Australia sleepwalking into population disaster.....

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

LOL. Did you even read the article? They have a guy from Ireland and Britain giving comments about this problem in....., you guessed it Ireland and Britain but no one commenting from Australia, so a problem is happening in country A so it must also be happening in country X. It doesn't mention Australia once. Hmmmm, no you need to do better than that.

Are you serious? I even quoted the part where it refers to Australia.

jank wrote: »

Dont give up the day job.

Very constructive sir

jank wrote: »

So basically its bad for Australia because they don't speak "Australian" and they dont look white oh and add in a sprinkle of islamaphobia. Nice! Irony isn't lost on you is it!

Saying that I agree that the values of Australia which is mostly based on Anglo-Saxon capitalism should not be changed but there is no proof that a more Asian Australia will do that. Christ, look and China and Japan, they work their bollox off to get where they are today. Although I am confused, what Asian values are bad?

I dont know whats going on here. Is this a joke on me? What in gods name are you talking about???????

jank

Doc wrote: »

How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another doesn’t make sense at all and is just wrong?.

It means what I said. One does not emigrate to a country and then say you are no longer Irish, Korean, Indian. That stays with you until you die. However, efforts on the induviduals part must also entail the learning of the native language, skills to put to work etc. Having a bunch of Vietnamese sitting around the place all day playing mah jong drinking Bai Hoi is no good to anyone. Having a bunch of Vietnamese setting up shops selling local Vietnamese food, cuisine, grafting a living so that their kids can go do university and get the best out of Australia/NZ/Ireland is what one wants to see happen. Yet you complain about that? Do you want to to start wearing khaki shorts and go crocodile hunting and say "Crikey Mate!"

Doc wrote: »

In regards to your question about the Irish bar I do see it as a way of Irish people isolating themselves from the culture of the countries they are in and although I see the value for a traveler like myself who may feel homesick I rarely attend them unless I want to see a game that I couldn’t see elsewhere. However I do feel your point is slightly unsound as you do not see a whole road full of Irish pubs, shops restraints and shops in any city in the world outside of Ireland and if you did yes it would be wrong..

About 100 years ago in the states this would have happened. Didn't seem to cause too much problems there. The area where St Patrick's cathedral in New York was built was originally Irish, they then moved on and in came the Italians and so on now the area is mostly commercial with offices.

The east end in London is similar, Huguenots, Irish, Jews and now Bengali have lived there and moved on. The movement of people is a fact of life. People will live with like minded and like cultured people but as they settle they will melt into the wider community. It has been going on since year dot.

Doc wrote: »

No I don’t think its OK to colonize a country and export a culture to it as well (I had thought I was pretty clear on this) and don’t think it was right that it happened to Australia or New Zealand. However we can not change what happened hundreds of years in the past but we can learn from the mistakes which where made. The fact is that settlers and convicts from the UK and Ireland did come here and exported there culture here. .

I agree but the irony is sometimes lost on people that are now saying "no more" while your average Aborigine is dying before they reach their 50's.

Doc wrote: »

Your point about roman numerals, ogham stones and goats cheese is ridicules culture is not the same thing as knowledge and one dose not necessarily have to change it because of a development in the other..

Oh but it is, the movement of people has brought about the sharing of knowledge. The 2 are one and the same. Human capital is the number one thing that drives the world. Read some history books and you will see what I am saying is correct. Look at the roman empire, the British empire even the American "empire" of today. Of course not as obvious in todays internet world.

Doc wrote: »

I think my previous post was pretty clear but that you where too high up on that horse of yours to read it properly and appreciate that a view of the world that is different then your own can be valid..

Now now, play the ball not the man:pac:

Doc wrote: »

I believe one of the great things about this world is that there is so much cultural diversity from country to country and would like it to continue.

And letting a few Asians into Australia is not going to to lead to a homogeneous world. This is what I dont like, taking a valid point but running a million miles with it to get across a point of view that is extreme and bares no validity to the original point.

If you again refer to my very very first post on this topic.

Well its just a fact of life. The states will probably be hispanic but neither of these are bad things IMO.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Are you serious? I even quoted the part where it refers to Australia.

Australia is refereed to once in the very first sentence but the rest of the story about 10 paragraphs long is all about Britain and Ireland.....

brendansmith wrote: »

I dont know whats going on here. Is this a joke on me? What in gods name are you talking about???????

Plainly words with more than 3 syllables is too much for you to handle. I wont be wasting anymore time on this subject with you as you have already shown your true colors.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Australia is refereed to once in the very first sentence but the rest of the story about 10 paragraphs long is all about Britain and Ireland......

