Why did people jump from the world trade towers?

phantom_lord

shampoosuicide wrote: »

no safer than sending firemen up staircases to certain death?

i'd say sending firemen into a burning building has a lot less risk than trying to fly a helicopter through billowing smoke.

Maddison

Ehmmmm Im going to go for the option that they jumped & opted for the quicker death rather than waiting to either be burned alive/crushed by the building falling on top of them.

Diairist

the crowds — I among them — looked up at the burning building, saw girl after girl appear at the reddened windows, pause for a terrified moment, and then leap to the pavement below, to land as mangled, bloody pulp. This went on for what seemed a ghastly eternity. Occasionally a girl who had hesitated too long was licked by pursuing flames and, screaming with clothing and hair ablaze, plunged like a living torch to the street. Life nets held by the firemen were torn by the impact of the falling bodies.

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

yuck

Soul Stretcher

Hellish scenario

I'd imagine/guess very few jumped to escape being burned... coz would they have not been overcome by smoke/fumes if the flames were that close ??

Also jumping equals certain death.... while staying inside the building gives a glimmer of hope of rescue - firemen on the way etc...

I think the idea about there being crowds at the window and people being pushed out accidentally is viable...

Just guessing tho... God rest them all...

To those taking the piss.... I don't know how you can make fun of innocent people (like you and me) who found themselves in that situation... I personally find your "jokes" sickening...

Little Acorn

I couldn't possibly say for sure without having been in the situation,but I think if I was 100% certain I was going to burn to death,
I would jump so that my family would find my body,and be able to grieve and have a funeral.
I know that my mum would never be able to move on,if my body was never found.

Bandit12

Soul Stretcher wrote: »

Hellish scenario

I'd imagine/guess very few jumped to escape being burned... coz would they have not been overcome by smoke/fumes if the flames were that close ??

Also jumping equals certain death.... while staying inside the building gives a glimmer of hope of rescue - firemen on the way etc...

I think the idea about there being crowds at the window and people being pushed out accidentally is viable...

Just guessing tho... God rest them all...

To those taking the piss.... I don't know how you can make fun of innocent people (like you and me) who found themselves in that situation... I personally find your "jokes" sickening...

Seems to be part and parcel in after hours. Some real sicko's out there.

js1984

pure primal fear

Daemos

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

Sorry if this is a little insensitive, but its something I've always wondered.
Why did people jump out the windows of the world trade centres after they had been hit?

They surely knew they couldnt survive such a drop.
Was it because they didn't want to be burned to death? Was it the panic and they just couldn't handle it?

It must take some courage to actually jump and face your death like that. I guess we could never know what was going through the minds of those people at the time. Its just something I've always wondered about.....

They probably thought the odds of surviving a fall like that were better than the odds of a plane crashing into a goddam building

GreeBo

Diairist wrote: »

the crowds — I among them — looked up at the burning building, saw girl after girl appear at the reddened windows, pause for a terrified moment, and then leap to the pavement below, to land as mangled, bloody pulp. This went on for what seemed a ghastly eternity. Occasionally a girl who had hesitated too long was licked by pursuing flames and, screaming with clothing and hair ablaze, plunged like a living torch to the street. Life nets held by the firemen were torn by the impact of the falling bodies.

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire

yuck

****.

Local-womanizer

Landing a helicopter would have been impossible,too much smoke and the doors to the roof where locked anyway.

I'am sure the people who jumped(around 100 I think) most likely tried to escape through the stairs but gave up.I wouldent fancy suffocating slowly.

MarkR

I'd jump. You never know, there could be a truck load of marshmallows parked right where you were about to land.

Joey the lips

If you are ever locked in a room on fire you will understand. The burning sensation in your troat. You eyes in pain. Your lungs getting tighter. The worst feeling in the world. Try holding your breath for 20 seconds after exhailing and you will understand a little

They say it took an adverage of 10 seconds for a body to reach the ground. The condition of the body on the ground ment the only clean up method was a fire hose and shoval.

Its very sad. In fact its fcuked up and beyond comprehension in a way.


