Unions

gurramok

Thats 'some' Riskymove. The temps ain't paid that much, the savings would come from the fulltimer bracket and yet keeping people in jobs and the kids education happy!

Hootanany

How about the Unions orchestrating that all there members pay there own pension from own there salary,Scrap Flexitime this is a disgrace and prone to abuse,and a Doctors note for when they are sick no note no pay

irish_bob

gurramok wrote: »

Thats 'some' Riskymove. The temps ain't paid that much, the savings would come from the fulltimer bracket and yet keeping people in jobs and the kids education happy!

my sister is working as a temp teacher this past few weeks , shes on 40 quid an hour and thinks its an absurd amount of money , she works for animo production studios as a free lance producer most of the time and doesnt earn anything like that money when in wicklow

Long Onion

eamonnm79 wrote: »

I remeber watching a report that George Lee did on RTE news 3/4 years ago.
He compared pay rates between unionised and non unionised workers who did the same work.
Unionised workers had secured better pay and conditions than non unionised workers.
Its not surprising really.
When workers are represented together they have more power than when they act alone.
Wheather you like the tactics of unions or not, proper representation results in better working conditions.
Obviously Employers dont like when the imbalance of power they hold over their workers is redressed but when People who are not in unions cry foul because they are not in unions themselves they are only acting in a self defeating way.
I am not in a union but I would like it if I was being represented when payrates and terms and conditions are being discussed by management.
If you are lucky enough to be highly skilled and in high demand you may feel you dont need a union but wheather people admit it or not, they would be on better pay if they had a union rep.

Don't get me wrong here, I think that it would be a bad move to do away with collective bargaining, of course this is a great means of securing the best deal for workers. What I have an issue with is the fact that our unions in their current guises are still living in the dark ages, spouting out Marxist nonsense and blaming "rampant capitalism" for the woes of the world. Carry on with collective bargaining by all means, but for God sake, make it relevant to the times in which we live.

The CEO's of many large employers are on salaries similar to Begg, O'Connor and McLoone and are seen as 'fat cats', this is ridiculous. Allowing the subs of the 'downtrodden wurkers' to be used to pay six figure salaries to heads of trade unions is perverse (by the way, we have not even begun to include expenses and pension costs for the union heads).

I really don't care how many members a union has, when you premise your whole raison d'etre on the fact that some citizens are making more money than they could ever really need at the expense of those less well off, and then you draw a salary of €155,000 per annum plus expenses plus pension, then I am entitled to call you a damn hippocrite.

Reduce the subs for these 'wurkers', take a pay and pension cut, pay your own expenses and I will show you respect. Until then, shut up.

anonymous_joe

And today certain trade unions have gone and alienated the rest of the nation once again.

Stark

It would seem SIPTU is now looking for a 3.5% wage increase according to today's papers.

bnev

Stark wrote: »

It would seem SIPTU is now looking for a 3.5% wage increase according to today's papers.

I just heard this...where do you even begin about how wrong this is?

The Volt

Following a 7% pay cut that's happened already I thought?

optocynic

Voltwad wrote: »

Following a 7% pay cut that's happened already I thought?

A pension levy is a pay deferal!

I want to know where the me-feiner Public sector think all this money will come from?

Hootanany

Voltwad wrote: »

Following a 7% pay cut that's happened already I thought?

Its your own pension FFS

kippy

optocynic wrote: »

A pension levy is a pay deferal!

I want to know where the me-feiner Public sector think all this money will come from?

To be honest, like many people at lot of people in the public sector are "me feiners" (Like a lot in the private sector).
No matter who you are or what you earn, taking any form of reductions in terms of your employment is tough to take and in the PS not something that will be forced on people easily.
Most of them dont really care where the money comes from.


The top and bottom line, polices in this country for the last ten years have allowed public sector numbers and pay to grow to such a level, however this level was only sustainable on very short term taxation income which was never going to stand up.
The government of the day have to cut back somehow in the PS spend and invest in some form of stimulus for private sector industry.

Hootanany

There gonna Kick off again 7% should be 20% and pay for there Pension's

Idbatterim

7% is nothing! and they probably wont hit the low PS earners at all with that amount! We have a 20 billion deficit, 4 billion is nothing! We are absolutely screwed, I just cant see things getting any better any time soon! Infact I cant see how the Europe wont pull the plug on us!

dearg lady

Stark wrote: »

It would seem SIPTU is now looking for a 3.5% wage increase according to today's papers.

