What it means to be a LOI fan.

ANTIFA!

The love that dare not speak its name

By Eamonn Sweeney
Sunday September 20 2009
I fell in love again last week. We've had our ups and downs and there have been times when I've wondered if it's worth the trouble. There have been disappointments, arguments and trial separations. But I've never been able to make the final break. The memories of the good times kept me going.

And on Tuesday night I was reminded why we've stuck together all those years. It's because this relationship has given me some of the best times of my life and because it can still provide the same fireworks as it did when I was a younger man. Logic doesn't apply when you're talking about love. A man in love has no choice. Most fans of what I will always, with apologies to eircom, call the League of Ireland are motivated by love. Domestic soccer has few casual fans because it rarely picks up enough momentum to set a bandwagon rolling. It demands not just your love but your faith, your hope and your charity.

Being a League of Ireland fan is like being a member of some small creed whose adherents make amends for their lack of numbers by fervency and dedication. Its grounds are perhaps the equivalents of those small town gospel halls where members of the Christian Brethren continue to practice their faith, their belief in the truth of what has been revealed to them not one whit lessened by the greater numbers attending other churches.

Sometimes that faith gets rewarded spectacularly, as it did on Tuesday night when I went to The Showgrounds and saw Sligo Rovers beat Bohemians 2-1 in an FAI Cup quarter-final replay. It was a magical night, not least because of the football played by Bohs, for my money the best team the league has seen for a decade. In the first half, with the marvellous double act of Joseph Ndo and Killian Brennan pulling the strings, they outclassed Rovers and should have led by more than 1-0 at the break.

Bohemians are a tribute to the instincts of their manager Pat Fenlon, who passed the ball beautifully as a player and insists that his charges try to follow his lead. Sligo's manager Paul Cook, a man with over 500 appearances in the Football League, is cut from the same cloth. Outclassed they may have been but Sligo tried to make their way back into the game by playing skilful football. Fortune favoured this act of bravery, a flowing move from their own half ended with Conor O'Grady equalising and soon afterwards winger Eoin Doyle struck a great winner. There were miracle escapes, mazy dribbles, last-ditch clearances, juddering tackles, all the stuff you'd need for a perfect night's entertainment. In the end, the league returns your love. It doesn't let you down.

At the same time as I was watching Sligo, the fans of Sporting Fingal saw their team shock Shamrock Rovers, Waterford United travelled to Dublin and knocked out St Pat's and Bray Wanderers made their way into the last four by disposing of Longford Town. Yet fewer Irish football 'fans' saw those matches than saw the more or less pointless, and rather dull, televised Champions League match between Manchester United and Besiktas. The couch potato majority were the big losers on the night.

Love of League of Ireland is the love that dare not speak its name. Or, at the very least, the love that's not supposed to. In these enlightened liberal times, you can parade through the streets in leather hot pants, you can set up home with whoever you want to, you can even confess to voting for Martin Cullen and nobody will bat an eyelid. Mention that you'd prefer to travel to The Showgrounds, Oriel Park or Turners Cross to watch your local team instead of to a pub with a big screen and Bulmers on draught to watch teams from cities you couldn't find on a map, however, and you're treated with the same kind of suspicion encountered by roving Jehovah's Witnesses in 1940s Ireland.

It's not enough for the League of Ireland merely to be ignored, there also seems to be a desire to serially deride it, to sneer at its fans, to recommend that it be liquidated altogether, perhaps so it can be replaced by some newly minted plutocrat-owned franchise which could enter the hallowed world of English soccer. In the Tiger era, this chorus of disapproval reached a crescendo. The League of Ireland was an embarrassment, perhaps because it's hard to imagine anything less Nouveau Riche. Though, in truth, it wasn't very Oldveau Riche either.

Like hare coursing and **** fighting, the very existence of League of Ireland soccer is treated as a personal affront by a sizeable number of people. It is execrated by the barstool Premier League devotee and the GAA supremacist alike.

