West Ham v Liverpool 17:30 [Match Thread]

CoachBoone

noodler wrote: »

Not as ridiculous as saying he played poorly.

Seriously, credit where its due.

It is so refreshing for me to be able to praise him.

He did play poorly. Watch it again now late on Football first or whatever. He did nothing apart from the assist and actually aided West Ham by giving the ball away so easily, allowing them to break.

He really wasnt good at all, where are Liverpool fans getting this from?

Credit is due for the cross for the goal. He did very well in beating his man and putting in a perfect cross for Torres, other than that and overall he was bad.

Finical

CoachBoone wrote: »

He did play poorly. Watch it again now late on Football first or whatever. He did nothing apart from the assist and actually aided West Ham by giving the ball away so easily, allowing them to break.

He really wasnt good at all, where are Liverpool fans getting this from?

Credit is due for the cross for the goal. He did very well in beating his man and putting in a perfect cross for Torres, other than that and overall he was bad.

Yeah but we usually see him walking around the place and going for wild shots everytime, least today it looked like he wanted to do well. So thats a positive!

I agree though he did give the ball too much away in counter attacks.

~Rebel~

CoachBoone wrote: »

He did play poorly. Watch it again now late on Football first or whatever. He did nothing apart from the assist and actually aided West Ham by giving the ball away so easily, allowing them to break.

He really wasnt good at all, where are Liverpool fans getting this from?

Credit is due for the cross for the goal. He did very well in beating his man and putting in a perfect cross for Torres, other than that and overall he was bad.

i'm sorry i must have been tricking myself into seeing some of the decent link up play he produced.

noodler

CoachBoone wrote: »

He did play poorly. Watch it again now late on Football first or whatever. He did nothing apart from the assist and actually aided West Ham by giving the ball away so easily, allowing them to break.

He really wasnt good at all, where are Liverpool fans getting this from?

Credit is due for the cross for the goal. He did very well in beating his man and putting in a perfect cross for Torres, other than that and overall he was bad.

As Rebel hinted at above me, did you not see him hold the ball up well and bring other people into play?

I am getting the feeling it was me who watched the game properly first time rather than yourself.

Mr Alan

I think i've been one of Babels biggest critics on here but i thought he did very well when he came on today.

Happy to have him as back up for that right side now instead of the left.

Yossi & Albert fight it out on the left, Kuyt & Babel on the right, decent options tbh.

What a ****ing buy Glen Johnson has been.

Another very good game from Lucas.

CoachBoone

~Rebel~ wrote: »

i'm sorry i must have been tricking myself into seeing some of the decent link up play he produced.

Yeah he did rarely, he was losing the ball far too often for it to be considered a strong game in that regard though.

Any other winger can do that and should be doing that. Doing what he is supposed to does not constitute playing well.

noodler wrote: »

As Rebel hinted at above me, did you not see him hold the ball up well and bring other people into play?

I am getting the feeling it was me who watched the game properly first time rather than yourself.

No need to get so defensive.

He played poorly. Its ok, he isnt exactly a good player as it is, very limited, you should be expecting it.

MementoMori

rossie1977 wrote: »

carraghers legs can't be gone at 31, he is the same age as rio and frank lampard played in the same youth cup final as those guys, but he is playing crap though, he was playing poorly at the back end of last season as well and then the arbeloa thing at west brom made him look stupid

Carra is 32 in December.
Rio is 31 in November.
Lampard turned 31 in June.

Once you go over the age of 30 the chances are that the level of your performances will start to dip. It's just a question of how steep and quick the decline is.

I definately don't think Carra was helped any by playing on the wrong side of the CB partnership. Definately didn't help at all. I think it might have been to keep him away from Hines in a sense, but didn't work out at all.

noodler

CoachBoone wrote: »

Yeah he did rarely, he was losing the ball far too often for it to be considered a strong game in that regard though.

Any other winger can do that and should be doing that. Doing what he is supposed to does not constitute playing well.



No need to get so defensive.

He played poorly. Its ok, he isnt exactly a good player as it is, very limited, you should be expecting it.

Are you upset Liverpool won?

CoachBoone

noodler wrote: »

Are you upset Liverpool won?

Not at all. Thoroughly deserved and the second half performance was quite good.

It just feels like Liverpool fans are trying to justify Babels place in the team and relieve him from the rightful criticism he has been getting.

Mr Alan

Babel did better than he usually does when he comes on, he looked a threat, as evidenced by the skinning he gave the LB a couple of times & the assist he got. These are things he usually doesn't do. Thats all people are commenting on. His performance today was an improvement on what he usually does. He looked hungry & dangerous. Usually he looks ****e & disinterested.

