Australia sleepwalking into population disaster.....

Doc

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendansmith
Nobody is saying that Vietnamese butchers are changing peoples lives. They sell meat..

Not butchers per say but Vietnamese and Asian people generally are going by this post below.

Quote:
People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

Im sorry but you have quoted me here trying to support your argument when it clearly dose not. It says people can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life how on earth dose this equate to Vietnamese and Asian people are changing our life?

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Done.

Refered to your first post.
You said that you think that you think that Australia becoming entirely asian and America becoming entirely Hispanic are good things.

Entirely Asian and hispanic is not the same as multicultural.

You have been ranting contradiction after contradiction, twisting and turning everyones comments and annoying every other poster with your rubbish.
Maybe you should just give it a rest.

Nice little PR job. I DID NOT QUOTE from 38141's post in my first post. I was posting to the OP.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62197198&postcount=3

Also I fail to see where I said that Australia being entirely Asian or American being entirely Hispanic.

There is a differnce between a country that is 99% Asian/Hispanic (which you are imlpying) and Asian/Hispanic being in the majority i.e they are a greater % of the population than than the current majority (whites).

Kalashnikov_Kid

Maybe Oz could take a leaf out of Toronto's book (and Canada in general).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto

Nearly half the population are born outside of Canada.

Didn't see any race riots last time I was there. You have 'Chinatown', 'Koreatown', 'Greektown', 'Portuguese Town' etc. and it seems to work fine. Racial tension is very low. The "melting pot" philosophy actually works here, as people by enlarge are tolerant of race.

No one is under any pressure to be 'Canadian', and rightly so IMO.

There's alot of scaremongering going on here. Or maybe Irish pubs shouldn't be tolerated anymore either.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Nice little PR job. I DID NOT QUOTE from 38141's post in my first post. I was posting to the OP.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62197198&postcount=3

Also I fail to see where I said that Australia being entirely Asian or American being entirely Hispanic.

There is a differnce between a country that is 99% Asian/Hispanic (which you are imlpying) and Asian/Hispanic being in the majority i.e they are a greater % of the population than than the current majority (whites).

Youre caught out and you know it!! :D

You are once again twisting and turning. There is no way youre responding to the OPs post.

jank

Doc wrote: »

Yes I said that however this is not what you made out I “complained” about but apparently actually debating what I said was more difficult. Even your response here is not what you told me I was complaining about what I said was…

“How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another dozen’t make sense at all and is just wrong?.”

If I was complaining at all I was complaining about the lack of integration of some immigrants who chose to live and work in area of their new country that is almost entirely composed of people, shops, restraints and bars just as it would be in their old country transporting their entire culture from one area to another and ignoring the existing culture of the country. I suppose I would also have been complaining about the fact that you where contradicting yourself.

What Brendansmith said is true you are trying to twist and turn what everyone has said who dose not agree with your opinions into something they are not.!

Well first of all I am not twisting anything, I am just calling people up as they make comments that are not thought through and getting them to backup comments made by facts.

You do by the way have in one sense a valid complaint about integration of migrants. Efforts must be made by community leaders and the state to help migrants integrate into their new country but you cant just tell them who they areas they sign a piece of paper.

At the end of the day the state cant force you to speak a language, cant force you to live in a certain area, cant force you not to open a shop that sells food from the old country. Australia is not a communist country where there is a quota on the number of Vietnamese butchers allowed to operate in a certain area or district. Market forces will dictate where there are too few or too many of these shops.

But I am all ears. What would you propose to solve this?

Doc wrote: »

So would you say this to an 80 year old Australian woman who has lived in that suburb her whole life? Don’t shop here! The national language is English. The shopkeeper has made the choice to come to a country where English is the national language and at the least he should display in both languages.!

The shop keeper has within his rights to put up any language in his displays he wishes. Who are you to tell him otherwise?

I refer you to the Department of Immigration

Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/multicultural/confer/04/speech18b.htm. Retrieved 2009-01-11. "English has no de jure status but it is so entrenched as the common language that it is de facto the official language as well as the national language."

