***The definitive Andy Reid thread***

IRISHSPORTSGUY

A player in particular whose non-selection is causing controversy in sections of the media. We shall follow his progress on this thread.

Andy has had a very good start to the season - shed a ton of weight during the summer, and is in excellent form so far. As Steve Bruce said "There's never been any question about his ability".

He has clawed his way back into the starting line-up and he grabbed his opportunity scoring twice against Norwich in the League Cup and 1 assist from a corner. Another goal against Hull in the PL and another assist from a corner. MOTM yesterday for Sunderland even though they lost plus it was his defence-splitting pass that set up Bent for an easy tap-in.

I follow Sunderland by the way so I'll be able to give an elaborate account of his progress.

PHB

The real interesting thing is that Reid has switched to being a possible left winger. Now, if he can continue that form, there's really no reason why Trap shouldn't consider him.

I was in favour of Trap not playing him in midfield, he just didn't fit into the system he wanted to play and thats that. But Reid on the left is probably up their as our best winger after Duff, or close to it. He should get a chance there imo.

Dante

Whenever I've seen him this season he has been impressive. I never rated him before but he seems to have stepped up to the plate now with the weight loss and actually tracking back more. As everyone has said a million times before, from his performances this year he deserves to be in the Ireland squad if not the starting 11. I wonder if he can keep it up for the rest of the season or if he will just fade away.

The Muppet

I watched the highlights of teh game this morning, he looks fit and played very well yesteday. He should certainly be in the Irish squad, he's better than some of the dross in there.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote: »

The real interesting thing is that Reid has switched to being a possible left winger. Now, if he can continue that form, there's really no reason why Trap shouldn't consider him.

I was in favour of Trap not playing him in midfield, he just didn't fit into the system he wanted to play and thats that. But Reid on the left is probably up their as our best winger after Duff, or close to it. He should get a chance there imo.

See, I don't really like this argument - that Reid doesn't fit into the 442 in the centre. I accept that he doesn't, not as a first choice - but I still can't understand why he is not selected in the squad - as a creative and different type of player to bring on if we are looking for a goal or two in the last 20 minutes or so.

He would be one of the better passers and creative players that actually wants to play for us, so i really don't understand why he isn't in the squad as an option at the very least.

Mikeyt086

Andy Reid for Ireland!

That_Guy

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Andy Reid for Ireland!

My thoughts exactly.

pickarooney

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but I still can't understand why he is not selected in the squad - as a creative and different type of player to bring on if we are looking for a goal or two in the last 20 minutes or so.

Any player with the ability to create a goal or two given 20 miuntes should be starting every match. That's not to say I think Reid is worth that; I think his ability to turn a game is overrated.

Have a lot of time for Reid & he's had a super start to the season, should be in the Irish set up without doubt.

Boskowski

Ye, he's after growing on me. He seems to have gotten a kick up his backside and actually looks like a professional footballer now. Ability was always there, never questioned that.
In the current form he seems to have something to offer. Better than that headless chicken Hunt anyway. Also he sure is a better footballer than the other two guys in the middle of the park, but for Trap he has to compete with their workrate. I think he should be on the squad. Whether he should be starting all the time that's a different question.

Mitch Connor

pickarooney wrote: »

Any player with the ability to create a goal or two given 20 miuntes should be starting every match. That's not to say I think Reid is worth that; I think his ability to turn a game is overrated.

He has more ability to do so than Glen Whelan or Kieth Andres or Liam Miller.

I would agree with the people who say he doesn't ft into the startign line-up trap will pick in terms of style. I accept that - but in games where we are chasing a goal, a player different to what we start with is what is needed, and Reid is one of the few creative players we can call upon. He should be in the squad and on the bench at least - so that we do have something different to turn to in the last 20minutes or so, should we need it.

~Rebel~

pickarooney wrote: »

Any player with the ability to create a goal or two given 20 miuntes should be starting every match. That's not to say I think Reid is worth that; I think his ability to turn a game is overrated.

the point is if we're a goal down, he's an option to come on so we can switch to only 1 DMF and allow him to try and create something.