Perhaps that's because a great many GAA supremacists are also barstool Premier League devotees. It never fails to surprise me that so many men who will wax lyrical till the cows have not only come home but got dressed up and gone out for the evening about the wonders of the little GAA club will also proclaim ad nauseam their attachment to an English soccer team.

Yet, while no one would deny the authenticity at the heart of Gaelic games fandom, there is something deeply shallow about the affection of Irish sports fans for English soccer teams. A minority of men and women spend a lot of time and money making the journey across the water to follow their favourite teams. But I find it difficult to take seriously support for a team based on totally arbitrary criteria.

Why, after all, does the man from Mitchelstown support Manchester United, the lad from Listowel love Liverpool, the chap from Callan cheer for Chelsea? Generally because they noticed that this team won more often than others, or were supported by most of the boys in the class or had a nice-looking geansai. You don't, as the saying goes, choose your club, you inherit it. But while that's true of Gaelic games or League of Ireland soccer, the opposite is true of Irish Premier League fans. They do choose their club and they try to choose one that wins. It's probably an enjoyable pastime but there's nothing genuine about it. Just how shallow this support is was brought home to me when I read an article about the magnificent Irish support apparently enjoyed by Liverpool. The writer informed us that Colm Cooper was "a die-hard Liverpool fan . . . whose big ambition is to one day visit Anfield."

Colm Cooper might be my favourite Gaelic footballer but I'm inclined to doubt the depth of his passion for Liverpool. Getting to Anfield from Killarney is not, after all, like setting out to conquer Mount Everest or walk to the South Pole. I'd be just as sceptical if a man told me he was a die-hard music fan whose big ambition was to one day go to a gig. There are plenty of Irish soccer 'fans' out there whose dedication is of the same order.

By contrast, supporting your local League of Ireland club is a genuine, a good, an honest and a decent thing in a world bedevilled by hype and sophistry. Above all, it is something real. As real as love.

Good article, not everything I agree with but the type of article which belongs on an Irish soccer forum.

NotWormBoy

Its not a bad article - quite well written, even if I don't agree with alot of it. I'd have been a lot more impressed if there wasn't so much "siege mentality" feeling about it, if there wasn't a smug feeling of superiority behind it all. Fans shouldn't feel the need to deride other fans for how genuine they are, or how often they go to their ground, etc - regardless of how much abuse they may get themselves for being fans of a particular club/competition. Live and let live, no?

As you say though, perfect for this forum.

stovelid

WARNING

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!!! The article reproduced in this thread contains a barstool reference !!!

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Melion

Eirebear

To be honest the only thing i see described in that article is a football fan.

As much as i dislike the overated league in England, and as much as i find it a little weird how huge a following it has in Ireland, i am left with one question.

What the **** is a "League of Ireland fan"?

Seriously, you dont support a whole league, you support a football team. Just like the rest of us.

One team, and all the rivalries and friendships that come with it.

Maybe fans of clubs who play within the League of Ireland should remember that, because this whole "League of Ireland Fan" nonsense only seems to drive people away in my experience.

CiaranC

NotWormBoy wrote: »

Fans shouldn't feel the need to deride other fans for how genuine they are, or how often they go to their ground, etc - regardless of how much abuse they may get themselves for being fans of a particular club/competition. Live and let live, no?

How anyone who claims to be a football fan could be of the above opinion is beyond belief.

Sunset V

Eirebear wrote: »

What the **** is a "League of Ireland fan"?

Seriously, you dont support a whole league, you support a football team. Just like the rest of us..

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

I do agree with some people who say that LoI fans have a chip on their shoulder but you also have to see their side of the argument too. The rich cousin gets richer and richer, more TV coverage, attendances staying strong while here it's a bleak future. When you love the LoI you love it with a passion and want it to succeed, not just your own team. I think that's what a LoI fan is to be honest.

Anto McC

Eirebear wrote: »

Seriously, you dont support a whole league, you support a football team. Just like the rest of us.

Exactly. Great point.

