Ex Dell workers to get EU Cash.

Firefox10

I think this is good news with the Lisbon 2 referendum just around the corner.:pac:


The European Commission has approved a grant of €14.8m to help former workers at Dell in Limerick to find new jobs.
EC President José Manuel Barroso made the announcement while visiting Limerick this morning.
The grant application for assistance from the European Globalisation Adjustment Fund (EGF) was made by the Government and is one of the first to benefit from new EU crisis measures.



It will now go to the European Parliament and the Council of the EU for agreement.

Mr Barroso said: 'The economic crisis is affecting all European countries, but Limerick and the surrounding area have been hit hard by job losses at the local Dell plant and its suppliers.

'The EU is built on solidarity. Our natural response is to come to the aid of those who are experiencing difficulties and to take decisive action to tackle the jobs impact of the crisis.'
Dell announced 1,900 job cuts in Limerick earlier this year. Jobs were also lost at Cherrywood in south Dublin.
The anti-Lisbon Treaty campaigner, former MEP Patricia McKenna, has said the announcement was conveniently opportune.
In a statement, the Chairperson of the People's Movement accused the EU Commission of unlawful interference in the Irish referendum debate.

Sleipnir

It's one hell of a carrot to dangle before the referendum.
It's certainly not a common response to job losses is it?

puntosporting

As a former Dell worker this is excellent news and much welcomed im out of work since june after 12 years there!
And i dont see the lefties coming up with a whole lot to help the unemployed

Crea

Do the employee of Banta, Sercom, truck drivers, Dell suppliers who all lost their jobs because of the Dell pull out get money too?
This is populist BS!

puntosporting

Fair point!
Im sure the devil is in the detail but at the same time any investment into the local economy has to be welcomed!
If it takes people of the live register or at least puts them in a position to make a living for themselves than im sure you can not knock it?
Would you prefer that know one was given assistance here?
But i do agree this should be available to anyone who has recently been made redundant in the midwest area who is serious about getting back into the workforce!

cancan

How does giving out of work people money, help them find a job?

puntosporting

cancan wrote: »

How does giving out of work people money, help them find a job?

I dont think anyone is getting money!
Im sure this money will cover the cost of further education for people who want to become qualified(retrained) in various different areas of industry etc???
Im not actualy sure how the money will used just a guestimation:)

Musha

puntosporting wrote: »

I dont think anyone is getting money!
Im sure this money will cover the cost of further education for people who want to become qualified(retrained) in various different areas of industry etc???
Im not actualy sure how the money will used just a guestimation:)

Retrain for what? Has anyone looked at the Jobs ad recently there is no employment/industry hiring. Thousands of people are applying for retail assistant jobs... we need money put into manufacturing and start making and stop importing

old boy

the cynic in me is into overdrive, it is announced in the eve of the referendum, it is not cash, the announcement appears to say it is, it does not say when it comes into effect, why not put that dosh into providing jobs, or opening a factory or similar, it is to provide training, FAS know how to absorbe dosh

betonit

does some go to who ever and say Im doing this course here's the reciept. Or will what you ca do br pre-defined?

Firefox10

Well as Puntosporting put it, the devil will be in the detail. Im assuming it will take the form of some sort of back to education grant. Who Knows. Im sure we will get more info soon.

Flaccus

Crea wrote: »

Do the employee of Banta, Sercom, truck drivers, Dell suppliers who all lost their jobs because of the Dell pull out get money too?
This is populist BS!

Yes. The money is for dell workers and people who worked in companies which support(ed) dell. (e.g banta, sercom etc..). The reason a portion of this globalisation fund is for dell in limerick (and support jobs in other companies) in the 1st place (and not say for someone working in a local business who was left go) is because under the terms for these funds to be released, a single incident of mass unemployment in a single company has to happen in the affected city. In this case it was dell. I'd imagine the money will be spent on : entrepreneurship workshops, help with job placement, and pre-defined courses, like the recently announced undergrad and specialised diplomas that the univiersities and IT's announced under the labour activation scheme, where people are able to attend still keep their job seekers benefit/allowance. I have no idea how this money is going to be used to stimulate employment though. Creating manufacturing jobs as someone suggested on this thread isn't realisitc I think, given that companies have been priced out of the market, partially due to high labour and energy costs. Maybe helping people get small business's off the ground would be one way to go, since we keep hearing in the news how the future is in competitive local small businesses and not major multinationals or manufacturing anymore. But with the banks rolling local business's overdrafts in, and being reluctant to give out any loans regardless of Nama, the kibosh seems to have been put on that idea.

