American expat with loads of primary school questions

mimix3

hi I'm an American expat living here in Dublin for 1.5 years now with my husband and our 20 month old son. I have an 8 year old (9 in january) daughter that lives the school year in the US with her dad. We have switched arrangements and she will be coming here to live with us in January. She attends 3rd grade and is a fairly good student.
I have no clue about the irish education system. All i have been able to deduct is that she would be in 3rd grade here too? but i am unsure what schools(s) are good. An all girls school or a mixed one? We are Catholic and she attends a catholic school in the US. My husband prefers a non demon school or a private school, but i have no clue about the public school system here to make this choice. We live in dublin 7 (like half a block from dublin 1) and philsboro is the closest main road. Does anyone have any school recommendations for that area? What do i need to enroll her in school here? What is the difference between public and private school here? Is there a bus system for public schools? Are private schools all 'boarding' schools? sorry if i'm in the wrong forum or if i ask too many questions (believe me, i have more) i just want to do the best for my baby. Thank you so very much.

Mimi

Daisy Dalzer

Hi there
Your daughter will more than likely need to go into third class here in Ireland. I don't have any recommendations about particular schools in your area but hopefully I can explain the system a little for you.

In Ireland there are almost no private primary level schools (plenty at second level however) so almost all children under 12 attend 'national schools' which are funded by the state. All national schools have a 'patron' which determines the ethos of the school.
98% of national schools are under the patronage of the Catholic Church- there will be many of these in your area. Some Catholic schools will be single sex, others will be mixed.
There are a certain amount of schools under the patronage of the Church of Ireland- I'm not sure how many in close proximity to you.
There are 56 Educate Together schools which are multi-denominational and teach children about religions but don't provide specific instruction on individual ones (this happens outside of school hours if parents wish). I know there is an ET school in Dublin 7. All ET school are co-educational.
There are a number of Gaelscoils where all education is through the medium of the Irish language- these schools are often Catholic in ethos but there are some multi-denominational.
There are a couple of schools which have a Muslim ethos and I think one school with a Jewish ethos.

Primary education is 'free' although parents are always asked for 'voluntary' contributions and must pay for school material as the school are chronically underfunded by the state. Fundraising is a constant factor for all national schools.

To enrol in a particular school you should contact them and ask what procedures they have in place. All schools are obliged to have an enrolment policy. An Educate Together school has a 'first come first served' policy which means you should get a childs name down on the list as early as possible to gain a place.
A Catholic school may (or may not) require a baptismal cert, or may take children from a catchment area first.

There is a bus system for transport to school but it is dependent on what school you choose or how far you live away from the school. When you contact a school about enrolling your children they should be able to advise you on this.

There are some private boarding schools but there are also many private day schools. Majority are for second level students however.

To find schools in your area visit www.schooldays.ie and click on
Finding a primary school.. this allows you to type in Dublin 7 /1 etc and gives contact details (and some websites) or schools in your area.

Hope this is of some help.

mimix3

wow thank you so much for replying to my questions. It helps a lot!! I will be checking out the link you left for me to find a school in my area.

I like to get things done ahead of time and prepare early. I know i have enough time till she gets here but I want to make sure everything is set

I don't know if you can answer or not but are class sizes big or small here? in the US public school class size is about 25-30 to one teacher. my daughter's current school has 15 children in her class, so i am hoping that she won't be overwhelmed by a large class and feel lost.

As for the contributions and fund raisers the schools do here, it's exactly the same in the US. They have fund raisers and ask for donations every month, so we're used to that.

I'm wondering if you can tell me a little more about the ET schools??

thank you so much again for replying. it is sooooo appreciated!!

kindest regards,
Mimi

Daisy Dalzer

Re Class sizes.. Mainstream teachers are currently allocated by the Department on Education at 28 children per 1 teachers... (Before last years budget it was 27:1 but these recessionary times have let to an increase since September this year). The average class size would be around 30 children as schools must make sure there have a cushion of few extra students so they don't loose a teacher if any children move schools. Some schools have disadvantaged status (DEIS) and have smaller class sizes. There are probably some in your area but this is something you could ask when you contact individual schools. As well as mainstream teachers a national school would also have Learning support, Resource and English as an Additional Language teachers depending on the needs of the pupils.

Re: Educate Together schools. ET schools are national schools and children are taught the national curriculum. However instead of having religious instruction in a particular denomination ET schools teach their "Learn Together" ethical curriculum which focuses on Moral & Spirituality, Belief Systems, Equality and Justice and Ethics and the Environment. The motto of ET schools is 'No child an outsider'. The schools have been around for 30 years and it is a growing sector. The schools are set up by groups of interested parents with the help of the ET office. One of the principles of ET is that they are democratically run. Their website has lots of information www.educatetogether.ie

Johnnyjump

I went to a regular primary school, as did all my friends and I would recommend a regular primary school any day.

mimix3

thank you for your replies. i have found a couple of schools and have contacted them, again i think you and have a great week

west side kid

mimix3 wrote: »

thank you for your replies. i have found a couple of schools and have contacted them, again i think you and have a great week

Hello.

I just moved here as well abt a year ago.

Have lived in a few other countries including the US in a big inner-city and in continental Europe and the UK.

