Everything HPAT and medicine for 2010 (R1 points post #1247)

davidor

HQvhs wrote: »

Well I, and almost everyone I know currently doing medicine, did one and we got on just fine.

Anyway, I'm wary of these new users coming on with low post counts encouraging young people to spend ridiculous sums of money of HPAT prep courses.

Everyone's got to start somewhere! I'm not trying to sell anything!

IHeartChemistry

mohas004 wrote: »

I completely agree with you... those people who arrange these "prep courses" is a bunch of lairs with only one objective - run a profitable business...

Just out of curiosity.. which prep course are you talking about?

Julie Kilmartins. I'm in Limerick and Tutorial and Julies are running them. TBH, they'll teach you nothing, its just practise questions and other crap. I thought it might do me some good, but i've got another two classes left in it and I'm dreading them. I think they are useless

davidor

whadabouchasir wrote: »

There's a lad in my class who got 217 in the Hpat so they could have scraped in to NUIG with 495 however I thnk that this was the highest Hpat score in the country so he would have been the only one in the country that could have gotten in with less than 500 points.

I know a guy who got 230

davidor

IHeartChemistry wrote: »

Julie Kilmartins. I'm in Limerick and Tutorial and Julies are running them. TBH, they'll teach you nothing, its just practise questions and other crap. I thought it might do me some good, but i've got another two classes left in it and I'm dreading them. I think they are useless

I went to the Institute of Education in Dublin. They give you loads of just little tips of solving types of questions in more clever and quick ways. You get loads of practice questions and full exams. And next week we do a full hpat and get our results. I definately know what areas I'm weak at and need to practice on now. I'm sure there are courses out there which are not good but this is not one. The guy doing it is doing medicine, he did a umat in Australia a few years ago and got 206, and got into medicine in Ireland on that this year I think. I definately feel like I have an edge on the competition so at the very least it has done my confidence some good.

davidor

davidor wrote: »

I went to the Institute of Education in Dublin. They give you loads of just little tips of solving types of questions in more clever and quick ways. You get loads of practice questions and full exams. And next week we do a full hpat and get our results. I definately know what areas I'm weak at and need to practice on now. I'm sure there are courses out there which are not good but this is not one. The guy doing it is doing medicine, he did a umat in Australia a few years ago and got 206, and got into medicine in Ireland on that this year I think. I definately feel like I have an edge on the competition so at the very least it has done my confidence some good.

I did a practice test on my own in my room last week and scored it myself. I now know which areas I'm weak on and need to practice in, and it didn't cost me €400.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I just don't see how these courses can improve your score in any meaningful way, as they're aptitude tests which are designed to be grind-proof. The most you can really do is get a feel for what type of questions are asked, and get your timing right. Anyone could do that with a few practice tests.

HQvhs

Deleted User wrote: »

I did a practice test on my own in my room last week and scored it myself. I now know which areas I'm weak on and need to practice in, and it didn't cost me €400.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I just don't see how these courses can improve your score in any meaningful way, as they're aptitude tests which are designed to be grind-proof. The most you can really do is get a feel for what type of questions are asked, and get your timing right. Anyone could do that with a few practice tests.

Agreed. Also, the ACER scoring method is secret - they weight each question differently. So there is no way you could no your score. When I did the practice test (by myself!) it bore no relation - in any section - to the actual score I got later on.

Tbh, this guy sounds more like an ad for the IoE HPAT course. I've met very few people who thought prep courses were any good, and those that did weren't particularly gung ho about them.

briankirby

davidor wrote: »

I went to the Institute of Education in Dublin. They give you loads of just little tips of solving types of questions in more clever and quick ways. You get loads of practice questions and full exams. And next week we do a full hpat and get our results. I definately know what areas I'm weak at and need to practice on now. I'm sure there are courses out there which are not good but this is not one. The guy doing it is doing medicine, he did a umat in Australia a few years ago and got 206, and got into medicine in Ireland on that this year I think. I definately feel like I have an edge on the competition so at the very least it has done my confidence some good.

You are obviously trying to sell the course.A lot of families are strugglin to pay the bills at the moment ,so conning them out of 400 euro is downright disgraceful.:mad:

mohas004

briankirby wrote: »

You are obviously trying to sell the course.A lot of families are strugglin to pay the bills at the moment ,so conning them out of 400 euro is downright disgraceful.:mad:

That´s damn correcto...

HQvhs

HQvhs wrote: »

Agreed. Also, the ACER scoring method is secret - they weight each question differently. So there is no way you could no your score. When I did the practice test (by myself!) it bore no relation - in any section - to the actual score I got later on.