irishvamp90

Everyone wants something postive to happen but as someone else here said there are zero jobs around.A big ball of money aint going to fix it either,its like everyone saying the opera centre being build will be great for limerick,am sorry but when shops are closing how the hell are they going to get new shops open

panda100

There is something very very shady about this. Two of my cousin was made redundant from Dell well over 13 months ago. Both were very experienced and had been working at Dell for well over a decade.
I think its a disgrace that a muli-billion corporation like Dell is allowed to move in search of cheaper and cheaper slave/workers, moving to Poland and paying €3/hour for polish workers. I think Barrosso and his EU policys completely encourage the race to the bottom.

Why wasn't this money made available to Dell workers in April or March when Dell workers had been unemployed for months? Many workers could have planned to return to college in September? Making this money available two weeks before a referendum on the EU? Its a bit like a bribe tbh and bribery is never a positive thing.

Firefox10

panda100 wrote: »

There is something very very shady about this. Two of my cousin was made redundant from Dell well over 13 months ago. Both were very experienced and had been working at Dell for well over a decade.
I think its a disgrace that a muli-billion corporation like Dell is allowed to move in search of cheaper and cheaper slave/workers, moving to Poland and paying €3/hour for polish workers. I think Barrosso and his EU policys completely encourage the race to the bottom.

Why wasn't this money made available to Dell workers in April or March when Dell workers had been unemployed for months? Many workers could have planned to return to college in September? Making this money available two weeks before a referendum on the EU? Its a bit like a bribe tbh and bribery is never a positive thing.

That's the risk you run with all the multinationals. They were here because it was a low cost economy and now we are not and it's time for them to move on. I was never under any illusion about that.

I'll admit that the timing of the announcement seems all wrong and I don't know alot about the globalisation fund but any help in any form has to be welcomed. The loss of all those jobs has had a serious effect on this city and surrounding counties and the full effects have yet to be seen. Getting people back to work and as soon as possible is a priority.

Flaccus

panda100 wrote: »

There is something very very shady about this. Two of my cousin was made redundant from Dell well over 13 months ago. Both were very experienced and had been working at Dell for well over a decade.
I think its a disgrace that a muli-billion corporation like Dell is allowed to move in search of cheaper and cheaper slave/workers, moving to Poland and paying €3/hour for polish workers. I think Barrosso and his EU policys completely encourage the race to the bottom.

Why wasn't this money made available to Dell workers in April or March when Dell workers had been unemployed for months? Many workers could have planned to return to college in September? Making this money available two weeks before a referendum on the EU? Its a bit like a bribe tbh and bribery is never a positive thing.

Because the morons at the top in this country didn't even know about the fund till a commisionar in the EU told them. Then the problem was the gov. had to match the funds the eu were going to give if the gov applied and were successful. So some campaigning went on there by Irish MEP's to get this figure down. Anyone who was affected since the Dell annoucement in January will be entitled their share now, whether that be a fas course, university course or something else. The problem I see is that noone knows who is going to be responsible for administering this at a local level. From my enquiries all I found out was the Coughlans office will have the say. Hopefully the idiots won't waste it and give it all to the **** in Fas.

Purple Gorilla

panda100 wrote: »

There is something very very shady about this. Two of my cousin was made redundant from Dell well over 13 months ago. Both were very experienced and had been working at Dell for well over a decade.
I think its a disgrace that a muli-billion corporation like Dell is allowed to move in search of cheaper and cheaper slave/workers, moving to Poland and paying €3/hour for polish workers. I think Barrosso and his EU policys completely encourage the race to the bottom.

Why wasn't this money made available to Dell workers in April or March when Dell workers had been unemployed for months? Many workers could have planned to return to college in September? Making this money available two weeks before a referendum on the EU? Its a bit like a bribe tbh and bribery is never a positive thing.