Sunset V wrote: »

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

Can't say i agree with that. I never ever thought i'd see the day when i'd be happy to see Bohs win something but if it's over Rovers then i will be. Rovers haven't even won anything and already they are drowning in their own self importance and smugness. With a holier than thou attitude when they cut the same corners as Shels, Drogheda and many before but they think it's ok because they can blame it on the board in power at the time. Yeah, well who can't?

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

One of the things i hate about LOI is this. Why would anyone cheer on their rivals? If Pats had got to the Europa league, it would have been worth a fortune to them, why would i, as a Shels fan, want to see them get further ahead of us than they already are?

When you love the LoI you love it with a passion and want it to succeed, not just your own team. I think that's what a LoI fan is to be honest.

Again, i disagree although i realise that i am one of a small few who feels this way. I stopped being a LOI fan years ago. I'm a Shels fan and a Shels fan only, the rest of the league can go to hell for all i care.

Dub13

The first part of the article is good,a nice piece about a man and his love for his club.I am not sure why he then goes off on a rant about another League.

stovelid

It's a matter of fact that you have more in common with LOI fans, often because of the derision and uninformed opinion that you encounter from some sectors of the football community.

To be honest, I do feel that I have some kind of common ground with LOI supporters, but I'm not too sure about 'supporting the league'. I don't mind seeing some LOI teams do OK (as long as it doesn't give disadvantage to Rovers) but I revel in the failure of others.

I think people take the comments of people like Sweeney re: EPL too seriously. He's on a wind-up (and 'apologies to Eircom'...wtf).Irish United and Liverpool fans, for example, swap far more semi-vicious banter here and elsewhere. Same when we play England. Yet any gentle ribbing about the LOI/EPL and it's big wounded faces and calls for play-fair.

Also gently ribbing armchair support is hardly a LOI invention. You think your Mancs, Scousers and the like don't do it about sections of their own support as well?

Dub13

I have more in common with real football fans be they in Drumcondra,Dundee or Doncaster.When I say real fans I mean real fans who know football,lads who know how to support their team and take a defeat for what it is.

You don't have to brag about the games you go to or the 'classics' you were at,supporting your team is about just that supporting them not putting other teams sets of fans down.

I would suggest that because Mr Eamonn Sweeney has to go bragging in a national paper about how much of a 'Superfan' he is that he in fact has a huge chip on his shoulder.

DSB

Dub13 wrote: »

I have more in common with real football fans be they in Drumcondra,Dundee or Doncaster.When I say real fans I mean real fans who know football,lads who know how to support their team and take a defeat for what it is.

You don't have to brag about the games you go to or the 'classics' you were at,supporting your team is about just that supporting them not putting other teams sets of fans down.

I would suggest that because Mr Eamonn Sweeney has to go bragging in a national paper about how much of a 'Superfan' he is that he in fact has a huge chip on his shoulder.

This just sounds exactly like the counterargument Eamonn Sweeney would make if he was of the opposite opinion.

gimmick

What it means to me to be an LOI fan? it means, by proxy, I accept minnowism, mediocrity and hard arsed efforts.

Sunset V

gimmick wrote: »

What it means to me to be an LOI fan? it means, by proxy, I accept minnowism, mediocrity and hard arsed efforts.

Minnowism, half arsed?

How about ignored and brutally under funded?

Dub13

DSB wrote: »

This just sounds exactly like the counterargument Eamonn Sweeney would make if he was of the opposite opinion.

I am just pointed out that real fans are a like it does not matter what team in what league they support.

DSB

Dub13 wrote: »

I am just pointed out that real fans are a like it does not matter what team in what league they support.

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

Sunset V

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

I think you're spot on here.

Bobalicious93

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

That's a load of rubbish to be fair.

pablomakaveli

It makes me cringe when i hear people harping on about being real fans because they support a LOI club. I don't think it helps the situation. The reality is that LOI clubs need as many people as possible going to games and this attitude only puts people off.

That said i also hate the kind of fans who decide to support whatever EPL is the currently the richest/most succesful and then turn around and say the LOI is ****e without ever having seen any games.

