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Kimi back to McLaren for 2010 ..!!
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Slutmonkey57b wrote: »Again, Vectra proves that it's a waste of time attempting a logical or reasoned discussion. There was a lot between Kimi and Massa the past 2 years, namely points, results, and effort. Kimi would not have won if there hadn't been so much fighting between Lewis and Fernando, end of.
Kimi is Good. He will do Well at McLaren. That is All.
Dude
Logic or no Logic.
How in the hell can you compare those teamamtes.
Come off it ..!!
No contest there.
But
You have your opinions and I have mine
But
No Matter what Renault do to their car this year Alonso cannot do any good with it.
Kimi on the other hand .. well... the results speak for themselves.
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Alonso has about an average of half a point over Kimi but Seeing as you lot bring Massa into it let compare Alonso with Schuie.
No?
Ok
Compare whoever you like with Schmacher and they will come out of it looking badly but we are not talking about Schmacher here. Well, maybe you are but you do like to move the goalposts when the argument isn't going your way don't you?
What the hell has Massa got to do with this by the way? I am comparing Alonso's record with Raikkonens in order to prove he is more consistent which I believe I have done.Right
3.76 points Vs 4.23
Alonso outscored him there
Yes, he outscored him because he is more consistent. That is in spite of him spending a season with Minardi with basically no hope of scoring a point.
Something else you should note is that Alonso has beaten his teammates far more emphatically than Raikkonen has. I'm sure of course that you will have a wide range of excuses ready to defend this such as his teammates were better (in your opinion), he was unlucky or maybe the car didn't suit his 'style' but for the record on the occasions where Alonso and Raikkonen have beaten their teammates (6 times each) the average win margin was:
Alonso: 42.16
Raikkonen: 25.83In 2001 I see you "conveniently" left out the names of Alonsos teammates.
Tarso Marques & Alex Yoong :rolleyes:
Who are they I hear you say
To be fair to Kimi there now, Those guys were no contest.
Kimi was up against Quick Nick
To be quite honest I didn't see the point in even including Marques and Yoong's names simply because in that first season the Minardi couldn't have scored a point unless 3/4 of the field retired.
Yes, Raikkonen was up against Heidfeld, who beat him. What's your point?03/04
Alonso Vs Trulli
Kimi Vs Coulthard
I would rate Coulthard higher than Mr Quali.
You are basing your argument on your biased opinions, not on facts as I am doing so I'm not going to entertain anything that you cannot back up with facts especially this laughable comment:07
Kimi Vs Massa << Better driver than Lewis then
Kimi takes the title
What are you talking about? Why are you bringing Hamilton into this and how does it prove that Raikkonen is a better driver? Try to concentrate Vectra, we are talking about Alonso and Raikkonen here, not Schumacher, not Hamilton and not Massa ok?Alonso against a rookie and couldnt beat him
He didn't lose to him though did he? I guess that could be considered a success since you are constantly carping on about Hamilton receiving favorable treatment.So
I still dont really see what all the hype with alonso is.He is not unbeatable as was Schumacher.. ( I know it did happen but not often )
I might be wrong but you seem to be the only person bringing up Schumacher in this thread and I really don't know why because it doesn't help your argument at all.0 -
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Cartoon_Head wrote: »You are basing your argument on your biased opinions, not on facts as I am doing so I'm not going to entertain anything that you cannot back up with facts especially this laughable comment:
.
Look
I dont want to get into any stupid long drawn out debates with you or anyone here.
But to be fair.
You are going off the rails there a small bit now
Trulli Vs Coulthard
Me saying Coulthard is better being Biased in my opinion
Then you go on about Facts this and Facts that
How about this for a fact.
Trulli scored a total of 236.5 out of 212 starts
Coulthard scored 535 out of 246 starts
Do you famous calculations there please and come up with a Massive difference in points average 0 -
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Look
I dont want to get into any stupid long drawn out debates with you or anyone here.
But to be fair.
You are going off the rails there a small bit now
Trulli Vs Coulthard
Me saying Coulthard is better being Biased in my opinion
Then you go on about Facts this and Facts that
How about this for a fact.
Trulli scored a total of 236.5 out of 212 starts
Coulthard scored 535 out of 246 starts
Do you famous calculations there please and come up with a Massive difference in points average
I'm not surprised that you don't want to get into a debate since you are clearly on the losing side of this one.
It's only natural that Couthard would have scored that many points considering he spent the vast majority of his career at top level teams such as Williams and then McLaren before finishing up at Red Bull. Trulli on the other hand didn't have such luck and drove for the likes of Minardi, Prost, Jordan and most recently Toyota. His most successful spell was with Renault driving alongside, you guessed it, Alonso.
