puppies being alone

liger

Hi,

I've been considering getting a pup for a while now, but sometimes i need to work awkward hours and i'd worry about leaving the pup alone for a while for obvious reasons. Would a pup be better if there was another pup with it while i was at work or would there just be 2 pups with the same left alone issues???



Thanks

Lemlin

liger wrote: »

Hi,

I've been considering getting a pup for a while now, but sometimes i need to work awkward hours and i'd worry about leaving the pup alone for a while for obvious reasons. Would a pup be better if there was another pup with it while i was at work or would there just be 2 pups with the same left alone issues???



Thanks

2 pups would get on alot better but you could have issues trying to train them. They could end up just messing with each other and not taking any notice of you when you try to train them.

2 pups together also tend to get up to ten times more mischief than one pup on its own!

How long will you be away each day?

You could get a breed which doesn't mind being left on its own for a while. I'm not sure what breeds are like that but I'd imagine there are some.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

You could get a breed which doesn't mind being left on its own for a while. I'm not sure what breeds are like that but I'd imagine there are some.

All credit to a vivid imagination ...but there is no such thing as a breed of dog "designed" to do well on its own.

@OP

If you absolutely have to have a dog, I would strongly advise against getting a pup. Pups need intensive care and training early in life in order to turn out as the type of dog you enjoy living with. Mistakes/ommissions made in the early stages (due to lack of time) will sometimes only manifest themselves later in life and will be very hard to impossible to erradicate then.

I would recommend getting an older dog from a shelter that has a proven history of being alone at times and can cope with it.

Sigma Force

Agree with Peasant and also two pups are twice the work they'll miss you twice as much eventhough they are company for each other it's not the same as having their owner there.

I'm here a heck of a lot and have a pup so don't know how people cope when they are working awkward hours. Of course dogs get used to a routine but for young pups you really can't be gone long and for the first few months they might not let you out of their sight. Gets easier as they get older but I still don't leave ours for more than 3 hours at a time (and that's rare enough).

Even the adult dogs aren't left for long unless we're gone a good while then the neighbours help us out there.

Peasants idea of an older dog is a good one or perhaps consider hiring a reliable dog walker.

cruizer101

peasant wrote: »

All credit to a vivid imagination ...but there is no such thing as a breed of dog "designed" to do well on its own.

I'm no expert on this so don't take my word as gospel, but i have heard that in general hounds are more aloof and can cope better with being alone than some other breeds, maybe others can comment on this.

That said a puppy really does need attention so you would probably be best getting an older dog.

peasant

cruizer101 wrote: »

I'm no expert on this so don't take my word as gospel, but i have heard that in general hounds are more aloof and can cope better with being alone than some other breeds, maybe others can comment on this.

Certain breeds being more aloof, independent or non-clingy than others is one thing ...a dog that doesn't mind being left alone quite another.

Dogs are pack animals, all their instincts and behaviours are shaped around being members of a group and interacting with that group ...they just don't do well being on their own.

They can cope fairly well with a few hours on their own here and there (some individuals better than others) but once their alone time regularly goes over a certain percentage, they suffer both physically as well as psychologically.

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

All credit to a vivid imagination ...but there is no such thing as a breed of dog "designed" to do well on its own.

Perhaps I described that poorly. I just meant that the OP should steer away from certain breeds, such as cockers or beagles, that are known to suffer separation anxiety easier than others.

I heard Stanley Coren on the radio recently (man who did alot of dog research) and he said a Bulldog is a breed like I am talking about - they tend to be fairly lazy and don't need as much attention.

From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog

A bulldog is suitable for houses as well as apartments due to their size. Most bulldogs are content to walk at most half a mile and thus may suit a less-active person. They are not excitable, seldom bark, and are easily trainable as compared with many other breeds.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

I heard Stanley Coren on the radio recently (man who did alot of dog research) and he said a Bulldog is a breed like I am talking about - they tend to be fairly lazy and don't need as much attention.

just to clarify ...there is a difference between having to provide entertainment/activities for your dog and just being there for it.