Both leagues have their obnoxious fans. But they both have great fans as well.

stovelid

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The reality is that LOI clubs need as many people as possible going to games and this attitude only puts people off.
.

While I don't want to inflame the real fan debate anymore than it is here, I think we need to put the myth to bed that there is some gigantic reservoir of untapped Irish football support that would be at LOI games every week if it wasn't for a few comments on internet forums.

GLaDOS

stovelid wrote: »

While I don't want to inflame the real fan debate anymore than it is here, I think we need to put the myth to bed that there is not some gigantic reservoir of untapped Irish football support that would be at LOI games every week if it wasn't for a few comments on internet forums.

It's all down to marketing. Its very easy to follow the EPL, it's everywhere, almost no effort is needed to keep up to date with everything that's going on.

The LOI on the other hand is horribly under promoted.

ANTIFA!

And that in reality is what it comes down to. Contrary to Mr.Nice Guys belief of and our 'cultal football dependance on Britain'' what it takes is to spice the league up. To make people believe that it matters. That the title run in is every bit as exciting as what is happening elsewhere. Even the current LOI product would look completely different if they were getting 12,000 at games as opposed to 2000.

However the Irish media seems to want to prolong this charade.

ShooterSF

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

Could you expand on why you think that though?
The best line in that article was " Logic doesn't apply when you're talking about love. A man in love has no choice." I love Manchester United. Watching them win (like yesterday) has me jumping around the room like an idiot and watching them lose like against barca had me near tears.
How is it any different than say if I supported Dundalk (close enough to Navan). Other than I was born closer to their football pitch? It would still be silly for my to feel like I achieved anything because a group of other people who play their football on a pitch near me win a match. A club's geographical location has nothing to do with the feelings one has for it especially in today's modern era where I can watch practically all their matches from home..

Foxx92

ScienceNerd wrote: »

It's all down to marketing. Its very easy to follow the EPL, it's everywhere, almost no effort is needed to keep up to date with everything that's going on.

The LOI on the other hand is horribly under promoted.

Totally agree. Before I started supporting Galway United I bearly knew they existed. I was at a FAI soccer camp in Terryland years ago and tbh playing on that pitch was what made me follow United. I was hugely impressed by everything there (I had never been to any other stadium bar Croker) and wanted to see a soccer match live. I did, and have never looked back since.

Thing is, if I had never been there I would probably still be sitting at home remote in one hand cheering on Liverpool. The lack of promotion is astounding. The FAI do nothing and it is usually up to the Supporters trust to do any match promotion. Also RTE do no favours, for example their advertisement of sport next year didn't even mention the LOI.

GLaDOS

Foxx92 wrote: »

Also RTE do no favours, for example their advertisement of sport next year didn't even mention the LOI.

Yeah, and a lack of coverage when teams actually win games in europe really stinks

Sunset V

Foxx92 wrote: »

Totally agree. Before I started supporting Galway United I bearly knew they existed. I was at a FAI soccer camp in Terryland years ago and tbh playing on that pitch was what made me follow United. I was hugely impressed by everything there (I had never been to any other stadium bar Croker) and wanted to see a soccer match live. I did, and have never looked back since.

Thing is, if I had never been there I would probably still be sitting at home remote in one hand cheering on Liverpool. The lack of promotion is astounding. The FAI do nothing and it is usually up to the Supporters trust to do any match promotion. Also RTE do no favours, for example their advertisement of sport next year didn't even mention the LOI.

Spot on.

There is a group of journos who cover the LoI in national papers but apart from the Mirror and Indo on a Friday, there is little or no print coverage. There are press conferences every week for every club and there is nothing done about it. These press conferences are huge news for the EPL but I don't know how many people know they even take place here.