Also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Australia

Yes English is the main language of the country but it is by Law "Not" the official language but is by proxy same as the States. You want to know why?

Doc wrote: »

No I think you missed the point and the fact that you never heard that an area that is called Hells Kitchen was a ghetto and a slum is laughable.!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell's_Kitchen,_Manhattan
Find the word Ghetto in that posting and I will agree with you otherwise....

However, you are looking at this from a very black and white viewpoint.

Where you rather immigrants move to? Would you scatter them all around the place into more well to do areas. If you do that the NIMBYS will say I dont want those poor immigrants driving down the price of my property. You cant win! What is your cure all solution?

Immigrants will move to an area for a number of reason but those reason are mostly economical (Cheap rents) and social (like minded cultural people). As immigrants move up the social ladder and garner success they generally melt away into the wider community.There are hundreds of examples of this.

Doc wrote: »

If you actually called me up on the points I made that would be one thing but you don’t.!

What am i doing here, playing footsie?

Doc wrote: »

I asked you how many do you consider to be just a few? A few means a small number or amount. I live in Melbourne and there are more then a few Asian people living here. I have never once said that I thought too many Asian people lived here I have been purely talking about the cultural impact of people not adapting to the country they have emigrated to.!

A few or many. It doesn't matter to me if they are green, yellow or blue once they adhere to the strict Australian Immigration guidelines and have some skills and go to work. If over an extended period of time that a few, due to the compound laws of nature this turn into loads than thats the way it is, but I don't see that as bad thing! Its just the way it is.

Doc wrote: »

My God you do need to be walked through everything don’t you. From London to New York and pretty much every major city in the world the shops are all stating to become the same from Boots in Bangkok to Kmart here in Melbourne and Starbucks and McDonalds all over the world the uniqueness of different cities is slowly disappearing.!

OK for one that is not cultural, that is globalization and capitalism you know this distinctly western phenomenon we have that we exported all around the world.......

But I do agree that having boots in Bangkok and a 7/11 in every street corner is not a good thing. But as I said this is neither here nor there. In fact this makes a stronger case for people to keep their cultures, identify with the old country, their history as they emigrate from one country to another. This is what many of these Asians are doing, they are setting up their own shops that are not a corporate western brand. Would you like it if the Vietnamese butcher turned into a starbucks? No matter how hard I try but I cant shop in a Vietnamese butcher in Christchurch or Cork but I can sure as hell buy many a starbucks coffee.

If they just dumped their culture as soon as they arrived in a new country sure we would all be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand. Is that what you want? Sorry, but Ill take my Chinatowns dotted here and there over dull boring and bland globalization any day.

Doc wrote: »

Also as people from all over the world are attracted to the big cities the diversity of the population becomes gather and it becomes harder and harder to distinguish a large city in on country from that of another. .!

I don't think anyone that landed in New York had thought to themselves"Christ this looks like London!";)

Doc wrote: »

Tell me once when I said this!

Here.

I actually believe cultural diversity can have a very negative affect on a country.

If cultural diversity is negative than obviously to stop this one needs to stop immigrants that are culturally diverse entering into the country. Thus we stop what was negative. I cant put it more simply.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Youre caught out and you know it!! :D

You are once again twisting and turning. There is no way youre responding to the OPs post.

Yes I was responding the the flying spaghetti monster and not the OP;)

Zambia

Is Australia walking into a population disaster well I don't think so. i think we need a few more citys though.

It's also a well known fact about the cash for courses, there was several raids on schools in Dublin operating the same such practices a few years back.

There is also not enough White Australians to fill the positions in Melbourne that where previously mentioned. The service industry requirements are vast and the local population does not have the manpower.

Everyone currently migrating or has migrated to Australia did so because they like the lifestyle and basic feel of the place. Any migration policy simply has to ensure that the stream of new arrivals simply flows in at a pace that does not start to change the look and feel of the country dramatically. Because nobody including the new arrivals want that.

Lets face it if you ran the place like Afganistan how many Afghans would migrate here? None because the place would be a kip and we would all be screaming to get out.

Islamization can never happen here because it would have to be voted in and in a country where every woman has a vote thats not going to happen.