Many a dog (breed) is quite happy to just lounge around all day and pretty much do feck all bar going for a bit of a walk ...as long as it knows that it isn't alone, not separated from its group.

Take the same lazy and relaxed dog and leave it alone (inside or outside, doesn't matter) for long periods every day and it will suffer. Some suffer quietly, others go berserk, others again become destructive ...but none take it well.

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

just to clarify ...there is a difference between having to provide entertainment/activities for your dog and just being there for it.

Many a dog (breed) is quite happy to just lounge around all day and pretty much do feck all bar going for a bit of a walk ...as long as it knows that it isn't alone, not separated from its group.

Take the same lazy and relaxed dog and leave it alone (inside or outside, doesn't matter) for long periods every day and it will suffer. Some suffer quietly, others go berserk, others again become destructive ...but none take it well.

Have you any research to prove this?

I'm not trying to argue but when Coren spoke he talked about how some breeds are more suitable to being left to their own devices than others while people are at work - he spent 3 years researching the topic and has wrote a manuscript on it recognised all over the world.

His argument was that more active working dogs, such as a rottweiler or german shepherd, were bred for a particular task and require attention or regular exercise and therefore a breed like a bulldog was a dog which could be left on its own more easily.

He said that people should be careful to pick the dog that suits them. He joked that he had a Beagle because his grandkids could pull its ears and five minutes later it wouldn't even remember having its ear pulled as it wouldn't be one of the brighter dogs! (his joke not mine so sorry to any Beagle owners in advance).

liger

thanks folks.

Most of the time i'm gone 5am but the gf isnt gone till 10 and then i'm home around 3 or i'm there till 2pm or 3pm and the gf is home at 5pm or 6pm but there are some days i'm out at 9am and not back till 9pm and even though they are not very frequent i of course would be concerned about a pup or pups alone.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

Have you any research to prove this?

This doesn't need research.

Of course there are differences betweeen breeds, but the dog as such is a social animal and needs to be surrounded by tis group (be that people or other dogs) to be happy. Keeping a(ny) dog in solitude for a large amount of time, all the time, is just not right.

But from what the OP has said, the dog being alone for long would be the exception rahter than the norm, so an older dog that is used to being alone might just work.

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

This doesn't need research.

Of course there are differences betweeen breeds, but the dog as such is a social animal and needs to be surrounded by tis group (be that people or other dogs) to be happy. Keeping a(ny) dog in solitude for a large amount of time, all the time, is just not right.

But from what the OP has said, the dog being alone for long would be the exception rahter than the norm, so an older dog that is used to being alone might just work.

peasant wrote: »

This doesn't need research.

Of course there are differences betweeen breeds, but the dog as such is a social animal and needs to be surrounded by tis group (be that people or other dogs) to be happy. Keeping a(ny) dog in solitude for a large amount of time, all the time, is just not right.

But from what the OP has said, the dog being alone for long would be the exception rahter than the norm, so an older dog that is used to being alone might just work.

Tbh I think any posts like this do need to cite research. I'm amazed at the amount of people who have an opinion on here and are happy to say its from their experience or in their opinion. Different people have different experiences though.

For example, on another thread I read yesterday, someone posted this about letting dogs out during the day in the countryside:

EDIT: Just saw your post about leaving the dog out to roam when you move out the country because she never wanders. You think there are no dog thiefs out the country?!?! Not to mention livestock, cars (major/minor road status means nothing) etc. She could be shot for wandering onto farmers land, knocked down on a road, or even your lane unless a gate is up there are so many things wrong with letting your dog wander. I'm out of this thread now as I don't want to say something which will get me a banning. Best of luck to you and your dog.

I know plenty of people who leave their dog out in the countryside during the day and have no problems. I grew up in a home where we always had at least two terriers out and about around the farm, if not more. We never had any problems with any wandering or going too far. We still have one terrier at my homeplace which is left out to this day and walks around as he pleases. I couldn't reply on the thread as it was locked.

