Dublin Bike Scheme

DocDaneka · 13-09-2009 5:24pm #1

Hours after launch I have already seen several tracksuited types whizzing around on likely stolen bikes(the wire at the front was cut). How long do people think the scheme will last in Dublin ?

smithy1981 · 13-09-2009 5:27pm

They robbed the bikes because they wear tracksuits??

karlog · 13-09-2009 5:28pm

smithy1981 wrote: »

They robbed the bikes because they wear tracksuits??

I think he means your more likely to have your bike robbed by someone wearing a tracksuit.

Which is true.

Jim · 13-09-2009 5:28pm

This is an obvious outcome of the scheme tbh. Things like this can work in other countries, but not here it seems without peope nicking anything that isn't nailed down and setting fire to the rest.

The only way it can work is if its given some persistancy. The initally wave of robbery and vandilism will quiten down once the novelty value has worn off.

13-09-2009 5:29pm

It was a stupid idea in the first place. It's essentially a lawless country. The bikes will be battered to shite and thrown in a river before anyone genuinely interested in the scheme gets to use them.

BendiBus · 13-09-2009 5:33pm

DocDaneka wrote: »

Hours after launch I have already seen several tracksuited types whizzing around on likely stolen bikes(the wire at the front was cut). How long do people think the scheme will last in Dublin ?

How were they stolen? There's a pretty solid bit of metal attaches them to their stands. Or were honest customers bike-jacked? Or are you jumping to the usual negative moaning "it'll never work" bull**** conclusion?

Deleted User wrote: »

It was a stupid idea in the first place. It's essentially a lawless country.

No to both. If you think this is a lawless country then you haven't been too far! Just as well not everyone thinks like this or nothing would ever be tried.

DocDaneka · 13-09-2009 5:40pm

I dont know how they work exactly but each bike had a bit of wire in the front basket that was frayed and cut. I assume these were built in bike locks that have been chopped with wirecutters ?

13-09-2009 5:45pm

BendiBus wrote: »

How were they stolen? There's a pretty solid bit of metal attaches them to their stands. Or were honest customers bike-jacked? Or are you jumping to the usual negative moaning "it'll never work" bull**** conclusion?

No to both. If you think this is a lawless country then you haven't been too far! Just as well not everyone thinks like this or nothing would ever be tried.

The only way this scheme will ever get off the ground is if, when a bike gets stolen, a serious look for the person who did it ensues, and a massively hefty fine were given to them (if they're unemployed, their welfare is cut until the equivalent of the fine is retrieved), and there were full-time security guarding the stands around the city.

Otherwise it'll just become too expensive to keep on replacing bikes, and there'll be loads of battered bikes around the city that no one would dare pay any money to use.

It's a scheme that is apparently not suited to Dublin.

oceanclub · 13-09-2009 5:46pm

DocDaneka wrote: »

I dont know how they work exactly but each bike had a bit of wire in the front basket that was frayed and cut. I assume these were built in bike locks that have been chopped with wirecutters ?

Um, but that bike lock has nothing to do with how the bike is attached at the station itself. So if they did rob it, they must have done so while someone parked it normally using that lock - which, seeing how thin it is, was a bit dumb to be honest.

Tried them out today, great fun - hope the scheme goes well.

P.

DublinWriter · 13-09-2009 5:52pm

I saw this scheme in action in Brussels last month and it's been really successful.

However, we Irish, sorry, we Dubliners aren't the most civic-minded of folk and I can see the whole thing ending up in the Liffey...literally.

I don't see 'scumbags' being the demographic that will derail this, more than likely it will be joe-public after a skinful deciding that it's a better idea to try and cycle one of these home/through a shop window/in front of a car at 2am whilst jarred.

Nolanger · 13-09-2009 6:29pm

The most idiotic idea because Dublin is not a flat city. Every street is a hill and someone will get a heart attack cycling around.

CoachBoone · 13-09-2009 6:52pm

Nolanger wrote: »

The most idiotic idea because Dublin is not a flat city. Every street is a hill and someone will get a heart attack cycling around.