I think you may have missed Traq's post.

jank wrote: »

Mindless nonsense rambling is too much for you to handle.

True

jank wrote: »

I wont be wasting anymore time on this subject with you as you have already shown your true colors.

MODS!! Hes calling me a racist again!!

jank

Traq wrote: »

Not taking sides here but just wanted to point out that BrendanSmith does have a valid point with regard to certain 'schools' offering certs and degrees for cash to enable students to gain PR.

It has been documented in the media over here.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rogue-college-faces-melbourne-audit-20080811-3tms.html

and

http://www.fisa.org.au/node/130

Thanks for that. How many people though have used this as a way of getting citizenship? Those articles dont mention it.

I doubt that this is a scam that has been used by thousands never minds hundreds to get citizenship. Kinda like the story that went around Ireland that refuges got free money, free houses and free cars!

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Thanks for that. How many people though have used this as a way of getting citizenship? Those articles dont mention it.

I doubt that this is a scam that has been used by thousands never minds hundreds to get citizenship. Kinda like the story that went around Ireland that refuges got free money, free houses and free cars!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/blitz-on-foreign-students-to-screen-out-visa-fraud-20090820-es3r.html

If you are in Austalia legally for 4 years you can apply for citizenship. Thats what alot of foreign students from the like of Indonsia have told me they have done.

Doc

jank wrote: »

It means what I said. One does not emigrate to a country and then say you are no longer Irish, Korean, Indian. That stays with you until you die. However, efforts on the induviduals part must also entail the learning of the native language, skills to put to work etc. Having a bunch of Vietnamese sitting around the place all day playing mah jong drinking Bai Hoi is no good to anyone. Having a bunch of Vietnamese setting up shops selling local Vietnamese food, cuisine, grafting a living so that their kids can go do university and get the best out of Australia/NZ/Ireland is what one wants to see happen. Yet you complain about that? Do you want to to start wearing khaki shorts and go crocodile hunting and say "Crikey Mate!"

Oh is that what I complained about?

If I ever chose to emigrate to this counter then I believe I would be Australian. I would have chosen that I did not wish to live in Ireland and that I wanted to be an Australian because for whatever reason being an Australian would be better for me.

I believe that if you chose to come to another country to live you should not try and rebuild your old country in the new. I am apposed to whole areas that are in the majority occupied by immigrants from one country in another. As I said the shops in my area sell Vietnamese products with nearly everything writhen in Vietnamese in the shops, this means that only people who can read Vietnamese can comfortably shop there. By living and working in these areas and not people do not integrate into the society they have chosen to join and this is what I would complain about. For example only yesterday I walking into a butchers in my area and did not know what cut of meet was being sold because the language that it is displayed in is indecipherable to me. The butcher also only spoke very basic pigeon English.

No I do not wish anyone to be a stereotype and think you’re probably just being facetious but yes I would like any emigrant to try and take up an interest in the culture and activities of the country they have come to.

jank wrote: »

About 100 years ago in the states this would have happened. Didn't seem to cause too much problems there. The area where St Patrick's cathedral in New York was built was originally Irish, they then moved on and in came the Italians and so on now the area is mostly commercial with offices.

The east end in London is similar, Huguenots, Irish, Jews and now Bengali have lived there and moved on. The movement of people is a fact of life. People will live with like minded and like cultured people but as they settle they will melt into the wider community. It has been going on since year dot.

Are you kidding? You don’t think Ghettoization cause too much problems? You are simply wrong and just because something has been happening a long time dose not mean it’s a good thing.

jank wrote: »

Oh but it is, the movement of people has brought about the sharing of knowledge. The 2 are one and the same. Human capital is the number one thing that drives the world. Read some history books and you will see what I am saying is correct. Look at the roman empire, the British empire even the American "empire" of today. Of course not as obvious in todays internet world.

People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

jank wrote: »

Now now, play the ball not the man

From your reply’s to many people here it would appear that I am a kettle and you are a pot who is calling me black.

jank wrote: »

And letting a few Asians into Australia is not going to to lead to a homogeneous world. This is what I dont like, taking a valid point but running a million miles with it to get across a point of view that is extreme and bares no validity to the original point.

If you again refer to my very very first post on this topic.

How many do you consider to be just a few? Major City’s across the world are already starting to seem homogenized. How is my view extreme? I didn’t once say Asians should not be allowed come into the country

Look basically I know the world is changing and I do think that people should be allowed go and live wherever they want as long as they contribute to that society but I am also aware that eventually it will result in a homogeneous world. I think that immigrants from anywhere too anywhere else should try and integrate and adapt to that country.

