Now you have a resposobility to vote no!

Mario007 · 15-09-2009 2:47pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So who's up for being 'Helga the shepherd girl from Austria' who wants a No Vote?
I'll be Dario from Sicily at the weekend.

As I said already in this thread. I'm Mario from Slovakia and I want yes vote:D

Judgement Day · 15-09-2009 3:48pm

Although I gave up my Irish citizenship after Omagh and now have a British passport - and therefore am, apparently, not entitled to vote in Irish referenda, as I found out by accident after Lisbon .1., - I will be exercising my franchise again to vote NO in this farce. I actually get two polling cards for two different polling stations but have, thus far, refrained from risking jail by voting twice no matter how tempting it may be. Isn't it amazing in this hi-tech world that something as simple as electoral registers and citizenship issues can't be sorted out? I wonder how many other people not entitled to vote in this referendum will?

Scofflaw · 15-09-2009 3:52pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Although I gave up my Irish citizenship after Omagh and now have a British passport - and therefore am, apparently, not entitled to vote in Irish referenda, as I found out by accident after Lisbon .1., - I will be exercising my franchise again to vote NO in this farce. I actually get two polling cards for two different polling stations but have, thus far, refrained from risking jail by voting twice no matter how tempting it may be. Isn't it amazing in this hi-tech world that something as simple as electoral registers and citizenship issues can't be sorted out? I wonder how many other people not entitled to vote in this referendum will?

So you're voting on behalf of what exactly? The sovereignty of a country whose citizenship you've renounced? If you'll pardon my saying so, I think that's pretty disgusting, even without the double vote.

appalled,
Scofflaw

Judgement Day · 15-09-2009 4:00pm

No I am voting NO in a country where I live, and have lived, most of my life and just because of some bureaucratic nonsense that says only Irish citizens should have a vote on a particular issue is not going to disenfranchise me. Why should I not have the vote on this issue?

prinz · 15-09-2009 4:04pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why should I not have the vote on this issue?

Take that up with the British government.

Scofflaw · 15-09-2009 4:05pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

No I am voting NO in a country where I live, and have lived, most of my life and just because of some bureaucratic nonsense that says only Irish citizens should have a vote on a particular issue is not going to disenfranchise me. Why should I not have the vote on this issue?

The right to vote in an Irish referendum goes along with Irish citizenship. You renounced your Irish citizenship. By doing so you renounced your right to vote in Irish referendums.

It's very straightforward, and it's not 'bureaucratic nonsense'. You gave up the rights of Irish citizenship when you gave up Irish citizenship. Now you wish to exercise rights that you don't have, in an issue that has a major impact on the country whose citizenship you gave up.

regards,
Scofflaw

PopeBuckfastXVI · 15-09-2009 4:07pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

No I am voting NO in a country where I live, and have lived, most of my life and just because of some bureaucratic nonsense that says only Irish citizens should have a vote on a particular issue is not going to disenfranchise me. Why should I not have the vote on this issue?

Only Irish citizens can vote in Irish presidential elections and referenda.

You should have researched what your decision to renounce your citizenship actually meant. If you don't want to be a citizen of Ireland then fair enough, you don't get a say on the fundamental rules of Ireland.

It's not bureaucratic nonsense, it's a fundamental part of having an independent state. Go be British and vote in their referenda.

Judgement Day · 15-09-2009 4:26pm

My point is why should I be able to vote in local elections and, I think, National elections and not in referenda which clearly affect me as a resident of the country. As I said - bureaucratic nonsense - unless you can convince me otherwise. Anyway if the system cannot flag me as a not eligible to vote why should I care? No point in going to Britain to vote as their corrupt bunch of tossers (Labour) are not holding a referendum and why would I want to vote in a country where I don't live?

OldJay · 15-09-2009 4:33pm

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Jocke, är du verkligen från Sverige eller har du bara använder Google språkverktyg?

Tror at han bruker Google.
Jeg? Bodde fem år i Norge.

Scofflaw · 15-09-2009 4:34pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

My point is why should I be able to vote in local elections and, I think, National elections and not in referenda which clearly affect me as a resident of the country. As I said - bureaucratic nonsense - unless you can convince me otherwise. Anyway if the system cannot flag me as a not eligible to vote why should I care? No point in going to Britain to vote as their corrupt bunch of tossers (Labour) are not holding a referenda and why would I want to vote in a country where I don't live?

