Voting No because of O'Donoghue et al

RobAMerc

Hi,

I am not normally one to get at all political but this time I feel I must vote the way I feel is right.

Because of the actions of John O'Donoghue with regard to his expenses and the deafening silence of the opposition towards this, I have come to the conclusion that not one of them is worthy of my trust in light of this.

Given that they are almost unanimous in their support of Lisbon and my total lack of faith in them, I am compounded to vote No.

Am I alone in feeling this way ?

Rob

ei.sdraob

RobAMerc wrote: »

Hi,

I am not normally one to get at all political but this time I feel I must vote the way I feel is right.

Because of the actions of John O'Donoghue with regard to his expenses and the deafening silence of the opposition towards this, I have come to the conclusion that not one of them is worthy of my trust in light of this.

Given that they are almost unanimous in their support of Lisbon and my total lack of faith in them, I am compounded to vote No.

Am I alone in feeling this way ?

Rob

You sound like a reasonable man (well at least you post is more than one sentences long)

So please answer this


What does that have anything to do with Lisbon?

SparkyLarks

RobAMerc wrote: »

Hi,

I am not normally one to get at all political but this time I feel I must vote the way I feel is right.

Because of the actions of John O\'Donoghue with regard to his expenses and the deafening silence of the opposition towards this, I have come to the conclusion that not one of them is worthy of my trust in light of this.

Given that they are almost unanimous in their support of Lisbon and my total lack of faith in them, I am compounded to vote No.

Am I alone in feeling this way ?

Rob

While I believe that many( most) of our electected representatives are muppets, ( and that is our fault for putting them there), To vote No if you thinkg that the Lisbon treaty is a good deal just because of the actions of the politicians is not a good idea.

I\'m not particulary impressed at any of the people on the no side either.

Read what you can and if you think that what is there is a good deal vote for it. If you don\'t think it is then don\'t.

the muppets have done enough damamge to vote for the treaty or not based on who supports or opposes it is not going to help the Country

turgon

While I share you frustration RobAMerc, voting No for those reasons will amount to shooting yourself in the foot. Voting No will not change the fact this happened, and will probably not change the fact that these people refuse to resign.

Mario007

RobAMerc wrote: »

Hi,

I am not normally one to get at all political but this time I feel I must vote the way I feel is right.

Because of the actions of John O'Donoghue with regard to his expenses and the deafening silence of the opposition towards this, I have come to the conclusion that not one of them is worthy of my trust in light of this.

Given that they are almost unanimous in their support of Lisbon and my total lack of faith in them, I am compounded to vote No.

Am I alone in feeling this way ?

Rob

SF's criticism of O'Donoghue was almost non-existent and they are the main group on the 'no' side. So following your reasoning you should abstain from the vote because all off the parties involved are just incompetent fools(which they really are to be honest)

RobAMerc

Mario007 wrote: »

SF's criticism of O'Donoghue was almost non-existent and they are the main group on the 'no' side. So following your reasoning you should abstain from the vote because all off the parties involved are just incompetent fools(which they really are to be honest)

That's a good point to be fair, but my point is none of these guys can be trusted - and I was always told not to sign anything I didn't understand or the people asking me to sign were untrustworthy.

Politicians are untrustworthy as highlighted by O'Donoghue and the non actions of his colleagues - I will vote NO.

I will not change this opinion unless he is removed from the Dail - simple as.

No is status quo - abstaining means a vote less for the No

RobAMerc

ei.sdraob wrote: »

You sound like a reasonable man (well at least you post is more than one sentences long)

So please answer this


What does that have anything to do with Lisbon?

See above - I'm not voting Yes because they are not trustworthy - I don't trust them I'm not voting for this.

PopeBuckfastXVI

RobAMerc wrote: »

See above - I'm not voting Yes because they are not trustworthy - I don't trust them I'm not voting for this.

No need to trust them... you can find out all about the Lisbon treaty for yourself:

http://www.lisbontreaty.ie/
http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/
http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/index_en.htm
http://www.lisbonexposed.org/

And you can even ask questions here.

If you don't trust the parties advocating a 'yes', what makes you think you can trust the Socialist Party, Sinn Féin or Coir?

Sam Vimes

RobAMerc wrote: »

That's a good point to be fair, but my point is none of these guys can be trusted - and I was always told not to sign anything I didn't understand or the people asking me to sign were untrustworthy.

Politicians are untrustworthy as highlighted by O'Donoghue and the non actions of his colleagues - I will vote NO.

I will not change this opinion unless he is removed from the Dail - simple as.

The government are not "the people asking you to sign" and they are not the only source of information on this treaty, they are one of hundreds of sources. If you don't trust them, why can't you get your information somewhere else?

This treaty is not being proposed by the Irish government, it's being proposed by the European Union, it has been (or will soon be) ratified by 26 other nations and is supported by hundreds of reputable organisations, where the no side has pretty much zero reputable organisations, they have the people who've been against every EU treaty back to and including the one where we joined. This idea that a dislike of Fianna Fail should play some part in your voting decision baffles me tbh

P. Breathnach

We have bad politics and some questionable politicians because people vote for the wrong reasons -- typically preferring to vote for the "fixer" who gets them some personal advantage than for the principled person who wants to do the right thing for everybody.

Your gesture is just as wrong, because you propose to vote on something with a motivation that is unrelated to the matter. You are abandoning the high moral ground.

L_Mn

While I totally feel your frustrations OP,I have to agree with the majority of everyone here..voting no is not the way to take your anger out on these idiots. There are many other ways and we'll get our chance soon,just wait.

