A preview into what to expect from SF in the up and coming weeks.

Run_to_da_hills

A preview into what to expect from SF in the up and coming weeks.

Aimed at the farmers and ordinary worker also brings in military spending and voting weights. The graphics are quite presentable and the content leaves any previous Coir poster in the weeds.

OnTheBalls

Pretty much the same lies and nonsense Coir are spouting.

Run_to_da_hills

You can give them credit for leaving out figures for the minimum wage.

ei.sdraob

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

brings in military spending

what a ****ing load of lies

this one is
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs208.snc1/7525_1116578162401_1465393158_30295952_924375_n.jpg



is that the whole of the 700,000 euro in 3 years that was spend on researching bulletproof vest technology for our soldiers serving on peacekeeping missions

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2009-06-23.131.0

700k wouldnt even buy a tank

i wonder how many weapons can SF's "friends" (ahem) can acquire for 700k

:mad:

Scofflaw

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what a ****ing load of lies

this one is
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs208.snc1/7525_1116578162401_1465393158_30295952_924375_n.jpg



is that the whole of the 700,000 euro in 3 years that was spend on researching bulletproof vest technology for our soldiers serving on peacekeeping missions

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2009-06-23.131.0


:mad:

It's also the subject of a very specific guarantee:

Nothing in this Section affects or prejudices the position or policy of any other Member State on security and defence.

It is also a matter for each Member State to decide, in accordance with the provisions of the Treaty of Lisbon and any domestic legal requirements, whether to participate in permanent structured cooperation or the European Defence Agency.

The Treaty of Lisbon does not provide for the creation of a European army or for conscription to any military formation.

It does not affect the right of Ireland or any other Member State to determine the nature and volume of its defence and security expenditure and the nature of its defence capabilities. It will be a matter for Ireland or any other Member State, to decide, in accordance with any domestic legal requirements, whether or not to participate in any military operation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

Lowest Common Denominator posters with no interest in facts.

Dumbed down Lisbon.

How is Martin Ferris?

He'd hate the Europol provisions.

Rb

Though I in no way support SF, I have to give it to them, those posters are a damn sight better than any others I've seen from them (in terms of design).

Grabs your attention also.

ei.sdraob

Rb wrote: »

Grabs your attention also.

yet another lie so

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs257.snc1/10424_130432282913_685717913_2601130_6489273_n.jpg

that makes SF no better than Coir

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs257.snc1/10424_130432287913_685717913_2601131_1850712_n.jpg

what no specific figures

meglome

And let's remember what Sinn Fein has say about the Lisbon treaty on their website.

Introduction

On June 7th the people of the 26 Counties will be asked to vote on the Treaty of Nice - the fifth referendum on the European Union and, if passed, tying the Irish people, our political institutions and our economy closer to an EU superstate.

Sinn Fein believes that this treaty is NOT in Ireland's best interests. It will:

* undermine our sovereignty
* bring us closer into a European Army and NATO and
* relegate us to the second division of a two-tier European Union.

Since the Single European Act in 1987 the clear direction of EU development has been towards the creation of a giant state. More and more democratic control has been taken away from us in relation to both domestic and international affairs. The EU Commission and the EU Council of Ministers have become more powerful. The Nice Treaty increases that power and removes yet more democratic control from the hands of elected representatives in the Dáil. The Treaty of Nice is not about enlargement. It is about further centralising the EU, placing greater power in the hands of the larger states and allowing them to create a two-tier EU.

Séard is brí le flaitheas ná cearta daoine a aithint seachas cumhacht a bhronnadh ar feidhmeannaigh neamhtofa..

We want to see Europe defending our democratic rights, not eroding them.

Sinn Fein stands for democracy, accountability and equality within Europe. Sinn Fein are asking you to Vote NO.

http://www.sinnfein.org/releases/01/nicemanifesto.html

Em hang on, my mistake, this is about the Nice treaty from 2001. For some reason they are saying the exact same things now about Lisbon that didn't happen with Nice 8 years ago. I dunno it seems almost like they make the same unfounded argument each time.


Hopefully people will see through their bull****, just like with Cóir.

marco murphy

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what a ****ing load of lies

this one is
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs208.snc1/7525_1116578162401_1465393158_30295952_924375_n.jpg


is that the whole of the 700,000 euro in 3 years that was spend on researching bulletproof vest technology for our soldiers serving on peacekeeping missions

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2009-06-23.131.0

700k wouldnt even buy a tank

i wonder how many weapons can SF's "friends" (ahem) can acquire for 700k

:mad:

Its fact. Research the treaty article (which is also on the poster).

ei.sdraob wrote: »

yet another lie so

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs257.snc1/10424_130432282913_685717913_2601130_6489273_n.jpg

that makes SF no better than Coir

It isn't a lie...


