Canvassing for the Lisbon Treaty

Sully

Has anybody else been verbally or physically abused by any side of the campaign for the Lisbon Treaty? The "No" side came into the college today with a paper - just saying that it was a "free paper" and when I quizzed. It was two elderly ladies. One of the women said it contained the "truth about Lisbon" and was not in anyway one sided. It was full on anti-EU and anti-Lisbon rubbish including a warning from De Valera 50 years ago not to join the EU. Also that the CIA setup the Europe Union to spy on us all.

Tried to debate it with her and she went on with the usual.. military spending, constituion being pointless, No side were all factually correct, robbing the farmers and fishermen, her family fought for freedom, terrified what it will do etc. I called their campaign false and misleading, that Europe has been great for Ireland and we would be in a right state without them. Shouted back the usual rubbish before I just walked away on them.

One of the women started shouting at me saying I will live to regret it and started poking me constantly until I told her to stop before I report her for assault. Same women told one of the staff members who asked them to leave that she would pray for his soul as he was going to hell.

Also demanded the article which talks about min. wage. Just kept asking me to go to a meeting in Dublin on the Lisbon and she would offer me a fact sheet. Never did answer my question.

So, with the campaign heating up - how has it been for you? How did either side treat you when you told them what way you were voting? If anything, these nut jobs make me a firm Yes voter with no doubt in my mind.

BlitzKrieg

nothing in person yet, but I havnt been the most social for the last few weeks due to a project I am trying to finish and most of my friends particulary dont care about the referendum
(though they are all trinity enginear graduates which led to the most bizarred discussion on cement and the EU)

But online I get the usual bit of abuse via youtube every now and then.

I ran into that paper (national soverign or something) today in a taxi out to work. Asked the taxi driver to skip to the section about lightbulbs (even let him run the meter while he was reading it) asked him again if he believed the paper and his response was "Sounds like a bunch of nutjobs"

wylo

Im having a horrible time talking to people about it, I would definitely make an awful politician. I wouldnt have the patience to deal with some of the stuff people come out with. Ive kind of given up now talking to people about it now, its simply too frustrating. If they do ask me my opinion I do get into it but other than that I leave it off.

I have realised in the past year that it is much much easier to be a no voter than a yes voter (where I work and live anyway). I am a yes voter and Im being lumped in with FF & GP.
Every reason I have been given by someone for voting no has been based on a lie.
Yesterday I said to someone they should really read it before telling people how to vote. He then said back to me sarcastically "Im sure you've read it!!" , I said "I have"(which is true), and he just laughed.

I have recently bit my tongue, I was standing with a group of people at work a few days ago, one of them was explaining to people how if you vote yes your writing off our constitution and passing it over to Europe. He truly believed this, I just bit my tongue cause id been argueing the last few days and was just tired at that stage.

Rb

wylo wrote: »

Im having a horrible time talking to people about it, I would definitely make an awful politician. I wouldnt have the patience to deal with some of the stuff people come out with. Ive kind of given up now talking to people about it now, its simply too frustrating. If they do ask me my opinion I do get into it but other than that I leave it off.

I have realised in the past year that it is much much easier to be a no voter than a yes voter (where I work and live anyway). I am a yes voter and Im being lumped in with FF & GP.
Every reason I have been given by someone for voting no has been based on a lie.
Yesterday I said to someone they should really read it before telling people how to vote. He then said back to me sarcastically "Im sure you've read it!!" , I said "I have"(which is true), and he just laughed.

I have recently bit my tongue, I was standing with a group of people at work a few days ago, one of them was explaining to people how if you vote yes your writing off our constitution and passing it over to Europe. He truly believed this, I just bit my tongue cause id been argueing the last few days and was just tired at that stage.

If people are accusing you of being FF, GP or FG, then ensure to remind them that if you're part of said parties merely because of how you're voting, then on the same basis they're Sinn Fein and Coir.

If that's not enough to shut them up on the point, then they don't deserve the attention.

The Volt

I've got one associate in particular who has made no effort to educate himself whatsoever about the treaty and just goes along with the conscription, neutrality, constitution bullcrap as a reason to vote no. It's like talking to a wall.

Sully

Having canvassed for the Yes side and debated with the No side on many occasions - generally most people dont comment. Those who did were mixed between Yes and No. Some believed the stuff the likes of Coir and Sinn Fein have came out with and until explained would have been against it. Others are against Europe in general ("I am Irish and not European" was one statement at the door) and one was anti everything. Complete nut job - anti government, EU, the world is evil etc.

Rule of thumb is never to get into an argument, just present the facts and assist in clarifying confusion. Most people will prefer that rather then a full blown argument.

Het-Field

Little or no abuse.