Ah come on.

Its prob more likely that the bike scheme will lessen the liklihood of a heart attack for many people.

Sparks · 13-09-2009 7:34pm

Jim wrote: »

This is an obvious outcome of the scheme tbh. Things like this can work in other countries, but not here it seems without peope nicking anything that isn't nailed down and setting fire to the rest.
The only way it can work is if its given some persistancy. The initally wave of robbery and vandilism will quiten down once the novelty value has worn off.

Really? Because that's not what's happened in Paris. 16,000 bikes vandalised since they set up the system. 8,000 stolen. Bikes hung from lamp posts, set on fire, chucked in the Seine by the gross. They're repairing 400 bikes a day over there and recovering 20-odd per day. The city has had to kick money into the company to pay for the damages.

BTW, I love how you can't pay for access to the system with a laser card.

And what happens if you cycle across the city, arrive at your destination and find there's no slot at the station you cycle into? Cycle to another station and walk to your destination? Carry a bike lock with you and take the hit from the charges for having the bike longer than the half-hour, while leaving a public bike locked up and unusable while you run whatever errand you had to or do a days work?

Táck · 13-09-2009 7:38pm

karlog wrote: »

I think he means your more likely to have your bike robbed by someone wearing a tracksuit.

Which is true.

your more likely to have your money robbed by someone wearing a suit.

have they not used the bank card system? the bike is not released until you put your debit/credit card into the machine. no money is taken if the bike is returned and you put your card in again when you leave back the bike. that way they can tell who has the bike and who hasnt returned them.

HereKitty · 13-09-2009 7:50pm

People....C'mon

Lets have a bit of optimism..The bikes are a great idea (although Dublin traffic is fairly scary)!! Just because of some eejits who want to wreck things it shouldnt stop us from trying new ideas that might actually make the city a bit more pleasant and make its citizens get off their backsides and get some exercise:D. Now.....on yizzer bikes!!

eirebhoy · 13-09-2009 7:55pm

There was 4 of these bikes left unlocked outside the Brazen head pub as I was driving by earlier. About a half hour later I was driving by again and 4 tourists in their 40's and 50's were collecting them. Surprised they weren't stroked.

karlog · 13-09-2009 7:56pm

Can someone explain to me how this system works? How much do you have to pay to get the bike in the first place?

mikemac · 13-09-2009 7:57pm

Can the bikes swim?
As they'll be at the bottom of the canal before the week is over

mikemac · 13-09-2009 7:59pm

karlog wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how this system works? How much do you have to pay to get the bike in the first place?

http://www.dublinbikes.ie/how_does_it_work/frequently_asked_questions/subscriptions

What is the difference between the subscription charge and the service charge?
When you take out a Long Term Hire Card (€10), or 3 Day Ticket (€2), the first half-hour of every journey is free. After the first half hour, a service charge applies. See below for pricing structure :

SUBSCRIPTION FEES
Long term card €10
3 day ticket €2

A guarantee of €150 is required

BIKE HIRE FEES
First ½ Hour : free
1 hour : €0.50
2 hours : €1.50
3 hours : €3.50
4 hours : €6.50
Every extra ½ Hour : €2

How will my account be debited?
Subscription for the 3 Day Ticket costs €2, which is debited from your account at the end of the subscription period. The Long Term Hire Card costs €10 and is taken from your credit card, or your bank account by direct debit. Please note that VISA Electron and Laser Maestro debit cards are not accepted.

On subscription, you also authorise the provider to request a €150 guarantee from your account. This amount will not be debited unless the bike is not returned after a period of 24 hours.

Davy · 13-09-2009 8:00pm

mikemac wrote: »

Can the bikes swim?
As they'll be at the bottom of the canal before the week is over

A part that self inflates would be a good idea, make it easier to recover them. A gps tracker on them would make sense too, but prob make users paranoid about being followed :pac:

bluefinger · 13-09-2009 8:05pm

It's this type of thoughtless cynicism that really bugs me about about boards.

