Animal cruelty?

Orla K

I'm just wondering what people would consider as cruel. There are obvious ones like beating, withholding food and so on but what about the less obvious ones such as, some of these I would consider cruel some I'm not too sure about.

-rarely walking a dog
-keeping an animal in one small room for most the day
-having a cat always outdoors (ie NEVER inside the house, can make health problems go unnoticed)
-not giving a pet vet care because of money issues
-pet sleeping outside in dirty shed
-not spending much time with a pet

I'm sure there's more and if anyone wants to add to that list feel free.
What has me thinking this is yesterday I found a stray cat, his upper teeth have nearly rotted away and his gums seem very sore. Someone mentioned that an elderly neighbour of there's had/has a cat that needed to go to the vet last christmas but the neighbour ended up getting sick and someone had to look after the cat (go in and feed it) the cat going to the vet was then forgotten about. This is close to where I found the stray cat. It has got me thinking about what is cruelty. I know someone who when I told them I was keeping my own cat indoors all the time said it wasn't right and it was cruel, I'm doing it for her own safety and my own peace of mind, she is missing a leg so won't be able to defend herself well and won't be as fast. I also don't know if she is neutered or not.

iguana

Orla K wrote: »

-having a cat always outdoors (ie NEVER inside the house, can make health problems go unnoticed)
-not giving a pet vet care because of money issues
-pet sleeping outside in dirty shed

I don't think any of these count as cruelty. For the first one I don't think anyone gets a cat and then bungs it outside never to let it indoors. That sounds more like someone feeding a wild cat. For example there is a cat which lives near my parents' house, they and some of the neighbours give it food. When she was pregnant my family looked after her, rehomed the kittens and my brother got her spayed. But she isn't their cat, my mother can't stand cats and my dad isn't fond of them either. If she was sick they'd take her to a vet but she isn't their cat.

As for the money issues, that sounds like the statement of someone who has never had real money issues. Vets bills are expensive and if you can't afford to get vet care you can't afford it. Money can't be conjured up out of good wishes.

And lots of dogs sleep outdoors. Once they have a bed in a dry, sheltered area that is just fine.

Orla K

iguana wrote: »

I don't think any of these count as cruelty. For the first one I don't think anyone gets a cat and then bungs it outside never to let it indoors. That sounds more like someone feeding a wild cat. For example there is a cat which lives near my parents' house, they and some of the neighbours give it food. When she was pregnant my family looked after her, rehomed the kittens and my brother got her spayed. But she isn't their cat, my mother can't stand cats and my dad isn't fond of them either. If she was sick they'd take her to a vet but she isn't their cat.

As for the money issues, that sounds like the statement of someone who has never had real money issues. Vets bills are expensive and if you can't afford to get vet care you can't afford it. Money can't be conjured up out of good wishes.

And lots of dogs sleep outdoors. Once they have a bed in a dry, sheltered area that is just fine.

Any comments on the other suggestions?

I have seen people get a pet (either a dog or a cat) and then not want them to come indoors and left them outside 24 7. One of those the owner paid about €600 for, it was a pure breed. It does happen, I'd understand if it was a stray cat, but something which was your pet would be different.

I have alot of money issues, I'm not working, I need to get the car fixed and I have loans which I need to pay off. My cat had to get her tooth out recently. I asked them before they did it how much would it cost, they said maybe €120. My response was, well it has to be done and I found the money somewhere, luckily it only ended up costing €80. Alot of places will take the money in installments too. Even if I had no money to feed myself I would ask friends or family to help me with my cat if she was in pain.

Clean and dry are fine but what if it was a messy shed full of sharp tools? (Which I have also seen)

MoonDancer256

Orla K wrote: »

Even if I had no money to feed myself I would ask friends or family to help me with my cat if she was in pain.

This. One of my pets needed two operations recently, completely out of the blue. Never been sick before... cost me 5-600€ that I didn't have available, but I made it work. Couldn't have left her ill.

But what annoys me most is not people who get a pet, then fall on hard times and feel they can't afford to give vet care to the animal... its the ones who go "hurr cute kitty" and get one with no idea (and no care) about the costs of said animal's care.

As for outdoor animals... I don't agree with it if it's a "pet" per se. My cats are indoors only for their own safety, and will remain so until I set up a run out back for them. My dog lives indoors, and only goes out to play / walk / toilet / sunbathe. I don't understand why so many people get a dog then kick it out into a kennel for 90% of its life It's not neglect, I just think its strange.

jen_23

Orla K wrote: »

-rarely walking a dog
-keeping an animal in one small room for most the day
-having a cat always outdoors (ie NEVER inside the house, can make health problems go unnoticed)
-not giving a pet vet care because of money issues
-pet sleeping outside in dirty shed
-not spending much time with a pet

Hey Orla!!

