How do we force a national election? And should we?

Drumpot

Amhran Nua wrote: »

As you've pointed out, its by no means unique to Ireland.

Which doesn't make it right. .

Just means that there's many many people voting a certain way for the wrong reasons around the world, then for the right ones . .

Amhran Nua

Drumpot wrote: »

Just means that there's many many people voting a certain way for the wrong reasons around the world, then for the right ones . .

This phenomenon is so well known that its a wonder the government PR people haven't taken advantage of it. FF asleep at the wheel again?

Drumpot

Amhran Nua wrote: »

This phenomenon is so well known that its a wonder the government PR people haven't taken advantage of it. FF asleep at the wheel again?

Good point . .

Perhaps FF should of been pushing a "No". .

Cool Mo D

It isn't actually that difficult to get the Government out. All you have to do is find a few TDs who care more about being re-elected than the fate of their party. Since FF are in power, there are no shortage of them.

If you want to get the Government out, street protests are a waste of time. Identify a few TDs in trouble in their constituency, and start writing letters, going to their clinics, writing into local media, with one simple message - leave Government or you will lose your seat.

If you want to change the Government, you need to be smart. Targeted action to be effective. Put specific individuals under personal pressure!

Amhran Nua

Drumpot wrote: »

Good point . .

Perhaps FF should of been pushing a "No". .

Maybe they secretly want a No vote? Ah wheels within wheels, you could go mad. I went mad about six months ago and started a political party.

Drumpot

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Maybe they secretly want a No vote? Ah wheels within wheels, you could go mad. I went mad about six months ago and started a political party.

The plot thickens . .

dvpower

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Identify a few TDs in trouble in their constituency, and start writing letters, going to their clinics, writing into local media, with one simple message - leave Government or you will lose your seat.

Won't a FF TD who breaks ranks now and brings down the government find it difficult in get reselected on a FF ticket in a general election?

Much as I dislike FF, I'm not sure that a general election at the moment is in our best interests. I'd be willing to bide my time until the next election and screw them into the ground then. (Mind you, I've been doing this for the last 20 years with little or no effect)

LostinBlanch

A growing disconnect between the current regime and citizens is opening. Governments need the permission of the people to rule. They don't have that and know it but are trying to ignore this and bluff their way through. Ignoring this is dangerous and damages democracy.

It leaves space for other groups with their own agendas to grow. God knows we have our own loopers like RIRA CIRA etc. How long before one of them starts acting like the Baader Meinhoff / Red Army Faction in the 70's and early 80's and target bankers and property developers in an attempt to broaden their appeal? God knows they've got the guns. And there's enough anger out there and it's only going to get stronger and stronger when people realise exactly how much they've been ripped off, treated like sh*t and how powerless they are to change things.

You know what, I think that some people would have a more ambivalent attitude to this kind of thing than previously. if those targetted were the Seanie Fitz's and Fingers of this world who are getting off scot free.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not advocating anything like this, but just looking at things that may happen further down the line.

Dangerous times we're living in.

Sorry if this appears overdramatic but it's just that it seems to me that things are going to get a lot worse.

I'd love to be proven wrong though.

leonardjos

Even though I was in favour of the Lisbon Treaty until yesterday, it has now become clear to me that the only way to stop NAMA and get rid of Fianna Fail is to

VOTE NO TO THE LISBON TREATY.

The effects of voting no are minor on the European agenda. They will realise that it relates to the NAMA proposal. We can just have another referendum when the new government comes in

But rejecting Lisbon from a position of strong approval in recent polls, would be the final nail in the coffin of this FF-led government. We can get them out before they manage to ram NAMA down our throats!

The government has no mandate for NAMA and we are having no say (either through a general election or a referendum). Since we are not getting a vote on NAMA, the only course of action remaining is to vote no on Lisbon. :mad:

Amhran Nua

leonardjos wrote: »

But rejecting Lisbon from a position of strong approval in recent polls, would be the final nail in the coffin of this FF-led government.

Why, they can hold on as long as they like.

Count Dooku

Cool Mo D wrote: »

If you want to get the Government out, street protests are a waste of time.