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

If you are in Austalia legally for 4 years you can apply for citizenship. Thats what alot of foreign students from the like of Indonsia have told me they have done.

yes the student visa thing is a well known way of getting a migrant visa- but this is alot different than citizenship. you need to have a migrant visa 4 years before citizenship

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

yes the student visa thing is a well known way of getting a migrant visa- but this is alot different than citizenship. you need to have a migrant visa 4 years before citizenship

Yes and a college course is 4 years generally. Unless i missing somthing here.

brendansmith

brendansmith wrote: »

Yes and a college course is 4 years generally. Unless i missing somthing here.

Besides an 'e' :pac:

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

If you are in Austalia legally for 4 years you can apply for citizenship. Thats what alot of foreign students from the like of Indonsia have told me they have done.

hussey wrote:

yes the student visa thing is a well known way of getting a migrant visa

brendansmith wrote: »

Yes and a college course is 4 years generally. Unless i missing something here.

You can apply for a migrant visa not a Citizenship.
They are different.
You need to go student->migrant->citizenship

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

You can apply for a migrant visa not a Citizenship.
They are different.
You need to go student->migrant->citizenship

Ahhhhhh gotcha!

BraziliaNZ

why doesn't someone try importing western values and people to China or Vietnam, and see where it gets you? Human rights maybe? My girlfriend (at the time) was spat at 3 or 4 times on the streets in Korea because she had blonde hair, never understood that one. They wouldn't put up with it at all. White-guilt means countries like Australia are supposed to take whatever immigrants are thrown at them, no matter what way they want to live, all in the name of PC.
I'm not Australian and don't live there anymore but it's a well run country and I don't like to see it being turned into a racially divided country, they'll be having race riots like the ones in Paris before we know it.

jank

Doc wrote: »

Oh is that what I complained about?

Well yes you did you said.

Why is cultural diversity always seen as such a good thing? I don’t think that it is particularly. It only results in the blurring and diluting of cultures and results in the world being a less interesting place overall. I don’t like the idea that everywhere will eventually be all the same. It will make for a really boring world.

Basically multi culturalism is a bad thing.

Doc wrote: »

If I ever chose to emigrate to this counter then I believe I would be Australian. I would have chosen that I did not wish to live in Ireland and that I wanted to be an Australian because for whatever reason being an Australian would be better for me.

Emigrating is one thing, giving up your nationality is another and tbh it doesn't make sense. Anyway your new country folk would still call you an Irish lad till the day you die. Would you give up your Irish passport? I doubt it!

Doc wrote: »

I believe that if you chose to come to another country to live you should not try and rebuild your old country in the new. I am apposed to whole areas that are in the majority occupied by immigrants from one country in another. As I said the shops in my area sell Vietnamese products with nearly everything writhen in Vietnamese in the shops, this means that only people who can read Vietnamese can comfortably shop there. By living and working in these areas and not people do not integrate into the society they have chosen to join and this is what I would complain about. For example only yesterday I walking into a butchers in my area and did not know what cut of meet was being sold because the language that it is displayed in is indecipherable to me. The butcher also only spoke very basic pigeon English.

OK one solution to this is don't shop there. Go to a butcher that has an english menu. That should solve all your problems. Supply and demand and market forces over time will dictate that they show their menus in english.

Doc wrote: »

Are you kidding? You don’t think Ghettoization cause too much problems? You are simply wrong and just because something has been happening a long time dose not mean it’s a good thing.

Immigrants living in a particular area does not automatically make it a ghetto. I have never heard the areas like the east end, hells kitchen or china town being called a ghetto or at least in the traditional sense where ghettos are poverty stricken hell holes where crime is rife. Anyway you missed the point completely.

Doc wrote: »

People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

Who is saying you have to change your way of life? I never did and I don't think your local Vietnamese butcher is trying to change your way of life either.

Doc wrote: »

From your reply’s to many people here it would appear that I am a kettle and you are a pot who is calling me black.

No, we have a difference on opinion and I am calling you up on some of the points you are making. Trying to brush it off as anything else looks like playing the victim.

Doc wrote: »

How many do you consider to be just a few? Major City’s across the world are already starting to seem homogenized. How is my view extreme? I didn’t once say Asians should not be allowed come into the country

What do you consider too many?
What major cities? Can you give an example?
You didn't say they shouldn't be allowed in but you are saying there are too many of them.

Doc wrote: »

Look basically I know the world is changing and I do think that people should be allowed go and live wherever they want as long as they contribute to that society but I am also aware that eventually it will result in a homogeneous world. I think that immigrants from anywhere too anywhere else should try and integrate and adapt to that country.