At the end of the day Australia can stop importing people whenever they like, and I assume they have more accurate projection figures than we do. When this happens nobody that's on the Aussie side of the door will care.

Doc

jank wrote: »

Well first of all I am not twisting anything, I am just calling people up as they make comments that are not thought through and getting them to backup comments made by facts.

Im sorry but you are twisting what I said

jank wrote: »

Here.

Quote:
I actually believe cultural diversity can have a very negative affect on a country.


If cultural diversity is negative than obviously to stop this one needs to stop immigrants that are culturally diverse entering into the country. Thus we stop what was negative. I cant put it more simply.

This is you putting your twist on what I actually said and it dose not represent my feeling on the mater at all. I did not say we should stop immigrants rather that immigrants should try to adopt the culture to which they are going to.

jank wrote: »

At the end of the day the state cant force you to speak a language, cant force you to live in a certain area, cant force you not to open a shop that sells food from the old country. Australia is not a communist country where there is a quota on the number of Vietnamese butchers allowed to operate in a certain area or district. Market forces will dictate where there are too few or too many of these shops.

But I am all ears. What would you propose to solve this?

I am not proposing that the state force anyone to do anything but if it is your decision to move to another country then it is my opinion that you should make every effort to integrate into that country. For example I could have chosen to live in the backpacker area of Melbourne and hang out with only Irish people and go only to Irish bars I didn’t because I have come here to experience a different life then the one I had at home.

jank wrote: »

The shop keeper has within his rights to put up any language in his displays he wishes. Who are you to tell him otherwise?

Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should or in this case shouldn’t do it. I never told the shopkeeper to put up signs English but as the majority of the people in Australia speak English it makes sense that he should.

jank wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell's_Kitchen,_Manhattan
Find the word Ghetto in that posting and I will agree with you otherwise....

Do you know what the word ghetto means? If not look it up. Just because an article on wikipedia dose not say the word ghetto doesn’t mean it wasn’t. It was a poverty stricken dangerous area mainly inhabited by immigrants from Ireland. It was a ghetto.

jank wrote: »

OK for one that is not cultural, that is globalization and capitalism you know this distinctly western phenomenon we have that we exported all around the world.......

Yes it is cultural. How can you say that the clothes that you ware the food that you eat and the products that you buy are not cultural? What do you think globalization is?

jank wrote: »

Would you like it if the Vietnamese butcher turned into a starbucks? No matter how hard I try but I cant shop in a Vietnamese butcher in Christchurch or Cork but I can sure as hell buy many a starbucks coffee.

No because this would be simply swapping American for Vietnamese plus I wanted to buy meat not coffee so that wouldn’t have been helpful at all now would it. The fact is that butcher was selling all the same things as most other butchers around the world the difference was that I could not read what was being advertised. If I was in Cork or Christchurch I would expect to walk into a butchers and be able to read what the labels say on the cuts of meet. I should be able to do the same here in Melbourne. If I was in Vietnam I would expect to have to know the language to read the signs in a butchers but not here.

jank wrote: »

If they just dumped their culture as soon as they arrived in a new country sure we would all be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand. Is that what you want? Sorry, but Ill take my Chinatowns dotted here and there over dull boring and bland globalization any day.

Why would we be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand if when we emigrated we adopted the culture of the country we went to?

jank wrote: »

I don't think anyone that landed in New York had thought to themselves"Christ this looks like London!";)

I have been to many cities and thought how sad it was that many of the streets have the same shops with the same branding and did look the same. If you don’t think so fine but I know you are wrong.

Havermeyer

jank wrote: »

Why is that a bad thing? It is not as if they have lived there for thousands of years. Personally I think its a bad thing that white people outnumber true Australians.

Fixed that for you.

jank

Doc wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are twisting what I said

This is you putting your twist on what I actually said and it dose not represent my feeling on the mater at all. I did not say we should stop immigrants rather that immigrants should try to adopt the culture to which they are going to..

Why does one have to totally drop their culture and become a defacto Australian within a day or two. Why cant people just strive to get along be tolerant rather than looking at things to b1tch about and give out about.