It's called capitalism. The government has no say in what Dell decides to do to cut costs.

whatdoicare

How will retraining people get them jobs when there are no jobs?? I know plenty of people (including myself) with degrees that have no job. What a waste of money- they should use that money to encourage another large business to set up shop here.

cancan

panda100 wrote: »

I think its a disgrace that a muli-billion corporation like Dell is allowed to move in search of cheaper and cheaper slave/workers, moving to Poland and paying €3/hour for polish workers. I think Barrosso and his EU policys completely encourage the race to the bottom.

And what the people in Texas who lost their jobs when dell moved some of it's manufacturing to limerick, because limerick workers were cheaper?

We priced ourselves out of the manufacturing game....Hence they left...

We should have been spending our time for the past 10 years building up locally owned enterprises, uping the skill sets of existing workers with what they had learnt with the multinationals.

Instead we piddled it away on foreign holidays, foreign cars and overpriced housing and laziness.
We did the damage to ourselves - Dell leaving was only a by product of that.

Flaccus

whatdoicare wrote: »

How will retraining people get them jobs when there are no jobs?? I know plenty of people (including myself) with degrees that have no job. What a waste of money- they should use that money to encourage another large business to set up shop here.

That's true. There are no jobs. But it's going to be hard to encourage large businesses with our current cost setup. Manufacturing is dying in this country as a result and we need to look elsewhere. Obviously as the other poster said above, encouraging local business growth should have been our goal.

panda100

cancan wrote: »

We priced ourselves out of the manufacturing game....Hence they left...

We should have been spending our time for the past 10 years building up locally owned enterprises, uping the skill sets of existing workers with what they had learnt with the multinationals.

Instead we piddled it away on foreign holidays, foreign cars and overpriced housing and laziness.
We did the damage to ourselves - Dell leaving was only a by product of that.

I believe everyone on this planet deserves a decent quality of life.
I find your comments about foreign holdidays and laziness highly insulting. So we should have slaved like dogs for pittance to keep Dell?

If pricing ourselves back into the manufacturing game means that Limerick people get paid €3 an hour to work every day of their lives?? What an aboslutely sh*t life.
I do not want to live in that type of society? Slaving away for no money,waiting for the weekend and your one holiday a year.


I completely agree with you that we should invest in locally owned,sustainable businesses, but that is not the priorities of the corporate and big business agenda of the Irish government and the EU. The banks have all but stopped loans to local enterprise.

The EU have approved a Polish government grant to Dell for €54.5 million?? A company that makes billions in profits each year? The Irish government would have given Dell something similar setting up here. You can be assured that this cycle will be repeated when Dell moves in three years time to new far east member states, where workers are paid 50cent an hour. Capitalism just isn't working.

cancan

panda100 wrote: »

I believe everyone on this planet deserves a decent quality of life.
I find your comments about foreign holdidays and laziness highly insulting. So we should have slaved like dogs for pittance to keep Dell?

If pricing ourselves back into the manufacturing game means that Limerick people get paid €3 an hour to work every day of their lives?? What an aboslutely sh*t life.
I do not want to live in that type of society? Slaving away for no money,waiting for the weekend and your one holiday a year.

Dell came here because we had cheap labour and access to the EU.
It was a huge boon at the time - Many workers got to see how a multinational organization worked.

As costs rose, the manufacturing arm became less and less viable. Workers has ample opportunity during this time to up their skills whether by obtaining a part time degree or masters in order to make our workers harder to replace, or to get better jobs.

Manufacturing is a low skilled job that is easily moved from one place to another. That was obvious for a long time now. It's finished in any country that aspires to a high standard of living. It up to people themselves to have the necessary skill sets and mentality to offer companies something they cannot get somewhere else.

A company exists not to enrich it's workforce - it exists to make a profit. If it ceases to make a profit, it ceases to exist. It is not a charity.

If capitalism does not work, why not try working for a socialist company - oh wait - there are not any.

Failing that, set up your own manufacturing company, pay your workers 15 euro and hour so they can go on loads of foreign holidays and buy nice cars, and see how long that company lasts.

While what happened was sad, people need to realise that they too are partly to blame, and they two are part of the solution, instead of pointing fingers in every direction but themselves.

Run_to_da_hills

Nothing but a charm leading up to the referendum. How much of this cash will actually end up with the workers or will most of it end up in the ar*e pockets of fatcats?

iguana

Firefox10 wrote: »

The European Commission has approved a grant of €14.8m to help former workers at Dell in Limerick to find new jobs.