Tbh, this guy sounds more like an ad for the IoE HPAT course. I've met very few people who thought prep courses were any good, and those that did weren't particularly gung ho about them.

Yeah, I know that I wouldn't have an accurate score because the marking schemes are secret and differ from test to test. Aren't they decided after all the papers have been marked, and more points are awarded to the questions fewer people got right?

I simply meant I know which sections I did better in in terms of # questions I got right.

HQvhs

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, I know that I wouldn't have an accurate score because the marking schemes are secret and differ from test to test. Aren't they decided after all the papers have been marked, and more points are awarded to the questions fewer people got right?

I simply meant I know which sections I did better in in terms of # questions I got right.

Yeah, that's about right I think. Though, of course, no one knows exactly what they do with the scores!

Yep, roughly. Though, my actual results were completely different from the practice test! The section I did best on in the real thing, I did worst on in the practice one. And the one I did worst on in the real Hpat, I did best in on the practice.

Not saying that's the case for everyone, just beware of a false sense of confidence. Be prepared for a tough couple of hours!

HQvhs

HQvhs wrote: »

Yeah, that's about right I think. Though, of course, no one knows exactly what they do with the scores!

Yep, roughly. Though, my actual results were completely different from the practice test! The section I did best on in the real thing, I did worst on in the practice one. And the one I did worst on in the real Hpat, I did best in on the practice.

Not saying that's the case for everyone, just beware of a false sense of confidence. Be prepared for a tough couple of hours!

Yeah, which again makes prep courses futile, because the practice tests are still the same as ones you'd do yourself and the real HPAT could be completely different in terms of best sections and scores.

davidor

HQvhs wrote: »

Agreed. Also, the ACER scoring method is secret - they weight each question differently. So there is no way you could no your score. When I did the practice test (by myself!) it bore no relation - in any section - to the actual score I got later on.

Tbh, this guy sounds more like an ad for the IoE HPAT course. I've met very few people who thought prep courses were any good, and those that did weren't particularly gung ho about them.

Faie enough guys I see your point but I would like to hear from someone else who went to the institute and see what they say because everyone I know thought it was really good. Obviously it is an aptitude test but I think that you can enhance your score, only to a certain point but at least this way if I don't get medicine I'll know there was nothing else I could have possibly done. I'll let ya know how i get on!

bythewoods

I didn't do the IoE course, but I had a look at the slides (A guy in ym year last year did it.)
They were pretty damn awful...
"Wear a watch, eat a good breakfast, get a good night's sleep beforehand" etc etc. Not worth the money if you ask me. I got into medicine and he didn't, if that's any indication at all.

If you really want to splash out buy UMAT sample papers. They're basically the very same as the HPAT ones. I got photocopies of them off someone last year, found them very helpful indeedy.
They're being revised at the moment apparently, but keep an eye on the site...
http://umatweb.acer.edu.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=3

Here's an information sheet that may help too: http://umatweb.acer.edu.au/documents/UMAT_Info_Book_pp11-13.pdf

bythewoods

bythewoods wrote: »

I didn't do the IoE course, but I had a look at the slides (A guy in ym year last year did it.)
They were pretty damn awful...
"Wear a watch, eat a good breakfast, get a good night's sleep beforehand" etc etc. Not worth the money if you ask me. I got into medicine and he didn't, if that's any indication at all.

Seems we've seen the same slides! Yeah they really aren't worth the money from what I've seen, and it certainly isn't worth the money just to gain a false sense of security.

IHeartChemistry

Any of ye looked at Med Ed or something like that? Apparently it's like 10,000 HPAT practise questions for €150 or €200...:rolleyes: The guy doing my HPAT prep course got them all and honest to god some of the stuff in them...it's crazy!

It's an aptitude test. Your either meant to be a doctor or your not! I really wish I hadn't wasted my money on it...But please do learn from my mistakes

jumpguy

I just did the practice test there. I got 57% of the answers, so 171/300 (sadly, there's no marking scheme so it could be more...could be less. Or is there a marking scheme?). Learned a few lessons though, the the main exam I think I'd start with section 2 and 3, cause I found them easiest, section 1 slowed me down too much and hence I couldn't finish section 3, which I found easier than section 1.

Does the HPAT practice test generally give a rough idea of the actual HPAT score? How much does the result differ by, roughly (give or take 20, 30?)

Is there a HPAT practice test marking scheme availiable online?

HQvhs

jumpguy wrote: »

I just did the practice test there. I got 57% of the answers, so 171/300 (sadly, there's no marking scheme so it could be more...could be less. Or is there a marking scheme?).