Hope to god I never have to face it.

rainbowtrout

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Panic and fear.

They might of thought they might be able to somehow climb down and fell as some people did. Some people would of jumped out to avoid being burned alive and some people were just so scared they just ran and jumped. Strange to think that not one of those who perished knew what the hell was happening, all they know is a plane hit their building and they died.

Strange and terrible way to die.

Some of them might not have even known that much.

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's all about control. Choosing to die was the last piece of control these people had in their lives. Take your death into your own hands or choose to die a horrific death at the hands of others.

yep, very few people get to choose how they will die (pre-meditated suicide and euthanasia aside). It must be a horrific decision to have to take, knowing there is no way out, having to choose your death.

arybvtcw0eolkf

A few photo's I took at Ground Zero - WTC.

I find the first photo, the graffiti pretty moving.

The third photo is just people reading the names of the WTC victims posted on the parimeter fence.


.

jumpguy

I can't comprehend such a situation to force a sane man to jump over 80+ stories. Surely most of them knew they'd die.
I think if I was in the same situation, I'd have been too chicken. I'm not the best with the ole heights, I'd probably have a panic attack just going out on the window sill.
Both not nice ways to die...suffocating to death in smoke, burning to death in fire, or jumping to your death from 90+ stories up. Then again, is there many nice ways...

Jeanious

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Panic and fear.

They might of thought they might be able to somehow climb down and fell as some people did. Some people would of jumped out to avoid being burned alive and some people were just so scared they just ran and jumped. Strange to think that not one of those who perished knew what the hell was happening, all they know is a plane hit their building and they died.

Strange and terrible way to die.

Absolutely, to think that jumpin from a 100story window was the better option is just incomprehensible.

Actually there is a video of a fella who tries to climb out of the North tower, gets a blast of wind or something and falls to his certain death. I can link to it if people wanna see it, ya dont see the landin or anything, but to try to put yourself in his shoes is just impossible. It must have been the most horrible feeling ever.

Amalgam wrote: »

I always wondered why any amount, even a fraction of people weren't helped off by helicopters.

I visited the tower with the Restaurant and viewing platform.. and you could get access to the roof.

Ironically, we had to make our way to the lifts around a huge clump of temporary air conditioning equipment, due to the effects of the car park bombing.

I believe the roofs were locked for some reason, definitely the North tower one was anyway, dont know why though.

Actually in general this subject has really interested me, and its something ive done a fair bit of research into, and some of it is just heartbreaking (and i can assure that im not one to care about world tragedies like this very much at all) There's even a picture of what looks like a couple holding hands and falling to their demise.

The iconic falling man picture in the documentary posted above was first thought to be a fella called Norberto Hernandez, and seemingly when the family heard this they hated the thought as he was considered to have committed a mortal sin by committing suicide...incidentally the biggest piece of Christian/Catholic bullsh1t ive ever heard, which really annoyed me.

a) Facing certain death by suffocation/incineration/crushing or
b) Flying, hoping for a 1 in a billion chance of surviving the fall by some fluke and the feeling of breathing free for one last time, not to mention escaping the fire and flames....mortal sin or no mortal sin, i know which one id pick, though how the people plucked up the courage to throw themselves out a 100-storey building ill never know.

MmmmmCheese

See what i always thought was that the primal human instinct is to cling onto life at any cost and by any means possible. To jump out the windows means certain death but if they stayed inside the buliding they might have some chance, no matter how small, of surviving.

I don't know, maybe these people knew for certain that it was the end for them. But imagine how scary it would be looking out those windows, 90+ stories from the ground, such a long way down, seconds away from death. I don't know if I'd be able to jump.

Whatever the story is anyway, i always thought the images of these people jumping to their death were the most horrific ones of this tragedy.

hairyfairy00

I remember watching a documentary about 9/11 (think it was the one that the two French brothers made) and in it they said that the first firefighter to die that day was killed by one of the 'jumpers' falling on him!

"For those who jumped, the fall lasted 10 seconds. They struck the ground at just less than 150 miles per hour — not fast enough to cause unconsciousness while falling, but fast enough to ensure instant death on impact. People jumped from all four sides of the north tower. They jumped alone, in pairs and in groups."