Ill ask again so as you seem to think I am twisting things you are saying, why is multi-culturalism a negative thing?

Doc wrote: »

I am not proposing that the state force anyone to do anything but if it is your decision to move to another country then it is my opinion that you should make every effort to integrate into that country. For example I could have chosen to live in the backpacker area of Melbourne and hang out with only Irish people and go only to Irish bars I didn’t because I have come here to experience a different life then the one I had at home. .

Good for you, but guess what because of your choice you now have a local Vietnamese butcher. Ironic eh?:p;)

Doc wrote: »

Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should or in this case should’t do it. ..

So..... whats does this mean exactly. He should put up English signs because Vietnamese offends you or might offend someone else? Rights are there for a reason. Would you like it if the government ordered all Irish bars to be stripped of their Cupla Focal?

Doc wrote: »

I never told the shopkeeper to put up signs English but as the majority of the people in Australia speak English it makes sense that he should..

Oh course it makes sense, it makes sense to have one world wide language so that we can all understand each other but thats not real life. He is well within his rights to put up whatever signs he wants.

Look, at the end of the day nobody forced you to go into that butcher, I am sure that within a block or two there is a more English friendly butcher where all your troubles are sorted. If not than move to a more "White" Australian area. Nobody is making you go into a shop, nobody is forcing you live in that area. Just dont go in there. Simple

If Melbourne is too Asian for you go outback, not many Asians there apart from the odd tourist.

Doc wrote: »

Do you know what the word ghetto means? If not look it up. Just because an article on wikipedia dose not say the word ghetto doesn’t mean it wasn’t. It was a poverty stricken dangerous area mainly inhabited by immigrants from Ireland. It was a ghetto..

OK well you define to me in your own words what a ghetto is and then tell me why the East End or a place like Hells Kitchen or even Little Italy should be called a ghetto.

Doc wrote: »

Yes it is cultural. How can you say that the clothes that you ware the food that you eat and the products that you buy are not cultural? What do you think globalization is?.

Globalization (or globalization) describes an ongoing process by which regional economies, societies and cultures have become integrated through a globe-spanning network of exchange. The term is sometimes used to refer specifically to economic globalization: the integration of national economies into the international economy through trade, foreign direct investment, capital flows, migration, and the spread of technology.[1]. However, globalization is usually recognized as being driven by a combination of economic, technological, sociocultural, political and biological factors.[2] The term can also refer to the transnational dissemination of ideas, languages, or popular culture.

Globalization is alot more than just a cultural thing as I said. Capitalism is the true driving force behind this. You have to look at these things in a holistic manner.

Doc wrote: »

No because this would be simply swapping American for Vietnamese plus I wanted to buy meat not coffee so that wouldn’t have been helpful at all now would it. The fact is that butcher was selling all the same things as most other butchers around the world the difference was that I could not read what was being advertised. If I was in Cork or Christchurch I would expect to walk into a butchers and be able to read what the labels say on the cuts of meet. I should be able to do the same here in Melbourne. If I was in Vietnam I would expect to have to know the language to read the signs in a butchers but not here. .

So basically you are never happy. You dont want a world where everything is the same but you dont want to go into a butcher and find yourself confronted with a menu that isnt english....

Doc wrote: »

Why would we be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand if when we emigrated we adopted the culture of the country we went to?.

Because global forces of immigration are coming mostly from the east into western countries where globalization is being driven by said nameless companies. Isn't that what you want? No Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Indian shops, restaurants or anything of the sort to be found in any western country as Borg like simulation takes place in immigration centers?. Porridge sales would go through the roof!

Doc wrote: »

I have been to many cities and thought how sad it was that many of the streets have the same shops with the same branding and did look the same. If you don’t think so fine but I know you are wrong.

I think its sad too, but answer me this, how many of those shops and brands were western and how many were eastern?

My guess is the western brands win by a landslide, hence my backing for the plucky Vietnamese butcher standing on the front line against bland, nameless globalization.

Doc

Look I’ve made my points perfectly clear but you still don’t seem to understand my view. I’m tiered of talking to you.