Rarely walking a dog is neglect but only if it's a breed that needs the excercise. There are s few breeds that need very little but the majority of the time and especially bigger breed dogs I would fully agree it is neglect.

Keeping an animal in one small room for most of the day.
I'm wondering what you consider 'most of the day' I just ask as I'm wondering do you mean for while the owners are working and night-time or longer. Longer I would agree neglect.
However I keep my samoyed out in a pen for the 5/6 hours I would be at work and when I'm at home he sleeps out there. (his choice!! I was trying to crate him and he whinged and whined for several weeks!! the second I put him outside - not a peep!! ) His pen is 13ft x7.5ft but as he's a dog that overheats very quickly (right now he's lying at the end of the bed panting even with the window open!!)it's kinder to him and he prefers it!! However at the weekends he sleeps in doors with us at my bfs (we havn't a pen here for him or secure garden).

Pet vet care... Hmmm thats a tough one. I would hope the majority of people are smart enough to get insurance now!! I know I'll never have a problem paying for any of Gunnars vet bills because he is insured!
I think people need to be smart and realise insurance is cheaper in the long run than having to fork out for expensive treatments!

Obviously though if your someone who genuinely doesn't have the money and no way to get it?? I imagine that would be a very upsetting situation to be in.

Pet sleeping outside in dirty shed.
Well pets should not be in dirty surroundings. I agree that this is neglect. I personnally make sure that the poop is cleared from the garden and gunnars pen every single day and his pen hosed down. I would never in a million years leave one days poop carry into the next day.

Not spending much time with pet also ties in with always having a cat outdoors..
If your going to get a pet you have made a commitment to look after it so I believe that ignoring a pet is negligent. HOWEVER saying that we have a cat at home that sleeps in the shed (cat flap on shed to come and go) and to be honest we feed her and thats it! She's an outdoor cat and will not entertain playing with me (I've tried with catnip toys ). She does love petting for about 5 minutes and will then run off. She's an outdoor cat. If I try to pick her up she will scrawl me to be put back down.

As for health problems. Cindy is as healthy as they come. If I ever saw her looking unwell I would somehow with chainmail armour get her to the vets

So my point is it depends on the pet. My cat doesn't really like much attention but my dog can't get enough

Steve30x

Orla K wrote: »

-rarely walking a dog
-keeping an animal in one small room for most the day
-having a cat always outdoors (ie NEVER inside the house, can make health problems go unnoticed)
-not giving a pet vet care because of money issues
-pet sleeping outside in dirty shed
-not spending much time with a pet

* My dogs get walked every day but I agree that not walking the dog is nelect.
* My big dog absolutely refuses to stay indoors. I bring her inside a few times a day but ten minutes later she begs to go outside again
* I have insurance on my dogs which will help with the vets bills
* My big dog has a clean and warm kennell to sleep in at night. Myself and my brother done our best to build a kennell where all holes are blocked except the door where we put a piece of lino over it and cut it into strips so the dog can go in and out but stay warm at the same time. Also I have a sleeping bag on the floor of the kennell to help her keep warm and I wash the sleeping bag once a week.
* I go out to play with my big dog a few times a day for a half an hour and to train her some tricks.

dylanrose

All the things mentioned in the first post are bona fide cruelty. Dogs especially are social pack animals and ingoring them or leaving them on there own is bad for their mental health and will cause stress related problems or stereotypical behaviours. This is your dog going mad! they are part of a family and should be treated as such.

dee o gee

I think there is a fine line between neglect and cruelty, the difference in my opinion between the two is that intentonal neglect IS cruelty, for example somebody doesn't walk there dog often Person.A- doesn't walk them because they simply don't realise that dogs should be walked every day, this is simply an uneduacated dog owner. PersonB- simply can't be bothered getting off there backside to walk there dog even though they realise hes bored and that dogs should be walked every day. In my opinion PersonA is neglect, PersonB is cruelty. Some people have different views on that and I know there are people who disagree with me.

I too have been told that keeping my cat inside permanently is cruelty, but see when she did go outside she wasn't very streetwise and used to sit on the side of a very busy road and watch the cars go by, I would love to live somewhere safe where I could let her out without any danger of her getting injured or killed as I know she would be happier, maybe im being selfish but I have lost a cat to the road and hate to see dead cats/dogs on the road as it so easily could be prevented.

nite11owl

dylanrose wrote: »

All the things mentioned in the first post are bona fide cruelty. Dogs especially are social pack animals and ingoring them or leaving them on there own is bad for their mental health and will cause stress related problems or stereotypical behaviours. This is your dog going mad! they are part of a family and should be treated as such.

Unfortunately under the present welfare act only one of the thing mentioned in the first post would be classed as cruelty, and that is not getting vetinary treatment as this would be classed as allowing a animal to suffer unnecessary. The laws need to change in this country and soon.