Definately worth a place in the squad anyway to add a bit of depth to both center mid and out wide, particularly with his newfound attitude adjustment

IRISHSPORTSGUY

SAFC currently 2 up in their Carling Cup match against Birmingham, Andy made a quality cross for Frazier Campbell's goal. On-form by all means.:)

stovelid

The thread is a little like Andy himself: currently slim enough, but will no doubt expand to elephantine proportions once the manager becomes accustomed to it.

killwill

Is the reason he is not selected more to do with his love for music than his football ability? Trap is way too stubborn for his own good and won't change his mind unfortunately.

Mad_Max

Never really had any sympathy for Reid. He had been a professional footballer for what 8 odd years before deciding that he would finally get in proper shape. That to me just signaled a lazy attitude and as such didn't even merit a place in the squad.

If he has changed his work ethic then don't see why he shouldn't be considered for future squads.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Interesting thread on a Sunderland messageboard about Reid's international absence:

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=443309

8-10

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Interesting thread on a Sunderland messageboard about Reid's international absence:

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=443309

The link in there to this is interesting.

Mr.Nice Guy

In my opinion Carsley would be more effective than Reid for the current system and I find his omission much more irritating.

I'm not sure Reid actually merits a place in the first XI but he definitely should be in the squad. What bothers me most is the mindset behind it. We are told it's because he, and McCann prior to his injury, weren't going to be selected because they don't fit the system. This suggests that Trap doesn't have a Plan B beyond his main system.

If we lose an early goal or two we are basically going to be screwed, unless we find ourselves on the end of a huge stroke of luck as happened against Georgia with that dodgy penalty award.

noodler

This "he is finally in shape" lark is a load of bull. Is it a different player who was vitally important for us in our last two qualifying campaigns? Who stole the show when the Germans came to Croker? Who has been proved many times that his prozone stats are as good as most?

Fact is, Reid was good enough for this squad, hell team IMO, well before this current spurt of good form.

Not having him in the team just about makes sense for Trap's dire midfield system but not having him in the aquad is inexcusable.

I wish people would stop pretending his absence has anything to do with footballing reasons.

d22ontour

It's not like an alleged unfit overweight guitar strummer would have anything less to offer the irish squad than players who where without clubs or even making the bench at some clubs.It's the system that has carried us to within a play off place when looking at opposition teams performances should have seen us top of this group.Apparently we seem to be happy to make a play off which will more than likely see us humbled regarding our sub-par performances thus far.Hey lets give the manager a new contract too because it seems we are more than capable of beating any team who finishes second in their group.You play your best team to progress in any competition why should we as a football nation have to suffer inadequate squad selections that have fumbled us to 2nd spot when 1st should have been ripe for taking everytime ?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Andy is certainly clocking up the assists. Played well and a cracking corner for Turner's goal against Wolves this afternoon.

Aidric

It's beyond shameful that he continues to be overlooked.

gosplan

noodler wrote: »

This "he is finally in shape" lark is a load of bull. Is it a different player who was vitally important for us in our last two qualifying campaigns? Who stole the show when the Germans came to Croker? Who has been proved many times that his prozone stats are as good as most?

Fact is, Reid was good enough for this squad, hell team IMO, well before this current spurt of good form.

Not having him in the team just about makes sense for Trap's dire midfield system but not having him in the aquad is inexcusable.

I wish people would stop pretending his absence has anything to do with footballing reasons.

This is really really getting old. Our last qualifying campaigns were crap and his prozone stats couldn't keep him from getting dropped at Sunderland.

Trappatoni is a DEFENSIVE manager. Anyone with a clue expected very defensive tactics from him. His defensive tactics don't include playing either a winger who can't chase back or an offensive central midfielder who isn't good enough to play first team football at his club.

I've no doubt that Trapp snubbed Reid to prove a point about authority to the squad but it's obvious to anyone that he wouldn't have done that to an indispensable player.

If Reid keeps playing the way he is, then he'll be in the end team and he'll deserve it but up until now Trapp's pretty much gotten away with dropping him simply because he hasn't been very good.

Boggles

Saw bits and pieces of the match today, Reid looked very decent.