You're allowed to vote in local elections and national elections (also euro elections) in order that you may be represented, despite not being a citizen. You are not allowed to vote in referendums because they amend the Constitution of Ireland, which is a matter determined solely by the people of Ireland. You renounced that membership by renouncing your citizenship, and with it the right to amend the Constitution of Ireland.

regards,
Scofflaw

me_right_one · 15-09-2009 4:36pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

My point is why should I be able to vote in local elections and, I think, National elections and not in referenda which clearly affect me as a resident of the country. As I said - bureaucratic nonsense - unless you can convince me otherwise. Anyway if the system cannot flag me as a not eligible to vote why should I care? No point in going to Britain to vote as their corrupt bunch of tossers (Labour) are not holding a referenda and why would I want to vote in a country where I don't live?

You are one seriously nationalistically fcuked up person!

Judgement Day · 15-09-2009 4:46pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

You're allowed to vote in local elections and national elections (also euro elections) in order that you may be represented, despite not being a citizen. You are not allowed to vote in referendums because they amend the Constitution of Ireland, which is a matter determined solely by the people of Ireland. You renounced that membership by renouncing your citizenship, and with it the right to amend the Constitution of Ireland.

regards,
Scofflaw

Well thank you for that - the first time it has been rationalised for me! However, I will still be voting against Lisbon as I am not worried about the technicalities (Constitutional issues) but more of about the development of the EU as a United States of Europe. Voting against the treaty is my only way of voicing my concerns. If I lived in the UK and they had the balls to have a referenda I would vote NO there.

As for being 'nationalistically' fcuked up - I am British, I live in the Republic of Ireland and just because I dislike the British Labour party doesn't mean I have any idenity issues.

Scofflaw · 15-09-2009 4:51pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well thank you for that - the first time it has been rationalised for me! However, I will still be voting against Lisbon as I am not worried about the technicalities (Constitutional issues) but more of about the development of the EU as a United States of Europe. Voting against the treaty is my only way of voicing my concerns. If I lived in the UK and they had the balls to have a referenda I would vote NO there.

Regrettably - and this would apply whichever way you were voting - I cannot stop you.

Scofflaw

PopeBuckfastXVI · 15-09-2009 4:52pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Well thank you for that - the first time it has been rationalised for me! However, I will still be voting against Lisbon as I am not worried about the technicalities (Constitutional issues) but more of about the development of the EU as a United States of Europe. Voting against the treaty is my only way of voicing my concerns. If I lived in the UK and they had the balls to have a referenda I would vote NO there.

As for being 'nationalistically' fcuked up - I am British, I live in the Republic of Ireland and just because I dislike the British Labour party doesn't mean I have any idenity issues.

Did you regain your Irish citizenship to vote? Was it hard to do?

prinz · 15-09-2009 4:55pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

......about the development of the EU as a United States of Europe. Voting against the treaty is my only way of voicing my concerns.

O the irony. Seeing as how Mr Ganley believes...

A United States of Europe, structured properly, could benefit Europeans and the world

It is time for the creation of new, truly pan-European political organizations

A federal Europe is a pretty good idea, if it possessed an accountable administration with a clear European identity and position on the world stage;

http://www.fpri.org/ww/0405.200312.ganley.euconstitution.html

Now seriously if the Lisbon Treaty was paving the way for a "United States of Europe" don't you think Declan Ganley would be at the forefront of the YES campaign?

Judgement Day · 15-09-2009 5:07pm

Prinz - I have my reasons for voting NO and I can't help it that the likes of Libertas, Coir and Sinn Fein are also in the same camp - not of my choosing.

And no I did not regain my Irish citizenship, I am voting NO by using the fcuked up voting system that we have - perhaps the money squandered on the e-voting machines would have been better spent on tidying up the existing system, electoral registers etc? As I said in an earlier post I wonder how many others will vote knowingly ineligible or unknowingly - as I genuinely only found out by accident. Anyway I will leave you all to it as it really is too boring to get worked up over.

prinz · 15-09-2009 5:09pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Prinz - I have my reasons for voting NO and I can't help it that the likes of Libertas, Coir and Sinn Fein are also in the same camp - not of my choosing..

What other reasons then?

PopeBuckfastXVI · 15-09-2009 5:14pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Prinz - I have my reasons for voting NO and I can't help it that the likes of Libertas, Coir and Sinn Fein are also in the same camp - not of my choosing.