Street protests are not working due media blockade.
Non of Irish newspapers published report about protest on Saturday 12, only BBC published photo from protest, where you can see how many people attended.
I hope that nobody has illusions anymore that Irish newspapers are for Irish people. Irish newspapers only for Irish political establishment, they will publish information about individuals, but will ignore facts that many people don’t trust politicians anymore.

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Identify a few TDs in trouble in their constituency, and start writing letters, going to their clinics, writing into local media, with one simple message - leave Government or you will lose your seat.

If you want to change the Government, you need to be smart. Targeted action to be effective. Put specific individuals under personal pressure!

I would add that don’t do it alone, involve your friends as well.
It must be war without rules.
All existing politicians must be wiped out from political landscape, nobody should be spared. At least it will give good lesson to next generation of politicians, otherwise they will screw country even more

SMCG

Count Dooku wrote: »

Street protests are not working due media blockade.
Non of Irish newspapers published report about protest on Saturday 12, only BBC published photo from protest, where you can see how many people attended.
I hope that nobody has illusions anymore that Irish newspapers are for Irish people. Irish newspapers only for Irish political establishment, they will publish information about individuals, but will ignore facts that many people don’t trust politicians anymore.

Oh no I'm so dissappointed to see this in the BBC website, when I heard nothing I assumed nothing had happened. This is the worst news - how could we be or feel more powerless?

User21027

The problem with our economy is fundamental still. It needs reformed from Grass Roots up. Things like legislation that allows for multiple pensions for multiple positions held should be scrapped effective immediately., I've had numerous jobs in my life but i'll only get one state pension like everybody else.
Legislation that NO HSE staff can be sacked is crazy. It was meant to protect jobs during the amalgamation of the health boards ONLY,
and it would get rid of 1,000's of people doing literally nothing and getting a min of 30k per year for it.
40c in every €1 is spent on administration in the HSE, sohow is it that your file goes missing when so many 'experts' are in charge of it?
€100,000 a year salaries for exGuards as Ministerial drivers is a crime. How many taxi men are working 90 hour weeks just to come home with a salary equal to minimum wage? And a Guard on his full pension is getting 100k per year to drive minister's around in 09 D free cars? Criminal!!
Expenses should be broken down into "constituency offices expenses" and "expenses incurred while on duty", to allow for full disclosure of payment. The people in charge of these expenses should be retired economists or something. Independent people. not members of the FF party.
Brian Cowen wants to bring in new legislation to stop expenses being abused, all he has to do is sack the people who have been approving them thus far- oh wait- that was him as minister for finance!!
See FF is riddled with back scratchers. When J O'Donohue was Min for Arts etc Brian Cowen signed off on his expenses. They are buddies see..
Brian Cowen owns property in the UK etc too, so he's not gonns screw the developers cos they have dirt on him.
Over 80% of pubs in Ireland are owned by TD's so the zero tolerance for drink driving will never be brought in cos our rural networks are not able to provide alternative transport to the drinkers if they DID leave their cars at home... Its all a huge, intricate web of deceit. Its easier to throw more money at it, this time 54 billion, and tax us to pay for it, than it is to fix everything.

The health service could be state of the art without spening a dime. Like the Amercian example. Get the wheelchairs back that were never returned, crutches etc. Get people to pay their bills. Reduce the consultants money. Do more operations. Make all staff work at least 8 full hours a day, not consultants going home around 2pm for Golf, and reduce waiting lists. These are all jobs that people are currently being paid to do, but are not doing properly. But no-one revisies it, and where is the incentive to work hard if you cannot be sacked. see it goes round and round...

Even when scandals are exposed in the papers about wasted money. NO-ONE is held accountable. Mary Coughlan gave Rody Molloy from Fás another 1.4 million pension top-up after he wasted over €622,000 on an advert that never aired, €9,000 on a car for a raffle that was never held etc etc Was he sacked, did she sack him? NO She rewarded him! How can we, the Irish people, stomach this? SOMEONE got that free car. Thats theft!! And believe in them to take us, honestly, out of this recession? How can we trust the people put in charge of over-seeing NAMA not to scoop the cream off the top of it too? Who will be caught stealing from it? You can be guaranteed someone will, more jobs for the boys, not qualified accountants. Plus, its only getting reviewed every 5 yrs. Its only meant to last for 10 years before it breaks even. I'd be keeping a closer eye on my 55 billion!!!!
But they know they wont make the next election and then it will be someone elses problem.