Progress=Good.

~Rebel~

Exactly as Al said. Christ it's not like its a regular thing to stand up for Babel, all of us here have been commenting on how useless he has been for pool for quite a while now, today and the last day were some indications that he might actually have something to offer for a change.

CoachBoone

Mr Alan wrote: »

Babel did better than he usually does when he comes on, he looked a threat, as evidenced by the skinning he gave the LB a couple of times & the assist he got. These are things he usually doesn't do. Thats all people are commenting on. His performance today was an improvement on what he usually does. He looked hungry & dangerous. Usually he looks ****e & disinterested.

Progress=Good.

I agree completely about the progress thing.

But people saying he was "decent" and "good" are overrating the performance altogether.

Maybe because he looked lively in the first 5 after coming on people are thinking that mirrors his overall performance. But it doesnt.

He was like Ronaldo when he first signed for United tonight, losing the ball, being generally ineffective but doing some things right.

rossie1977

MementoMori wrote: »

Carra is 32 in December.
Rio is 31 in November.
Lampard turned 31 in June.

actually carragher doesn't turn 32 until the end of january, regardless there is only a few months between those 3 guys in terms of age, though rio and lampard are still considered to be in their primes and carragher is now too old, legs gone, over the hill etc etc

carragher has never been the quickest, we saw henry outpace him 10 years ago ffs, today the mistake in the first minute was total lack of concentration (a phil babb or Djimi Traore moment if you will), something like that should never happen to a player who has played that many games at the highest level as carragher, its inexcusable, this is the sign of (a) a player lacking in confidence or (b) a player playing crap

Kirby

CoachBoone wrote: »

He was like Ronaldo nearly every single time he played for United, losing the ball, being generally ineffective but doing some things right.

Fixed your post for you

noodler

CoachBoone wrote: »

Not at all. Thoroughly deserved and the second half performance was quite good.

It just feels like Liverpool fans are trying to justify Babels place in the team and relieve him from the rightful criticism he has been getting.

CoachBoone wrote: »

I agree completely about the progress thing.

But people saying he was "decent" and "good" are overrating the performance altogether.

Maybe because he looked lively in the first 5 after coming on people are thinking that mirrors his overall performance. But it doesnt.

He was like Ronaldo when he first signed for United tonight, losing the ball, being generally ineffective but doing some things right.

We can't even say he played decent? Come off it ffs.

BTW, Babel has been getting absolutely slated around here, especially by me, for around a year. Any suggestion that people are trying to justify anything is an absolute fallacy.

CoachBoone

noodler wrote: »

We can't even say he played decent? Come off it ffs.

BTW, Babel has been getting absolutely slated around here, especially by me, for around a year. Any suggestion that people are trying to justify anything is an absolute fallacy.

He might have played decent compared to HIS previous performances. Which is fine. But in no way did he play well in the overall sense. Not even decent, in fact he was pretty poor.

I havent been reading the thread/anything liverpool related, I dont know the abuse Babel is getting but its not unusual for fans to rally around a player getting a lot of criticism regardless of his performances. Much like Anderson with United, Lucas with Liverpool.

Anyway, Im off to the the pub. Wasting valuable barstooling time here barstooling.

Mr Alan

i thought he was very good when he came on tbh.

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

i thought he was very good when he came on tbh.

Alan

were you not concerned about him giving the ball away so many times ?

his assist for torres goal was great but I dont think he brought much to the table(bar the great assist)

Mr Alan

twice i think he gave it away?

not particularly concerned by that tbh.

Headshot

Mr Alan wrote: »

twice i think he gave it away?

not particularly concerned by that tbh.

he gave it away alot more than twice alan

podge018

you seem REALLY concerned by it though headshot, bordering on obsessed actually.

Headshot

podge018 wrote: »

you seem REALLY concerned by it though headshot, bordering on obsessed actually.

o ya im really concerned

excuse me podge018 the grown ups are trying to have a discussion here

Handsome Bob

Thought Babel did very well when he came on, not only did he show some great technical skill but he was also working his bollocks off getting back to defend. Very impressive.

Hard day's work today but the 3 points is all that matters. Even though Torres scored twice today I thought he had an average game (especially in the second half), how scary is that?

mrgaa1

watching the highlights on RTE and certainly we have MAJOR defensive issues - Carragher is not at the races this season and we do need a commanding CB. Agger may be the person but someone needs to step up to the plate.
However I thought Nugents goal for Burnley today was very good but Torres's first goal was exceptional - speed and directness. He looks like he is back near his best form which is good for us.