They are also paying Dell €54m in order to subsidise the cost of moving to the deprived area of Lodz.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dell-approved-for-54m-subsidy-for-move-to-poland-427477.html

panda100

iguana wrote: »

They are also paying Dell €54m in order to subsidise the cost of moving to the deprived area of Lodz.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dell-approved-for-54m-subsidy-for-move-to-poland-427477.html

Its not the European Commission that are paying Dell €54 million,is it the Polish government.
However,the EU have approved this grant which means they are quite happy to facilitate the sacking of thousands of Irish workers to be replaced by Polish workers on a €3/hour wage.

cancan wrote: »

While what happened was sad, people need to realise that they too are partly to blame, and they two are part of the solution, instead of pointing fingers in every direction but themselves.

For the record my two cousins who were sacked from Dell both have masters degree's.

If you feel Limerick people themselves are to blame for mass unemployment then fair enough.
Personally,I see highly educated,hard working people on the dole queue who played no part in the global economic crash,except get on with their lives,pay taxes and buy a home for their families.

Stab*City

Whos funding the "re-training" of all the other non dell workers who have been hit just as hard if not harder because of this recession?

puntosporting

Stab*City wrote: »

Whos funding the "re-training" of all the other non dell workers who have been hit just as hard if not harder because of this recession?

Well its not the dell workers fault that this is going ahead is it?
Is it not better to help some instead of know one at all?
And how do you quantify how hard an individual is hit from a recession?
Of course im one of the ex dell employees and im all for getting help if available and i wish everyone in the country could receive the very same help but its still not clear just what help is gonna come along!
For all we know some dumb state agency could be set up to deploy these funds and end up flushing half of it down the pan!
Im not to optimistic about this whole situation myself but hell ill give anything ago to get back into some meaningfull employment and earn a living for myself! and my family!

Stab*City

puntosporting wrote: »

Well its not the dell workers fault that this is going ahead is it?
Is it not better to help some instead of know one at all?
And how do you quantify how hard an individual is hit from a recession?
Of course im one of the ex dell employees and im all for getting help if available and i wish everyone in the country could receive the very same help but its still not clear just what help is gonna come along!
For all we know some dumb state agency could be set up to deploy these funds and end up flushing half of it down the pan!
Im not to optimistic about this whole situation myself but hell ill give anything ago to get back into some meaningfull employment and earn a living for myself! and my family!

I know its not the dell workers fault that dell moved its the governments for forcing them to search for a cheaper costing alternative. but the only reason the dell workers are getting this is so that the government can save face by appearing to do something about it or better yet accepting that someone else is going to try do something about it..

i would consider someone who is out of work for the last year and a half harder hit by the recession than a dell employee who lost his job a couple months back. also i would consider all the out of work people who didnt get a redundancy pay off harder hit too..

The dell redundancies were only a fraction of the jobs that were lost so far.

lets say you guys do get this funding and do get retrained what then? is it going to be easier for you to get a job with your new skills? answer is no as there are still 150,000 and odd of us looking for jobs when there are none..

a quote from the INOU:

"Over the last year, 174,300 jobs were lost against 23,800 created. Out of the six categories where jobs were created, three are funded through the public purse and so future employment growth is doubtful."

Jarren

Crea wrote: »

Do the employee of Banta, Sercom, truck drivers, Dell suppliers who all lost their jobs because of the Dell pull out get money too?
This is populist BS!

+1 I fully agree

Firefox10

I know there are a few ex dell pople post here. Just thought I would post this update from todays Irish Examiner:

Dell workers to get €9k grants for retraining

By Ann Cahill, Europe Correspondent
Tuesday, October 27, 2009

THERE will be an average of €9,000 in retraining grants available for the unemployed Dell workers, but it will have to be spent within two years.

A special committee has been formed that includes Fás, the Enterprise Boards, third-level colleges and representatives of the Dell and Banta workers to oversee the process.

Labour MEP Alan Kelly, who has been advising the Dell workers, said that between €8,500 and €9,000 would be available to each worker and that opportunities had to be identified quickly to ensure best value can be got from the money.

The pay-out of the €14.8 million from the EU’s globalisation fund has been delayed but Mr Kelly said he expects it will be available before Christmas.