There is a marking scheme but ACER won't release it. Though it isn't like a LC marking scheme. Basically they weight the answers depending on how many people got a particular question right. Therefore, a question that few people got the right answer to would be worth more than one that people didn't and vice versa.

Learned a few lessons though, the the main exam I think I'd start with section 2 and 3, cause I found them easiest, section 1 slowed me down too much and hence I couldn't finish section 3, which I found easier than section 1.

I had this great plan myself! Unfortunately you *have* to do the sections in the order they tell you (i.e. Section 1 first and so on). And, you're not allowed carry over time.

Does the HPAT practice test generally give a rough idea of the actual HPAT score? How much does the result differ by, roughly (give or take 20, 30?)

can only speak for myself, but my result was completely different! This is due to the response to your first query above. To be honest, the practice test is really just to give you an indication of timing and the format, it's not really helpful for finding out what your actual result will be.

Is there a HPAT practice test marking scheme availiable online?

Not that I'm aware of anyway, sorry. I highly doubt it though.

LizT

jumpguy wrote: »

I just did the practice test there. I got 57% of the answers, so 171/300 (sadly, there's no marking scheme so it could be more...could be less. Or is there a marking scheme?). Learned a few lessons though, the the main exam I think I'd start with section 2 and 3, cause I found them easiest, section 1 slowed me down too much and hence I couldn't finish section 3, which I found easier than section 1.

Does the HPAT practice test generally give a rough idea of the actual HPAT score? How much does the result differ by, roughly (give or take 20, 30?)

Is there a HPAT practice test marking scheme availiable online?

You can't choose what sections to start with. You have to do section one for a certain amount of time and then leave it and move on to section 2.

jumpguy

HQvhs wrote: »

There is a marking scheme but ACER won't release it. Though it isn't like a LC marking scheme. Basically they weight the answers depending on how many people got a particular question right. Therefore, a question that few people got the right answer to would be worth more than one that people didn't and vice versa.


I had this great plan myself! Unfortunately you *have* to do the sections in the order they tell you (i.e. Section 1 first and so on). And, you're not allowed carry over time.

can only speak for myself, but my result was completely different! This is due to the response to your first query above. To be honest, the practice test is really just to give you an indication of timing and the format, it's not really helpful for finding out what your actual result will be.
Not that I'm aware of anyway, sorry. I highly doubt it though.

Thanks alot for all your answers. I guess it's okay that you can't carry over time. I spent too much time on section one and that's what caught me trying to finish section 3. It'd also keep you on your toes and stop complacency in the middle of exams of large lenght (in the middle of a two and half hour exam it's easy to get tired and start daydreaming for two minutes in the middle of it...well, for me it is anyway). It's a shame ACER won't release the marking scheme for their Practice Test. After all, people who paid nearly 30 Euro (although I got it for free) for it deserve a proper mock.

I think that was last year's Practice Test. Is this year's different?

bythewoods

I came across this article when looking for something else entirely, but I figure it wouldn't do any harm to post it here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2009/1124/1224259332731.html

briankirby

Come to think of it,there are tons of hpat prep courses!Only realised it now.Unfortunately it cant be prepared for,boo hoo:(

IHeartChemistry

Meh, I found practising the picture puzzles is helping me worth them out better, and I've learnt to honest to god take my time and read things properly. But with Section 2 your either a people person or your not, so trying to improve there is just seriously pointless.

Purple Hayes

Ya I'm a LC student prepin for the HPAT too.... kinda intimidated by the whole thing and enrolled inthe Institute prep course..... i understand why some would see it a waste of money and time... It being an APTITUDE test and all but i figure the more prep you have, practising timing and knowing how to approach the questions the better. It may be a money waster for some people but personally i think it'll help me in one way or another. Good luck to all who are doing the HPAT though!

dobh

my daughter did the hpat last year. She did the course where you do 4 practise papers, against the clock, and they are marked. In each of the papers she got good high marks ( approx 230 / 300 ) . In the real test the highest mark awarded was approx 230 I think. My daughter did not reach 170 which was way lower than she expected if comparing with the practise tests done beforehand.

When she did the actual hpat she said the paper was considerably more difficult than the practise ones. She was exhausted after the test and felt that she had not done well due to the difficulty of the paper.

In any event she is now studying medicine. Her hpat results were slightly above average and her l/cert points were high. In my opinion the most important thing is to be beyond the top of the bell curve which gives you a huge advantage over the majority who are in and around the top of the curve.

notwithstanding all of the above I asked her if she felt the practise tests had been of any use to her. She said they were definitely a help as you went into the exam having a reasonable idea of what was facing you and in getting 110 questions answered against the clock. People she knew who did not do the practise tests or courses were , generally, at a disadvantage. It is like doing the mocks - every bit of preparation must be a help.