In your opinion keeping a dog in solitude for long periods is wrong. It's also wrong IMO tbh but there are plenty of people who would tell you that they only spend maybe two hours a day with their dog and feel they have a well rounded, friendly pet.

I have a friend who has six to seven dogs. They are for hunting. The most attention they get is an hour's hunting most days and then a large hunt (such as a fox hunt) at the weekend. He's never had any problem with any of his dogs. And some of them are kept in solitude.

I think people on here need to be aware that different people have different experiences of dogs and what is right or wrong for dogs. So, unless you can cite research to prove otherwise, I think you should be saying that anything is in your own opinion.

I'm not emaning to pick an argument with you but just getting something off my chest about the board tbh. Might start another topic on it anyway.

To the OP, I certainly think you're in a fine position to get a pup IMO. From what you say you or your partner will be there alot so the pup will be fine. It sounds like the most the dog will be left for is 5 hours which isn't long if you can get the pup into a routine of sleeping around then. You can buy fairly large exercise cage pens in pet shops now for less than 100e so one of those might suit for when the pup is left alone.

I owner a Cocker which is actually a breed I have been told suffer from separation anxiety alot. My dog is left for about 8 hours a day but seems fine. She gets plenty of attention in the evenings and a walk in the morning for a half hour and in the evening for an hour. She also gets games of fetch etc. which help tire her out also I'd imagine. I'm also a great believer in getting her to swim!

Even at the weekend, I notice she tends to sleep from 9 until 5, the hours she is left so I think she is in a routine now. I make sure she is left Kong toys every day and also has her toys to play with. I do plan to get a second dog to keep her company but its just not an option at the moment.

peasant

sorry for dragging this off topic


Lemlin ...no offence ...but do you know what "research" actually means?

Lemlin wrote: »

Tbh I think any posts like this do need to cite research. I'm amazed at the amount of people who have an opinion on here and are happy to say its from their experience or in their opinion. Different people have different experiences though.


I know plenty of people who leave their dog out in the countryside during the day and have no problems. I grew up in a home where we always had at least two terriers out and about around the farm, if not more. We never had any problems with any wandering or going too far. We still have one terrier at my homeplace which is left out to this day and walks around as he pleases. I couldn't reply on the thread as it was locked.

That's not research ...those are examples, your personal experience.

Research would be statistics for the numbers of dogs that get killed on the road every year, the numbers of dogs that get shot by farmers every year because they're straying, the numbers of dogs that end up in pounds because they were found wandering.
Fortunately I'm one of those people who still have a job so I don't have time to do a proper research on these figures (they're not exactly easy to come by) ...but I think we can both agree that the figure would be significantly higher than your two or three terriers that were no trouble.
To conclude from your own dogs and some of your neighbours' that all dogs are fine when left uncontained and to encourage others not to contain their dogs on this basic is quite frankly irresponsible.


But you don't have to take my word for it.
Have a look at the Welsh code of practice for the Welsh animal welfare act.
I'd like to particularly point out page 4 when it comes to containment and page 7 when it comes to dogs' social needs and leaving it alone.

Download the document from here http://wales.gov.uk/topics/environmentcountryside/ahw/animalwelfare/pets/codesofpractice/081205summarycodeofpractdogs/?lang=en

It's short and sweet and easy to read.

jen_23

liger wrote: »

thanks folks.

Most of the time i'm gone 5am but the gf isnt gone till 10 and then i'm home around 3 or i'm there till 2pm or 3pm and the gf is home at 5pm or 6pm but there are some days i'm out at 9am and not back till 9pm and even though they are not very frequent i of course would be concerned about a pup or pups alone.

Hi Liger,

So your saying the pup usually would be alone for maybe 5/6 hours. I think you could manage a pup no problem!

I got a pup 10 weeks ago and changed my working hours so he's on his own for 5/6 hours of the day too and he does fine.
He gets heaps of attention and training when I get home and he doesn't seemt o mind being alone for the few hours. I just make sure he has plenty of water and toys to keep him company. Kongs are quite good esp the puppy teething ones.