So you agree that this is all just a fact of life and will continue weather we like it or not.

jank

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

why doesn't someone try importing western values and people to China or Vietnam, and see where it gets you? Human rights maybe?

I suppose you have missed the last 20 years and the capitalist economic boom that is happening in Asia at the moment. Is that not western enough for you. Cars, Starbucks, McDonalds, Mass Media, Western clothing and fashion, Skyscrapers, Millionaires buying their Porches, Executives buying their condos.... the list goes on and on. All Asian I suppose. :rolleyes:

Oh and plenty of westerns working in both these countries.


Human rights has a problem in China alright but that is more of a politcol issue not a cultural issue. Some Asian countries like Japan, Korea have a faultless human rights record much better than say the US.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

My girlfriend (at the time) was spat at 3 or 4 times on the streets in Korea because she had blonde hair, never understood that one. They wouldn't put up with it at all.

In my travels I meet a blonde hair Canadian girl who taught there for 2 years and see loved the place. No spitting incidents reported. You must have been unlucky unless she was walking around in her bra all the time.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

White-guilt means countries like Australia are supposed to take whatever immigrants are thrown at them, no matter what way they want to live, all in the name of PC.

Oh please stop, just stop and save it for some right wing website. I am white and have never felt guilty of it nor was it ever implied upon me.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I'm not Australian and don't live there anymore but it's a well run country and I don't like to see it being turned into a racially divided country, they'll be having race riots like the ones in Paris before we know it.

Riots like those in Paris, Bradford, Brixton et al are mostly to do with socio economic reasons rather than race. Doesn't excuse it but there is more than meets the eye. Read up on the riots in Singapore about 50 years back and the efforts made by the government to include everyone into the social fabric of the country. Singapore now has 4 official languages, this should give you a clue on how they did this.

Anyway say what you about the Asians but they work their asses where ever they go and would much rather a bunch of them in Ireland than some social welfare grabbing lazy roma gypsies. That PC enough for you:pac:

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

multi culturalism is a bad thing.

No its not, this statement is wrong

jank wrote: »

is one thing, giving up your nationality is another and tbh it doesn't make sense. Anyway your new country folk would still call you an Irish lad till the day you die. Would you give up your Irish passport? I doubt it!

Id swop my Irish passport for an Australian in a heartbeat

jank wrote: »

is saying you have to change your way of life? I never did and I don't think your local Vietnamese butcher is trying to change your way of life either.

Nobody is saying that Vietnamese butchers are changing peoples lives. They sell meat.

jank wrote: »

you agree that this is all just a fact of life and will continue weather we like it or not.

Everybody agrees with this.

watna

jank wrote: »

If you have nothing to add to the topic then pi$$ off.

brendansmith wrote: »

Oh youre so mean. What a horrid thing to say. Well I never!

Boys behave please... and that goes out to other posters too. I know it is an emotive topic but we can be civil to each other.

I'm watching this thread carefully and will lock it if it gets out of hand.

Thanks.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

No its not, this statement is wrong.

You do like to contradict yourself dont you.

IMO, they are.....very bad.

I would hate to see the asians outnumber white Australians tbh, I can see it happening and i dont like it.

brendansmith wrote: »

Id swop my Irish passport for an Australian in a heartbeat.

Fair enough but you would give up your status as a EU citizen too.

brendansmith wrote: »

Nobody is saying that Vietnamese butchers are changing peoples lives. They sell meat..

Not butchers per say but Vietnamese and Asian people generally are going by this post below.

People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

brendansmith wrote: »

Everybody agrees with this.

Refer again to my very first post.

brendansmith

38141 wrote: »

Bofore the century is out australia will truly be asian, not just geographically, if ya know what I mean!

jank wrote: »

Well its just a fact of life. The states will probably be hispanic but neither of these are bad things IMO.

Done.

Refered to your first post.
You said that you think that you think that Australia becoming entirely asian and America becoming entirely Hispanic are good things.

Entirely Asian and hispanic is not the same as multicultural.

You have been ranting contradiction after contradiction, twisting and turning everyones comments and annoying every other poster with your rubbish.
Maybe you should just give it a rest.

Doc

jank wrote: »

Well yes you did you said.

"Why is cultural diversity always seen as such a good thing? I don’t think that it is particularly. It only results in the blurring and diluting of cultures and results in the world being a less interesting place overall. I don’t like the idea that everywhere will eventually be all the same. It will make for a really boring world."

Basically multi culturalism is a bad thing.

Yes I said that however this is not what you made out I “complained” about but apparently actually debating what I said was more difficult. Even your response here is not what you told me I was complaining about what I said was…

“How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another doesn’t make sense at all and is just wrong?.”