"Victims who jumped had a profound influence on the evacuation. Firefighters moved their command post away from the building to avoid them. A falling body killed a firefighter. Fire Commissioner Thomas Van Essen, rushing out of the north tower to meet Mayor Rudy Giuliani, was nearly killed when a body landed 15 feet away."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-02-jumper_x.htm

Sleipnir

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

See what i always thought was that the primal human instinct is to cling onto life at any cost and by any means possible. To jump out the windows means certain death but if they stayed inside the buliding they might have some chance, no matter how small, of surviving.

Not true. I read the book called "The Perfect Storm" (which was far better than the movie, BTW) and one guy who came close to drowning said something like

"People always think that you'll always go for life but it's not true. Sometimes, you can just quit"

If you're skin is blistering and cracking from the heat, and the same things are happening to your lungs and your eyes, you can just quit by jumping.

Amalgam

Trying to figure our if this thread makes me feel worse than the feature on the Estonia last night. Grim.

Once you personalise a person in an event, thanks in part to the power of the internet.. your heart sinks.

shampoosuicide

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

See what i always thought was that the primal human instinct is to cling onto life at any cost and by any means possible. To jump out the windows means certain death but if they stayed inside the buliding they might have some chance, no matter how small, of surviving.''

that's pretty naive, pal. have you ever been faced with a blazing inferno?

MmmmmCheese

shampoosuicide wrote: »

that's pretty naive, pal. have you ever been faced with a blazing inferno?

Ehh no. Have you?

As i said in my first post no one could know what it was like inside that building except the people that were there.

Jeanious

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

See what i always thought was that the primal human instinct is to cling onto life at any cost and by any means possible. To jump out the windows means certain death but if they stayed inside the buliding they might have some chance, no matter how small, of surviving.

That must tell ya how bad it was inside, if they made the "choice" to jump.

cashback

I remember watching that French documentary and the eeriest thing was the sounds of the people landing. The cameras were following the fire crews into the building and from outside you could hear this thump noise every ten seconds or so.

When the towers collapsed I remember looking at the footage wondering if someone had been on the roof if they could somehow 'surf' the collapsing building. I think there was a myth going around for a while that someone actually had. Fairly outlandish thought though.

aidan24326

Latchy wrote: »

The heat, smoke and pure fear , reasons people have mentioned in the thread but also I imagine, quite a few would have being dead with heart attack / shock before they hit the ground

Not likely. I'd expect most of them would have been conscious throughout the fall, it was only 10 seconds or so.

mrgaa1 wrote: »

come on you mean you don't know - there were actually very few who jumped

It's believed about 200 either jumped or fell.

Kersh wrote: »

Very moving documentary here on the jumpers, and 1 man's quest to name one of them.

Well worth watching,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXnA9FjvLSU&feature=related

That was on tv last week. A very well made documentary.

Amalgam wrote: »

I always wondered why any amount, even a fraction of people weren't helped off by helicopters.

The helicopters couldn't get through the thick smoke.

A guy who worked on one of the lower down floors said that he looked out the window and saw people falling, and saw them hit the ground. Apparently the bodies were in a pretty gruesome state after impact, he said they didn't even look human, so not sure how much better off the families would have been in terms of having a 'body' to bury.

We can only assume that conditions inside the building were unbearable if people were making the decision to jump. It must have been an absolutely surreal situation to be in.

dresden8

magicianz wrote: »

using the lift.....'hey look an open window!'

I think we should make parachutes mandatory in all high rise building :pac:

What's with the smiley?

Seems a good idea to me. Was my backup plan for living at high rise.

flanum

the_syco wrote: »

IMO, , if you saw them continuing to run, they probably think that they are still running on ground.

A-La Bugs Bunny?

FutureTaoiseach

I suppose because they wanted to avoid the agony of being incinerated.

netwhizkid

Amalgam wrote: »

Trying to figure our if this thread makes me feel worse than the feature on the Estonia last night. Grim.