I will eventually have to change my hours back to normal (mainly as I'm finishing my masters and will have to get a real job where the hours might not be so flexible) after christmas.

When that happens I'm planning to get a dog walker to come and take him for an hour and to feed him for me and on odd days a family member might take him for a bit. (that could be an idea for your long days )

Most people have to work regular hours and get puppies so the way I see it if they can do it and not neglect a puppy we all can do it just as well


Can I ask what kind of puppy you are thinking of getting?

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

sorry for dragging this off topic


Lemlin ...no offence ...but do you know what "research" actually means?




That's not research ...those are examples, your personal experience.

Research would be statistics for the numbers of dogs that get killed on the road every year, the numbers of dogs that get shot by farmers every year because they're straying, the numbers of dogs that end up in pounds because they were found wandering.
Fortunately I'm one of those people who still have a job so I don't have time to do a proper research on these figures (they're not exactly easy to come by) ...but I think we can both agree that the figure would be significantly higher than your two or three terriers that were no trouble.
To conclude from your own dogs and some of your neighbours' that all dogs are fine when left uncontained and to encourage others not to contain their dogs on this basic is quite frankly irresponsible.


But you don't have to take my word for it.
Have a look at the Welsh code of practice for the Welsh animal welfare act.
I'd like to particularly point out page 4 when it comes to containment and page 7 when it comes to dogs' social needs and leaving it alone.

Download the document from here http://wales.gov.uk/topics/environmentcountryside/ahw/animalwelfare/pets/codesofpractice/081205summarycodeofpractdogs/?lang=en

It's short and sweet and easy to read.

I never said the dogs at my homeplace were research. I said Stanley Coren has done research about dogs and I have cited it above. I then asked you for research to prove your opinion or else to mention that it is your own opinion you are expressing.

I was using the example of my experiences with leaving dogs to "wander" around homeplaces to show how I and another user have different experiences but that we should both respect each other's.

My point, which seems to have gone over your head, is that different people have different experiences and opinions of dogs and how they should be treated. What I am saying is that we all need to be respectful of each other's and realise that other people may have different views to us, which doesn't make their opinion wrong IMO.

I can't get into the link you have posted here in work but will look at it again from my home laptop. Perhaps you could post the contents as a quote if you want me to read now.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

My point, which seems to have gone over your head, is that different people have different experiences and opinions of dogs and how they should be treated. What I am saying is that we all need to be respectful of each other's and realise that other people may have different views to us, which doesn't make their opinion wrong IMO.

I'm all for being respectful towards each other, but there is a borderline beyond which others' views and opinions are beyond respectful consideration and that is breaches of animal welfare.
You may well be entitled to hold an opinion or a view, but if that view or opinion goes against the fundamental principles of animal welfare then I'll call you up on it, and yes, I will call it "wrong".

Just because it is your view or opinion that dogs needn't necessarily be contained and that in your view or opinion it is ok to keep them solitary for long periods of time doesn't make it right ...it's wrong.

Whole governements have accepted and written it into law that it is against the principles of animal welfare to leave dogs uncontained and/or alone for long periods of time ...maybe it's you who needs to do the re-thinking.

As for the "research" of that Coren fella ...please read my post in the thread.

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

I'm all for being respectful towards each other, but there is a borderline beyond which others' views and opinions are beyond respectful consideration and that is breaches of animal welfare.
You may well be entitled to hold an opinion or a view, but if that view or opinion goes against the fundamental principles of animal welfare then I'll call you up on it, and yes, I will call it "wrong".

Just because it is your view or opinion that dogs needn't necessarily be contained and that in your view or opinion it is ok to keep them solitary for long periods of time doesn't make it right ...it's wrong.

Whole governements have accepted and written it into law that it is against the principles of animal welfare to leave dogs uncontained and/or alone for long periods of time ...maybe it's you who needs to do the re-thinking.