If I was complaining at all I was complaining about the lack of integration of some immigrants who chose to live and work in area of their new country that is almost entirely composed of people, shops, restraints and bars just as it would be in their old country transporting their entire culture from one area to another and ignoring the existing culture of the country. I suppose I would also have been complaining about the fact that you where contradicting yourself.

What Brendansmith said is true you are trying to twist and turn what everyone has said who dose not agree with your opinions into something they are not.

jank wrote: »

OK one solution to this is don't shop there. Go to a butcher that has an english menu. That should solve all your problems. Supply and demand and market forces over time will dictate that they show their menus in english.

So would you say this to an 80 year old Australian woman who has lived in that suburb her whole life? Don’t shop here! The national language is English. The shopkeeper has made the choice to come to a country where English is the national language and at the least he should display in both languages.

jank wrote: »

Immigrants living in a particular area does not automatically make it a ghetto. I have never heard the areas like the east end, hells kitchen or china town being called a ghetto or at least in the traditional sense where ghettos are poverty stricken hell holes where crime is rife. Anyway you missed the point completely.

No I think you missed the point and the fact that you never heard that an area that is called Hells Kitchen was a ghetto and a slum is laughable.

jank wrote: »

No, we have a difference on opinion and I am calling you up on some of the points you are making. Trying to brush it off as anything else looks like playing the victim.

If you actually called me up on the points I made that would be one thing but you don’t.

jank wrote: »

What do you consider too many?

I asked you how many do you consider to be just a few? A few means a small number or amount. I live in Melbourne and there are more then a few Asian people living here. I have never once said that I thought too many Asian people lived here I have been purely talking about the cultural impact of people not adapting to the country they have emigrated to.

jank wrote: »

What major cities? Can you give an example?

My God you do need to be walked through everything don’t you. From London to New York and pretty much every major city in the world the shops are all stating to become the same from Boots in Bangkok to Kmart here in Melbourne and Starbucks and McDonalds all over the world the uniqueness of different cities is slowly disappearing. Also as people from all over the world are attracted to the big cities the diversity of the population becomes gather and it becomes harder and harder to distinguish a large city in on country from that of another.

jank wrote: »

You didn't say they shouldn't be allowed in but you are saying there are too many of them.

Tell me once when I said this!

Doc

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendansmith
Nobody is saying that Vietnamese butchers are changing peoples lives. They sell meat..

Not butchers per say but Vietnamese and Asian people generally are going by this post below.

Quote:
People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

Im sorry but you have quoted me here trying to support your argument when it clearly dose not. It says people can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life how on earth dose this equate to Vietnamese and Asian people are changing our life?

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Done.

Refered to your first post.
You said that you think that you think that Australia becoming entirely asian and America becoming entirely Hispanic are good things.

Entirely Asian and hispanic is not the same as multicultural.

You have been ranting contradiction after contradiction, twisting and turning everyones comments and annoying every other poster with your rubbish.
Maybe you should just give it a rest.

Nice little PR job. I DID NOT QUOTE from 38141's post in my first post. I was posting to the OP.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62197198&postcount=3

Also I fail to see where I said that Australia being entirely Asian or American being entirely Hispanic.

There is a differnce between a country that is 99% Asian/Hispanic (which you are imlpying) and Asian/Hispanic being in the majority i.e they are a greater % of the population than than the current majority (whites).

Kalashnikov_Kid

Maybe Oz could take a leaf out of Toronto's book (and Canada in general).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto

Nearly half the population are born outside of Canada.

Didn't see any race riots last time I was there. You have 'Chinatown', 'Koreatown', 'Greektown', 'Portuguese Town' etc. and it seems to work fine. Racial tension is very low. The "melting pot" philosophy actually works here, as people by enlarge are tolerant of race.

No one is under any pressure to be 'Canadian', and rightly so IMO.

There's alot of scaremongering going on here. Or maybe Irish pubs shouldn't be tolerated anymore either.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Nice little PR job. I DID NOT QUOTE from 38141's post in my first post. I was posting to the OP.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62197198&postcount=3

Also I fail to see where I said that Australia being entirely Asian or American being entirely Hispanic.

There is a differnce between a country that is 99% Asian/Hispanic (which you are imlpying) and Asian/Hispanic being in the majority i.e they are a greater % of the population than than the current majority (whites).

Youre caught out and you know it!! :D

You are once again twisting and turning. There is no way youre responding to the OPs post.

jank

Doc wrote: »

Yes I said that however this is not what you made out I “complained” about but apparently actually debating what I said was more difficult. Even your response here is not what you told me I was complaining about what I said was…

“How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another dozen’t make sense at all and is just wrong?.”

