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Dissident Republicans vow to kill dealers...

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    #152
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    "The Reals" ????? :rolleyes:

    It may not have been your intention, but using colloquialisms like that imply acceptance and attempted normalisation.

    It's common parlance, the same way the Reals are sometimes called the "Coca Colas" (always the real thing...) or the Continuity IRA is called the Contos or the Provisionals are called the Provos, or the Workers' Party the Sticks.


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    #153
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    It's common parlance, the same way the Reals are sometimes called the "Coca Colas" (always the real thing...) or the Continuity IRA is called the Contos or the Provisionals are called the Provos, or the Workers' Party the Sticks.

    All I can say is that it must be "common parlance" among certain sections, because it's the first time I've seen it used.

    Readers of the thread can interpret for themselves whether it implies and acceptance of what they do.


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    #154
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    All I can say is that it must be "common parlance" among certain sections, because it's the first time I've seen it used.

    Readers of the thread can interpret for themselves whether it implies and acceptance of what they do.
    I don't think that the use of a term implies acceptance of what they do. It's just a label. You could call them The Boomtown Rats. Does that imply acceptance of what they do?


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    #155
    Souljacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Souljacker


    It's nice to see there's some agreement, across the political spectrum that 'the reals' cannot and should not be accepted.


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    #156
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    All I can say is that it must be "common parlance" among certain sections, because it's the first time I've seen it used.

    Readers of the thread can interpret for themselves whether it implies and acceptance of what they do.

    You're a great man for the drama LB, I assume you'll be challenging the next fella you hear using the term "Provos" and insinuating he is a closet sympathiser?


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    #157
    Souljacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Souljacker


    FTA69 wrote: »
    You're a great man for the drama LB, I assume you'll be challenging the next fella you hear using the term "Provos" and insinuating he is a closet sympathiser?

    I don't think you can compare the use of the term 'the provos' with the 'the reals.' The term provos has been in use for decades your use of 'the reals' is the first time I've heard anyone refer to the rira as such.

    Maybe inside republican circles 'the reals' is common parlance, but for the majorty of Irish people it ain't.


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    #158
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    You're a great man for the drama LB, I assume you'll be challenging the next fella you hear using the term "Provos" and insinuating he is a closet sympathiser?

    Hmmm....."drama", eh ?

    Definition one : challenging the suggestion that a made-up word I've never heard before is "common parlance", when it obviously isn't something that mainstream society use.

    Definition two : having violent criminals offer to sort out drug-dealers

    I know which of those 2 is more likely to be a storyline on EastEnders :rolleyes:

    As I said, I've never heard of it and would never use it, but I was 100% gracious and open-minded on the term when I suggested that readers of the thread could make up their own minds whether it was the type of phrase that the people who view IRA member as "comrades" might use.

    So less of the digs, please; there's no drama in offering my opinion while admitting that its up to others to read into the term as they please; move along now.


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    #159
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Souljacker wrote: »
    I don't think you can compare the use of the term 'the provos' with the 'the reals.' The term provos has been in use for decades your use of 'the reals' is the first time I've heard anyone refer to the rira as such.
    Point of information. I've also heard the term 'Realers' and the 'RA used to described the RIRA. Use of such terms does not mean that someone is a sympathiser. They're just labels.


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    #160
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Use of such terms does not mean that someone is a sympathiser. They're just labels.

    So is the word "scum", so I presume that you'd be OK if I use that ?


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    #161
    Souljacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Souljacker


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Point of information. I've also heard the term 'Realers' and the 'RA used to described the RIRA. Use of such terms does not mean that someone is a sympathiser. They're just labels.

    The point I made was that there's no comparison between the terms 'the provos' and the 'the reals.' one's a term the vast majority of Irish people recognise (i.e. common parlance) and the other's not by a mile.

    I think it's a fair point to say the use of terms like 'the reals', 'realers,' 'ra' (meaning the rira) are only used within republicanism and even then I doubt their use is that wide spread. I've never ever heard a SF spokesperson or representative use any of the above pet names. In my experience they're referred to as 'the so called real IRA by mainstream republicans, if anything besides 'dissident republicans' or 'the rira.'