As for the "research" of that Coren fella ...please read my post in the thread.

peasant wrote: »

I'm all for being respectful towards each other, but there is a borderline beyond which others' views and opinions are beyond respectful consideration and that is breaches of animal welfare.
You may well be entitled to hold an opinion or a view, but if that view or opinion goes against the fundamental principles of animal welfare then I'll call you up on it, and yes, I will call it "wrong".

Just because it is your view or opinion that dogs needn't necessarily be contained and that in your view or opinion it is ok to keep them solitary for long periods of time doesn't make it right ...it's wrong.

Whole governements have accepted and written it into law that it is against the principles of animal welfare to leave dogs uncontained and/or alone for long periods of time ...maybe it's you who needs to do the re-thinking.

As for the "research" of that Coren fella ...please read my post in the thread.

Have you read any of my posts? I pointed out in it that I do not find it fine to keep pets solitary for long periods yet you still say:

Just because it is your view or opinion that dogs needn't necessarily be contained and that in your view or opinion it is ok to keep them solitary for long periods of time doesn't make it right ...it's wrong.

From my posts above:

In your opinion keeping a dog in solitude for long periods is wrong. It's also wrong IMO tbh but there are plenty of people who would tell you that they only spend maybe two hours a day with their dog and feel they have a well rounded, friendly pet.

So if you read my posts you would see I actually agree with you and have never said I think dogs should be kept solitary.

There's really no point debating with you because you mention yourself "You may well be entitled to hold an opinion or a view, but if that view or opinion goes against the fundamental principles of animal welfare then I'll call you up on it, and yes, I will call it "wrong".".

The problem here is that you are not willing to accept that some people's fundamental principles of animal welfare are different to others.

And how exactly is it wrong to allow a pet to move around the area of where they live themselves? I'd think its a downright better than sticking a pet in a kennel or run where it is stuck to a certain area.

Our pets moved around the farm and therefore were able to enjoy the company of all of us. You'd prefer to keep them locked up in a run somewhere would you? I know which I think is the better animal welfare.

We were away from any road which would cause them danger. We owned the land immediately around the farm and they never went further than it. So what's the issue there? How is there welfare harmed by not being "contained"?

Maybe I do need to rethink but at least I'm willing to accept the views of others and am open to other opinions, unlike yourself.

And, as for the "Coren fella", have a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Coren

I'd imagine a damn sight more people read and agree with his views than read or agree with yours.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

The problem here is that you are not willing to accept that some people's fundamental principles of animal welfare are different to others.

There is only one fundamental principle of animal welfare and that is dictated by the animal itself. Its traits, its characteristics, its physical and social needs dictate what is good and what is bad for the animal.

Details of that (like the length of time you can leave it alone for, for example) are open to debate, interpretation and different individual circumstances ...but the fundamental principle that a dog is a social animal and not made for a solitary existence still stands. And it stands irrevocably, no matter how many millions of people say or wish otherwise.

The basics of the make-up, characteristics and needs of animals just aren't debatable ...they just ARE.

Animal welfare has to recognise these basics and strive to protect them. If we want to keep animals we have to be responsible for them. This means first and foremost to recognise them for what they are and for what they can and can't do.

Our own expectations of what we want them to be have to stand back behind what they actually are.

Thats' animal welfare.

It's not a question for people to agree or disagree with, nothing to have an opinion on even ...it's a fact, something we simply have to accept.

getz

Lemlin wrote: »

Perhaps I described that poorly. I just meant that the OP should steer away from certain breeds, such as cockers or beagles, that are known to suffer separation anxiety easier than others.

I heard Stanley Coren on the radio recently (man who did alot of dog research) and he said a Bulldog is a breed like I am talking about - they tend to be fairly lazy and don't need as much attention.

From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldog

i have had a few bullies and as puppies they are just a destructive as any other puppy ,with a young dog it will help [when leaving it alone]to leave on the radio/tv,or even at night put a old ticking clock in a sock,the reasoning behind this is the ticking sounds like his mums heart beat,and the pup will cuddle up to it

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

There is only one fundamental principle of animal welfare and that is dictated by the animal itself. Its traits, its characteristics, its physical and social needs dictate what is good and what is bad for the animal.

