Builders

Thoie

First off, I'm not 100% sure if this is a "consumer" issue or not - I consider myself a consumer, but see what you think.

I bought a house a few years ago. The house was built by Builder X, who had subcontracted the plumbing to Plumber Y, and the electrics to Sparks Z.

With the exception of the plumbing, everything else was of very good quality, but it seems that pretty much anything the plumbers installed (such as water tanks, pipework, etc) is of unacceptable quality. Items which I'd expect to last 10-15 years broke or stopped working in less than 3, in many cases less than 18 months. A quick straw poll of my neighbours indicates that about 50% had the same problems in the first 2 years. In all cases the plumbers and builders refused to do anything about anything, using a variety of excuses.

It's got to the point that I'm ready to take legal action (should have done it earlier, but I kept letting them off the hook). So

1) Is this something I can pursue through the Small Claims Court? "You must have bought the goods or service for private use from someone selling them in the course of business."

2) If going through the small claims court, is it the builders or the plumbers you'd list as the respondent?

Welease

Hmmm my 2c.. but don't take my input as gospel on this, check with your solicitor...

Your contract is with the builder not the plumber, so any action/contact needs to be with them. They subcontracted the work to the sparks and plumber and if they want they can seek redress from them, but you can't as you don't have a contract with them directly.

Although the value of the plumbing may be lower, the contract is for the house which would exceed the 2K or so allowed by the SCC, so you wouldnt be able to use SCC. You could however persue this through the normal courts.

Oryx

The only other thought I have is water quality. Make sure something like hard (or soft) water is not the cause. I know, an obvious one, but stating it.

Cos its a house, I suggest proper legal advice on this one.

smelltheglove

I agree, contract is with the builder, he employed the plumber not you.

There is something with new houses, as far as I remember homebond which is meant to be a 10 year guarantee, its been a while since I looked at any details like this but if you google it you may find some more info.

ejmaztec

What about a class-action suit, where all of the relevant neighbours get together, employ one solicitor, and split the costs?

Paulw

Your action would definitely be against the developer/builder, who has ultimate responsibility for the quality of all work on site.

Since there is no real class action in Ireland, it would be a case of multiple claims against the builder.

I'm not even sure you can take the case to the small claims court. You would go to the builder first, then (if possible) consilt HomeBond over your problems.

Best of luck.

penexpers

Homebond will only cover structural issues.

Small claims court has a limit of 2000 euro.

Only suggestion would be to go to a solicitor.

dudara

This is likely to be outside the remit of the Small Claims Court. Checkout the Homebond scheme first, and then perhaps speak to a solicitor about dealing with the builder.

oldyouth

IMO the 1st responsibility lies with the builder who engaged the subcontractor, but solicitors use the scatter gun approach and should name both parties.

It does sound like an issue that the HomeBond scheme would consider but not every builder is a member of HomeBond, so check that out

Thoie

Thanks all, we've looked into the Homebond, but that only covers structural issues, which the plumbing isn't part of. General house insurance will only provide cover if something goes drastically wrong - most don't seem to cover preventative measures, or just "broken" things. (If the immersion element goes, it's not covered - if the immersion element exploded in a spectacular way it would be). As someone else mentioned, there are no "Class action suits" in Ireland, but if we all used the same solicitor to file x number of individual suits it might work.

My own outlay in repairs so far comes under the €2000 limit, which is why I thought of Small Claims. What I was thinking is that by getting a court judgement for the things that have already happened, the builders/plumbers might pay more attention and be more prepared to look at the other pieces that look dodgy before they fail.

I have a suspicion that pursuing them via a solicitor would cost more than the repairs so far, but it's hard to judge if it would pay for itself in the long run. I mentioned it in passing to my solicitor while talking about something else, and she's indicated that she'd be willing to take on the case, but we didn't discuss costs. Does anyone have an extremely rough idea of hourly rates for solicitors? It's in my head as being €100-150 an hour.