Lisbon: Yes for Jobs?

BlondieCait

Hello,

Lisbon posters;

Lisbon, yes for jobs
Lisbon, yes for the economy


Have read the Treaty this morning, and to my disbelief I could not find the areas that mention jobs or the economy.

Could anybody point me in the right direction.

ei.sdraob

BlondieCait wrote: »

Hello,

Lisbon posters;

Lisbon, yes for jobs
Lisbon, yes for the economy


Have read the Treaty this morning, and to my disbelief I could not find the areas that mention jobs or the economy.

Could anybody point me in the right direction.

read the bits about common energy policy

and the bits about green technologies and combating climate change

P. Breathnach

BlondieCait wrote: »

Hello,

Lisbon posters;

Lisbon, yes for jobs
Lisbon, yes for the economy


Have read the Treaty this morning, and to my disbelief I could not find the areas that mention jobs or the economy.

Could anybody point me in the right direction.

It's on the same page as the €1.84 minimum wage.

BlondieCait

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and the bits about green technologies and combating climate change

Green technologies and "combating" climate change......

I thought they were on about saving the economy, green technologies and "combating" climate change are going to result in the utter destruction of the economy and living standards in the EU.

Maybe I am missing the point.

FutureTaoiseach

Bizarrely for this claim, FDI in Ireland has apparently actually increased in Ireland since the no vote. Ours is essentially a construction-related recession. That is where it is coming from. It has nothing to do with the no vote whatsoever. Irish exports have risen 5% in the year up to April, compared to a drop of 29% in Germany. In June, Irish exports also rose 5%. Irish industrial production rose 8.9% in the year to July – rising by a huge 68.3% in the American pharmaceutical sector here. This evidence suggests strongly that the no vote has not impacted negatively on investor sentiment of Ireland. Intel and Ryanair have their own reasons for supporting Lisbon, relating to Intel’s appeal against the €1.06 billion fine, and Ryanair’s desire to takeover Aer Lingus which the Commission previously blocked. What is dragging the economy down has nothing do with Lisbon, but may partly be laid at the door of the ECB’s monetary policy, which has imposed Franco-German interests on an economy at the perhipery of Europe, which had an overheating economy until 2008. A property-bubble and crash became inevitable as a consequence. If anything, events underline the dangers of too much centralisation of economic sovereignty in supranational institutions, which tend to be dominated by the Big States.

ei.sdraob

BlondieCait wrote: »

Green technologies and "combating" climate change......

I thought they were on about saving the economy, green technologies and "combating" climate change are going to result in the utter destruction of the economy and living standards in the EU.

Maybe I am missing the point.

tell that to the greens who want to introduce carbon taxes which i oppose



anyways read this natgeo article about energy boom and jobs created in germany due to solar power, and they are now world leaders

if our government follows same steps as German government then yes it would absolutely create jobs, especially in wind generation (germans are near top of the list in this too btw), a resources thats plentiful here

ei.sdraob

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Intel and Ryanair have their own reasons for supporting Lisbon

as opposed to Declan Ganley's (the messiah of the NO side, whose second coming is eagerly awaited) company

which makes money from disasters and wars (Hello needless war Iraq)

:rolleyes:

FutureTaoiseach

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as opposed to Declan Ganley's (the messiah of the NO side, whose second coming is eagerly awaited) company

which makes money from disasters and wars (Hello needless war Iraq)

:rolleyes:

What evidence do you have that he makes money from Iraq? I do know that the National Guard of Louisiana medal awarded to him was because Rivada provided emergency-disaster relief equipment used in the rescue after Hurricane Katrina. I hope rescuing the people of New Orleans isn't too militaristic for you. :rolleyes: And Intel also produce parts for the arms industry so I'm surprised you overlooked that.

ei.sdraob

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

What evidence do you have that he makes money from Iraq? I do know that the National Guard of Louisiana medal awarded to him was because Rivada provided emergency-disaster relief equipment used in the rescue after Hurricane Katrina. I hope rescuing the people of New Orleans isn't too militaristic for you. :rolleyes: And Intel also produce parts for the arms industry so I'm surprised you overlooked that.

evidence?

how about 190€ million contract from the military?

how about hiring one of Bush's Iraq war inner circle military advisers/generals to board of directors?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62083448&postcount=211

above links to the irish times article

being awarded a medal does not make it right to profit from the Iraq war

his money was probably spend here in Ireland campaigning against Lisbon, they are still refusing to provide the receipts for or disclose how much was spend, alt least Ryanair and Intel are being open about whats being spent and where the money came from

your friend Declan Ganley has quite a background and i will hold it against him

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0926/1222374595762.html

EU set to ask US Congress about Libertas fundraising

JUDITH CROSBIE in Brussels

Fri, Sep 26, 2008

THE EUROPEAN Parliament is to ask the US Congress about US fundraising for anti-Lisbon Treaty lobby group Libertas and will set up links with the Irish watchdog on referendum spending.