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    #162
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    So is the word "scum", so I presume that you'd be OK if I use that ?
    I've no problem with what label you use to be honest, as it's just a label to me. You're the one that threw out silly accusations based on use of labels.
    Souljacker wrote: »
    The point I made was that there's no comparison between the terms 'the provos' and the 'the reals.' one's a term the vast majority of Irish people recognise (i.e. common parlance) and the other's not by a mile.
    I don't dispute that, but is that what this thread is going to turn into? A dispute over the use of colloquialisms and their connotations? I was just highlighting the fact that I'd heard of other labels for the RIRA and that use of those terms is not necessarily an indication of sympathy or support.
    I think it's a fair point to say the use of terms like 'the reals', 'realers,' 'ra' (meaning the rira) are only used within republicanism and even then I doubt their use is that wide spread. I've never ever heard a SF spokesperson or representative use any of the above pet names. In my experience they're referred to as 'the so called real IRA by mainstream republicans, if anything besides 'dissident republicans' or 'the rira.'
    Why would a Sinn Féin spokesperson need to use the term to validate that it is a commonly used colloquialism? Again, I don't think that the use of the terms 'Reals', 'Realers' and ''RA' is an important aspect of discussion here. Liam Byrne decided that he felt it was an indication of support for the RIRA to use such terms and here we are.


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    #163
    Souljacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Souljacker


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Why would a Sinn Féin spokesperson need to use the term to validate that it is a commonly used colloquialism?

    Because SF represent mainstream republicanism. And if they don't use it I fail to see how anyone can describe those labels as 'commonly used colloquialisms' inside or indeed outside republicanism. We may have to agree to disagree with this point.

    DoireNod wrote: »
    I don't dispute that, but is that what this thread is going to turn into? A dispute over the use of colloquialisms and their connotations? I was just highlighting the fact that I'd heard of other labels for the RIRA and that use of those terms is not necessarily an indication of sympathy or support.

    FTA69 was putting the use of the term 'the reals' on a par with 'the provos.' It clearly isn't, imo and that was the only point I was making. And as yet I haven't seen anyone refute it.

    No it's not the most important of points (however I still think you can learn a lot about meanings from the language and labels people use, how they present themselves online, what they put in their sigs etc..) when the said group of terrorists are issuing death threats, a criminal group with no shortage of innocent blood on their hands, who have nothing but contempt for Irish democracy.

    To go back to the main point: I Hope the Gardai and PSNI come down hard on anyone found to be a member of this fascist organisation.


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    #164
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Souljacker wrote: »
    Because SF represent mainstream republicanism. And if they don't use it I fail to see how you can describe those labels as 'commonly used colloquialisms' inside or indeed outside republicanism. We may have to agree to disagree with this point.
    Yes, mainstream republicanism. By being mainstream, you're expected to keep up appearances and use formal terms, not use colloquialisms. Maybe you've misunderstood the word 'colloquialism'? Colloquialisms aren't usually identified as being mainstream. They're usually unacceptably informal.
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colloquialism

    We can agree to disagree, but these labels are still commonly used by people in reference to the RIRA. I've heard many people, (republican, nationalist and apolitical) use the terms and I wouldn't say that it means they are supporting the RIRA. It's like calling the INLA the 'IRPS'. Just a label. Nothing more, nothing less - that's my only point.


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    #165
    Souljacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Souljacker


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Yes, mainstream republicanism. By being mainstream, you're expected to keep up appearances and use formal terms, not use colloquialisms. Maybe you've misunderstood the word 'colloquialism'? Colloquialisms aren't usually identified as being mainstream. They're usually unacceptably informal.
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colloquialism

    We can agree to disagree, but these labels are still commonly used by people in reference to the RIRA. I've heard many people, (republican, nationalist and apolitical) use the terms and I wouldn't say that it means they are supporting the RIRA. It's like calling the INLA the 'IRPS'. Just a label. Nothing more, nothing less - that's my only point.