No one else has seamed to have a problem understanding my point of view.

jank

Doc wrote: »

Look I’ve made my points perfectly clear but you still don’t seem to understand my view. I’m tiered of talking to you.

No one else has seamed to have a problem understanding my point of view.

This isn't a popularity contest afaik.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

This isn't a popularity contest afaik.

Youre a popularity contest :P

irishconvert

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

maybe people think it's a bad thing because the country was founded on british/european values basically, and they don't want that to be changed. Melbourne seemed to be FULL of Asians everywhere I went, almost like they are 50% of the population, and they were never speaking English. How on earth do so many of them get in there?
I'm sure the Aborigines had similar thoughts when the white invadors arrived.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

And a growth in the Muslim population could change all kinds of things in Australia with their archaic beliefs and laws.

Typical Islamophobic scare mongering. Over 2 million Muslims in the UK and nothing has changed dramatically.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Youre a popularity contest :P

OK I have read that sentance 5 times and it makes no sense. Lay off the VB.

watna

jank wrote: »

OK I have read that sentance 5 times and it makes no sense. Lay off the VB.

I think that's the point. It's just a saying. Like if someone says "that's really special" the other person says "you're special" and then the first person responds with "you're mama's special".

Quite often it's used with words that don't really make sense. It can be funny if you're drunk!

FreeAnd..

everyone must be on the beer early today, am i the only one working?

brendansmith

FreeAnd.. wrote: »

everyone must be on the beer early today, am i the only one working?

Your face is on the beer early today. :P
Your face is the only one working.

FreeAnd..

brendansmith wrote: »

Your face is on the beer early today. :P
Your face is the only one working.

Wednesday or was it plastic?

Coileach dearg

When in Rome...

FreeAnd..

This thread has finally started to see some sense

m@cc@

brendansmith wrote: »

If someone stole your children you would hit the bottle too man!

I was inferring that the Aboriginal population have been a mess for a long time. In true Aussie spirit, no one has really put in a concerted effort to fix the problem only to blame on the Aboriginies.

CJhaughey

Thats because at the heart of it Australia was and is a fundamentally racist society.
Australia was based on killing the native population off and thereby taking the land by force, any that were not killed off were stuck in remote areas like Arnhem land with a lot of cheap grog to finish the job.
Australia has no formal recognition of the original inhabitants rights as regards land and that is the heart of the problem.
Then you have the White Australia Policy et al.

NZ was colonised a little later and while it is not problem free as regards race relations it is a long way ahead, mainly because the Treaty of Waitangi offered reparation and acknowledgment that the Maori people owned the land first.

aiecquest

Since I started this thread I would mention that a more believable figure is 28 million by 2050, from the Population Reference Bureau in Washington.

Though I think the tone of the thread has degenerated to about the level the population or immigration debate has in oz

Personally in Oz, see it as political/authority culture wars, or last **** of the "Skipocracy" i.e. old Anglo Australia...

PS I have relatives who are Maori, Fijian, plus friends of many different backgrounds including Moslem, at an informal level Oz is still very tolerant.

macca1983

CJhaughey wrote: »

Thats because at the heart of it Australia was and is a fundamentally racist society.
Australia was based on killing the native population off and thereby taking the land by force, any that were not killed off were stuck in remote areas like Arnhem land with a lot of cheap grog to finish the job.
Australia has no formal recognition of the original inhabitants rights as regards land and that is the heart of the problem.
Then you have the White Australia Policy et al.

NZ was colonised a little later and while it is not problem free as regards race relations it is a long way ahead, mainly because the Treaty of Waitangi offered reparation and acknowledgment that the Maori people owned the land first.

I'd have to agree. I only spent 6 weeks in Australia but i've never come across a more racist bunch of people, and i've spent quite a bit of time in South Africa.

mandrake04

Zambia232 wrote: »

Is Australia walking into a population disaster well I don't think so. i think we need a few more citys though.

It's also a well known fact about the cash for courses, there was several raids on schools in Dublin operating the same such practices a few years back.

There is also not enough White Australians to fill the positions in Melbourne that where previously mentioned. The service industry requirements are vast and the local population does not have the manpower.