Riskymove

RobAMerc wrote: »

See above - I'm not voting Yes because they are not trustworthy - I don't trust them I'm not voting for this.

so...even if you understood the treaty and fully supported it you would vote no because you dont trust politicians? does that really seem rational?

there are politicians on the No side too...or is it just JOD or FF that are the issue?


of course its your vote and only you can decide but if you reflect on it I think you'll come to the conclusion that it makes no sense

meglome

RobAMerc wrote: »

Hi,

I am not normally one to get at all political but this time I feel I must vote the way I feel is right.

Because of the actions of John O'Donoghue with regard to his expenses and the deafening silence of the opposition towards this, I have come to the conclusion that not one of them is worthy of my trust in light of this.

Given that they are almost unanimous in their support of Lisbon and my total lack of faith in them, I am compounded to vote No.

Am I alone in feeling this way ?

Rob

You're not alone at all. I'd love Fianna Fail to be gone, and I mean gone. Just keep in mind that voting for the wrong reasons e.g. ah sure I always voted FF, or ah sure me Granddaddy voted FF, or ah sure me house will be worth 10million next year, or whatever is the reason for a lot of the mess we're in.

is_that_so

RobAMerc wrote: »

Hi,

I am not normally one to get at all political but this time I feel I must vote the way I feel is right.

Because of the actions of John O'Donoghue with regard to his expenses and the deafening silence of the opposition towards this, I have come to the conclusion that not one of them is worthy of my trust in light of this.

Given that they are almost unanimous in their support of Lisbon and my total lack of faith in them, I am compounded to vote No.

Am I alone in feeling this way ?

Rob

I also sympathise with the ire that people feel towards politicians but the time to punish them is at the polls. Playing politics with referenda can produce unwelcome and undesired outcomes. If this were a referendum on say children's rights would you feel the same? IMO a referendum is important and needs to be treated as such as we are applying changes to our constitution.

Like others I'd suggest looking at the issues and balance that against your unhappiness and that old chestnut "your civic duty". That way at least you'll give yourself an honest answer.

Mario007

RobAMerc wrote: »

That's a good point to be fair, but my point is none of these guys can be trusted - and I was always told not to sign anything I didn't understand or the people asking me to sign were untrustworthy.

Politicians are untrustworthy as highlighted by O'Donoghue and the non actions of his colleagues - I will vote NO.

I will not change this opinion unless he is removed from the Dail - simple as.

No is status quo - abstaining means a vote less for the No

To be honest abstaining can mean a vote less for yes or no. I would urge you to try and check out the non-government groups that are out there looking for votes on lisbon treaty, be they pro or anti the treaty. A good starting point would be Ireland for Europe, COIR, Generation Yes and Libertas(I believe I balanced out my list so that you have 2 pro and 2 anti groups in there).

With regards to not signing anything that is given to you by untrustworthy people I have to points to add. Once again it's almost as if SF asked you to sign for no, and you can't trust them either. And the second point is this is European Treaty, negotiated by 27 different governments. I believe the amount of trustworthy people in these governments surpasses the amount of untrustworthy people here in Ireland

EDIT: Scrath Libertas, they don't actually have policies. So a better group would be UKIP, though they are political but not a proper party here in Ireland.

Het-Field

Voting to flip oof the Government is irrelevant.

We got our chance at local level, and will most certainly get our chance at a general election within the next 2 3/4 years. Blame them when they seek to put elected representatives onto controlling bodies.

ei.sdraob

Mario007 wrote: »

and Libertas(I believe I balanced out my list so that you have 2 pro and 2 anti groups in there).

@mario


Libertas still dont have any policy documents on anything (yes 3 months after euro elections and a year after first referendum)

they invent policies as they go

point him to UKIPs literature since they are not in government in Ireland or represent anyone in Ireland for that matter > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055683358

little feat

Mario007 wrote: »

SF's criticism of O'Donoghue was almost non-existent and they are the main group on the 'no' side. So following your reasoning you should abstain from the vote because all off the parties involved are just incompetent fools(which they really are to be honest)

SF the main group on the NO side? SF are practically invisible, COIR are now the main group on the NO side as far as I can see.

dudara

If you do not know about the Lisbon Treaty, then the right thing to to is abstain.

You're being asked to vote on Lisbon, NOTHING ELSE.

If you vote for any other reason, then you are adding noise to the real vote, and masking the voices of the people who actually have an opinion on Lisbon.

Please separate your feelings about the government etc from the matter at hand.

Mario007

ei.sdraob wrote: »

@mario


Libertas still dont have any policy documents on anything (yes 3 months after euro elections and a year after first referendum)

they invent policies as they go

point him to UKIPs literature since they are not in government in Ireland or represent anyone in Ireland for that matter > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055683358

cool I totally forgot that the libertas website is pretty much full of half truths, exaggerations and lies and no policies. thanks for pointing out the UKIP literature, i'll inculde that in my edited post

ei.sdraob

little feat wrote: »

SF the main group on the NO side? SF are practically invisible, COIR are now the main group on the NO side as far as I can see.

he was referring to organisations which are not in government

that rules SF out

anyways SFs posters are identical to Coirs and try to spread the same fud

P. Breathnach

ei.sdraob wrote: »

he was referring to organisations which are not in government

that rules SF out...

Sinn Féin are not in government.

ei.sdraob

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Sinn Féin are not in government.

i should have been clearer, SF run for local and national elections, Libertas havent (are they planning to?)