If I was complaining at all I was complaining about the lack of integration of some immigrants who chose to live and work in area of their new country that is almost entirely composed of people, shops, restraints and bars just as it would be in their old country transporting their entire culture from one area to another and ignoring the existing culture of the country. I suppose I would also have been complaining about the fact that you where contradicting yourself.

What Brendansmith said is true you are trying to twist and turn what everyone has said who dose not agree with your opinions into something they are not.!

Well first of all I am not twisting anything, I am just calling people up as they make comments that are not thought through and getting them to backup comments made by facts.

You do by the way have in one sense a valid complaint about integration of migrants. Efforts must be made by community leaders and the state to help migrants integrate into their new country but you cant just tell them who they areas they sign a piece of paper.

At the end of the day the state cant force you to speak a language, cant force you to live in a certain area, cant force you not to open a shop that sells food from the old country. Australia is not a communist country where there is a quota on the number of Vietnamese butchers allowed to operate in a certain area or district. Market forces will dictate where there are too few or too many of these shops.

But I am all ears. What would you propose to solve this?

Doc wrote: »

So would you say this to an 80 year old Australian woman who has lived in that suburb her whole life? Don’t shop here! The national language is English. The shopkeeper has made the choice to come to a country where English is the national language and at the least he should display in both languages.!

The shop keeper has within his rights to put up any language in his displays he wishes. Who are you to tell him otherwise?

I refer you to the Department of Immigration

Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/multicultural/confer/04/speech18b.htm. Retrieved 2009-01-11. "English has no de jure status but it is so entrenched as the common language that it is de facto the official language as well as the national language."

Also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Australia

Yes English is the main language of the country but it is by Law "Not" the official language but is by proxy same as the States. You want to know why?

Doc wrote: »

No I think you missed the point and the fact that you never heard that an area that is called Hells Kitchen was a ghetto and a slum is laughable.!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell's_Kitchen,_Manhattan
Find the word Ghetto in that posting and I will agree with you otherwise....

However, you are looking at this from a very black and white viewpoint.

Where you rather immigrants move to? Would you scatter them all around the place into more well to do areas. If you do that the NIMBYS will say I dont want those poor immigrants driving down the price of my property. You cant win! What is your cure all solution?

Immigrants will move to an area for a number of reason but those reason are mostly economical (Cheap rents) and social (like minded cultural people). As immigrants move up the social ladder and garner success they generally melt away into the wider community.There are hundreds of examples of this.

Doc wrote: »

If you actually called me up on the points I made that would be one thing but you don’t.!

What am i doing here, playing footsie?

Doc wrote: »

I asked you how many do you consider to be just a few? A few means a small number or amount. I live in Melbourne and there are more then a few Asian people living here. I have never once said that I thought too many Asian people lived here I have been purely talking about the cultural impact of people not adapting to the country they have emigrated to.!

A few or many. It doesn't matter to me if they are green, yellow or blue once they adhere to the strict Australian Immigration guidelines and have some skills and go to work. If over an extended period of time that a few, due to the compound laws of nature this turn into loads than thats the way it is, but I don't see that as bad thing! Its just the way it is.

Doc wrote: »

My God you do need to be walked through everything don’t you. From London to New York and pretty much every major city in the world the shops are all stating to become the same from Boots in Bangkok to Kmart here in Melbourne and Starbucks and McDonalds all over the world the uniqueness of different cities is slowly disappearing.!

OK for one that is not cultural, that is globalization and capitalism you know this distinctly western phenomenon we have that we exported all around the world.......

But I do agree that having boots in Bangkok and a 7/11 in every street corner is not a good thing. But as I said this is neither here nor there. In fact this makes a stronger case for people to keep their cultures, identify with the old country, their history as they emigrate from one country to another. This is what many of these Asians are doing, they are setting up their own shops that are not a corporate western brand. Would you like it if the Vietnamese butcher turned into a starbucks? No matter how hard I try but I cant shop in a Vietnamese butcher in Christchurch or Cork but I can sure as hell buy many a starbucks coffee.

If they just dumped their culture as soon as they arrived in a new country sure we would all be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand. Is that what you want? Sorry, but Ill take my Chinatowns dotted here and there over dull boring and bland globalization any day.

Doc wrote: »

Also as people from all over the world are attracted to the big cities the diversity of the population becomes gather and it becomes harder and harder to distinguish a large city in on country from that of another. .!

I don't think anyone that landed in New York had thought to themselves"Christ this looks like London!";)

Doc wrote: »

Tell me once when I said this!

Here.

I actually believe cultural diversity can have a very negative affect on a country.