Having seen how worried she was before the hpat and how tired she was afterwards, despite having prepared as well as she could have done I cannot imagine what she would have been like if she had not concentrated on them until after the mocks, or not prepared for them at all. With the l/c marks capping at 550 and every 5 pts converting to 1 after that it is obvious that every single mark in the hpat is more valuable.

I apologise for the long post but it would be a shame for any student to be disappointed because the preparation had not been done. The hpat is not rocket science but neither is it a walk in the park.

Good luck .

dobh

dobh wrote: »

my daughter did the hpat last year. She did the course where you do 4 practise papers, against the clock, and they are marked. In each of the papers she got good high marks ( approx 230 / 300 ) . In the real test the highest mark awarded was approx 230 I think. My daughter did not reach 170 which was way lower than she expected if comparing with the practise tests done beforehand.

When she did the actual hpat she said the paper was considerably more difficult than the practise ones. She was exhausted after the test and felt that she had not done well due to the difficulty of the paper.

In any event she is now studying medicine. Her hpat results were slightly above average and her l/cert points were high. In my opinion the most important thing is to be beyond the top of the bell curve which gives you a huge advantage over the majority who are in and around the top of the curve.

notwithstanding all of the above I asked her if she felt the practise tests had been of any use to her. She said they were definitely a help as you went into the exam having a reasonable idea of what was facing you and in getting 110 questions answered against the clock. People she knew who did not do the practise tests or courses were , generally, at a disadvantage. It is like doing the mocks - every bit of preparation must be a help.

Having seen how worried she was before the hpat and how tired she was afterwards, despite having prepared as well as she could have done I cannot imagine what she would have been like if she had not concentrated on them until after the mocks, or not prepared for them at all. With the l/c marks capping at 550 and every 5 pts converting to 1 after that it is obvious that every single mark in the hpat is more valuable.

I apologise for the long post but it would be a shame for any student to be disappointed because the preparation had not been done. The hpat is not rocket science but neither is it a walk in the park.

Good luck .

But as you just stated the practice tests she did were not as difficult as the actual HPAT, therefore it's no more realistic or helpful than just getting a book of practice tests and working with those at home.

dobh

I appreciate that but doing them at home is not quite the same as sitting in a room full of your peers, working against the clock with the conditions replicated - . Anyway , as I was not the person who did the practice tests or the actual hpat exam I can only defer to what my daughter said which was that she was glad she had done them as, in her opinion, going in without having done preparation would have been very difficult.

Personally I think that schools should get involved in this preparation to help their students. This could cut out the exhorbitant fees being charged by companies running these courses. The only downside to that is the papers may not be marked in the correct manner as there seems to be a specific method to allocating marks.

dobh

dobh wrote: »

I appreciate that but doing them at home is not quite the same as sitting in a room full of your peers, working against the clock with the conditions replicated - . Anyway , as I was not the person who did the practice tests or the actual hpat exam I can only defer to what my daughter said which was that she was glad she had done them as, in her opinion, going in without having done preparation would have been very difficult.

Personally I think that schools should get involved in this preparation to help their students. This could cut out the exhorbitant fees being charged by companies running these courses. The only downside to that is the papers may not be marked in the correct manner as there seems to be a specific method to allocating marks.

I suppose a lot of schools wouldn't have enough students interested to make it worthwhile. Also, the marking schemes are secret, so I'd say it'd be difficult to mark.

HQvhs

dobh wrote: »

Personally I think that schools should get involved in this preparation to help their students. This could cut out the exhorbitant fees being charged by companies running these courses. The only downside to that is the papers may not be marked in the correct manner as there seems to be a specific method to allocating marks.

Just in relation to this point. The method with which ACER mark the HPAT is proprietry and impossible to replicate by a third party. The "preparation" courses do it one mark per correct question but that is not the way ACER do it. Therefore, whatever mark you get in a practice test will bear no relation to the real mark in the real HPAT. This was the case for me, everyone else I know and, ostensibly, your daughter.

I for one believe it is stupid to fork out ridiculous amounts of money on preparation courses that will not improve your HPAT score. You can figure out the basics such as format and timing yourself at home with the practice booklet.

lctake2

i got basically the same scores in the practice tests as i did in the real thing, most important thing is to do the official tests. as long as u have a basic understanding of the format of the test i dont think the courses are worth it

mohas004

One question to previous HPAT test takers: On the test day, did you receive three different booklets representing Test Section 1, Test Section 3, etc. or did you receive only one test booklet containing all three sections? meaning, was the layout exactly the same as the practice test or was it different??

thanks..