Scumbags in tracksuits riding/robbing bikes?
This was bound to happen?
A scheme not suited to Dublin?

What crap. The scheme is not even a day old and people here are writing it off. Not only that, its being used by intolerant **** to vent their prejudiced spleens. If it was left to people like this nobody would ever try anything.

Here's a novel idea, next time you see a scumbag in a tracksuit on rent a bike why not take it off them?

Thought not.

Sparks · 13-09-2009 8:09pm

Táck wrote: »

your more likely to have your money robbed by someone wearing a suit.

+1 to that.

have they not used the bank card system? the bike is not released until you put your debit/credit card into the machine. no money is taken if the bike is returned and you put your card in again when you leave back the bike. that way they can tell who has the bike and who hasnt returned them.

No debit card though. Long term cards can be paid for by credit card or direct debit to your bank account, 3-day tickets can only be bought with credit cards. (Oh, and visa electron debit cards are out too, as is cash).

Basicly, if you rented the bike on your laser card and nicked it, there's no guarantee you wouldn't pull all the money from your bank account as well, so the company has no way to be sure they can fine you the €150 if the bike's 24 hours overdue.

And I love how they've hidden away the terms and conditions. Searching for them won't find them, you have to go to sign up and then there's a non-obvious link to a pdf file with them tucked away in there. Which is rather sneaky considering whats in article 10:

ARTICLE 10 - PENALTIES
10.1 At the start of each period of validity the customer authorises the provider to request the debit of a maximum flat rate amount of €150 to be used in the following cases and under the conditions set out here: damage, fraudulent use and/or disappearance of the bike for which the customer is liable.
10.2 The corresponding penalties (see Article 10.3) are payable on the provider's first request, if it is found that the customer has failed to abide by their obligations under the terms of these GCAU.
10.3 The nature and/or amount of the penalties payable to the provider by the customer in the event of a contractual failing on the part of the customer, are as follows:
(1) disappearance of the bike in contravention of Article 7.4: €150;
(2) repair of damage to the bike attributable to the customer: flat rate penalty according to the degree of damage; to a maximum of €150
(3) loss or damage to the anti-theft lock and/or the associated key: €20

So you can get done not just for stealing the bike but also damaging it. So, you know, don't cycle into the luas tracks and fall off, damaging the bike...

And, if the bike is stolen from you, you might still be liable for the €150 fine, even if you report it to the gardai. If the built-in lock was broken and you didn't inspect it before setting off, you're liable. If you forgot to lock it, you're liable, and so forth.

Sparks · 13-09-2009 8:21pm

bluefinger wrote: »

It's this type of thoughtless cynicism that really bugs me about about boards.

It's not thoughtless cynicism, it's thoughtful resentfulness of being ripped off.

In case you missed it, JC Decaux are not doing this from altruism, they're doing it for profit; and for those who forgot the stories at the time, we're paying them well over the odds with advertising space for this woefully under-spec'd project. 450 bikes in a city with a half-million people and almost that many again travelling in to work there? And what do they get in return?

From the Times last month:

The pay-off? Over 70 new advertising sites across the city, and all the revenue from them for the next 15 years. JC Decaux wanted more, over 100 sites in fact, but An Taisce and others objected to some of the more intrusive positions for its metropanels – big free-standing signs on pavements that can blot out signs and traffic lights. Their profits won’t be quite as grotesque as originally planned but it’s still a very good deal for them. In other cities they have to pay a fee for each bike per year, which adds up to many millions for the city coffers, but not here.

Dublin City Council must have been feeling flush back in 2006, when this was all arranged in a deal it says is too commercially sensitive to reveal in full. City manager John Tierney reckons it’s an excellent deal with the council getting back millions in free advertising space for public information messages, signposting and the like.

It’s put the value of this at about €20 million over the lifetime of the deal, and estimates the value of the free bike scheme at nearly €27 million. These are projected and notional figures that sound extremely good, but the bottom line is that JC Decaux will be getting actual cash money for its ad sites, while all we get is a spin in the city . . .

