Can DART ticket office refuse €50 note?

loobylou

My daughter was refused a DART ticket today because she could only tender a €50 note at the ticket office. He did not say it was because he had no change, but that it was "policy". He pointed to a note displayed, asking customers to have the correct amount.
This is now the second act of pettiness by DART staff in less then a week directed at her. Where do you think she stands in this instance and would appreciate advice on what to do next.

ardmacha

If she bought €50 of tickets, she could not be refused. But no trader is obliged to give change.

That said it is a good indicator of thr service provided by nationalised entities in Ireland.

manutd

But no trader is obliged to give change.

It is a very bad service not allowing a €50 note to be used, turning business away. Money is money and every trader should give change out.

Random

Was she allowed on anyway?

loobylou

Mr.S wrote: »

Would you pay with a €50 note for a bus fair?

No, it is clearly stated on the bus that no change will be given.
Even then there is a facility (however poor) for getting your change.

loobylou

Random wrote: »

Was she allowed on anyway?

A friend had to pay for her ticket. Probably the best outcome as my initial reaction was for her to get on the train without a ticket. My view was that she had not refused to pay the fare but rather the officials had refused to sell her a ticket. Doubt my legal ground there though, in hindsight.

Fey!

This has also happened with Iarnrod Eireann train tickets in Ceannt Station in Galway.

One of my colleagues offered a €50 note for a €13 ticket recently, and was refused. The automatic ticket machines in the station didn't work.

The Big Red Button

As far as I know - short answer - yes, they can. Contract law, offer and acceptance and whatnot.

Soundman

I could be wrong but I do remember hearing before that Dublin Bus and Iarnrod Eireann can't refuse travel based on the denomination produced to pay for the fare. If you have enough, or more than enough, money you are supposed to be allowed travel. I know plenty of times I have been travelling on the last train after the local station has closed and gone to pay in Connolly with a €50 note only for them to tell me to go on because they didn't have change.

I think what I heard though was mainly in relation to Dublin Bus since they decided to change policy and forbid their drivers from handling cash.

Slippin Jimmy

Would you go in and pay a €5 train fair with a €500 note? The reality of it is that this policy is set out by the operators of the DART. There has to be a logical reason behind this, one which I cannot see myself. The best thing to do would be to contact them regarding this matter and ask why this is in place. Here is the link:

http://www.irishrail.ie/contact_us/contact_dart_feedback.asp

meathstevie

The only means of payment a trader, no matter which one, has to accept is legal tender : Euro notes and coins in reasonable proportion to the amount owed. For a DART ticket worth let's say €15 Euro I'd deem a €50 note reasonable since most ATM's dispense money in €50 notes.

dearg lady

yeah, it's a bit annoying but I think they are entitled to refuse, it quite possibly was because of lack of change, even though he didn't actually say that.

I've googled a few things, can't seem to find any answers! It's quite interesting, I have seen signs in shops before saying x notes not accepted, usually anything bigger than a 100. I often wondered if this was legal. If they on't have change, fair enough, but to just refuse, hmmm, I wonder.

I'd contact Irish Rail and see what their official policy is on this, and in future make sure she has change, cos they could either have no change or try to give change of €50 in €1 coins or something!!

MunsterCycling

The €200 and €500 notes are not legal tender and therefore don't have to be accepted but the rest is fair game and as has been pointed out legal tender must be accepted for settlement of a debt but not sure what a ticket is regarded as.

MC

Mr. Presentable

Duffff-Man wrote: »

Would you go in and pay a €5 train fair with a €500 note? The reality of it is that this policy is set out by the operators of the DART. There has to be a logical reason behind this, one which I cannot see myself. The best thing to do would be to contact them regarding this matter and ask why this is in place. Here is the link:

http://www.irishrail.ie/contact_us/contact_dart_feedback.asp

Because if three people want to pay for €2 tickets with €50 notes, there's no change left for anyone. I'm going to presume in the case of the OP, that it was not his daughter's first time to use the Dart.............

Shelflife

they dont have to accept any particular note, but if they were anyway interested in meeting their customer needs they would ensure that they had enough change to meet their requirements.

granted they would on occasion be unable to take large notes because they had no change , but their attitude shows the difference between private and semi state operations.

axer

Unless there is some specific bye law that covers this then the Dart can refuse to sell a ticket to anyone as long as they do not discriminate (contract law).

Legal tender must only be accepted in the repayment of a debt. No debt existed here thus the Dart are fully legally allowed to have a policy that does not accept 50 euro notes.

the_syco

This is to stop people coming in the morning with €50 notes topay for a €2 ticket, and clearing them out of change, and stopping them from being able to give other people change for the rest of the day.

In saying that, if you were to get a weekly pass costing €30 the €50 note is accepted.

MovieExtras.ie: Derek

there could also be the issue of counterfeit notes (though can be easily resolved these days with the counterfeit checking machines)

maglite

MunsterCycling wrote: »

The €200 and €500 notes are not legal tender

Source?