SIPTUs thinking is to use this promised 3.5% payrise as a bargaining piece, as it's almost certain the government will increase the pension levy in the budget.

hobochris

The problem with our unions is there is no mechanism for deflation.

All the current unions understand is pay rises. They cannot comprehend in their tiny minds the concept of a deficit. What they should be doing is sitting down the government finding out the score(as far as public funds go) and then negotiating accordingly, The cuts need to be made, if they fight the government on this their members may suffer more in the process.

If they were doing there jobs right they would be negotiating a softer landing for the workers they represent rather then carrying on as if we are still in the boom, which may end up costing jobs rather then reducing salaries.

optocynic

dearg lady wrote: »

SIPTUs thinking is to use this promised 3.5% payrise as a bargaining piece, as it's almost certain the government will increase the pension levy in the budget.

Here's to hoping!!!

Hootanany

Just heard a Union rep scolding an Irishman that teaches in England on the Pat Kenny show it was disgraceful trying to justify there pay

P. Breathnach

Hootanany wrote: »

Just heard a Union rep scolding an Irishman that teaches in England on the Pat Kenny show it was disgraceful trying to justify there pay

I think you miss the point about unions. They are supposed to represent the interests of their members.

akaredtop

The hypocrisy, greed and avarice protrayed by the Unions is quite sickening. To think of those people who have lost their jobs and those on welfare with no hope in the immediate future of finding a job and then listening to Jack O Connor advocating protecting these privileged people in the public service is quite immoral. We just heard this morning on the Pat Kenny show how cushy the teachers have it here. It is time to wake up. Part of me hopes the Gov will not do the necessary as that will reult in the IMF coming in sometime next year to do the necessary. They certainly will not listen to any bluster from the Union leaders.

anonymous_joe

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think you miss the point about unions. They are supposed to represent the interests of their members.

In the long term, driving their country towards economic ruin doesn't represent their members interests.

They're greedy and either too stupid or too indifferent to care about the state of the country.

dodgyme

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think you miss the point about unions. They are supposed to represent the interests of their members.

The unions are missing the point about the new reality.

Hootanany

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think you miss the point about unions. They are supposed to represent the interests of their members.

They are ruining this Country FULL STOP.

P. Breathnach

Hootanany wrote: »

They are ruining this Country FULL STOP.

What does "FULL STOP" mean? That you cease thinking? That you disallow any point of view other than your own?

irish_bob

Idbatterim wrote: »

7% is nothing! and they probably wont hit the low PS earners at all with that amount! We have a 20 billion deficit, 4 billion is nothing! We are absolutely screwed, I just cant see things getting any better any time soon! Infact I cant see how the Europe wont pull the plug on us!

thier needs to be on average a 30% pay cut across the public sector over the next three years , judges , politicans , consultants , heads of the likes of ESB, BORD GAIS , AER RIANTA etc , 35% , guards , nurses , teachers, firemen , prison officers 30% , right down to clerical officers 20%

mikemac

You can't cut the wages of judges.
At best, you can ask them to take a voluntary pay cut

Hootanany

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What does "FULL STOP" mean? That you cease thinking? That you disallow any point of view other than your own?

It means Full Stop they will ruin this Country just watch Gaurds getting an allowance when on leave to make up for lost overtime is just one Flexitime sick days Teachers getting money for looking after our children in the yard FFS
there salary should suffice for them Greed is bad

anonymous_joe

mikemac wrote: »

You can't cut the wages of judges.
At best, you can ask them to take a voluntary pay cut

Which almost all of them have taken.

However, if you force them to take more cuts, you won't have any judges - most judges take a significant paycut when they become members of the judiciary. If their wages are cut constantly, the next batch of judges will remain as barristers and solicitors.

You are right though, in that there does need to be a general wage decrease in the public sector, and not one that merely reduces the wages of those a the higher echelons.

The priority right now is not fairness, it's saving our economy, which, in the long term, is better for everyone.

The Volt

anonymous_joe wrote: »

The priority right now is not fairness, it's saving our economy, which, in the long term, is better for everyone.

This is a ridiculous argument. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Society is supposed to be about fairness

Hootanany

Day of Unrest cost 70 million what is the Strike going to cost

Hootanany

Bump