    Thank you for your concern but I'm well aware of what the word colloquialism means.
    I'm from Northern Ireland I'm very interested in politics and I come into contact with many different people with a variety of political persuasions and none and never once have I heard the term 'the reals' used to describe the rira.' For it to be a colloquialism it has to be first used in common speech, so please pray tell where exactly is it Colloquial to?

    Since when has mainstream republicanism expressed itself solely in 'formal terms' or in 'proper english?' If anything SF party members have been at pains to be seen to be a 'earthy' party of the people and distance itself from anything remotely linked to 'the queens english.' Maybe you should take a look at some SF speeches and interviews, they're packed with colloquialisms!!

    I think you may be taking the definition of 'mainstream' a little too literally there!

    I however (again) agree that we've completely strayed off point and this particular debate is nothing more than a distraction from the fascist acts of the RIRA in both Northern Ireland and the Republic.


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    #166
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    DoireNod wrote: »
    Liam Byrne decided that he felt it was an indication of support for the RIRA to use such terms and here we are.

    Ah now, don't blame me for that one! I EXPLICITY gave my opinion and then equally EXPLICITY said that anyone else reading the thread could make up their own mind.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Readers of the thread can interpret for themselves whether it implies and acceptance of what they do.

    Quoted verbatim from earlier post - even including the typo


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    #167
    DoireNod
    Registered Users Posts: 863 ✭✭✭DoireNod


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Ah now, don't blame me for that one! I EXPLICITY gave my opinion and then equally EXPLICITY said that anyone else reading the thread could make up their own mind.



    Quoted verbatim from earlier post - even including the typo
    Apologies!


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    #168
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Souljacker wrote: »
    I think it's a fair point to say the use of terms like 'the reals', 'realers,' 'ra' (meaning the rira) are only used within republicanism and even then I doubt their use is that wide spread.

    They're also referred to as the "coca colas", "cokes", "ree-rah" etc by people not remotely supportive of them, and they aren't just terms used by Republican activists either.
    I've never ever heard a SF spokesperson or representative use any of the above pet names. In my experience they're referred to as 'the so called real IRA by mainstream republicans, if anything besides 'dissident republicans' or 'the rira.'

    You'll never hear them refer to the "Sticks" or the "Provos" in public either, it doesn't mean they or others don't use those terms.

    As I said, people can attach whatever drama to my usage of the term, it doesn't bother me in the least.


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    #169
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    As I said, people can attach whatever drama meaning to my usage of the term, it doesn't bother me in the least.

    Fixed that for you; it's funny, though, the above post partially proves my point, showing that you do have a tendency to use particular terms in order to put a slant on your posts that otherwise wouldn't be there.

    No-one's "attaching drama"; I said that I would have assumed a particular meaning through your use of a softening semi-colloquialism, but others could make up their own mind. So they can do that.

    If you'd said "meaning" instead of "drama" in the post above, then fair enough; and if you'd said that you didn't intend to imply an acceptance of the criminal group, then I'd have to accept it.

    But using the word "drama" does make me give you a diminished benefit of the doubt, and combining that with your sig (asking to free someone without any declaration of innocence) casts a slant on your opinion of groups involved in criminal activities.


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    #170
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Looks like Fachtna and Matt are going to treat them for what they are, criminals,using a "cause" as cover for diesel laundering, counterfeit goods sale or cigarette smuggling.

    (Source News at One on RTE)

    According to those gentleman they have no political support although I suppose you will get the usual handful of left wing "rent a cause" anti establishment merchants supporting them.


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    #171
    Souljacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 121 ✭✭Souljacker


    FTA69 wrote: »



    They're also referred to as the "coca colas", "cokes", "ree-rah" etc by people not remotely supportive of them, and they aren't just terms used by Republican activists either.



    You'll never hear them refer to the "Sticks" or the "Provos" in public either, it doesn't mean they or others don't use those terms.

    As I said, people can attach whatever drama to my usage of the term, it doesn't bother me in the least.

    Fine, that's your opinion I've gave mine, I can't see any point discussing it further.


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