Some red herrings though !

I think the newspaper the OP referred to was "The Sovreign" or something like that ! Eire Go Brath are also operating, and they seem to be another group of extremists.

TBH I think many people are just sick and tired of politics, and this is another distraction !

BloodyDeath

not a student just a reg joe.

my opinion on the whole lisbon thing is, no matter which side have the best argument the fact of the matter is what people we have in goverment cant be trusted to the job, ff fg sf whoever.

so i say yeah, vote for lisbon give them boys in brussles the power to run what we got cause for sure what we got cant.

and thats not a vote for yes thats a vote for no to the power these yahoos in goverment have.

just my opinon

cormac

WeeBushy

BloodyDeath wrote: »

not a student just a reg joe.

my opinion on the whole lisbon thing is, no matter which side have the best argument the fact of the matter is what people we have in goverment cant be trusted to the job, ff fg sf whoever.

so i say yeah, vote for lisbon give them boys in brussles the power to run what we got cause for sure what we got cant.

and thats not a vote for yes thats a vote for no to the power these yahoos in goverment have.

just my opinon

cormac

Well if you're voting yes I guess I can't complain too much :pac:, but why you're voting yes is a little bit misguided.

The Lisbon treaty has nothing to do with our government and their competency, or lack there of. The Lisbon treaty does not give the boys in brussels the power to run our country, what it does essentially is reform how the EU runs itself.

Please do vote yes, but unfortunately Lisbon wont get rid of the cretins in charge just yet, we'll have to bide our time before we get to deal with them.

Back OT: Had a lovely chat with Ruairi Quinn in college yesterday. After he found out I was voting yes he didn't seem too interested in me anymore though
Haven't had the energy to deal with the no nutters so I've just avoided them.

Tarobot

I think I've convinced about 20 people to vote Yes over the last few weeks of canvassing - small numbers but it all adds up!

I've had a depressing amount of people believing the €1.84 minimum wage lie - don't blame them it's hard to find the truth in all the mess. Getting into some great debates with just a few looneys coming out with things like:
-EU bringing us into WW3
-EU will make us all homosexuals (wtf??)
-I'm voting No because of the Polish (blatant racist)


A few No votes against the government - some are for convincing that it would be shooting ourselves in the foot but some are not for turning.

squod

Fair play to everyone for canvasing, in fairness it seems everyone has here has put some effort into it. But you know what gets me? You guys are doing all this extra work for something you believe in, then you go home and turn on your TV. And who do you find there, voicing your opinions on this the most important of treatys? Your equal? Your mentor? No, generally it's Dick Roche.

Yeah this government really wants this Lisbon yoke to get passed or whatever. So they've sent their top man.

Nice one people for all the canvassing n' all. Must feel great to know Dick Roche has your back.

Tarobot

squod wrote: »

You guys are doing all this extra work for something you believe in, then you go home and turn on your TV. And who do you find there, voicing your opinions on this the most important of treatys? Your equal? Your mentor? No, generally it's Dick Roche. .

Well I was actually interviewed by Newstalk and we got onto the main news bulletins heh heh..brilliant.

Scofflaw

squod wrote: »

Fair play to everyone for canvasing, in fairness it seems everyone has here has put some effort into it. But you know what gets me? You guys are doing all this extra work for something you believe in, then you go home and turn on your TV. And who do you find there, voicing your opinions on this the most important of treatys? Your equal? Your mentor? No, generally it's Dick Roche.

Yeah this government really wants this Lisbon yoke to get passed or whatever. So they've sent their top man.

Nice one people for all the canvassing n' all. Must feel great to know Dick Roche has your back.

Alas, Dick Roche is very far from the most objectionable person involved in this referendum. Does it make you feel better to know you have Nigel Farage, Declan Ganley, Gerry Adams, Brian Greene, Patricia McKenna, Anthony Coughlan, and the rest of those honest worthies on "your" side?

amused,
Scofflaw

Sully

Canvassing tonight. Most people fine. One person chased after us with our leaflets and other "Yes" side leaflets saying he didnt want our rubbish and he was voting no. If your voting no - just say so. If your voting yes - just say so. If your not sure - just say so. I have no intention on telling you what to do, but ill help you understand it better if you want to ask. Otherwise, ill give you the leaflet and be on my way.

Canvassing is never straight forward though.

BlitzKrieg

i'll be canvassing come monday, any tips for someone who hasnt gone knocking on peoples doors before?

vanla sighs

I don't plan on getting into long winded conversations, we've had 75,000 vote No flyers printed up in Germany and they're winging their way to me in Ireland as I type, might have gone overboard with the 75,000 but better safe than sorry. Gonna have a fecker of a time shifting 75,000....lol I'll just prob stand in the city centre and give em out willy nilly to whoever'll grab one. Door to door with so many and being so late in the day is a bit unrealistic.