Once you personalise a person in an event, thanks in part to the power of the internet.. your heart sinks.

What was that about? or what TV station was it on?

kiffer

I'd like to think that I would jump... If I'd had time I'd have written a note to my loved ones... Improvised some sort of desperate parachute... And made the leap... If only so that one last "I love you" could make it home. (duct tape two whiteboards together with my message on them and try to glide maybe the message would survive at least) It wouldn't work of course but you have to try something.

I'd like to think that's what I'd have done... but you can't really know how you'd handle it till you're there... I may have just paniced and died, hid and cryed in a bathroom...
And we have the whole 20:20 hind sight thing going on as well.
I remember I had the day off ... Watching the second plane hit...F u c k... And then the collapse... If I was in the other tower after the first one went down... Trapped above the fire... I'd have jumped... If I was in the first one to go and thus having not seen the other one go down? I probably would have tried to survive till fire was 'contained'.

phantom_lord

Kersh wrote: »

Very moving documentary here on the jumpers, and 1 man's quest to name one of them.

Well worth watching,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXnA9FjvLSU&feature=related

interesting, thanks.

Piste

Little Acorn wrote: »

I couldn't possibly say for sure without having been in the situation,but I think if I was 100% certain I was going to burn to death,
I would jump so that my family would find my body,and be able to grieve and have a funeral.
I know that my mum would never be able to move on,if my body was never found.

Would you actually be thinking of this in that situation though? Seems like a very practical thought instead of "no dear god I'm going to die!"



It's a really, really horrible situation to imagine. I can only hope I'm never faced with anything like it.

PeakOutput

no1 will ever know but if i was faced by a wall of fire and a jump id probably take the jump

for someone who has no idea what freefall is like would be even more likely to take the jump as they assume it overwhelms you and you dont know what is going on.

Helix

id rather a moment of euphoria over 5 minutes of burning any time

yeh maybe im weak, but im damned if im going out in pain

Little Acorn

Piste wrote: »

Would you actually be thinking of this in that situation though? Seems like a very practical thought instead of "no dear god I'm going to die!"



It's a really, really horrible situation to imagine. I can only hope I'm never faced with anything like it.

I don't know,that's why I said that I couldn't possibly say for sure without being in the situation. It's the first thing I thought of watching the news all them years ago. When I heard that people were jumping from the building I cried,but even though I was only 14, I thought that's what I would do too,and my main reason for thinking this was so that my family would have my body to bury.(of course I couldn't even begin to imagine how terrifying the smoke,flames and lack of oxygen would be.)

I know it seems like a very odd practical thing to think of,just the way my mind works.
It may have something to with the fact that my mum's uncle died at sea,and his body was never found. He died before I was born,but I remember my mum often talking about him,and how awful it was. I think that would have come into my head.(Even though realistically,even some of the people who jumped sadly may still have never been found under debris/or identified)

That being said,there's every chance I could have completely frozen in terror,and gone down with the building,I have no way of knowing,and hopefully will never have to face that decision.

I find just thinking of the situation those poor people were put in,absolutely terrifying.

Helix

the mind is hardwired to do certain things i think

if faced with inevitable burning, or your endorphin filled flight to the ground (where you sufficate before you splat), your brain is gonna pick flying any day

blinding

Joey the lips wrote: »

If you are ever locked in a room on fire you will understand. The burning sensation in your troat. You eyes in pain. Your lungs getting tighter. The worst feeling in the world. Try holding your breath for 20 seconds after exhailing and you will understand a little

They say it took an adverage of 10 seconds for a body to reach the ground. The condition of the body on the ground ment the only clean up method was a fire hose and shoval.

Its very sad. In fact its fcuked up and beyond comprehension in a way.


Hope to god I never have to face it.

I lived on the third floor of a building once and in the middle of the night we heard calls of FIRE FIRE and it turns out there is a fire in next doors maisonette.
We called the fire brigade as I am sure did many other neighbours. Myself and the girlfriend went into the hallway to see if we could do anything.
The front door was not locked or even latched (probably indicative of the residents but thats not important here). We nudged the door open a little and it was obvious that no one could enter without breathing apparatus. It was pitch black with acrid smoke. We realised that all we could do is wait and show the firemen the correct door. We did this and they told us to get back into our flat which we did. On this occasion everyone was okay.
But if anyone thinks they can be super heroes in a fire situation forget it. Hopefully the fire brigade can make it on time.