Also in relation to ScienceNerd, correct, when Bohs held Salzburg. It wasn't the lead story on the RTÉ sports bulletin and they spelt Salzburg wrong! I do like MNS, I think it does a great job but the coverage overall is horrendous.

gosplan

Love of League of Ireland is the love that dare not speak its name. Or, at the very least, the love that's not supposed to. In these enlightened liberal times, you can parade through the streets in leather hot pants, you can set up home with whoever you want to, you can even confess to voting for Martin Cullen and nobody will bat an eyelid. Mention that you'd prefer to travel to The Showgrounds, Oriel Park or Turners Cross to watch your local team instead of to a pub with a big screen and Bulmers on draught to watch teams from cities you couldn't find on a map, however, and you're treated with the same kind of suspicion encountered by roving Jehovah's Witnesses in 1940s Ireland.

stovelid wrote: »

It's a matter of fact that you have more in common with LOI fans, often because of the derision and uninformed opinion that you encounter from some sectors of the football community.

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

Neither on this forum or in public have I heard anyone seriously slag LOI fans. when I think LOI I think of people like Pat Fenlon, Brian Kerr and Mick Wallace - basically of grassroots football in this country, and I think the same thing of their fans.

So where the hell is all this supposed derision and slagging you always get? I mean FFS, you act like you've all lived through the Holocaust together or something.

To be brutally honest, on boards at least, the derision only goes one way and that makes this victim complex you have going on even more of a joke.

ANTIFA! wrote:

Lazy barstoolers

DSB wrote:

There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none.

I mean, find me the last thread that was a thinly veiled pop at the LOI and it's fans as opposed to the other way around. When did I start a thread about how the EPL was 'real' football compared to the LOI?

Be smug, be superior, be whatever you want but you have to lose the 'shared victimhood' nonsense when you're pretty much consistently the aggressors in this argument.

Foxx92

gosplan wrote: »

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

Neither on this forum or in public have I heard anyone seriously slag LOI fans

The usual reply I get is "Why do you support them, they're shi te" If that's not slagging I don't know what is.

pablomakaveli

gosplan wrote: »

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

Neither on this forum or in public have I heard anyone seriously slag LOI fans. when I think LOI I think of people like Pat Fenlon, Brian Kerr and Mick Wallace - basically of grassroots football in this country, and I think the same thing of their fans.

So where the hell is all this supposed derision and slagging you always get? I mean FFS, you act like you've all lived through the Holocaust together or something.

To be brutally honest, on boards at least, the derision only goes one way and that makes this victim complex you have going on even more of a joke.

I've lost count of how many times people have looked at my like i've two heads when people ask me what team i support and i answer Cork City. And thats ampified when they ask "Well what english team do you support?" and i say "None".

I've also had a lot of people say "Cork City are ****" or "why would you support a crap team?". The derision is there believe me.

Also when i ask these people have they ever watched a LOI match the answer is more often than not a No.

stovelid

gosplan wrote: »

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

I meant in general really. Plenty of people in real life are mystified that you go to games. Loads of WTF looks and the kind of misinformed comments, that if made about their English team would be laughed at for inaccuracy and bluster.

Also, there are plenty of comments on here. I have little need to dredge them up. Cracks about poor quality football (from people who willingly lap up poor fare from the national team, Championship, SPL and even EPL). Also plenty of presumptuous comments if LOI supporters don't get automatically behind the national team.

I'm sorry if my comment inferred some kind of moral superiority (which wasn't intended). It's certainly the case that there are supporters of all leagues that have that. And I do think there is a certain LOI supporter that likes the idea of being a niche taste. Personally, I believe them to be well in the minority.

I have plenty in common with all football supporters. Plenty in common with other United supporters that, like me, watch most of the games from a barstool.

But I just have a bit more in common with people that watch a team here, like me. People who are on the other side of the ground from me, week after week. People who like going to games. It's just a feeling. And while I don't blindly support the league as a whole, I guess that the experience (hardships and good times) gives you a little more empathy with others in the same boat.

Gavin "shels"

Sunset V wrote: »

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

I'll admit I used to support the League as a whole, cheer on teams in Europe, etc..., but that's long gone since the double standarding has started with the FAI, the cheating coming from teams ,etc... I'm a Shels fan now only, screw the rest of the teams in the League is how I go about my business these days.

invincibleirish

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I've lost count of how many times people have looked at my like i've two heads when people ask me what team i support and i answer Cork City. And thats ampified when they ask "Well what english team do you support?" and i say "None".