User21027

Even if NAMA was a great idea, which i dont believe it is, i cannot trust something which is overseen by crooked politicians, thieves, liars and cheats. They are all the same really so i can offer no alternative but FF to handle 55 billion? Not on a good day.
Even look at the Dáil after Lenihan finished waffling on- nearly every seat in the house emptied!! There was a stampeed, so bad that when Caoimhín O'Caoiláinn tried to speak our Ceann Comhairle had to ring the bell, and wait for silence- So many TD made a break for the door.
So eager were they to get home, cos lets face it, once they clock in the get paid for the day, they get €55 per day expenses etc - there is nothing left to sit there for. Unless someone is actually interested in the responses of the opposition- Ha yeah right- No, once FF got their piece said the house all but emptied.

At one stage Enda Kenny was addressing Lenihan when he got up and left, i assume for a toilet break- How can a minister be allowed to leave the house when he is being directly addresses by another TD? How rude!!

Enda Kenny, i note was the ONLY TD/ minister sitting up interestingly and listening to all points of view. Most of FF were sleeping, (then again thats what 70 year olds do a lot) and the greens etc were chatting amongst themselves! Again how rude!!
Brian Cowen was not taking notes from Enda Kenny to rebuke him on anything but got up hot headed and red faced and screamed his reply back. The Greens, John Gormley in particular, sat proping his head up with his hand for it through-out.
That does not instill confidence in the viewing public!!

I dont see myself staying in this country. I am a true republican, and i have great pride in my country. My mother being burned out of Ardoyne at age 17 while babysitting her 7 bro's and sis's by protestants she grew up with when the troubles started. I have great interest in our countries past, history, politics etc But FF have ruined it irrepairably, and now my grandkids will be paying off NAMA.

I'm stomached.

Riskymove

40c in every €1 is spent on administration in the HSE, sohow is it that your file goes missing when so many 'experts' are in charge of it?

The HSE is the single biggest issue in public spending really; the vested interests have ruled for too long and badly needs tackling

€100,000 a year salaries for exGuards as Ministerial drivers is a crime. How many taxi men are working 90 hour weeks just to come home with a salary equal to minimum wage? And a Guard on his full pension is getting 100k per year to drive minister's around in 09 D free cars? Criminal!!

I think you mixed soemthing up on this one, Minister's drivers are active Guards not retired ones

Expenses should be broken down into "constituency offices expenses" and "expenses incurred while on duty", to allow for full disclosure of payment.

I agree

The people in charge of these expenses should be retired economists or something. Independent people. not members of the FF party.

FF people are not in charge of expenses. I thing publication and clarification as mentioned above would remove the need for much of this tbh

Brian Cowen wants to bring in new legislation to stop expenses being abused, all he has to do is sack the people who have been approving them thus far- oh wait- that was him as minister for finance!!

yep

See FF is riddled with back scratchers. When J O'Donohue was Min for Arts etc Brian Cowen signed off on his expenses. They are buddies see..

Min of fincnace would have no role in approving expenses of another minister.

Brian Cowen owns property in the UK etc too, so he's not gonns screw the developers cos they have dirt on him.

he's free to invest abroad if he likes surely?

Over 80% of pubs in Ireland are owned by TD's so the zero tolerance for drink driving will never be brought in cos our rural networks are not able to provide alternative transport to the drinkers if they DID leave their cars at home...

there are TDs who are pub owners, but 80%? dont think so. TBH if it was that easy the limit would never be reduced, random breath testing never brought in etc

The health service could be state of the art without spening a dime. Like the Amercian example.

The US system is usaully held up as a bad example not a good one

Even when scandals are exposed in the papers about wasted money. NO-ONE is held accountable. Mary Coughlan gave Rody Molloy from Fás another 1.4 million pension top-up after he wasted over €622,000 on an advert that never aired, €9,000 on a car for a raffle that was never held

Roddy Molloy resigned over his expenses really not the other stuff you mentioned

Idbatterim

could the greens not have scuppered nama by threatening to pull out of governement, and doing so, if the government did force it through. Over the past few months my opinion of the greens has gone from, whatever to not wanting to see them in government again ever! can they come up with any other proposal that raising the tax on already over taxed items such as fuel etc?