Everyone currently migrating or has migrated to Australia did so because they like the lifestyle and basic feel of the place. Any migration policy simply has to ensure that the stream of new arrivals simply flows in at a pace that does not start to change the look and feel of the country dramatically. Because nobody including the new arrivals want that.

Lets face it if you ran the place like Afganistan how many Afghans would migrate here? None because the place would be a kip and we would all be screaming to get out.

Islamization can never happen here because it would have to be voted in and in a country where every woman has a vote thats not going to happen.

At the end of the day Australia can stop importing people whenever they like, and I assume they have more accurate projection figures than we do. When this happens nobody that's on the Aussie side of the door will care.

Good post Zambia...

mandrake04

macca1983 wrote: »

I'd have to agree. I only spent 6 weeks in Australia but i've never come across a more racist bunch of people, and i've spent quite a bit of time in South Africa.

Can you give us some examples of these racist people, how they were racist and where they were from?

Sometimes culture-ism can be mistaken for racism..... but they are far from the same thing.

m@cc@

mandrake04 wrote: »

Can you give us some examples of these racist people, how they were racist and where they were from?

Sometimes culture-ism can be mistaken for racism..... but they are far from the same thing.

I can give you an example off the top of my head, the term 'wog' is a perfectly acceptable word to use in Australian language.

Zambia

Whats wrong with wog? :eek:

Thats not racist at all, its not PC and you should not say it on telly (you listening Clare Webbelhof).

But its not that bad.

brendansmith

m@cc@ wrote: »

I can give you an example off the top of my head, the term 'wog' is a perfectly acceptable word to use in Australian language.

Wog referrs to Greeks and Italians and not Black people.

Australians are laid back about stuff like that, Greeks and Italian even refer to themselves as wogs sometimes. Its not taken very seriously. Its used in the films 'The castle' and more recently 'Mary and Max'

Ireland is quite racist aswell you know.

mandrake04

CJhaughey wrote: »

Australia was based on killing the native population off and thereby taking the land by force, any that were not killed off were stuck in remote areas like Arnhem land with a lot of cheap grog to finish the job.
Australia has no formal recognition of the original inhabitants rights as regards land and that is the heart of the problem.
Then you have the White Australia Policy et al.

That might be true but in a time when people where quite ignorant...

I often look at reasonable theories as why this is...

It has only been in recent times that Charles Darwin's Natural selection has been accepted.....


and if you think about modern humans killed off Neanderthals as part of natural selection 30,000 years ago and would be a natural trait .....humans (and animals) are instinctively programmed to destroy/kill something that could be a threat to their survival.

The Neanderthals were 99% same DNA as Modern humans but their physical appearance was slightly different and the Humans wiped them out because they looked different and was easily identifiable as a different tribe.....


In Australia ......white man shows up 200 years ago thinks black man is a threat starts a system of killing them off.... Black man thinks same thing.... kills the white man back.

White man had rifle... black man had spear.

back then was it racism or natural selection?

Off course today through science we know better .........we accept we all came from the same bacteria.

So do racists hate other race of people because they look different? or is it natural selection.


Not my opinion just a rambling theory based on science

mandrake04

m@cc@ wrote: »

I can give you an example off the top of my head, the term 'wog' is a perfectly acceptable word to use in Australian language.

When I first heard that one it surprised me too....

But like Brendan says it refers to people from a mediterranean background and is usually used in the same context as

A skip--- Aussie

A paddy or Mick -- Irishman

Kiwi-- NZ person

Pom -- Englishman.


A wog in Ireland is usually referred to as a gollywog or the little Black man on the pot of marmalade

mandrake04

brendansmith wrote: »

Wog referrs to Greeks and Italians and not Black people.

Australians are laid back about stuff like that, Greeks and Italian even refer to themselves as wogs sometimes. Its not taken very seriously. Its used in the films 'The castle' and more recently 'Mary and Max'

Ireland is quite racist aswell you know.

How about the film titled The Wog Boy?

jank

Zambia232 wrote: »

Whats wrong with wog? :eek:

Thats not racist at all, its not PC and you should not say it on telly (you listening Clare Webbelhof).