I've also had a lot of people say "Cork City are ****" or "why would you support a crap team?". The derision is there believe me.

Also when i ask these people have they ever watched a LOI match the answer is more often than not a No.

Yup this, i love the Villa but frequent the cross & st. Colmans from time to time but mostly on my own. i've tried in vain for a long time to get my chums to come along but to a man they refuse. This might be because they have better things to do on a Friday night which is fair enough but the LoI and going to games just don't figure in most young Irish mens minds. I think if the EPL disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow attendences in the LoI wouldn't change.

Don't support the league as a whole either, and specially not anything Shamrock rovers related.

stovelid

ShooterSF wrote: »

A club's geographical location has nothing to do with the feelings one has for it especially in today's modern era where I can watch practically all their matches from home..

Not having a go, but do you support Ireland?

Foxx92

stovelid wrote: »

Not having a go, but do you support Ireland?

Just to add something similar to this: I recently had a converstaion with somebody who is into most sports and is an avid Man U fan.

Who do you support in rugby?Connacht and Ireland
In Gaelic?Galway and (local gaa club)
In Hurling? " " " " " "
In Soccer? Man U and Ireland.

The last answer is the main line. He lives within 20 minutes of the stadiums of all the teams except one. Geography does have a role to play.

OPENROAD

ShooterSF wrote: »

Could you expand on why you think that though?The best line in that article was " Logic doesn't apply when you're talking about love. A man in love has no choice." I love Manchester United. Watching them win (like yesterday) has me jumping around the room like an idiot and watching them lose like against barca had me near tears.
How is it any different than say if I supported Dundalk (close enough to Navan). Other than I was born closer to their football pitch? It would still be silly for my to feel like I achieved anything because a group of other people who play their football on a pitch near me win a match. A club's geographical location has nothing to do with the feelings one has for it especially in today's modern era where I can watch practically all their matches from home..

+1

Eirebear

Sunset V wrote: »

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

I do agree with some people who say that LoI fans have a chip on their shoulder but you also have to see their side of the argument too. The rich cousin gets richer and richer, more TV coverage, attendances staying strong while here it's a bleak future. When you love the LoI you love it with a passion and want it to succeed, not just your own team. I think that's what a LoI fan is to be honest.

I dont get it to be perfectly honest.

Supporting a scottish team leaves me with a lot of the same "rich cousin" problems as fans of League of ireland teams, and it is getting as bad, your every bit as likely to see a Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal top on a kid in scotland now as you are any of the SPL teams sadly.

When it comes down to defending scottish football, i will by all means extoll the virtues of clubs like Motherwell, Dundee Utd etc.
But as to wether they do well in europe or not...i cant say i really care, the only thing i want from them is to do well enough that it keeps the coefficient at a suitable level to make qualifying easier for Rangers.

Domestically they are my rivals, why should that suddenly change just because they are playing a team from Europe?

_blank_

Eirebear, in Dundee or Aberdeen or Alloa or Inverness, if a fella asked another fella who he supports, and the fella answered Dundee, Aberdeen, Alloa or Cally Thistle, would he get a look of disbelief, and a withering "What English team do you support"? And if he said "none", would he then get an "I wouldn't watch that SPL shíte" even though he'd never been to an SPL game in his life?

That's the experience of each and every LoI supporter in Ireland, ignorant arseholes with those responses. Fans of clubs from Ballybofey to Cork, from Dublin to Galway have all experienced this at one stage or another. And it kind of bonds us together.

We all know how it feels to be asked that question, we all know the "I want to punch the next idiot who says that to me" feeling. We can all see the looks of derision when a smart arse bastard is looking down his nose at us when a Rovers and a Shels fan are chatting about the league in the work canteen "What are you talking about that crap for :rolleyes:".

We all know how it feels, it's a shared experience we can all, to a man, relate to.