Details of that (like the length of time you can leave it alone for, for example) are open to debate, interpretation and different individual circumstances ...but the fundamental principle that a dog is a social animal and not made for a solitary existence still stands. And it stands irrevocably, no matter how many millions of people say or wish otherwise.

The basics of the make-up, characteristics and needs of animals just aren't debatable ...they just ARE.

Animal welfare has to recognise these basics and strive to protect them. If we want to keep animals we have to be responsible for them. This means first and foremost to recognise them for what they are and for what they can and can't do.

Our own expectations of what we want them to be have to stand back behind what they actually are.

Thats' animal welfare.

It's not a question for people to agree or disagree with, nothing to have an opinion on even ...it's a fact, something we simply have to accept.

So why did you say this a couple of posts ago to then change your mind above:

Just because it is your view or opinion that dogs needn't necessarily be contained and that in your view or opinion it is ok to keep them solitary for long periods of time doesn't make it right ...it's wrong.

You're now saying the dog decides yet you initially said it was unfair not to contain a dog?

I'm getting a bit confused. One minute you are saying one thing and the next you are changing it. You also conveniently failed to answer any of my questions in my previous post.

You've actually gone full circle now and agree with my points IMO.

I started saying certain breeds are more suited to being left than others. You disagreed. I then came back saying that people's opinions on dogs differ as people have different experience's of dogs. And you've now said:

Its traits, its characteristics, its physical and social needs dictate what is good and what is bad for the animal.

And what do most of the traits, characteristics, physical and social needs of a dog come from - its breed.

Checkmate I believe.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

I'm getting a bit confused. One minute you are saying one thing and the next you are changing it. You also conveniently failed to answer any of my questions in my previous post.

Look ...I'm putting quite some effort into my posts, writing them as clearly as possible. Please return the favour and read them in the same manner. I did not contradict myself.


To clear up one issue where the misunderstanding may come from:

Containment...by this I mean measures to prevent the dog from wandering off, possibly injuring itself or others.
I do not mean to stick it into a cage and just leave it there.

Our dogs for example are contained within 1/2 acre of fenced off area. Within that, they can pretty much do whatever they like ...but they cannot run off.

Not everybody has the luxury of 1/2 acre just for their dog, but everybody should undertake measures to prevent the dog from running off while at the same time give it adequate room.
So, no fence at all is just as bad as a "run" the size of a shoebox ...the best solution for the welfare of the dog lies somewhere inbetween.

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

And what do most of the traits, characteristics, physical and social needs of a dog come from - its breed.

Checkmate I believe.

I don't play chess

The basic traits, characteristics, physical and social needs of a dog come from ...it being a dog.

A dog, is a dog, is a dog ...the basic needs apply to them all in the same way, regardless of breed.

Some individual traits of different types may need individualised approaches on minor details (e.g the necessary excercise for a husky vs a bulldog) ...but, as in our example, the fact that they are social and not solitary animals applies to them all.

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

Look ...I'm putting quite some effort into my posts, writing them as clearly as possible. Please return the favour and read them in the same manner. I did not contradict myself.


To clear up one issue where the misunderstanding may come from:

Containment...by this I mean measures to prevent the dog from wandering off, possibly injuring itself or others.
I do not mean to stick it into a cage and just leave it there.

Our dogs for example are contained within 1/2 acre of fenced off area. Within that, they can pretty much do whatever they like ...but they cannot run off.

Not everybody has the luxury of 1/2 acre just for their dog, but everybody should undertake measures to prevent the dog from running off while at the same time give it adequate room.
So, no fence at all is just as bad as a "run" the size of a shoebox ...the best solution for the welfare of the dog lies somewhere inbetween.

I am reading your posts quite clearly. You failed to answer my question above though where I asked if you read mine? You have already attributed opinions to me that I have clearly said are not my opinions.