The workers and other interested bodies met the Department of Employment recently to discuss what needed to be done.

Mr Kelly said that they had agreed to include other colleges such as the Institute of Technology in Tralee in addition to University College Limerick.

Some of the workers were very low skilled and would need more basic retraining than others so it was essential to include crafts, he said.

There were also other issues to be resolved such as how to ensure best value was got for the money given the two-year deadline. "We need to find out if we can commit it to a four-year training course in advance for instance", said the Tipperary MEP.

Payment of the money based on 2,840 redundancies has been delayed as the European Parliament’s Employment Committee is questioning why the European Commission allowed the Polish government to give state aid to the Dell plant that purportedly took over the manufacturing from the Limerick plant. However according to the information given to the commission by the Irish Government, the jobs were lost not to Poland but to China.

The total retraining package for the workers from Dell and eight of its suppliers was estimated by the government at almost €23m of which the European Commission agreed to provide €14.8m.

This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Tuesday, October 27, 2009






Link: http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/dell-workers-to-get-euro9k-grants-for-retraining-104263.html

FutureGuy

God this makes me so angry it's unbelievable. WTF is so special about Dell employees...what about the other people that have been affected by redundancy? Not being smart, but aren't these the same employees that came out with huge paypackets from overtime? What about grants to help the people who lost less paying jobs?

9000 in retraining grants on top of it all?

Typical government...help Dell employees because you'll get the headlines.

Kess73

I don't see the point in being angry with Dell workers over this or asking what is so special about them.

If they can get a 9k retraining grant then fair play to them and I hope it gets some of them back into jobs.


I was let go a number of months back, not from Dell, and am not entitled to this grant. Is that fair? Maybe not but that is not the fault of Dell workers. I also have to wait until I am six full months unemplyed before I can apply for a job through the work placement programme in FAS, which is a joke in that people who actually want to work have to spend six months unemployed before going for one of these roles.

I see this grant as a cynical vote grabbing exercise by this government, but if it helps out people who are jobless, then so be it as it sure as hell won't change the way I am going to vote in the next election.

I also see this grant as a bit like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted as it was common knowledge that the jobs in Dell were going to go long before it happened, so these grants should have been in place within a month of the job cuts starting.

Also don't forget that the Dell workers are not having 9k handed to them, and that they will be forced to do any retraining within a certain timescale.


Lastly it should also be noted and remembered come elction time that our own government only put in 9 million out of the 23 million total for these grants, so if the heads in the EU had not come through with the cash, then our lot were not exactly looking like they were going to do much for the thousands that lost their jobs.

It is just a shame that after seeing the millions spend on expenses and travel by our government ministers over the years that they did not spend some of that travelling to other countries to try and encourage other companies to set up in Limerick or use some of those millions as tax incentives for new companies in Limerick.

Firefox10

FutureGuy wrote: »

God this makes me so angry it's unbelievable. WTF is so special about Dell employees...what about the other people that have been affected by redundancy? Not being smart, but aren't these the same employees that came out with huge paypackets from overtime? What about grants to help the people who lost less paying jobs?

9000 in retraining grants on top of it all?

Typical government...help Dell employees because you'll get the headlines.

I think we are missing the point here. The debate of whether former dell empolyees are getting a retraining grant or not is not important. This single loss of jobs has had a huge impact on the social and economic landscape of this city. We really need to concentrate on getting as many people back to to work as possible thus having people making their contribution to society rather than sitting on the dole costing millions in social welfare.

This may also kickstart job creation across the whole region. Look at the bigger picture. There is huge opportunity here.

FutureGuy

Firefox10 wrote: »

I think we are missing the point here. The debate of whether former dell empolyees are getting a retraining grant or not is not important. This single loss of jobs has had a huge impact on the social and economic landscape of this city. We really need to concentrate on getting as many people back to to work as possible thus having people making their contribution to society rather than sitting on the dole costing millions in social welfare.

This may also kickstart job creation across the whole region. Look at the bigger picture. There is huge opportunity here.

I have no problem with Dell employees. I have a problem that the government is helping the employees of one company and not others. Sure, not everyone can be helped, but a fairer distribution of the aid would be better imo. There are plenty of people let go by retail and other industries who would kill for a 9k retraining package.