I'm a Shels fan first and foremost. But I also want to see this League grow and become more than a backwater that even it's own people don't want to be associated with.

Eirebear

Aye....but Shels are ****e...:p

Nah, i understand that point, i honestly do. As ive said, ive had to defend my support of an SPL team to Englishmen and Irishmen alike because "The SPL is pish".
Granted, not to scotsmen though.

However i simply cannot understand this idea of supporting the league as a whole, of course you want it to grow, it only serves Shel's well if it does.
But do you honestly in your heart of hearts care if Rovers, or Boh's win in europe?

_blank_

Eirebear wrote: »

But do you honestly in your heart of hearts care if Rovers, or Boh's win in europe?

In as much as you

the only thing i want from them is to do well enough that it keeps the coefficient at a suitable level to make qualifying easier for Rangers.

It's nice to see the Irish clubs currently competing to be keeping the co-efficient warm for when Shels are back there.

Quint

I'm a Shels fan, but ffs, support who you want! If it's finn harps or man-u, good luck to you. I also support Juventus. I support most LoI clubs in europe. Although if they get knocked out, I won't lose any sleep.
Although, I think if you support an English town/city it's a bit hypocritical to want england to get knocked out of the world cup.

pablomakaveli

Eirebear wrote: »

However i simply cannot understand this idea of supporting the league as a whole, of course you want it to grow, it only serves Shel's well if it does.
But do you honestly in your heart of hearts care if Rovers, or Boh's win in europe?

I definitely care. The co-efficient boost is always important as is the boost to the leagues reputation when a LOI team wins in europe.

It's also great to see an Irish team knock out a cocky foreign club like Pats did this season.

Quint

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It's also great to see an Irish team knock out a cocky foreign club like Pats did this season.

Derry against Gretna a few years ago was fantastic too.

DSB

ShooterSF wrote: »

Could you expand on why you think that though?
The best line in that article was " Logic doesn't apply when you're talking about love. A man in love has no choice." I love Manchester United. Watching them win (like yesterday) has me jumping around the room like an idiot and watching them lose like against barca had me near tears.
How is it any different than say if I supported Dundalk (close enough to Navan). Other than I was born closer to their football pitch? It would still be silly for my to feel like I achieved anything because a group of other people who play their football on a pitch near me win a match. A club's geographical location has nothing to do with the feelings one has for it especially in today's modern era where I can watch practically all their matches from home..

Well see I can expand on why I think that, but you've already informed me that you disagree with what would have been my counter argument. I'll do it, but I already know you're going to disagree, so we might be going down a slippery slope.

See in my world, geographical location means everything, and I'm going to use GAA as a reference point, if I went onto the GAA forum today, and told people I was a Kerry fan, or even not the full gloryhunting fan, maybe I said I was from Cork. Or Tyrone, theres a few good teams to choose from, like in the Premiership. If I was to go on there and say that I'd be laughed out of the forum, they'd probably assume I was a wum and ban me. Now I understand, in Dublin especially, that it might be that tiny bit harder to have that county pride, considering theres 5 football clubs to choose from and Sporting Fingal. But cmon nobody needs to be that pernickety. Also I'm sure not everyone has a LOI club in their county, but I don't understand why that should mean people shouldn't support their local club.

In England there is a pretty decent support for non-league clubs and my Football Manager playing exploits tell me that there are clubs in the Blue Square South and North who have higher attendances than some LOI Premier clubs. Obviously thats a culture thing, and I know people can give me a million reasons why the LOI is not worth supporting, but in the end in my opinion a fan is someone who supports their local club through thick and thin, whether its Manchester United or Tralee Dynamos. Supporting your chosen top Premiership side through thick and thin isn't really that tricky is it? Thin isn't really that thin like is it? Did your club not make the CL semifinals this year or something? Oh boohoo.

Eirebear

Des wrote: »

In as much as you



It's nice to see the Irish clubs currently competing to be keeping the co-efficient warm for when Shels are back there.

So, we're down to the nitty gritty really. You are just like me.