The leaders of the parliament's political groups decided to take the action after MEPs raised concerns during a parliament session this week over alleged US funding regarding Ireland's referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

MEPs are concerned about the prospect of Libertas launching a campaign across the EU for next year's European parliamentary elections, as suggested by the group's chairman, Declan Ganley.

The parliament has yet to decide whether its delegation to the Congress should visit the US to discover any information it may have on US fundraising or exchange letters on the matter.

Graham Watson, leader of the parliament's Liberal group, said he supported contacting Congress because such contacts had proved useful when discovering the source of IRA funding in the US.

The European Parliament wants to tell Ireland's Standards in Public Office Commission (Sipo) of information it might have of a European nature on Libertas funding.

"We will be establishing links with Sipo. Anything gleaned from Europe, we'll send over to them," said an official.

The parliament's leaders would "regularly and closely monitor the situation and return to the issue, in any event, in the light of any conclusion by Sipo or other Irish authorities", said a statement.

Brian Crowley, Fianna Fáil MEP for Munster, said he told the other group leaders that Sipo was the appropriate body to examine Libertas's funding.

Kathy Sinnott, independent MEP for Munster and leader of the parliament's independence/ Democracy group, said the delegation to the US could do better things than inquire about Libertas funding.

© 2008 The Irish Times

/

Sully

Jesus christ almighty, how on earth could a Yes or No vote in the first referendum effect anyone? The treaty was not reatified so could not effect anybody regardless of the Damn vote

Martin 2

FutureTaoiseach wrote: »

Bizarrely for this claim, FDI in Ireland has apparently actually increased in Ireland since the no vote. Ours is essentially a construction-related recession. That is where it is coming from. It has nothing to do with the no vote whatsoever. Irish exports have risen 5% in the year up to April, compared to a drop of 29% in Germany. In June, Irish exports also rose 5%. Irish industrial production rose 8.9% in the year to July – rising by a huge 68.3% in the American pharmaceutical sector here. This evidence suggests strongly that the no vote has not impacted negatively on investor sentiment of Ireland. Intel and Ryanair have their own reasons for supporting Lisbon, relating to Intel’s appeal against the €1.06 billion fine, and Ryanair’s desire to takeover Aer Lingus which the Commission previously blocked. What is dragging the economy down has nothing do with Lisbon, but may partly be laid at the door of the ECB’s monetary policy, which has imposed Franco-German interests on an economy at the perhipery of Europe, which had an overheating economy until 2008. A property-bubble and crash became inevitable as a consequence. If anything, events underline the dangers of too much centralisation of economic sovereignty in supranational institutions, which tend to be dominated by the Big States.

I’ve already responded to this post in two other threads, see link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62069460&postcount=36


In a recent poll of economists ( http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0912/1224254386236.html ) “Just under 91 per cent of the economists expressed the belief a Yes vote best-served the economic interests of the State”

If I were asked, with reference to the treaty, I’d say that the Energy and Environmental provisions have the potential to create jobs in green energy technology development. Ei.sdraob has already mentioned this.

passive

BlondieCait wrote: »

Hello,

Lisbon posters;

Lisbon, yes for jobs
Lisbon, yes for the economy


Have read the Treaty this morning, and to my disbelief I could not find the areas that mention jobs or the economy.

Could anybody point me in the right direction.

Hello,

Politics.ie 10th fake account sham.

**** off, there's a direction.

ei.sdraob

Martin 2 wrote: »

I’ve already responded to this post in two other threads, see link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62069460&postcount=36


In a recent poll of economists ( http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0912/1224254386236.html ) “Just under 91 per cent of the economists expressed the belief a Yes vote best-served the economic interests of the State”

If I were asked, with reference to the treaty, I’d say that the Energy and Environmental provisions have the potential to create jobs in green energy technology development. Ei.sdraob has already mentioned this.

thanks for the link, interesting

Tridion

Lisbon also creates jobs through the injection of money into new areas of responsibility like sport and tourism. The green area is a massive one.

Plus for the first time the objective of full employment becomes an underlying value for the EU.

Lisbon is good for jobs.

ixtlan

Martin 2 wrote: »

In a recent poll of economists ( http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0912/1224254386236.html ) “Just under 91 per cent of the economists expressed the belief a Yes vote best-served the economic interests of the State”

Yes, thanks from me also.

