish need apply" On building sites sometimes there were signs that they read "No Blacks, No Irish"
    So the "allowed us"? Britain was and is an enemy of Ireland. They still illegally hold on to part of our country. When they leave only then will I respect them as a European neighbour like Poland Latvia etc.

    Wow. Where to begin with replying to such a childisih, blinkered and ill-read post as that?

    Do you think the Baltic, Central and Eastern European states respect you despite 'you' not having done a thing to free them from over forty years surpressed under Soviet bloc rule?
    Not all Irish people had a torrid time across the ditch as you so conveniently broad-brush. Many did fine and settled there . . . which is why there is a huge second and third generation of Irish descent in Britain.

    The enemy . . . lol :rolleyes:


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    #100
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    Justind wrote: »
    Wow. Where to begin with replying to such a childisih, blinkered and ill-read post as that?

    Do you think the Baltic, Central and Eastern European states respect you despite 'you' not having done a thing to free them from over forty years surpressed under Soviet bloc rule?

    The enemy . . . lol :rolleyes:
    "Il-read"? Now sit down dopey.


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    #101
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    "Il-read"? Now sit down dopey.
    Yes. Ill-read.
    Misinformed. Ill-informed. Brainwashed. Badly read. Poorly taught.


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    #102
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    Justind wrote: »
    Yes. Ill-read.
    Misinformed. Ill-informed. Brainwashed. Badly read. Poorly taught.
    Tread carefully britty


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    #103
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    Tread carefully britty

    Is that a proper threat or are you having a fantasy?


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    #104
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    bleg wrote: »
    UKIP and Sinn Fein in bed together.
    Would there be any sex ! !


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    #105
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    Tread carefully britty
    I'm not British and I don't need to "tread carefully", especially on your advice.

    Grow up.


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    #106
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    Justind wrote: »
    I'm not British and I don't need to "tread carefully", especially on your advice.

    Grow up.
    Where I come from and my family background we had a word for brit lovers.


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    #107
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    mike65 wrote: »
    Is that a proper threat or are you having a fantasy?
    Threat? No threat matey. I dont do those silly foolish things. Leave that to dopey and co


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    #108
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    Where I come from and my family background we had a word for brit lovers.

    Beauty of the internet, I guess. Any young welp can threaten or pretend to be anything they want, all while being safe and sound behind the anonymity of an IP address, a firewall and a moniker.

    You just backed up everything I said in the original reply. Congrats.


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    #109
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    Justind wrote: »
    Beauty of the internet, I guess. Any young welp can threaten or pretend to be anything they want, all while being safe and sound behind the anonymity of an IP address, a firewall and a moniker.

    You just backed up everything I said in the original reply. Congrats.
    Hey dopey I do not do threats. No my scene. Just tread carefully meant that I will be watching and report you when you get out of hand little chappie. NOW sit down please and be quiet. Cant be bothered with fools.


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    #110
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    Tread carefully britty

    Britty? not heard that one before. Oh, wait, I did when I was 5.


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    #111
    itsonlywords
    Closed Accounts Posts: 339 ✭✭itsonlywords


    dooferoaks wrote: »
    Britty? not heard that one before. Oh, wait, I did when I was 5.
    Last year? Wow what a memory:D:D:D


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    #112
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    itsonlywords wrote: »
    Last year? Wow what a memory:D:D:D

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggg.


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    #113
    BryanL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭BryanL


    Of course it's been a success, people are crying now because they are in negative equity, this is the first time the country has had negative equity, the UK has it every 10-20 years.
    I can see nothing in british society that i think betters Ireland.
    Any mess we find ourselves in, at least it's Our mess and we can change it.
    Post Independence is always difficult for any country where it has to been won through war. The first group of politicians are usually ex soldiers which is never ideal.
    Bryan


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    #114
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    Justind wrote: »
    Not all Irish people had a torrid time across the ditch as you so conveniently broad-brush. Many did fine and settled there . . . which is why there is a huge second and third generation of Irish descent in Britain.


    no, not all, but a vast majority did have a bad time. take the areas of england where the irish community stands out, like liverpool or manchester, or area of london like kilburn or brixton. these are areas where most of the irish that left to work in england ended up, and they're only now regenerating. the north west is still suffering from an inferiority complex.
    the many that did fine just did enough to get by. there was only one james murphy.