And so back to the containment, why exactly would you need to prevent measures to stop a dog running off if it has a proven record of never taking off? We have had terriers at my home for decades now and none have ever run off or been injured or shot etc. So why provide a solution to a problem that isn't there? There are other dogs at our home which may take off so they are kept in runs but why lock up a terrier who won't?

I also know other people who allow their dog to stay around their home and have never had any issue or problem. Are you saying all these people are not providing welfare for their dog because they choose to allow it to interact with the family as it pleases rather than contain it, no matter what the size of the fencing or area?

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

I don't play chess

The basic traits, characteristics, physical and social needs of a dog come from ...it being a dog.

A dog, is a dog, is a dog ...the basic needs apply to them all in the same way, regardless of breed.

Some individual traits of different types may need individualised approaches on minor details (e.g the necessary excercise for a husky vs a bulldog) ...but, as in our example, the fact that they are social and not solitary animals applies to them all.

I'd disagree again. I would say what you are calling an individual trait is actually a basic trait of all dogs.

For example, would you say the basic physical traits of a pug and a german shepherd are the same because they are both dogs? They are both dogs but I sure as hell wouldn't have a pug as a guard dog.

Different breeds are different breeds because the traits differ. What you are saying is like saying a whale and a monkey are the same because they are both mammals. There are breeds of dogs because the traits can differ so much.

And certain dogs have the trait that they are better at being left for periods on their own. I'm not saying dogs should be left for hours on end but some do cope better than others which is why certain breeds are listed as suffering "separation anxiety" and certain others aren't.

That's the point I made at the start and a point which I still stick to. I've spoken to a dog behaviourist on the issue also and they gave me a list of certain breeds that are suited to mixing with other breeds better eg. gundogs and certain breeds that cope better with being on their own eg. bulldogs. I spoke to the behaviourist when thinking of getting a second dog myself and she gave us advice on what breed to get that would be good with a child and mix well with our cocker.

Have you any qualifications to back up what you are saying?

peasant

Lemlin wrote: »

why exactly would you need to prevent measures to stop a dog running off if it has a proven record of never taking off ?

So far I haven't died yet ...therefore I must conclude that I will live forever


Because it is a dog and it is in their nature to run off ...even if your particular dog hasn't done so yet. Containing the dog is a sensible precaution to take.

And to take it one step further ...it is up to your judgement and your conscience if you let your dogs in your circumstances run free. There is a chance that with acres of land available the dog will actually never run away ...but it's on your head if it does and comes to harm.

But it is highly irresponsible to imply to others that they need not contain their animals ...every circumstance is different and the only way to be sure that the dog doesn't run off is to have a proper fence.


And that's me done with dragging this thread off topic

Lemlin

peasant wrote: »

So far I haven't died yet ...therefore I must conclude that I will live forever


Because it is a dog and it is in their nature to run off ...even if your particular dog hasn't done so yet. Containing the dog is a sensible precaution to take.

And to take it one step further ...it is up to your judgement and your conscience if you let your dogs in your circumstances run free. There is a chance that with acres of land available the dog will actually never run away ...but it's on your head if it does and comes to harm.

But it is highly irresponsible to imply to others that they need not contain their animals ...every circumstance is different and the only way to be sure that the dog doesn't run off is to have a proper fence.


And that's me done with dragging this thread off topic

If it is in their nature to run off then why have none of the terriers run off? I really find it amazing that you are unwilling to accept that other people can have different experiences with dogs than you can.

Just because your dog exhibits one behaviour or one breed does, doesn't mean all dogs do. That's why there are dog behaviourists who comment on topics like this all the time.

Yes it is on my family's head but seeing as none of the dogs have done it in the nearly 3 decades we've been living at that farm I can't see the problem rearing its head in the morning

I haven't implied to anyone that they don't need to contain their dog. I live in an estate at the minute and wouldn't dream of letting my dog out of the back yard unless she is supervised.

What I am saying is that different dogs, circumstances, breeds etc. lead to different precautions, requirements etc. Not all dogs can be tarred with the same brush.

Yes, you've failed to answer alot of the questions I've asked and just ignore them so off you toddle...