I've seen you canvassing on this forum about climate change.
You do realise Lisbon has a mere six words on climate change...?

BlitzKrieg

Perestroika wrote: »

Its fact. Research the treaty article (which is also on the poster).

hmm cant see it on the image file provided if its there (i assume its the really small black print under spending) ANy chance you can provide us with the article in question?

It isn't a lie...

guess it isnt if you treat it the same way as the Coir question mark in their 1.84 minimum wage poster.

It just leaves out the double majority system completely which is a requirement in these QMV votes where they have taken these first figures from.


SO we'll need to call it something else. Its misleading and only has a fraction of the facts. A half truth would be too generous, a mistruth could work, or maybe we should be blunt and just call it for what it is. DECEPTION.


On the posters themselves, I'm somewhat disapointed, I thought Sinn Fein might try to play the straightman of the no campaign but alas.

Otherwise they are irrelevent to the discussion of the treaty, but not so to the campaign, guess it'll be interesting.


EDIT: On a side note, I remember some people on here complaining that Coir only represent a *fringe* group of the no campaign and their antics are not a representation of the campaign as a whole...If Sinn Fein, clearly the most popular group in the no campaign is using the same 'deceptions' as Coir, then whats the difference between the fringe and the popular?

Scofflaw

Perestroika wrote: »

Its fact. Research the treaty article (which is also on the poster).

And the guarantees, which, curiously, aren't.

Perestroika wrote: »

I've seen you canvassing on this forum about climate change.
You do realise Lisbon has a mere six words on climate change...?

A mere six words that make it an objective of the EU. Are these seven words in the Constitution unimportant?

BUNREACHT NA h&#201 wrote: »

Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state

cordially,
Scofflaw

P. Breathnach

Scofflaw wrote: »

A mere six words that make it an objective of the EU. Are these seven words in the Constitution unimportant?

Originally Posted by BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state

I can't see how we can be sovereign without also being independent; that brings us back to six, which is a nice number of words in which to make a big statement.

marco murphy

Scofflaw wrote: »

And the guarantees, which, curiously, aren't.



A mere six words that make it an objective of the EU. Are these seven words in the Constitution unimportant?



cordially,
Scofflaw

Where is this guarantee from?

Scofflaw

Perestroika wrote: »

Where is this guarantee from?

The European Council. There's a sticky at the top of the forum with the text. Please don't bother arguing that they're "legally dubious", because that's factually incorrect.

cordially,
Scofflaw

PopeBuckfastXVI

This voting weight lie needs to be put to bed.

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

The 0.8% relates to the population requirement, there's also the nation requirement where we get 3.7% of that vote.

In order to pass QMV Double Majority the following must happen:
* To pass: Majority of countries (55% or 72%) representing 65% of the population or condition to block not met
* To block: At least 4 countries against the proposal or in cases where, under the Treaties, not all members participate the minimum number of members representing more than 35% of the population of the participating Member States, plus one member are against the proposal

So we have 0.8% of the population requirement and 3.7% of the number of countries requirement.

We also only need to find 3 other countries to veto any law, no matter how many for it.

Double Majority QMV absolutely protects the interests of smaller countries, that's the whole point of it.

The people claiming we only have 0.8% are purposefully distorting reality to make it sound worse than it is. Why do this? I would suggest it's because the reality isn't that bad, so they have to distort it, in order to achieve the 'no' vote they crave.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62080903&postcount=4

turgon

I, personally, find the voting weight issue the most downright despicable of the Sinn Fein/Coir campaigns. For the simple reason that to find out about voting weights one has to read about the whole system, and especially read about how Ireland's voting weight is half influenced by the 55% state part, but what they do is intentionally ignore what it didn't suit them to hear.

I recall in the Lisbon I debate on boards one poster wrote a computer program to evaluate the results of every possible voting possibility from the 27 states, and found that Irelands overall voting power stayed the same (in or about 2%). I think thats what it was, anyone any links?

Daftendirekt

Nice to see they've gone with the usual lies and scaremongering.

With Sinn Féin lumping themselves in with the lunatic fringe, any chance the No camp had of a respectable face has died. Unless someone new comes out of the woodwork in the next month, but I won't be holding my breath.