No offence - but I think the primary school system here is subpar compared to Ireland's peers. Class sizes are huge - especially relative to what other countries do for younger children.

This is not to dispute the fact that there are many great teachers and schools here.

My sisters daughter is in a class of 34. If you live in a new areas - chances are that the education department hasn't planned ahead and there won't be enough places or your kids will be bunged into a huge class in a prefab.

By contrast, where I lived in Germany the average class size in early primary school was 15:1 and the _legal maximum_ was 19. In inner-city Chicago, the average was 22:1.

If you're a foreigner, your child will also have to deal with having a large period of time devoted to learning Irish language - which in itself will be an adjustment issue. There are great cultural and patriotic reasons for this and so so - but just something you face as a foreigner.

The system is relatively egalatarian - you won't find the really bad dire schools with violence, etc you see in, say, the US inner cities. Your child will never be in danger and will acquire literacy/numeracy, etc. But by the same token, there are no magnet or gifted programs and schools don't cater to advanced learners.

There's also a distinct lack of accountability in the system- unlike almost every country - the Irish system doesn't make public data on the performance of various schools. (at the behest of unions).

Private schools are relatively cheap in Ireland - compare to other places - and there are some international options. But these are likely more in South Dublin and Wicklow.

http://www.aijs.info/index.php

The other sites (e.g. educate together, schooldays etc) are good...

mimix3

ok i'm confused no one told me they would be teaching gaelic in the schools. all the schools teach gaelic????

fasterkitten

Yes. All schools teach Irish.

the_syco

Most of the boarding scools take in "day students" if they live not to far away.

mimix3

thank you so much. while i understand that the irish want their children to learn their language (i'm colombian/american and my children speak spanish as well as english) but i just don't feel like it's important to my daughter's education to learn the irish language. i am a bit relieved that she would sit out of the class, i hope she could do other work during that time.
thank each of you for your responses, this is one of the things i love living in ireland, the irish people are so kind and helpful. i've travelled a lot and i have never met nicer people. thank again!

fasterkitten

mimix3 wrote: »

thank you so much. while i understand that the irish want their children to learn their language (i'm colombian/american and my children speak spanish as well as english) but i just don't feel like it's important to my daughter's education to learn the irish language. i am a bit relieved that she would sit out of the class, i hope she could do other work during that time.
thank each of you for your responses, this is one of the things i love living in ireland, the irish people are so kind and helpful. i've travelled a lot and i have never met nicer people. thank again!

It's a pity you feel that way if you're hoping to educate her in the Irish system and live in Irish society

rainbowtrout

mimix3 wrote: »

ok i'm confused no one told me they would be teaching gaelic in the schools. all the schools teach gaelic????

Both Irish and English are the official languages in use in this country so both are taught right up until Leaving Cert (approx 17 years old). Children over a certain age who move to Ireland do not have to learn Irish, I have a feeling that age is 11 though. I wouldn't worry about it too much, she won't have the same apathy towards it as many Irish students do, so she will probably just get on with it and catch up in no time.

A friend of mine is American born and moved over here when she was 8 or 9 (some time ago now) and thought it was great fun to be able to learn a 'foreign language' at school. If you treat it as such, it shouldn't be a problem

mimix3

fasterkitten wrote: »

It's a pity you feel that way if you're hoping to educate her in the Irish system and live in Irish society

well my daughter has to go to school and we currently live here in ireland. we will be here 4 years. and again i love ireland and the irish people but don't feel it necessary for her to learn the irish language. i won't keep her out of school because of it but didn't know it would be part of the education. if it is mandatory, i'm sure she will do fine. she is a good student and she will do what she must

teachergirl

Mimix3 she will have no problem adjusting to learning Irish at that level and I would strongly recommend she doesn't sit out for Irish lessons - I myself went to school in the North of Ireland, where Irish is not taught in primary school and we didn't have to take it on to leaving age in secondary. This means I've had to go back and learn from the beginning now as I must be able to teach Irish if I'm to work in Irish schools. There are a few other jobs like this in Ireland, so probably best for future career opportunities.

Don't be afraid to ask people in your neighbourhoods advice on schools and goodluck! I'm sure everything will go well!

E.T.

I'm an Irish teacher who has experience of teaching in a few other countries and I think that the "lack of accountability" mentioned in a post above is very misunderstood. Teachers and schools are very accountable - we have a national curriculum which must be covered, and each teacher must do yearly and fortnightly schemes for each subject. Inspectors can, and do ask for these plans. I'm delighted that we don't have league tables here - the situation in the UK for example has become ridiculous and a lot of schools can't hang on to teachers because of the amount of ludicrous, unnecessary paperwork involved. I completely agree about the class sizes, they are ridiculous, and the government seems to be planning on increasing them again later in the year - this is nothing to do with schools/teachers, we are completely against this.

With regard to learning Irish, a child must be over 11 entering the irish education system to be granted an exemption. It might sound difficult, but most of the children I've seen who've arrived here (usually from England) pick up Irish really quickly. We teach it as a living language with a lot of incidental Irish used during the day, so the focus isn't solely on Irish as a single subject. You might even learn some Irish from your child!

Jobo32

Anyone know where i can find a definitive / up-to-date list of private primary schools in south dublin / north wicklow? Thanks.