And no I did not regain my Irish citizenship, I am voting NO by using the fcuked up voting system that we have - perhaps the money squandered on the e-voting machines would have been better spent on tidying up the existing system, electoral registers etc? As I said in an earlier post I wonder how many others will vote knowingly ineligible or unknowingly - as I genuinely only found out by accident. Anyway I will leave you all to it as it really is too boring to get worked up over.

Ah, so you're voting illegally.

Well I hope you get caught.

ei.sdraob · 15-09-2009 5:17pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Prinz - I have my reasons for voting NO and I can't help it that the likes of Libertas, Coir and Sinn Fein are also in the same camp - not of my choosing.

And no I did not regain my Irish citizenship, I am voting NO by using the fcuked up voting system that we have - perhaps the money squandered on the e-voting machines would have been better spent on tidying up the existing system, electoral registers etc? As I said in an earlier post I wonder how many others will vote knowingly ineligible or unknowingly - as I genuinely only found out by accident. Anyway I will leave you all to it as it really is too boring to get worked up over.

by voting illegally you are committing fraud

you denounced your irish citizenship, now man up and deal with problems of your new country

what you are doing is illegal and wrong

sending out voting cards to wrong person is not illegal, marching an voting despite knowing that you are not entitled to do so is downright slimy

i said earlier "wait till someone from UK comes along" i was joking, but after reading your posts and your rationalistisation im sickened

shame on you

edit: can this post be removed im not sure why i even bothered wasting breath

ixtlan · 15-09-2009 6:17pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Prinz - I have my reasons for voting NO and I can't help it that the likes of Libertas, Coir and Sinn Fein are also in the same camp - not of my choosing.

And no I did not regain my Irish citizenship, I am voting NO by using the fcuked up voting system that we have

I am more curious than anything else... You renounced your citizenship after Omagh, and I'm sure there may be a lot of pain behind that decision. However you are then annoyed that you cannot vote in a referendum? What did you think you were giving up? Just the passport?

I type carefully here knowing this may be very sensitive for you. I have never ever supported Sinn Fein or their ilk, so I feel I can make a comment like this. Renounciation of citizenship is a serious step which indicates a serious break with the country involved. In some ways a diplomatic slap in the face. So that's why we are so surprised at your surprise and annoyance at not legally being able to vote in the country which you renounced.

I have to ask, again with the greatest of respect, whether Sinn Fein's vehement opposition to Lisbon give you any pause?

Ix

Judgement Day · 15-09-2009 6:40pm

Ixtlan - thank you for a civil question! I said I would say no more but while I wait for the dinner to cook and an item on eBay to come up ...

'I am more curious than anything else... You renounced your citizenship after Omagh, and I'm sure there may be a lot of pain behind that decision. However you are then annoyed that you cannot vote in a referendum? What did you think you were giving up? Just the passport?'

Yes, the passport in the main and the right to call myself an Irish citizen and I am surprised about the referendum - if I can vote in local and national elections it makes no sense to me that I can't vote in a referendum which may have a bearing on my life in the Republic of Ireland.

Omagh was the straw that broke the camel's back and as I was entitled to have either Irish or British citizenship I chose to take up the latter. I still love Ireland (in many ways) and try to be a good citizen here but this does not extend to not having a lash at the EU at every opportunity! I have never voted twice despite the extra polling cards and have informed the authorities of the problem.

Unlike others on these boards I do not resort to personal abuse against those I disagree with or adopt a laughable, moral high ground.

prinz · 15-09-2009 6:48pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Unlike others on these boards I do not resort to personal abuse against those I disagree with or adopt a laughable, moral high ground.

"A laughable moral high ground" it's called obeying the laws of the land.

I find your assertion that obeying the law is now laughable to be personally abusive.

P. Breathnach · 15-09-2009 6:52pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

... I still love Ireland (in many ways) and try to be a good citizen here but this does not extend to not having a lash at the EU at every opportunity! I have never voted twice despite the extra polling cards and have informed the authorities of the problem. ...

Voting even once in a ballot in which you are not entitled to vote is not the action of a good citizen.

sceptre · 15-09-2009 6:52pm

Note that I haven't read any posts bar the first one.

Jocke wrote: »

Hello! I am from Sweden and I am sick of EU becoming a monster state like the Soviet Union with the Lisbon Treaty. You have to vote no again, not only for yourselves or for Swedes but for all people in the European Union. This no should be a reaction towards the system in which everyone aren't allowed to vote.

Sorry. Get your own referendums. I'm voting for me, not for you. I might vote yes, i might vote no, who knows (er, I do as it happens but for the purposes of this demonstration I'm making no comment).