While I appreciate your attempt to actually back up your argument with a few facts, it is unfortunate for you that the ones you chose to use don't help your case in the slightest.0 -
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Cartoon_Head wrote: »I'm not surprised that you don't want to get into a debate since you are clearly on the losing side of this one.
It's only natural that Couthard would have scored that many points considering he spent the vast majority of his career at top level teams such as Williams and then McLaren before finishing up at Red Bull. Trulli on the other hand didn't have such luck and drove for the likes of Minardi, Prost, Jordan and most recently Toyota. His most successful spell was with Renault driving alongside, you guessed it, Alonso.
While I appreciate your attempt to actually back up your argument with a few facts, it is unfortunate for you that the ones you chose to use don't help your case in the slightest.
Again you try to sidestep my point, which was that Trulli does not come close to Coulthard in skill.
Therefore it is wrong of you to say Alonso was a better driver because he beat his teammates more than Kimi did.
A blind man could see that All of Kimi's Teammates would be more difficult to beat than what Alonso was up against.
but if that is how you wat to rate him best of luck to you.
I dont. 0 -
OK, MODERATOR HAT OFF FOR THIS ONE.
Ok vectra, we get it that you are a big kimi fan, and as far as i can see from your posts, he can do no wrong, which is fair enough as we all have our own opinions.
But, please wake up to the facts that have been posted comparing his sucess to alonso.This is black and white, and to argue against them makes you look a bit silly.
Kimi is a massivly talented driver, but he has his flaws:
1.he struggles with setup
2.is lazy when things are not going his way
3.is not as dedicated as many other driver on the grid.
4 is not a team player.
In terms of his media appeal, he in not a favourite for advertisers, he comes across poorly in interviews and commercials and carries few personal sponsors.
Now this is not a character assination or anything, just more info for you to consider when comparing him to other drivers, such as Alonso mentioned earlier.
Alonso can setup a car probably better than anyone else on the grid, i dont think he knows the word lazy, is a favorite with sponsors and carries many of his own and can play the team game very well.
Again, this is not putting alonso on a pedestal or anything, just more information to consider when putting him in a heads up with others.
I am sure you are ( as others are ) picking me up wrong.
I am not trying to make Kimi look good.
What I believe is that Alonso is not the Messiah that people seem to think he is.
I know Kimi has his faults but to be fair.
when did you ever see him to act the maggot with his teamate ?
( Hungary 2007 for example, Alonso in the pits ):rolleyes:
Teamplayer my eye.. Who did Alonso ever help?
Alonso can set up a car
Yes,
But I do recall Martin whitmarsh stating that Kimi does not say much butwhat he does say is exactly to the point in terms of setup and is rarely wrong. ( Highly intellegent ) are the words he used I think.
But hey.
As I said earlier in the post.
Whatever floats your boats.
I think Alonso is overrated to be honest.
I also think Kimi nor any other driver is worth what Kimi gets paid.
Happy now? 0 -
Wow I start on my road trip across the states and I check the motorsport news and it seems all hell has broken loose. Flavio gets an indefinate ban, kimi is back to Mclaren.
Well at least Vectra has gone on another Kimi crusade, thank God some things have stayed the same:)
Wayhey bud.
Hows the roadtrip going?
Having fun I hope :cool:
Well,
I thought I had better kep the place alive while you were away,
We dont want it dying now do we 0 -
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Again you try to sidestep my point, which was that Trulli does not come close to Coulthard in skill.
Therefore it is wrong of you to say Alonso was a better driver because he beat his teammates more than Kimi did.
A blind man could see that All of Kimi's Teammates would be more difficult to beat than what Alonso was up against.
but if that is how you wat to rate him best of luck to you.
I dont.
Point 1 Is this the David Coulthard who holds the record for the most crashes in one race. I believe during the 1998 Belgium he crashed about 4 or 5 times, having to come back into the pits every time for repair or a new car. I have the race on DVD. Its probaly the worst driving I have ever seen. Coulthard NEVER beat a decent F1 teammate. Full stop. At least Trulli had Alonsos number for half a season.
Point 2 I just want to say that using average points, or wins, or poles, or fastest laps is not an accurate way to compare drivers. If can just as easily be used as a metric of who had the best car. Performances against team mates is the most accurate, but still not perfect metric we have0 -
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Well.
I did say I had enough of it on a couple of occasions but some members just wanted to keep it going.
I was only joining in on the fun
Wind them up I say
You are a troll and you just admitted it.
You contribute nothing of interest and seem to delight in talking absolute rubbish all the time. Up until now I just thought you were an idiot but since I now know you definitely are a troll you have just earned the dubious honour of becoming the very first person on my ignore list.0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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