Richardson at left back though doesn't, Bruce doing his best to Kevin Kilbane him. :eek:

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

This is really really getting old. Our last qualifying campaigns were crap and his prozone stats couldn't keep him from getting dropped at Sunderland.

Trappatoni is a DEFENSIVE manager. Anyone with a clue expected very defensive tactics from him. His defensive tactics don't include playing either a winger who can't chase back or an offensive central midfielder who isn't good enough to play first team football at his club.

I've no doubt that Trapp snubbed Reid to prove a point about authority to the squad but it's obvious to anyone that he wouldn't have done that to an indispensable player.

If Reid keeps playing the way he is, then he'll be in the end team and he'll deserve it but up until now Trapp's pretty much gotten away with dropping him simply because he hasn't been very good.

Yet it does include a midfielder that while part of a few squads wasn't good enough to even be at a club.

All this crap about Ried not being good enough defensively is a pile of tosh imo. Maybe he isn't - maybe that should and does rule him out of a starting spot; but he should be in the squad and on the bench at the very least. at least he would offer us a bit of creative imagination that the likes of Andrews, Whelan, Gibson and Miller do not.

If you are a goal down a bunch of defensive minded midfielders are not the greatest options to have in reserve. Reid is the best option we have for that.

deadhead13

The lastest Trappattoni comments on Andy Reid - if Ireland qualify for the world cup Reid and Carsley will be included in the preliminary 40 man squad. They must now prove they deserve to be in the final party.

"I watched Reid play last week and thought he played well. I am looking at Reid...he created a good goal last week"

Nalz

deadhead13 wrote: »

"I watched Reid play last week and thought he played well. I am looking at Reid...he created a good goal last week"

All we can do now is wait, and pray!

Mr Alan

its only right that he is only being considered for a call up now considering its only now he bothered to get himself into shape.

CHD

He won't be in the squad until the Euro's qualifiers imo.

Mr Alan

probably fair. current squad has gotten us close to qualifying. not really fair if he swans in cause he bothered to lose some weight.

CHD

Mr Alan wrote: »

probably fair. current squad has gotten us close to qualifying. not really fair if he swans in cause he bothered to lose some weight.

Exactly, but if he keeps up his good form he'd have every right to pip Miler or the likes to creep into the squad.

Lemlin

Trap seems very loyal to his initial selections. Should Keith Fahey not be getting a chance now too? He's playing regularly for Birmingham.

Kevin Foley at Wolves is also an option in defence. Is he in the latest squad?

CHD

I reckon he will bring in these new players next campaign. Be interesting to see if he changes things, i think he will.

He has settled with the current squad/tactics for this campaign and will see it out with them

Nalz

Lemlin wrote: »

Trap seems very loyal to his initial selections. Should Keith Fahey not be getting a chance now too? He's playing regularly for Birmingham.

Kevin Foley at Wolves is also an option in defence. Is he in the latest squad?

The list could go on - Best, Trundle, Morrison all scored at the weekend. Then you have Delap, McCann (injured) Carsley (retired again), Carr (retired I think), Rowlands, Fahey, the two McCarthys, Brian Murphy of Bohemians, Lee etc etc. I think Shelley of Bohs should also be in with a shout.

But Liam Miller gets in some how...

Lemlin

CHD wrote: »

I reckon he will bring in these new players next campaign. Be interesting to see if he changes things, i think he will.

He has settled with the current squad/tactics for this campaign and will see it out with them

But why see it out with them?

Kevin Kilbane is playing left back and has shown he isn't up to it. Why not move someone else in there?

Whelan and Andrews have consistently struggled at midfield. Yes, we've got results but never comfortably.

I hope Steven Reid is fully fit for the next two games because he's needed badly.

ctrl-alt-delete

Lemlin wrote: »

I hope Steven Reid is fully fit for the next two games because he's needed badly.

There is very little chance he will be fully fit for the next 2 games, and i don't think Blackburn would be too happy with Ireland playing him in either.


As for Andy Reid, he should be in the squad. He was better than a lot there at the moment even when running as the top weight in the Handicap.