Stand up for your democracy (and mine) and VOTE NO!

As I've said elsewhere I enjoy the right of the Irish people to directly decide on their own sovereignty. I look forward to such democracy being extended to such fine countries as Sweden. But I won't make you, so don't make me.

A yes vote = a vote for a new Soviet Union

In a word, that's bollocks. And it's not even defensible bollocks. Were you ever even in the Soviet Union? I was. The day you see people getting up at 5am to queue at the bakery and for apples, come back and I'll let you get away with that one.

Welcome to the forum by the way. It's hosted in a country where the right of direct democracy in matters of sovereignty is enshrined in the constitution, which can only be changed by a public vote. Honestly, you guys should try it. We have cookies.

Addendum: for anyone who's wondering, without giving away private information, I can verify that the first poster on the thread is posting from Sweden.

sensibleken · 15-09-2009 7:20pm

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

They're all dead.

I didn't know them, but I would be hard pressed to imagine any of them agreeing with the charter of fundamental rights...

zing!

Mario007 · 15-09-2009 7:36pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Ixtlan - thank you for a civil question! I said I would say no more but while I wait for the dinner to cook and an item on eBay to come up ...

'I am more curious than anything else... You renounced your citizenship after Omagh, and I'm sure there may be a lot of pain behind that decision. However you are then annoyed that you cannot vote in a referendum? What did you think you were giving up? Just the passport?'

Yes, the passport in the main and the right to call myself an Irish citizen and I am surprised about the referendum - if I can vote in local and national elections it makes no sense to me that I can't vote in a referendum which may have a bearing on my life in the Republic of Ireland.

Omagh was the straw that broke the camel's back and as I was entitled to have either Irish or British citizenship I chose to take up the latter. I still love Ireland (in many ways) and try to be a good citizen here but this does not extend to not having a lash at the EU at every opportunity! I have never voted twice despite the extra polling cards and have informed the authorities of the problem.

Unlike others on these boards I do not resort to personal abuse against those I disagree with or adopt a laughable, moral high ground.

Its simple as this:

Irish Citizen- can vote on everything that is subject to a vote.
British Citizen - can't vote on referenda and on the presidential elections, but can vote to the Dail(which is rather strange), local councils and the euro elections.
EU Citizens- can vote only to euro and local elections(thanks to EU treaties)
Immigrant- no vote(though i might be wrong on this one, do correct me if thats the case)

sceptre · 15-09-2009 7:43pm

Mario007 wrote: »

Irish Citizen- can vote on everything that is subject to a vote.
British Citizen - can't vote on referenda and on the presidential elections, but can vote to the Dail(which is rather strange), local councils and the euro elections.

Bilateral agreement on the Dail/Commons elections. They get to vote for President when we get to vote for King/Queen. Seems fair.

Mario007 wrote: »

Immigrant- no vote(though i might be wrong on this one, do correct me if thats the case)

Locals (which makes sense). You're correct on everything else though.

Voting in a capacity to which a voter isn't entitled can result in severe legal penalties. It's mentioned on the polling card. And obviously it's the law, which is the law even for someone who hasn't read the law.

Mario007 · 15-09-2009 8:01pm

sceptre wrote: »

Bilateral agreement on the Dail/Commons elections. They get to vote for President when we get to vote for King/Queen. Seems fair.

Locals (which makes sense). You're correct on everything else though.

Voting in a capacity to which a voter isn't entitled can result in severe legal penalties. It's mentioned on the polling card. And obviously it's the law, which is the law even for someone who hasn't read the law.

oh cool thanks for correcting me. with regards to british citizens i was only remarking that it seems strange to me that a citizen of a different state gets to vote on the national parliament of this state. i'm looking at this from an outside perspective since i'm from slovakia:)

ei.sdraob · 16-09-2009 9:04am

Mario007 wrote: »

oh cool thanks for correcting me. with regards to british citizens i was only remarking that it seems strange to me that a citizen of a different state gets to vote on the national parliament of this state. i'm looking at this from an outside perspective since i'm from slovakia:)

Yes immigrants from outside EU can vote on locals which is quite fair

tho i don't think many do or even aware of it

mickoneill30 · 16-09-2009 9:22am

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Yes immigrants from outside EU can vote on locals which is quite fair

tho i don't think many do or even aware of it

My other half is Aussie. We got a polling card for her on the last local elections. We've no idea how she got on the register. Probably PPS number. Not complaining though. Before that I thought she'd have to be a citizen too.

Now you have a resposobility to vote no!

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