Bandit12

Fantastic performance from the lads. Lesser teams would have wilted today against that very aggesive West Ham display. Very promising signs for the rest of the season. Just how good is Torres and another outstanding game from Lucas and the Masher.

noodler

I think the Carra peno was harsh, not great play by Carra but not alot in it either and arguable that Hines had lost control of the ball by the time the contact took place.

I do believe Babel did well when he came on, he got a nice assist ffs. But lets not be kidding ourselves here. He came on and ran by WH's LB for fun but delivered a bad cross and did give the ball away a few times stupidly while on the pitch. From all the chances he has been given he doesn't look like the standard LFC needs to be honest. Would he get in a Chelsea, United or Arsenal side? Negative. That is the bar people need to look at and take off the mediocre googles..... we want to challenge for the title right?

Bandit12

Deleted User wrote: »

I do believe Babel did well when he came on, he got a nice assist ffs. But lets not be kidding ourselves here. He came on and ran by WH's LB for fun but delivered a bad cross and did give the ball away a few times stupidly while on the pitch. From all the chances he has been given he doesn't look like the standard LFC needs to be honest. Would he get in a Chelsea, United or Arsenal side? Negative. That is the bar people need to look at and take off the mediocre googles..... we want to challenge for the title right?

Of course we want to challange but when the owners give Rafa a net spend of zero over the last couple of seasons we'll have to make do with the likes of Babel. Who else would you have brought on?

Outkast_IRE

I think that we will have problems this season with carra giving away penaltys and free kicks, someone can correct me but i feel as if hes gotten a tiny bit slower this last year and more likely to resort to a rough tackle of whatever to do his job.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes was a cheap penalty to give away by Carra and Skrtel a bit weak on the free that led to West Hams second goal.
But we were much better going forward and great to see Torres bagging a brace tonight.
Good cross for Babel for winner and Mascherano spread the ball about well. Looks as if we are over our slump now and Gerrard was a lot more involved today.

Kess73

rossie1977 wrote: »

carraghers legs can't be gone at 31, he is the same age as rio and frank lampard played in the same youth cup final as those guys, but he is playing crap though, he was playing poorly at the back end of last season as well and then the arbeloa thing at west brom made him look stupid

Just because he is the same age as other players does not mean his physical make up will be the exact same.


He turns slower than he did a few seasons ago, and his acceleration has gotten worse.

Plenty of sportspeople peak young and plenty late when much older.

Before Carra's reading of the game was covering up his errors, and his ability to make last ditch tackles also covered up a lot, but since the start of last season his reactions seemed to have dulled badly, and as a result he has been making far more high profile errors, especially in the second half of last season, and that trend has continued this season even before today's game where he made three bad errors that could have lead to goals, with one leading to a goal.

His past record is not being questioned by me, nor is his commitment to the club, but there comes a day when a fighter hangs up his gloves, and I think Carra is very close to that day when he cannot play week in week out and give top class performances.

As I said near at the start of the game, I think when Agger returns is the time that Carra gets looked at as the third choice centre back.

NukaCola

Deleted User wrote: »

I do believe Babel did well when he came on, he got a nice assist ffs. But lets not be kidding ourselves here. He came on and ran by WH's LB for fun but delivered a bad cross and did give the ball away a few times stupidly while on the pitch. From all the chances he has been given he doesn't look like the standard LFC needs to be honest. Would he get in a Chelsea, United or Arsenal side? Negative. That is the bar people need to look at and take off the mediocre googles..... we want to challenge for the title right?

I see what your saying, a lot of Liverpool fans have the same opinion but maybe you should be a bit more realistic.

Firstly he's a squad player, not a starter so he's not getting into the liverpool team either. What other squad player wouldnt get into the top four teams? Ship them all out so!??

Secondly liverpool have no money for players so we cant replace him, mediocre or not he is a liverpool player.

Thirdly he is still young, plenty of time for improvement.

He came off the bench at 2-2 and setup the winning goal. Cant ask more of a sub really. Sure we'd all love world class players in every position and top quality subs but we dont have the funds.Lets not be putting down the lads who play and IMO try to do their best, maybe your criticism should be saved for the owners for not backing the manager more with funds.

NukaCola

noodler wrote: »

I think the Carra peno was harsh, not great play by Carra but not alot in it either and arguable that Hines had lost control of the ball by the time the contact took place.

Not in the slightest bit harsh, it was defo a penalty... Awful play from Carra, he has been poor so far this season, not confident with him at all.