LowOdour

Wonder will Trap bring Reid into the squad if Duff and McGeady are out injured for the 2 matches. Of course as a backup to Steven Hunt though!

noodler

gosplan wrote: »

This is really really getting old. Our last qualifying campaigns were crap and his prozone stats couldn't keep him from getting dropped at Sunderland.

Trappatoni is a DEFENSIVE manager. Anyone with a clue expected very defensive tactics from him. His defensive tactics don't include playing either a winger who can't chase back or an offensive central midfielder who isn't good enough to play first team football at his club.

I've no doubt that Trapp snubbed Reid to prove a point about authority to the squad but it's obvious to anyone that he wouldn't have done that to an indispensable player.

If Reid keeps playing the way he is, then he'll be in the end team and he'll deserve it but up until now Trapp's pretty much gotten away with dropping him simply because he hasn't been very good.

Mitch's response to this awful excuse was very good.

Nevertheless, are you serious? Not good enough to play first team football for his club? Ahem, Gibson, Whelan and Miller. All players who were nowhere near the first teams of their respective clubs when this campaign started (Miller clubless) and yet were started in the majority of games.

No doubting Whelan and Gibson have somewhat improved but using the lack of first time football as an argument certainly isn't becoming of some one who "has a clue".

gosplan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yet it does include a midfielder that while part of a few squads wasn't good enough to even be at a club.

Yes but he has about as much chance as getting a game for Ireland as Reid does. However, there's no point in Miller being in the squad, I'll grant you that. I thik it's probably just a case of there being no point in making inconsequential changes mid-qualifying when everything's going well.

I do wonder what the response would have been if Trappatoni had taken Reid back and never played him though. I imagine it would have been interesting.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

All this crap about Ried not being good enough defensively is a pile of tosh imo. Maybe he isn't - maybe that should and does rule him out of a starting spot; but he should be in the squad and on the bench at the very least. at least he would offer us a bit of creative imagination that the likes of Andrews, Whelan, Gibson and Miller do not.

As far as I see it, he's a non-essential player who was physically out of shape and had a discipline issue with the management team. He seems to be playing his way back into the squad now but it's not too surprising he was given the cold shoulder for a while.

noodler wrote: »

Mitch's response to this awful excuse was very good.

I know, he's great.

noodler wrote: »

Nevertheless, are you serious? Not good enough to play first team football for his club? Ahem, Gibson, Whelan and Miller. All players who were nowhere near the first teams of their respective clubs when this campaign started (Miller clubless) and yet were started in the majority of games.

Started? You sure?

noodler wrote: »

No doubting Whelan and Gibson have somewhat improved but using the lack of first time football as an argument certainly isn't becoming of some one who "has a clue".

Anyway I was making two points.

The first is about the prozone stats you mentioned as being evidence of Reid's quality. What I'm saying is that his prozone stats didn't mean much to consecutive Sunderland managers.

The second is about Trappatoni. He's defensive. He'll pick sh*tkickers like Whealen and Andrews (no offense guys) to run around midfield and tackle all day long. He won't pick players like Reid who are a luxury yet produce very little end product.

Obviously we're going to have players that don't start for their clubs.

noodler

ProZone stats are not indicative of Reid's quality - they are indicative however of his fitness.

Andy Reid's quality has been evident everytime he has put on an Irish shirt.

And yes I am certain Gibson and Whelan have started nearly every game this campaign (not Miller fair enough) but the point remains and can't be discarded.

Andy Reid is a luxury? Has little end product? Bull**** my friend. Lets put his great srate to this season aside, off the top of my head I can think of a handful of international goals he has scored or setup. One player in the centre of midfield who can actually pass a football more than 10 yards shouldn't be viewed as a luxury - it is a necessity.

JimiTime

Football wise, Andy Reid should be in the Ireland squad. Footballing wise, he should never have been out of the Ireland squad. There is NO DOUBT that his non-inclusion is nothing to do with football. Yet people discuss if he should be in the squad or not! You'd need to be a complete moron to think, 'FOR FOOTBALLING reasons Reid should not be in the SQUAD.