Flaccus

FutureGuy wrote: »

God this makes me so angry it's unbelievable. WTF is so special about Dell employees...what about the other people that have been affected by redundancy? Not being smart, but aren't these the same employees that came out with huge paypackets from overtime? What about grants to help the people who lost less paying jobs?

9000 in retraining grants on top of it all?

Typical government...help Dell employees because you'll get the headlines.

It's got nothing to do with headlines. The way the globalisation fund works is a single incident of mass unemployment in a European city entitles the goverment to apply for relief to aid those workers involved. It just happened to be Dell workers. I agree the goverment should be helping non-Dell workers but the rules regarding application for globalisation funds limits them to Dell workers. It also remains to be seen how this money will be distributed. No doubt it will be sunk into Fas, the IT's and Universities. And how much benefit doing a 4 year degree will be to someone who needs to pay a mortgage and look after their family now, also remains to be seen.

Kayne

Heading to college myself in September for 4 years,

Have to say that that the government has made every effort to re-absorb all the E G F funds. If this egf fund didn't exist you still get a local authority grant(paying registration costs).There is no extra benefit from EGF.
Alternatively if you try to do a useful and relevant private course you lose your
welfare making the course unaffordable .
Fas courses ha ha (They actually have a 10 week course on interview and C.V prep???????)

Now this cowboy governent are trying to establish specialist EGF FAS courses to redirect this EU money back into its own coffers.

The whole excitement of having 9,000 over 2 years has been totally deflated.This E.G.F will have 0 impact for me and 1000s of other dell and dell related employees trying to reeducate ourselves.

Jumpy

Back awaaaaay from the lock button there Billy. Its not worth it.

Kayne

Below are some of the newly manufactured training courses avalable to EGF entitled people only.An obvious intent to direct funds away fro private training companies back to state training courses.
FÁS offers new EGF/DELLSpecific Training Programmes

EGF/Dell Limerick Logistics, Distribution and Transport Internship LK17R
EGF/Dell Limerick Business Administration Internship SH18R - Shannon based
EGF/Dell Limerick Business Administration Internship LK18R - Limerick based
EGF/Dell Limerick Financial Services Internship LK19R
EGF/Dell Limerick IT Support & Web Design Internship LK20R

Firefox11

Well the EGF money was going to go back to Europe unless they used it within the two year time frame. I think that they are halfway through that time frame so at least something is being done even if it's being done through half baked bureaucratic government agencies. :rolleyes:

I understand that there was all sorts of strings attached to how the money was going to be spent.

cee_jay

By holding FAS courses you get to keep a training allowance which is the amount you would be getting if you were signing on.
You said if you try to do a useful and relevant private course you lose your
welfare making the course unaffordable - one of the conditions of signing on is you are available for and looking for work - if you are doing a private course, you don't meet these conditions so shouldn't be entitled to keep your welfare - nobody else in the country can. I know losing Dell was a big loss to the county, but that doesn't mean you can be treated different to every other jobseeker in the country because of that.
By hosting these courses in FAS you get the training allowance. What exactly is wrong with that?

panda100

cAr0l wrote: »

By holding FAS courses you get to keep a training allowance which is the amount you would be getting if you were signing on.
You said if you try to do a useful and relevant private course you lose your
welfare making the course unaffordable - one of the conditions of signing on is you are available for and looking for work - if you are doing a private course, you don't meet these conditions so shouldn't be entitled to keep your welfare - nobody else in the country can. I know losing Dell was a big loss to the county, but that doesn't mean you can be treated different to every other jobseeker in the country because of that.
By hosting these courses in FAS you get the training allowance. What exactly is wrong with that?

I think he/she is trying to suggest that FAS courses aren't that good. They are very limited in what they offer,they are generally for those with little qualifications and there are courses in only limited fields.

A lot of the Dell workers were highly trained with masters degree's and vast experience in their technical areas. Going back to do a short course in Business admin is a bit of a waste of time for all involved tbh.

My cousin who worked in Dell was a computer analyst having trained in both the UK and US, whom is still out of work. Is their really any relevance for her to do a fas course in 'Financial services internship'? Its a waste of the money and her skills.

Why could they not make the money available without terms and conditions? People could then use the money to emigrate,further education or set up buisnesses