How dreadful are the Yes side? If I had access to money for posters I'd have this on posters everywhere within a few days and get the media talking about it.

Ix.

Mario007

ixtlan wrote: »

Yes, thanks from me also.

How dreadful are the Yes side? If I had access to money for posters I'd have this on posters everywhere within a few days and get the media talking about it.

Ix.

yeah but at least we can use it while canvassing when someone asks about the jobs...

puffdragon

Yes bloody rich of the Fiana's to be looking into Declan Ganleys funding,jazus they must be terrified of him .

There is one enormous change in the 2009 campaign: the context.

Since the 2008 vote, Ireland has been plunged into a deep recession. The budget deficit has exploded to previously unimaginable proportions and the country is relying on an implicit guarantee from the European Central Bank for the borrowing necessary to sustain the economy.

Unemployment has soared. Wages have fallen and property prices have collapsed. The world is now a much more threatening and uncertain place. Fear will play a much greater part in this campaign than it did last year.

This changed context applies to Ireland’s anxious EU partners as much as Ireland.

Nobody can say for sure what the reaction will be if there is a second No vote, but a couple of things are clear: the other EU governments want this treaty implemented and, if Ireland votes No, the treaty is dead.

Next year, a Conservative government is almost certain to take office in London, and it will not agree to Lisbon if it is not already in place.

Other EU governments are likely to press ahead with the Lisbon-type reforms, especially under existing provisions for ‘enhanced co-operation’, where a group of countries can pursue closer integration, such as with the euro, for instance.

If there is a No vote, the EU will not cease to function; it has managed to function without the Lisbon Treaty these last 13months.But a fresh round of soul-searching about the EU’s legitimacy would be likely - to be followed, as usual, by a fresh round of institutional tinkering.

Whatever blame is going around for that will come our way.

Cróga

Tridion wrote: »

Lisbon also creates jobs through the injection of money into new areas of responsibility like sport and tourism. The green area is a massive one.

Plus for the first time the objective of full employment becomes an underlying value for the EU.

Lisbon is good for jobs.

How does a piece of paper create jobs? I thought people do that....... and this injection of "money" is it a loan or are they given it to us for "free" ? Either way its still debt, and its still printing "money" out of nothing and inflating the currency. Which is how we're in this mess. No one ask where money comes from and how and who creates it?

BlitzKrieg

Croga wrote: »

How does a piece of paper create jobs? I thought people do that.......

people need training, and article 166 (TFEU) has alot of EU support for training

meglome

Croga wrote: »

How does a piece of paper create jobs? I thought people do that....... and this injection of "money" is it a loan or are they given it to us for "free" ? Either way its still debt, and its still printing "money" out of nothing and inflating the currency. Which is how we're in this mess. No one ask where money comes from and how and who creates it?

We're in this mess because our government ****ed up royally, even though many people here and in the EU tried to warn them.

The EU have given us 41 billion euro since we joined and we still receive money from them and yes it's "free". Some member states put in more than they get out. There's no mystery about it.

Cróga

meglome wrote: »

We're in this mess because our government ****ed up royally, even though many people here and in the EU tried to warn them.

The EU have given us 41 billion euro since we joined and we still receive money from them and yes it's "free". Some member states put in more than they get out. There's no mystery about it.

Well we wouldnt be in this mess if we had sound money, if our government never forfeited their right to the private EU central bank to print interest free money.

How can member states put in money when they dont have money in the first place? They dont print the money, the ECB does and loans it out at interest. Or you claim they get it for free, but its not free, it cant be, it was printed out of nothing with no value behind it - just a piece of paper - its debt. And we exchanged this for our resources. I think we were robbed tbh. My point is how long can you depend on the EU printing out money for us? The more money in circulation the less value it has; this is inflation. The bubble is going to burst sometime, we've only seen the beginnings of it.

meglome

Croga wrote: »

Well we wouldnt be in this mess if we had sound money, if our government never forfeited their right to the private EU central bank to print interest free money.

How can member states put in money when they dont have money in the first place? They dont print the money, the ECB does and loans it out at interest. Or you claim they get it for free, but its not free, it cant be, it was printed out of nothing with no value behind it - just a piece of paper - its debt. And we exchanged this for our resources. I think we were robbed tbh. My point is how long can you depend on the EU printing out money for us? The more money in circulation the less value it has; this is inflation. The bubble is going to burst sometime, we've only seen the beginnings of it.