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    #115
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    anyway that has nothing to do with the question. yes ireland is better off. our public health system isn't as good as theirs but the private one could beat any in the world. our education system is was better (a-levels are ridiculous exams and don't prepare anyone for life, never mind college).
    the irish society is better, contrary to popular world wide belief it is the britlanders that can't drink without fighting, not so much us. maybe living in the area where street wars was filmed tarnished my views, but it's true!!


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    #116
    dRNk SAnTA
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭dRNk SAnTA


    What is the point of this question?

    We were a 3rd world colony when they left and now we're richer than them...


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    #117
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Bock the Robber wrote: »

    Nobody said it was the sole criterion. Where did you get that from?


    It was the only criterion mentioned by the poster to whom I replied. That's where I got it.


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    #118
    ballsymchugh
    Registered Users Posts: 7,937 ✭✭✭ballsymchugh


    dRNk SAnTA wrote: »
    What is the point of this question?

    We were a 3rd world colony when they left and now we're richer than them...


    agreed.


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    #119
    dkin
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭dkin


    Some thought on this topic

    Roman Catholic control of country - raping and brainwashing, mindless servitude to priests, suppression of all independent and anti-establishment thought. Magdelene laundries. Definitely not a good thing and of enormous long term impact, thankfully we've thrown off that yoke to a large degree basicly occupation under a different name.

    No indigenous industry entirely reliant on American companies to supply jobs, 80% of exports by FDI attracted companies. Only here for our tax breaks. Irish education system is not that good do you really think rote learning geography, home ec, ag sci, biology etc. is a good education? There are constant reports about the declining number of students taking higher level maths. In the PISA report Ireland and the UK are approximately the same for science and maths, nothing to be proud of as many countries are above us.

    Irish average GDP per capita was the same as Britains pre WW I, putting us in the top 10 world wide. After independence this would have collapsed as Britain forged ahead despite fighting several world wars and we were left with bad economic polices and mass emigration and the after effects pf a civil war.

    General suspicion of science and technology as 'anglo' leading to a massive underfunding of universities and an enormous decline in scientific output. Ireland effectively turned into a island of sweatshops with very little advanced industry and absolutely no scientific standing on the world stage.

    Cultural failures - Number of gaeltacht areas in irreversible decline, huge amounts of money spent every year on teaching and promoting the Irish language with negligable effect.
    Cultural Successes - Irish dancing seems to be growing, GAA is a fantastic organisation although too monopolistic.

    Broken democracy, too many TDs who spend most of their time fixing minor local issues and have no long term strategic vision, merely greedy pawns. We have a very poor collection of public representatives and the alternatives are equally bad.

    HSE an absolute disgrace, hospitals are not even clean and we spend an enormous amount of money every year keeping it running more than the UK per capita according to the WHO.

    We have done some good things chief among them was to join the EU and we've handled the recent surge in immigration quite well though time will tell.

    It's impossible to say whether we would have been better off staying under British rule, it is quite possible that we would have been left as a forgotten backwater with very little of the european investment that helped us to slowly drag our way out. I think the UK has gone backwards over time in comparison to Germany, France and the Scandinavian countries.
    On the other hand we've made a mighty mess of independence and are now in servitude status entirely reliant on the ECB to keep us ticking over, american multinationals for jobs and tax take and in debt up to our eyeballs.


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    #120
    reabhloid_rua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭reabhloid_rua


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    Is Ireland a better place thanks to independence?

    I apologise for my lateness to this debate as I've only registered.

    What kind of reply would you get from an Irish person living in Derry?

    Actual independance hasn't been recognised as yet.


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    #121
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    reabhloid_rua wrote: »
    I apologise for my lateness to this debate as I've only registered.

    What kind of reply would you get from an Irish person living in Derry?

    Actual independance hasn't been recognised as yet.

    Damn. That means you'll miss out on NAMA.


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