Its obvious, its not for football reasons he's not included. So then its down to if you trust Trappatoni's judgement in leaving him out for whatever reason. Again though, football wise, its an absolute no brainer that he should be in the SQUAD. Then you can have a football discussion about the merits of him being in the first 11.

gosplan

noodler wrote: »

ProZone stats are not indicative of Reid's quality - they are indicative however of his fitness.

Andy Reid's quality has been evident everytime he has put on an Irish shirt.

And yes I am certain Gibson and Whelan have started nearly every game this campaign (not Miller fair enough) but the point remains and can't be discarded.

Andy Reid is a luxury? Has little end product? Bull**** my friend. Lets put his great srate to this season aside, off the top of my head I can think of a handful of international goals he has scored or setup. One player in the centre of midfield who can actually pass a football more than 10 yards shouldn't be viewed as a luxury - it is a necessity.

Well then you should have complained before Trappatoni was appointed.

He views two tough tackling defensive players as the necessity of central midfield.

Edited to include: Actually I'd be willing to bet that if Reid does play for Ireland again, it won't be as one of two centre mids. He'll go in instead of a striker or as a winger. Till late he's been nowhere near dislodging any of our current starters in those positions.

noodler

gosplan wrote: »

Well then you should have complained before Trappatoni was appointed.

He views two tough tackling defensive players as the necessity of central midfield.

Edited to include: Actually I'd be willing to bet that if Reid does play for Ireland again, it won't be as one of two centre mids. He'll go in instead of a striker or as a winger. Till late he's been nowhere near dislodging any of our current starters in those positions.

Given Trap has been saying he sees him as a winger, I'd say you'd win that bet....

I'd have him over Hunt or McGeady anyday on the right. Anything to ee some service coming through to the strikers on the floor again. McGeady has had very few real impacts on Irish games for all his runs whilst Hunt is a grafter but not exactly a creative force.

The Rooster

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

In my opinion Carsley would be more effective than Reid for the current system and I find his omission much more irritating.

When was the last time you saw Carsley play?

His manager, who sees him every day, has decided to start him in only 2 of their 7 league games so far. In another game he came on as sub and was taken off again (not injured). Again at the weekend he was an unused sub. Both Whelan and Andrews are significantly superior to Carsley.

Andy Reid deserved to be dropped for disciplinary reasons. And when dropped for those reasons you can't expect to be brought back when you are in and out of your club side and you're overweight. However, now that's he's finally lost the excess weight, and secured a regular place in the Sunderland side and is playing well, I thought this squad would have been the opportune time to let bygones be bygones. Disappointing that the mgt team didnt see it that how. However, if McGeady and/or Duffer have to pull out then surely Andy Reid has to be brought in.

Mitch Connor

The Rooster wrote: »

His manager, who sees him every day, has decided to start him in only 2 of their 7 league games so far. In another game he came on as sub and was taken off again (not injured). Again at the weekend he was an unused sub. Both Whelan and Andrews are significantly superior to Carsley.

But Liam Miller has been in the Ireland squad while not being at any club at all.

Fall_Guy

Why do people keep going on about Trap's need for two "tough-tackling" defensive midfielders with a high work-rate? Am I the only one that see's that Whelan is not a hard-tackling defensive midfielder? He considers himself a playmaker (granted Idon't think he is very good as this role as Ireland never seem to be able to hold onto the ball), and he definitely does not make many hard tackles in a game, more often than not electing to stand off the opposition.

If Trap thinks Whelan is the best man for the job of ball-winner/sitting midfielder used primarily to break up play, I think he is sadly mistaken. Surely Carsley is a better "sh1tkicker" than Whelan, to use a phrase someone else used in the thread? Now maybe whelan is more willing to follow Trap's game plan than Reid, but I honestly don't think Whelan's defensive qualities mark him out ahead of Reid significantly from what I have seen.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Cracking assist for Kenwyne's goal.

Eire-Dearg

It's a crime he's not in the squad to be honest.

angel01

He deserves a chance, I want his diet plan

Bandit12

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

It's a crime he's not in the squad to be honest.

It's not really a crime you know