Okay it's very clear you don't have any real idea how this works so I'll leave it at that. I'd suggest you'll get a better reception over in the CT forum.

mickoneill30

Croga wrote: »

How does a piece of paper create jobs? I thought people do that

Really? Is that a serious question? You don't think international agreements and contracts create jobs?

ei.sdraob

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Really? Is that a serious question? You don't think international agreements and contracts create jobs?

or paper money being handed over for a builder to compelte a house creates "jobs"


lol no grasp of how an economy works

puffdragon

I read somewhere that the production of Biofuels creates more greenhouse gases than pumping oil or gas, I suppose we may have to accept that nuclear is the only way, not sure about that statement but it might spark some interest and yes I'll take it to another forum and wont mention it here again.

Tridion

puffdragon wrote: »

I read somewhere that the production of Biofuels creates more greenhouse gases than pumping oil or gas, I suppose we may have to accept that nuclear is the only way, not sure about that statement but it might spark some interest and yes I'll take it to another forum and wont mention it here again.

What nonsense. The Lisbon Treaty's promotion of the green economy and resulting green jobs is not centred on biofuels and so your argument is fundamentally flawed.

The Lisbon Treaty promotes the use of new and renewable energies, the interconnection of energy networks (vital for renewables and exporting energy) and also energy efficiency and saving. It is in these and related areas that 'green-collar' jobs will be created. Battery technology, construction workers retrained to retrofit houses to a higher standard of insulation and putting in wood-fueled boilers, wind turbine engineers and all the related and support services that go with it.

It's quite clear you have no idea how the green economy works.

ei.sdraob

puffdragon wrote: »

I read somewhere that the production of Biofuels creates more greenhouse gases than pumping oil or gas, I suppose we may have to accept that nuclear is the only way, not sure about that statement but it might spark some interest and yes I'll take it to another forum and wont mention it here again.

@puffdragon

green doesnt only include biofuels (they are a joke anyways)

there is wind and solar (see link i posted earlier to national geographic feature on Germany being a leader in green energy and how that creates job and a mini boom)

as for nuclear, im pro nuclear but lets be realistic it wont happen in ireland without a referendum and i can already imagine Coir posters

see the discussion here on nuclear

Tarobot

ei.sdraob wrote: »

green doesnt only include biofuels (they are a joke anyways)

Not all biofuels are a joke. Wood pellets are very efficient.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as for nuclear, im pro nuclear but lets be realistic it wont happen in ireland without a referendum and i can already imagine Coir posters

Lisbon clearly states that each country is allowed to decide its own energy mix (subject to renewable energy targets. Ours was set at 16% by 2020 and Eamon Ryan has bumped it up to 40% by 2020 - nothing to do with the EU) and therefore nuclear cannot be forced on us by Lisbon.

ei.sdraob

Tarobot wrote: »

Not all biofuels are a joke. Wood pellets are very efficient.

i dont know enough about them so cant comment, i presume there are large subsidies? anyways no need to answer were drifting offtopic here

Tarobot wrote: »

Lisbon clearly states that each country is allowed to decide its own energy mix (subject to renewable energy targets. Ours was set at 16% by 2020 and Eamon Ryan has bumped it up to 40% by 2020 - nothing to do with the EU) and therefore nuclear cannot be forced on us by Lisbon.

oh I know Lisbon cant force nuclear on us, i just wanted to link to the appropriate thread on the discussion

actually i am for any sort of power that doesn't involve burning stuff provided its more or less reliable

irishbanger

Hey I'm Irish, do we have another vote next year or what to change our minds . personally i don't mind if we go back to the stone age, i'm pissed at the moment and i don't care what europe thinks, **** them, let everybody in europe have a vote then I might agreed until then **** THEM ALL

mandysmithers

puffdragon wrote: »

If there is a No vote, the EU will not cease to function; it has managed to function without the Lisbon Treaty these last 13months.But a fresh round of soul-searching about the EU’s legitimacy would be likely - to be followed, as usual, by a fresh round of institutional tinkering.

Whatever blame is going around for that will come our way.

That just sounds like bullying though!

I'm not sure whether I'm going to vote yes or no, despite having read up on the treaty. Each side is just saying that the other side is lying, and both sides are contradicting each other. It's difficult to know who to believe.

However, what galls me is that we were told that the treaty had to be ratified by all member states, and only then would it be passed. If it had originally been the case that only a majority of states was needed, then I'd be happy with it being passed, as that's democracy. It was never said that the Lisbon treaty had to be ratified by all states......unless, one actually turned it down. So when Ireland voted no, and it wasn't respected, that pisses me off.

Correct me if I'm wrong here!