We've setup a very basic website here that shows the flyers in a much larger version. Hopefully it might convince some to vote No. I've mentioned immigration on it so who knows what kinda reaction I'll get and before folks start saying "oh, you're a racist", em, no, I'm not.

There might be some verbal attacks from yes voters, who knows. Physical? Who knows, maybe, I doubt it but ya know what they say, if pushed...push back! But tbh I think those with the most anger will be No voters confronted by yes canvassers..........you see, we did already vote and our vote was invalidated!

Scofflaw

vanla sighs wrote:

we've had 75,000 vote No flyers printed up in Germany and they're winging their way to me in Ireland as I type

It's hard not to enjoy the irony.

amused,
Scofflaw

vanla sighs

Scofflaw wrote: »

It's hard not to enjoy the irony.

amused,
Scofflaw

Lol......heard that already over at P.ie. Actually, it's not, as I am not anti-EU, in fact I am pro-EU but anti-Lisbon, a very BIG difference....:)

BlitzKrieg

oh sweet jesus its got the spain *fact*

vanla sighs

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

oh sweet jesus its got the spain *fact*

Well, it is a fact after all......why do you think it's a bit too factual, like Yes for Jobs?

Tarobot

vanla sighs wrote: »

Well, it is a fact after all......why do you think it's a bit too factual, like Yes for Jobs?

You're not stating a fact, you're stating two facts and trying to incorrectly tie them together. Big difference.

Scofflaw

vanla sighs wrote: »

Well, it is a fact after all......why do you think it's a bit too factual, like Yes for Jobs?

It's not "a fact", it's the linking of two unrelated events with a pretence of causality. Around here, we call a lie a lie, and that's a lie. If you do plan on entering any of the long-winded discussions here, I strongly advise you to stick to real facts. This is not politics.ie.

moderately,
Scofflaw

vanla sighs

Tarobot wrote: »

You're not stating a fact, you're stating two facts and trying to incorrectly tie them together. Big difference.

I disagree. And you think Yes for Jobs or Yes for Recovery is factual?

vanla sighs

Scofflaw wrote: »

It's not "a fact", it's the linking of two unrelated events with a pretence of causality. Around here, we call a lie a lie, and that's a lie. If you do plan on entering any of the long-winded discussions here, I strongly advise you to stick to real facts. This is not politics.ie.

moderately,
Scofflaw

I disagree. And what then is your take on the yes side posters stating Yes for Jobs etc?

Dinner

vanla sighs wrote: »

Well, it is a fact after all......why do you think it's a bit too factual

It was my understanding that unemployment in Spain rose as a result of them losing to France in the knockout stages of the 2006 World Cup. After all, it is a fact that unemployment has risen since then.

vanla sighs

Dinner wrote: »

It was my understanding that unemployment in Spain rose as a result of them losing to France in the knockout stages of the 2006 World Cup. After all, it is a fact that unemployment has risen since then.

Really? Hmmm, maybe you're right, why don't you get some flyers done up about it.....

Tarobot

vanla sighs wrote: »

I disagree. And you think Yes for Jobs or Yes for Recovery is factual?

Um, you might want to try to argue your case a bit better than "I disagree".

Actually, I do believe a Yes will be better for jobs. Particularly for the green economy as a recent Forfas report on the Environmental Goods and Services sector has shown EU policy to be a major market driver. The new area of Energy and commitment to fighting climate change will only work to further drive the green economy in Ireland.

Dinner

vanla sighs wrote: »

Really? Hmmm, maybe you're right, why don't you get some flyers done up about it.....

I might do. Germany is the place to go then?

vanla sighs

Dinner wrote: »

I might do. Germany is the place to go then?

Yep, that's where I got mine done anyway. But ya might wanna hurry, not much time left!

vanla sighs

Tarobot wrote: »

Um, you might want to try to argue your case a bit better than "I disagree".

Actually, I do believe a Yes will be better for jobs. Particularly for the green economy as a recent Forfas report on the Environmental Goods and Services sector has shown EU policy to be a major market driver. The new area of Energy and commitment to fighting climate change will only work to further drive the green economy in Ireland.

Argue my case? I don't see any reason to argue my case here and now. I'm not here to convince anyone. Vote which ever way you want to. I know how I'm voting and how I'm going to canvass.

Scofflaw

vanla sighs wrote: »

Argue my case? I don't see any reason to argue my case here and now. I'm not here to convince anyone. Vote which ever way you want to. I know how I'm voting and how I'm going to canvass.

Which is the topic of the thread.

moderately,
Scofflaw