(BTW, 70 billboards for 450 bikes is twice what Paris 'paid' at 1628 billboards for 20,600 bikes).

R.D. aka MR.D · 13-09-2009 8:24pm

Sparks wrote: »

Really? Because that's not what's happened in Paris. 16,000 bikes vandalised since they set up the system. 8,000 stolen. Bikes hung from lamp posts, set on fire, chucked in the Seine by the gross. They're repairing 400 bikes a day over there and recovering 20-odd per day. The city has had to kick money into the company to pay for the damages.

I actually posted a link to a bbc story about this in one of the other threads about this a couple of months ago. It definitly shows that we're not alone with our scumbag problem!
Although it makes me wonder why they went ahead with this with the experiences in Paris because it was guarnteed to happen here.

bluefinger · 13-09-2009 8:32pm

DocDaneka wrote: »

I assume these were built in bike locks that have been chopped with wirecutters ?

Looks pretty thoughtless to me.

And i was just as pissed off about the free public space being given to decaux at the time, but it's a done deal. I made the point to my local consellor at the time who lost his seat at the last elections. the point i was making about the free bike scheme is that it's a day old and most of the comments here are pure negativity. No one came on to boards (apart from 1 post) to make the point that plenty of the bikes were being used as they were intended.

danjo-xx · 13-09-2009 8:32pm

They won't last pissin time, believe me:(

wackerooooohh · 13-09-2009 8:36pm

I just cannot believe what i am reading in this thread. My wife and i had a ball on dublinbikes today, it works and it can continue to work if we dont have to listen to most of the crap written here. the terms and conditions are hidden away? they are on the website for you to read for the last month or more. debit cards are not used because they would have to take the money straight from your account, that would mean 300 notes coming from our account and not getting returned immediately, with a credit card nothing is taken, it is a guarantee. I know because i rang up and asked...why do gob****es just come on here and moan, check out the detail, this is a brilliant idea and lots of fun, why not get away from your computers from an hour and try it out, you might find the world is different to your cyberspace hermit existence, jesus christ i am just so pissed off after reading this crap, you are the ****heads, not the people in the tracksuits that you generalise so negatively about...arseholes!

Yellowblackbird · 13-09-2009 8:38pm

bluefinger wrote: »

Here's a novel idea, next time you see a scumbag in a tracksuit on rent a bike why not take it off them?

Thought not.

Why would anyone want to take a bike off a scumbag in a tracksuit ?
And if they did want to do so, what would be to stop them ?

Are YOU fearful of scumbags in tracksuits ?

Jumpy · 13-09-2009 8:42pm

wackerooooohh wrote: »

I just cannot believe what i am reading in this thread. My wife and i had a ball on dublinbikes today, it works and it can continue to work if we dont have to listen to most of the crap written here. the terms and conditions are hidden away? they are on the website for you to read for the last month or more. debit cards are not used because they would have to take the money straight from your account, that would mean 300 notes coming from our account and not getting returned immediately, with a credit card nothing is taken, it is a guarantee. I know because i rang up and asked...why do gob****es just come on here and moan, check out the detail, this is a brilliant idea and lots of fun, why not get away from your computers from an hour and try it out, you might find the world is different to your cyberspace hermit existence, jesus christ i am just so pissed off after reading this crap, you are the ****heads, not the people in the tracksuits that you generalise so negatively about...arseholes!

As much as I agree with you, you are still posting abuse. So your post just lost all credibility.

bluefinger · 13-09-2009 8:42pm

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Why would anyone want to take a bike off a scumbag in a tracksuit ?
And if they did want to do so, what would be to stop them ?

Are YOU fearful of scumbags in tracksuits ?

Read the thread?

Stark · 13-09-2009 8:45pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

I don't see 'scumbags' being the demographic that will derail this, more than likely it will be joe-public after a skinful deciding that it's a better idea to try and cycle one of these home/through a shop window/in front of a car at 2am whilst jarred.

You're not allowed take out a bike between 12:30 and 5am.

Dublin Bike Scheme

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