But its not that bad.

Not the worst word in the world to use but you wouldn't go up to someone of Mediterranean descent on the street and call him a wog unless you have an inclination for fights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog#As_an_ethnic_reference_in_Australian_English.

Wog is also an ethnic slur in Australian English to denote immigrants of predominately Middle Eastern and eastern or southern European origin.

The "ethnic" character of the term "wog" came into popular use in the 1950s when Australia accepted large numbers of immigrants from Mediterranean/Eastern European countries, in contrast to the then overwhelmingly dominant ethnic Anglo-Celtic stock of the population. Although originally used pejoratively, the term is increasingly used more affectionately, especially by the individuals the term is used to describe.

The term "wogball" refers to soccer, association football, coming from its popularity among such people. Australians of Anglo-Celtic ancestry traditionally favour the games of Rugby football and Australian Rules, although this is a generalisation.

The term was often used in popular Australian comedy Kingswood Country between 1979-84 and was used in a sense that was sometimes pejorative, sometimes affectionate and sometimes neutral.

The word was prominently used in the popular early 1990s stage show Wogs Out of Work, created by Greek-Australian Nick Giannopoulos and Spanish-Australian Simon Palomares. The production was followed on television with Acropolis Now, starring Giannopoulos, Palomares, George Kapiniaris and Mary Coustas, and in film with The Wog Boy.

Nevertheless, the term remains quite offensive to a lot of people in Australia, particularly people of Southeastern European and Eastern European origin who grew up in Australia through the 1950s to 1980s as it was still very much an ethnic slur or insult.

The derogatory nature of the term when used as an ethnic slur largely succeeded in overtaking and driving out use of the term Wog to describe illness or undesirable insects.

brendansmith

mandrake04 wrote: »

How about the film titled The Wog Boy?

Yeah sure, when are you free?

jank

In Australia ......white man shows up 200 years ago thinks black man is a threat starts a system of killing them off.... Black man thinks same thing.... kills the white man back.

White man had rifle... black man had spear.

back then was it racism or natural selection?

Off course today through science we know better .........we accept we all came from the same bacteria.

So do racists hate other race of people because they look different? or is it natural selection.

Sounds like a pi$$ poor excuse to me as an attempt to justify what happened and we all know who was doing the killing.....

Like, its not as if Aborigines enjoy a good quality of life now and everybody are now friends.

hussey

Zambia232 wrote: »

Whats wrong with wog? :eek:

Thats not racist at all, its not PC and you should not say it on telly (you listening Clare Webbelhof).

But its not that bad.

Wog is like calling someone a paddy - it identifies where you come from
It generally is regarded as a ethnic slur on people mainly from middle east, or south europe (greece, croatia etc)

I personally wouldn't call people it, as I don't like when people call me paddy
but I don't think it is generally 'offensive'

listermint

I do have to say of the time i spent in Australia i found the majority of people to be openly racist. Now im all for joking around but some of it just made me cringe seriously.

Met some Australian guys in a hostel in Miami randomly and guess what?
very racist. But again i dont like to tar everyone, but this is based on my
first hand experience.

mandrake04

jank wrote: »

Sounds like a pi$$ poor excuse to me as an attempt to justify what happened and we all know who was doing the killing.....

Like, its not as if Aborigines enjoy a good quality of life now and everybody are now friends.

Hey I am not trying to Justify anything or make any excuses..... it was only a theory as to why racism exists in the first place.

Like what makes people hate other people just because they are a different colour?

And by the way racism is not always carried out by the wihite race..... there are plenty of cases where racism has been caried out by coloured people.

Rosita

jank wrote: »

Personally I think its a bad thing that white people outnumber Aborigines.

This is an interesting view from someone who says to another person a few posts later "you are coming across as racist".

Your own view implies that one race is superior to another so it's probably best to avoid playing the racist card.

jank

mandrake04 wrote: »

Hey I am not trying to Justify anything or make any excuses..... it was only a theory as to why racism exists in the first place.

Like what makes people hate other people just because they are a different colour?