Sherifu

noodler wrote: »

I think the Carra peno was harsh, not great play by Carra but not alot in it either and arguable that Hines had lost control of the ball by the time the contact took place.

Having watched it again on MOTD in slow motion it was nailed on like I thought today. Definite peno. Push in the back. Not much to argue about.

RasTa

Good game for the errr netural The only thing I'd like to add is that ref had another shocker, far too card happy.

BumbleBee123

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

I see what your saying, a lot of Liverpool fans have the same opinion but maybe you should be a bit more realistic.

Firstly he's a squad player, not a starter so he's not getting into the liverpool team either. What other squad player wouldnt get into the top four teams? Ship them all out so!??

Secondly liverpool have no money for players so we cant replace him, mediocre or not he is a liverpool player.

Thirdly he is still young, plenty of time for improvement.

He came off the bench at 2-2 and setup the winning goal. Cant ask more of a sub really. Sure we'd all love world class players in every position and top quality subs but we dont have the funds.Lets not be putting down the lads who play and IMO try to do their best, maybe your criticism should be saved for the owners for not backing the manager more with funds.

I respect your point in view that we were not given the funding that was expected. However we did buy a player for €20 million and he was always missing 3-4 months of the season when we could of got a nice price for Sneijder, Robben or Van der Vaart. Pisses me off as much as you the situation but I just hate how we keep giving people chances when they have been given enough time already.

great result tonight.

Funny reading through the the thread and seeing the usual annoying headwrecking posters giving up when we scored the winner

liverpool are boring

rafa out

angel01

It was a good game and well done to West Ham for giving Liverpool a real go and not giving up. Torres looks like he is getting back to his best.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes Carra had a bit of a tough time yesterday. Was a needless penalty to give away. Given that he took another defender to task at the end of the season, he needs to step it up a bit.
Skrtel also a bit sloppy for the free that led to the corner that to the goal. Against better teams those two mistakes could have proved costly.
Re goal of corner was there a case for putting defender on the post. Again another goal conceded off a set piece. Its worrying.

anplaya

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Thirdly he is still young, plenty of time for improvement.

lol,using that excuse for last two years ,ya gonna use it for next 2?
hes been given time ,he put in one good cross which torres scored from,that a lesser forward wouldnt as it was a difficult header,however he was useless before that,losing the ball and setting up the oppositions counter attacks.

NukaCola

anplaya wrote: »

lol,using that excuse for last two years ,ya gonna use it for next 2?
hes been given time ,he put in one good cross which torres scored from,that a lesser forward wouldnt as it was a difficult header,however he was useless before that,losing the ball and setting up the oppositions counter attacks.

Just typical from some liverpool fans, slate a player when they do poor and slate them when they play well, its sickening to hear sometimes.
I've posted here before that i dont think Babel is a starter but he is a decent squad player. I'm not excusing him, i'm stating a fact.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N165837090920-0012.htm

Sherifu

Quote skills. Get them.

Confusion++

anplaya

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

anplaya wrote: »

Just typical from some liverpool fans, slate a player when they do poor and slate them when they play well, its sickening to hear sometimes.
I've posted here before that i dont think Babel is a starter but he is a decent squad player. I'm not excusing him, i'm stating a fact.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N165837090920-0012.htm

yawn,same old thing,some liverpool fans blah blah blah.same boring argument,just typical etc etc.
take off your babel blinkers and accept like ive done hes not good enough for the team full stop,then itll stop those kind of conversations.

sure you aren't a Liverpool fan are you?

PS. learn to use quotes properly

NukaCola

rarnes1 wrote: »

sure you aren't a Liverpool fan are you?

PS. learn to use quotes properly

Quotes went crazy there.
I am a Liverpool fan, i assumed anplaya was too....

NukaCola

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

I've posted here before that i dont think Babel is a starter but he is a decent squad player. I'm not excusing him, i'm stating a fact.

anplaya wrote: »

take off your babel blinkers and accept like ive done hes not good enough for the team full stop

I'll post it again and clarify

I dont think Babel is good enough to start for Liverpool
He is a squad player
We cant replace him because we have no funds
He played well yesterday, cut him a bit of slack.....

anplaya

i dont think hes good enough,squad player or not.as ive said before,too many average players at liverpool over the years .
just cause he put in one decent cross doesnt mean he had a good game,he lost the ball a good few times yesterday,setting west ham up on the counter attack.

BumbleBee123

BumbleBee123 wrote: »

Quotes went crazy there.
I am a Liverpool fan, i assumed anplaya was too....