With regard to the twin towers I believe the extreme heat and smoke would cause a person to seek whatever relief they can get.

shampoosuicide

Liam Gallagher saw it all coming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnyMxcTk_UA

Ciaran500

Helix wrote: »

(where you sufficate before you splat)

You wouldn't suffocate

pipeliner

right they say suicide is a mortal sin and you wont get into heaven if u do it. In this situation, where you were going to die anyway would it count as suicide if you jumped?

If it did i would be straight to the appeals commission and complain my way into heaven

Bear in mind that this is hypothetical and on this occasion there is such a thing as god/heaven/hell

shampoosuicide

watching that Falling Man documentary, the Mexican family really pissed me off. obviously they went through grief and all that, but the sheer retardedness of this 'oh, jumping is suicide and his soul is in limbo' and 'if he loved his daughters, he would have tried to find a way out' ...how thick are some people?

it's like torture - if someone's tortured for long enough, they're going to crack no matter what. nobody's a hero in the face of extreme physical pain. anyone who's labouring under the impression that jumping was somehow cowardly or selfish - well, let's just hope they never have to face the same thing and see how exactly they'd react

DamoDLK

I can't imagine what was going through their minds on the way down, poor souls.

What would be facing someone when the only rational thing to do is to jump to their death..

kiffer

staying would have been suicide... Jumping was their only chance... Though it wasn't very good at all...

Happy Monday

I know it's off topic but check out this link to a film called the bridge which tries to understand why people jump off the golden gate bridge - has actual footage of people jumping over a year - a little off topic but related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwl-Pa_QT0M

murf313

the temperature in the building would have been unbearable. the planes were full of fuel when they hit jet fuel burns at around 1000 degrees c.
there is no way anybody that was still alive would have been able to stay in the building if they were any where near that fire
i have been in fires at around 180 degrees with all the proper equipment on and i can tell you any little bit of flesh exposed will burn and blister straight away.
i would imagine the only logical choice for these people was to jump, it had to be better than the heat...

walshb

Their jumping was not suicide at all, it was a desperate act to save themselves, as slim as the chances were, they were slimmer had those people stayed in the building I would imagine.

Suicide is the deliberate taking of ones life. I am betting that those jumpers weren't thinking about suicide before they jumped, they were thinking about escaping the fire and the building

Ricky91t

I'd hate to think what it was like inside the building and jumping was their only chance or surviving on the off chance they landed on something soft,I'm sure being in that building after the plane hit it would of been horrible,You'd probably here the screams of people being burnt to death and screams of the people discovering they're trapped in the building.

I'm sure the people doing it didn't really think about it and just took the only chance they had.

6th

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

Why did people jump out the windows of the world trade centres after they had been hit?

To get to the other side?

Min

I was in New York two weeks after the attacks, the smell of burning concrete and steel was very strong even then, you have to take into account dust and stuff from the explosions too.
The fumes from the explosion and burning buildings and planes would have been overwhelming.
People nearer the fumes and the flames were probably the ones that had no option but to jump to avoid a Joan of Arc type death, I'm sure the ones further away had hope that they could be rescued from the roof.

It is just desperately sad and I hope to God none of us ever have to experience anything like that. I don't know how anyone thinks this is a topic that can be used for making light of the situation, we should be thankful it wasn't any of us in that impossible situation.

PeakOutput

Joey the lips wrote: »

They say it took an adverage of 10 seconds for a body to reach the ground. The condition of the body on the ground ment the only clean up method was a fire hose and shoval.

who says? bodies dont explode after falling in fact many times they will look quite normal on the outside as if nothing is wrong but they will have massive internal injuries

also who went to cleanup the bodies as the buildings were collapsing?

it is very sad but no need for the hyperbole the event was outrageous enough as it is