If cultural diversity is negative than obviously to stop this one needs to stop immigrants that are culturally diverse entering into the country. Thus we stop what was negative. I cant put it more simply.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Youre caught out and you know it!! :D

You are once again twisting and turning. There is no way youre responding to the OPs post.

Yes I was responding the the flying spaghetti monster and not the OP;)

Zambia

Is Australia walking into a population disaster well I don't think so. i think we need a few more citys though.

It's also a well known fact about the cash for courses, there was several raids on schools in Dublin operating the same such practices a few years back.

There is also not enough White Australians to fill the positions in Melbourne that where previously mentioned. The service industry requirements are vast and the local population does not have the manpower.

Everyone currently migrating or has migrated to Australia did so because they like the lifestyle and basic feel of the place. Any migration policy simply has to ensure that the stream of new arrivals simply flows in at a pace that does not start to change the look and feel of the country dramatically. Because nobody including the new arrivals want that.

Lets face it if you ran the place like Afganistan how many Afghans would migrate here? None because the place would be a kip and we would all be screaming to get out.

Islamization can never happen here because it would have to be voted in and in a country where every woman has a vote thats not going to happen.

At the end of the day Australia can stop importing people whenever they like, and I assume they have more accurate projection figures than we do. When this happens nobody that's on the Aussie side of the door will care.

Doc

jank wrote: »

Well first of all I am not twisting anything, I am just calling people up as they make comments that are not thought through and getting them to backup comments made by facts.

Im sorry but you are twisting what I said

jank wrote: »

Here.

Quote:
I actually believe cultural diversity can have a very negative affect on a country.


If cultural diversity is negative than obviously to stop this one needs to stop immigrants that are culturally diverse entering into the country. Thus we stop what was negative. I cant put it more simply.

This is you putting your twist on what I actually said and it dose not represent my feeling on the mater at all. I did not say we should stop immigrants rather that immigrants should try to adopt the culture to which they are going to.

jank wrote: »

At the end of the day the state cant force you to speak a language, cant force you to live in a certain area, cant force you not to open a shop that sells food from the old country. Australia is not a communist country where there is a quota on the number of Vietnamese butchers allowed to operate in a certain area or district. Market forces will dictate where there are too few or too many of these shops.

But I am all ears. What would you propose to solve this?

I am not proposing that the state force anyone to do anything but if it is your decision to move to another country then it is my opinion that you should make every effort to integrate into that country. For example I could have chosen to live in the backpacker area of Melbourne and hang out with only Irish people and go only to Irish bars I didn’t because I have come here to experience a different life then the one I had at home.

jank wrote: »

The shop keeper has within his rights to put up any language in his displays he wishes. Who are you to tell him otherwise?

Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should or in this case shouldn’t do it. I never told the shopkeeper to put up signs English but as the majority of the people in Australia speak English it makes sense that he should.

jank wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell's_Kitchen,_Manhattan
Find the word Ghetto in that posting and I will agree with you otherwise....

Do you know what the word ghetto means? If not look it up. Just because an article on wikipedia dose not say the word ghetto doesn’t mean it wasn’t. It was a poverty stricken dangerous area mainly inhabited by immigrants from Ireland. It was a ghetto.

jank wrote: »

OK for one that is not cultural, that is globalization and capitalism you know this distinctly western phenomenon we have that we exported all around the world.......

Yes it is cultural. How can you say that the clothes that you ware the food that you eat and the products that you buy are not cultural? What do you think globalization is?

jank wrote: »

Would you like it if the Vietnamese butcher turned into a starbucks? No matter how hard I try but I cant shop in a Vietnamese butcher in Christchurch or Cork but I can sure as hell buy many a starbucks coffee.

No because this would be simply swapping American for Vietnamese plus I wanted to buy meat not coffee so that wouldn’t have been helpful at all now would it. The fact is that butcher was selling all the same things as most other butchers around the world the difference was that I could not read what was being advertised. If I was in Cork or Christchurch I would expect to walk into a butchers and be able to read what the labels say on the cuts of meet. I should be able to do the same here in Melbourne. If I was in Vietnam I would expect to have to know the language to read the signs in a butchers but not here.

jank wrote: »

If they just dumped their culture as soon as they arrived in a new country sure we would all be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand. Is that what you want? Sorry, but Ill take my Chinatowns dotted here and there over dull boring and bland globalization any day.

Why would we be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand if when we emigrated we adopted the culture of the country we went to?

jank wrote: »

I don't think anyone that landed in New York had thought to themselves"Christ this looks like London!";)

I have been to many cities and thought how sad it was that many of the streets have the same shops with the same branding and did look the same. If you don’t think so fine but I know you are wrong.