Its great if other clubs do well, as long as it benefits the club we support. We're football fans, tribal by nature.

This tribal nature means that we only care about our own, outwith that we will create alliances, and lend our support to those who might be good for us in the long term. But when it comes down to it we will want to see them finish behind us in everything.
I can understand this tribalism comes into play when the majority of your own people dont seem to even register the fact that you exist, giving cause to this LOI Fan malarkey. At the end of the day however, i dont believe there is any such thing.

You can only truly support 1 club, one team, one tribe.

stovelid

Eirebear wrote: »

However i simply cannot understand this idea of supporting the league as a whole, of course you want it to grow, it only serves Shel's well if it does.
But do you honestly in your heart of hearts care if Rovers, or Boh's win in europe?

Outside of the fact that we live in the same country, and some of us the same city. I think it's just common ground, as Des said, rather than loving other teams in the league.

Thing is, with other leagues like the SPL and the EPL, they're in good health. Our league is in bits. LOI supporters, whether for reasons of altruism and self-interest, have to take an interest in factors that other supporters take for granted.

It's like buying far more club merchandise (to help the club) than you need when supporters of other clubs can afford to buy knock-off ones. Or trying to persuade randomers to go to matches.

It's not a case of trying to be better than other people. Or be a real supporter. It's because you're afraid that, at worst, the club will go tits up; at best, that you can make your wages.

Can you imagine Rangers going kaput? There will probably always be a Rangers for your (hypothetical) kids, if they don't support the EPL.

That common feeling of despair, disgust, worry and resignation and you can't help but feel that you're in the same boat as other LOI supporters.

Add the contempt you sometimes sense from other supporters and it does breed a bit of an esprit de corps. How could it not?

_blank_

Eirebear wrote: »

You can only truly support 1 club, one team, one tribe.

You are right.

The Irish clubs doing well will benefit Shels if and when we get back to Europe, I don't deny it.

But we are all part of a bigger tribe with the same enemies. Whoever is against my enemy is my friend.

John Delaney, The FAI, ignorant people who look down their noses at the LoI, horrible club owners out to line their own pockets, the list goes on.

While inter-club rivalries are at the heart of any football league, we can also see the bigger picture here. We have a common direction too, and we know we have to pull together against our common enemies, it's the only way we'll overcome them. Or even feel like we are chipping away at them.

Put it this way. On a Friday evening I wouldn't be friends with a rival club fan, those ninety minutes, I want them to fail.

but on every other day of the week, they are the only other people who understand exactly what it means to be a supporter of a LoI club. They feel the same pain as I do, only they can truly understand what it means to support a team in this league.

I can see where the lads are coming from, even today I nicked a picture from Gav's sig for my own. F.T.A. Fúck Them All.

I stad against them and sing that on a Friday night, but I stand shoulder to shoulder with them when it comes to the bigger issues that affect us all the same.

The night Cork City were going to the wall I was texting my friends in Cork with supportive messages, people I've had pints with and bitched with about the failings we put up with, the same people I've had arguments with on Friday nights.

While we may not be a part of the same tribe, we are cousins.

The Sioux and the Comanches had their wars, but they stood together against the white man.

Mr Alan

Des wrote: »

The Sioux and the Comanches had their wars, but they stood together against the white man.

LOL you're some tulip!

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL you're some tulip!

The FAI can be described as nothing other than cowboys tbh.

Quint

Des wrote: »

The Sioux and the Comanches had their wars, but they stood together against the white man.

Fantastic!

stovelid

Des wrote: »

The Sioux and the Comanches

Was always a Sex Pistols man myself tbh.

Eirebear

Very elequantly put Des and Stove Lid.

I suppose i can't really understand as i support a team that happens to be one of two teams who are despised by everyone else in their own league.
Although that in itself creates a weird fractured brotherhood between us.

Personally i couldnt care less if ten out of the 12 teams in Scotland went bust (from a footballing point of view, i'd be gutted for my mates who support these teams).
But i would very much mourn the loss of Celtic if that was ever to happen.