And by the way racism is not always carried out by the wihite race..... there are plenty of cases where racism has been caried out by coloured people.

A read of the first quarter of this book.
http://www.amazon.com/War-World-Niall-Ferguson/dp/0143112392
Explains alot of what goes on when "races" mix and the subsequent outcomes, which often are not pretty.

jank

Rosita wrote: »

This is an interesting view from someone who says to another person a few posts later "you are coming across as racist".

Your own view implies that one race is superior to another so it's probably best to avoid playing the racist card.

Where ever did I say or even imply that one race is superior to another? Please quote me on that.

I was stating the fact Aborigines were the original inhabitants of Australia which was basically stolen from them by white Anglo-Celtic settlers, hence why they are in the minority. If my previous quote didn't make that clear than this post will.

macca1983

mandrake04 wrote: »

Can you give us some examples of these racist people, how they were racist and where they were from?

Sometimes culture-ism can be mistaken for racism..... but they are far from the same thing.

Culture-ism my arse. This was openly racist. What i found most surprising was their openness about it. I think many of them were so ignorant they didn't even realise they were being racist.

Generally it happened in a social occasion ie people just sitting around having a chat. They honestly think Aboriginals are sub-human. The way they speak about them is frightening. I hate to generalise and call Australia a very racist country but i experienced it a number of times with a number of different Australians.

mandrake04

jank wrote: »

A read of the first quarter of this book.
http://www.amazon.com/War-World-Niall-Ferguson/dp/0143112392
Explains alot of what goes on when "races" mix and the subsequent outcomes, which often are not pretty.

Ok thanks for that I will..... Is the rest of the book intresting or just the first quarter

mandrake04

macca1983 wrote: »

Culture-ism my arse. This was openly racist. What i found most surprising was their openness about it. I think many of them were so ignorant they didn't even realise they were being racist.

Generally it happened in a social occasion ie people just sitting around having a chat. They honestly think Aboriginals are sub-human. The way they speak about them is frightening. I hate to generalise and call Australia a very racist country but i experienced it a number of times with a number of different Australians.

Look I been here for 5 years and I have heard odd remarks about Aboriginals having drink problems or stealing stuff to buy drink...Have been warned where not to park the car......... but never heard anyone mention that they are sub-human.

You must just socialise with the wrong type of people Im afraid....

macca1983

mandrake04 wrote: »

Look I been here for 5 years and I have heard odd remarks about Aboriginals having drink problems or stealing stuff to buy drink...Have been warned where not to park the car......... but never heard anyone mention that they are sub-human.

You must just socialise with the wrong type of people Im afraid....

Don't be afraid.

I just felt that the Australian attitude towards the Aboriginals was awful and racist. This was my experience and i came it across it a number of times when i travelled through the country. I am not exactly alone in this thinking.

jank

mandrake04 wrote: »

Ok thanks for that I will..... Is the rest of the book intresting or just the first quarter

No its a class book, just he doesnt stay on the topic of race and miscegenation for the whole book. It can be pretty grim in parts though.

Generally anything from Neil Fergusan is well written, presented and easy enough to read. Although he himself can come across as smug on TV.

If you are into that type of subject matter this book was reccommended to me by a few people as THE book to read.

http://books.google.com/books?id=8f2y0F2wzLoC&dq=Hannah+Arendt,+Origins+of+Totalitarianism&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=mBbFSsSLBqfk6gPRt7mnDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

moe_sizlak

macca1983 wrote: »

Don't be afraid.

I just felt that the Australian attitude towards the Aboriginals was awful and racist. This was my experience and i came it across it a number of times when i travelled through the country. I am not exactly alone in this thinking.

just out of curiosity , how would you regard the majority view in ireland towards travellers

mike65

I'd say Australias population problems are going to be defined by water not race.

Zambia

macca1983 wrote: »

Don't be afraid.

I just felt that the Australian attitude towards the Aboriginals was awful and racist. This was my experience and i came it across it a number of times when i travelled through the country. I am not exactly alone in this thinking.

I always think its very close to the Irish attitude to Travellers in a lot of cases.

I am curious though what should their attitude be?