Havermeyer

jank wrote: »

Why is that a bad thing? It is not as if they have lived there for thousands of years. Personally I think its a bad thing that white people outnumber true Australians.

Fixed that for you.

jank

Doc wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are twisting what I said

This is you putting your twist on what I actually said and it dose not represent my feeling on the mater at all. I did not say we should stop immigrants rather that immigrants should try to adopt the culture to which they are going to..

Why does one have to totally drop their culture and become a defacto Australian within a day or two. Why cant people just strive to get along be tolerant rather than looking at things to b1tch about and give out about.

Ill ask again so as you seem to think I am twisting things you are saying, why is multi-culturalism a negative thing?

Doc wrote: »

I am not proposing that the state force anyone to do anything but if it is your decision to move to another country then it is my opinion that you should make every effort to integrate into that country. For example I could have chosen to live in the backpacker area of Melbourne and hang out with only Irish people and go only to Irish bars I didn’t because I have come here to experience a different life then the one I had at home. .

Good for you, but guess what because of your choice you now have a local Vietnamese butcher. Ironic eh?:p;)

Doc wrote: »

Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should or in this case should’t do it. ..

So..... whats does this mean exactly. He should put up English signs because Vietnamese offends you or might offend someone else? Rights are there for a reason. Would you like it if the government ordered all Irish bars to be stripped of their Cupla Focal?

Doc wrote: »

I never told the shopkeeper to put up signs English but as the majority of the people in Australia speak English it makes sense that he should..

Oh course it makes sense, it makes sense to have one world wide language so that we can all understand each other but thats not real life. He is well within his rights to put up whatever signs he wants.

Look, at the end of the day nobody forced you to go into that butcher, I am sure that within a block or two there is a more English friendly butcher where all your troubles are sorted. If not than move to a more "White" Australian area. Nobody is making you go into a shop, nobody is forcing you live in that area. Just dont go in there. Simple

If Melbourne is too Asian for you go outback, not many Asians there apart from the odd tourist.

Doc wrote: »

Do you know what the word ghetto means? If not look it up. Just because an article on wikipedia dose not say the word ghetto doesn’t mean it wasn’t. It was a poverty stricken dangerous area mainly inhabited by immigrants from Ireland. It was a ghetto..

OK well you define to me in your own words what a ghetto is and then tell me why the East End or a place like Hells Kitchen or even Little Italy should be called a ghetto.

Doc wrote: »

Yes it is cultural. How can you say that the clothes that you ware the food that you eat and the products that you buy are not cultural? What do you think globalization is?.

Globalization (or globalization) describes an ongoing process by which regional economies, societies and cultures have become integrated through a globe-spanning network of exchange. The term is sometimes used to refer specifically to economic globalization: the integration of national economies into the international economy through trade, foreign direct investment, capital flows, migration, and the spread of technology.[1]. However, globalization is usually recognized as being driven by a combination of economic, technological, sociocultural, political and biological factors.[2] The term can also refer to the transnational dissemination of ideas, languages, or popular culture.

Globalization is alot more than just a cultural thing as I said. Capitalism is the true driving force behind this. You have to look at these things in a holistic manner.

Doc wrote: »

No because this would be simply swapping American for Vietnamese plus I wanted to buy meat not coffee so that wouldn’t have been helpful at all now would it. The fact is that butcher was selling all the same things as most other butchers around the world the difference was that I could not read what was being advertised. If I was in Cork or Christchurch I would expect to walk into a butchers and be able to read what the labels say on the cuts of meet. I should be able to do the same here in Melbourne. If I was in Vietnam I would expect to have to know the language to read the signs in a butchers but not here. .

So basically you are never happy. You dont want a world where everything is the same but you dont want to go into a butcher and find yourself confronted with a menu that isnt english....

Doc wrote: »

Why would we be in suits speaking English and working for some nameless global brand if when we emigrated we adopted the culture of the country we went to?.

Because global forces of immigration are coming mostly from the east into western countries where globalization is being driven by said nameless companies. Isn't that what you want? No Thai, Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Indian shops, restaurants or anything of the sort to be found in any western country as Borg like simulation takes place in immigration centers?. Porridge sales would go through the roof!

Doc wrote: »

I have been to many cities and thought how sad it was that many of the streets have the same shops with the same branding and did look the same. If you don’t think so fine but I know you are wrong.

I think its sad too, but answer me this, how many of those shops and brands were western and how many were eastern?

My guess is the western brands win by a landslide, hence my backing for the plucky Vietnamese butcher standing on the front line against bland, nameless globalization.