Greenmachine

maglite wrote: »

Source?

+1

Never heard that one before.

sdanseo

Fey! wrote: »

This has also happened with Iarnrod Eireann train tickets in Ceannt Station in Galway.

One of my colleagues offered a €50 note for a €13 ticket recently, and was refused. The automatic ticket machines in the station didn't work.

Probably just as well, would have got €37 worth of coins back! :P

JohnC.

I think the €200/500 legal tender issue is a misunderstanding. They are legal tender. They just aren't issued by our central bank, last I heard. Ones which come in from other countries are still legal tender.

jeckle

MunsterCycling wrote: »

The €200 and €500 notes are not legal tender and therefore don't have to be accepted ......

MC

€200 & €500 notes are legal tender!

Banks regularly give them out to customers making large cash withdrawals, & accept them in lodgements.

The CIE Group have acknowledged this fact here stating that Euro currency is denominated in seven notes (5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 euro) and eight coins (1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50 cent and 1, 2 euro).

The problem that the OP’s daughter has come across is that:

‘As legal tender can be refused until a person is in debt, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate, and even shopkeepers can reject large banknotes. However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change – the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift.’
(From http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Legal_tender)

If the OP’s daughter had attempted to pay with 150 individual cent coins (for example) ticket office staff could also have refused to accept them.

'According to the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998 of the Republic of Ireland which replaced the legal tender provisions that had been re-enacted in Irish legislation from previous British enactments, No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction.'

(From http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/Legal_tender)

Having said that I think that the DART station should at least display a sign saying that they do not or may not accept €50 notes for transactions lower than a certain amount.

Corruptedmorals

Even for transactions of 20 something euro, two people giving 50's in quick succession will wipe out change. They are entitled to refuse it, but they should have procured change from another till or safe.

Whatever about the 200, the 500 should be banned altogether from shops, nobody I've ever encountered using them are making transactions of more than €40, ridiculous.

soc

loobylou wrote: »

My daughter was refused a DART ticket today because she could only tender a €50 note at the ticket office. He did not say it was because he had no change, but that it was "policy". He pointed to a note displayed, asking customers to have the correct amount.
This is now the second act of pettiness by DART staff in less then a week directed at her. Where do you think she stands in this instance and would appreciate advice on what to do next.

That is just plain ridiculous! :eek: Out of curiousity was there a ticket machine for her to use instead?

I regularly go to the ATM on the way to train, withdraw €20 from machine and use this to get my €2 ticket from the ticket machine - this way it then gives me change in €2 coins to use for future train journeys.

Being told you HAVE to have the exact amount for the ticket office is just plain stupid. I reckon that ticket staff member, probably stuck up that sign of his own accord, to minimise the number of customers 'bothering' him while he was at work. In fact, I once went to the ticket office at Sandymount to ask for information and purchase a ticket... man behind glass window was reading a book. When I finally got his attention, it was as if I was bothering him! He simply said, 'use the ticket machine' - I told him I needed information, he clearly was not impressed. This kind of attitude certainly doesn't encourage people to actively use public transport does it? :mad:

loobylou, I'd strongly encourage you to raise a complaint with Irish Rail - if your child hadn't had her friend with her, what was she supposed to do then?

MunsterCycling

The €200 and €500 notes were designed for interbank transactions and never intended for use by the public.

eth0_

loobylou wrote: »

This is now the second act of pettiness by DART staff in less then a week directed at her. Where do you think she stands in this instance and would appreciate advice on what to do next.

They're clearly bullying your daughter and you should sue Iarnrod Eireann :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

But seriously - cop on! Many shops refuse large denomination notes for two reasons - there are a lot of €50 and €100 note forgeries in circulation, and as has already been mentioned on this thread, if more than one person pays for their DART ticket with a €50 note, their supply of change is decimated. This is especially true for smaller stations.


As a matter of interest, what was the other 'act of pettiness by DART staff'?

Cool Mo D

MunsterCycling wrote: »

The €200 and €500 notes were designed for interbank transactions and never intended for use by the public.

Really? I heard they were put in by request of countries like Germany where credit cards are not used much, and they tend to use cash for large household purchases for things like washing machines, furniture, and home improvements. Surely interbank transactions are done electronically?

And the DART can refuse any transaction at all as long as they don't break discrimination laws. They do not have to sell you a ticket. Although, they are a public service and should be trying to accommodate customers.

MunsterCycling

Its called a proper float.

eth0_ wrote: »

They're clearly bullying your daughter and you should sue Iarnrod Eireann :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

But seriously - cop on! Many shops refuse large denomination notes for two reasons - there are a lot of €50 and €100 note forgeries in circulation, and as has already been mentioned on this thread, if more than one person pays for their DART ticket with a €50 note, their supply of change is decimated. This is especially true for smaller stations.


As a matter of interest, what was the other 'act of pettiness by DART staff'?

Shelflife

Its called running a business properly.

Ghost Train

fair enough if the seller has no twenties in the till, if he does have a few twenties then how is it any different to taking a tenner