What it means to be a LOI fan.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

stovelid wrote: »

Outside of the fact that we live in the same country, and some of us the same city. I think it's just common ground, as Des said, rather than loving other teams in the league.

Thing is, with other leagues like the SPL and the EPL, they're in good health. Our league is in bits. LOI supporters, whether for reasons of altruism and self-interest, have to take an interest in factors that other supporters take for granted.

It's like buying far more club merchandise (to help the club) than you need when supporters of other clubs can afford to buy knock-off ones. Or trying to persuade randomers to go to matches.

It's not a case of trying to be better than other people. Or be a real supporter. It's because you're afraid that, at worst, the club will go tits up; at best, that you can make your wages.

Can you imagine Rangers going kaput? There will probably always be a Rangers for your (hypothetical) kids, if they don't support the EPL.

That common feeling of despair, disgust, worry and resignation and you can't help but feel that you're in the same boat as other LOI supporters.

Add the contempt you sometimes sense from other supporters and it does breed a bit of an esprit de corps. How could it not?

I can assure you the SPL is not in good health
As for his Hypothetical kids I think I did a fairly good job with him and my other two boys considering where I am from no Celtic fans or fans of an EPL club amongst them I think they will do as good a job if at any time they have kids

To be honest I have a lot of respect for LOI fans but I must admit I get fed up being told that because I follow an SPL side I am not a real fan

Tusky

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

What if someone lives in Liverpool and watches all of Liverpools games on television...maybe going to one or two games a year. Are they a real fan ? Are they more of a fan than an Irish person who goes to 10 games a year, at much greater cost financially and in regards to time ? What is a fan anyway ?

Definition : an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime

The club is owned by Americans, managed by a Spaniard and consists of players from all over the globe. Theres are more Spanish coaching staff than English. So whats the problem with having a few Irish fans ? We are, after all, geographically as close to Liverpool as you can get without entering the country.

Regretfully, I wasn't exposed to Irish football as a kid. I wish I was. And I wish I felt something for a Dublin team, but I just dont. Ive gone to many games and I dont enjoy them...not just because the standard is low, but mainly because I dont care about the result. You cant just start caring out of the blue. If and when I have kids however, I will try bring them to League or Ireland games when they are young, to encourage an interest.

DSB

Tusky wrote: »

What if someone lives in Liverpool and watches all of Liverpools games on television...maybe going to one or two games a year. Are they a real fan ? Are they more of a fan than an Irish person who goes to 10 games a year, at much greater cost financially and in regards to time ?

No they aren't. And I don't think there is a such thing as being more of a fan, you just are one or you aren't. In the same way that a Liverpudlian couldn't become more Irish than you if he donned a leprechaun suit and ran around proclaiming how Irish he was. Not everything has to be measured by how much of something you are, sometimes its as simple as you are or you aren't.

ANTIFA!

Tusky wrote: »

What if someone lives in Liverpool and watches all of Liverpools games on television...maybe going to one or two games a year. Are they a real fan ? Are they more of a fan than an Irish person who goes to 10 games a year, at much greater cost financially and in regards to time ? What is a fan anyway ?

Definition : an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime

The club is owned by Americans, managed by a Spaniard and consists of players from all over the globe. Theres are more Spanish coaching staff than English. So whats the problem with having a few Irish fans ? We are, after all, geographically as close to Liverpool as you can get without entering the country.

Regretfully, I wasn't exposed to Irish football as a kid. I wish I was. And I wish I felt something for a Dublin team, but I just dont. Ive gone to many games and I dont enjoy them...not just because the standard is low, but mainly because I dont care about the result. You cant just start caring out of the blue. If and when I have kids however, I will try bring them to League or Ireland games when they are young, to encourage an interest.

Good post. Unfortunately LOI clubs for a lot of people are completely off the radar. Playing an English team once a season isn't going to get people back at games, this just creates the scenario where people see Irish clubs as yearly opponents for English teams.

The ammount of people that didn't even know a league existed here is quite astounding!!! How did that actually happen?

dor83

DSB wrote: »

See in my world, geographical location means everything

DSB wrote: »

Also I'm sure not everyone has a LOI club in their county, but I don't understand why that should mean people shouldn't support their local club.

DSB wrote: »

but in the end in my opinion a fan is someone who supports their local club through thick and thin, whether its Manchester United or Tralee Dynamos.

I live in Kells in Meath and have no LOI club in my area and the highest level would be amateur level, who am I supposed to support by your definition? or does your definition mean that I shouldn't support any professional football team?

DSB

dor83 wrote: »

I live in Kells in Meath and have no LOI club in my area and the highest level would be amateur level, who am I supposed to support by your definition? or does your definition mean that I shouldn't support any professional football team?

Well I don't really see a problem supporting Kells, I mean if it was GAA you'd have no problem doing it. But even still Shels, Drogheda, Bohs, Sporting Fingal. They're all alot closer than what Premiership club you support, or is live football not that important to you?

Again, my 'definition' doesn't say that you shouldn't support any professional football team, its saying that you don't.

Dub13

ANTIFA! wrote: »

The ammount of people that didn't even know a league existed here is quite astounding!!! How did that actually happen?

This is the case with me,I had been to maybe 4/5 Liverpool games before I even knew there was a LOI.And by that stage I was well hooked by the LFC bug.

I had zero exposure to a LOI club,some people on here seem to suggest that because I grew up maybe 5/6 miles from a LOI club that I should support them even if I did not even know they existed on till I was maybe 14/15.I am not going to all of a sudden start supporting a club I have no links two.

flahavaj

Des wrote: »

The Sioux and the Comanches had their wars, but they stood together against the white man.

Is it 'cos I is Black!?

dor83

DSB wrote: »

Well I don't really see a problem supporting Kells, I mean if it was GAA you'd have no problem doing it. But even still Shels, Drogheda, Bohs, Sporting Fingal. They're all alot closer than what Premiership club you support, or is live football not that important to you?

Again, my 'definition' doesn't say that you shouldn't support any professional football team, its saying that you don't.

The only club there that is in my local area are Kells teams and they are amateur teams but you said that someone can only be a real fan of their local team, so you are saying that someone from my area can not be a real fan of any professional club.

Live football is very important to me, I have attended football matches in every country I have been to including LOI games and going to see games in the womens U-17 World Cup while I was in NZ. This is because first and foremost I would say I am a football fan and would watch any live game I can afford to go to, but I would also say I am an Inter fan because they are the club I actually get emotional about. I just feel that for you to say that someone can only be a fan of a team from their local area is incorrect, imo a true fan is not defined so easily.

Anto McC

Des wrote: »

You are right.

The Irish clubs doing well will benefit Shels if and when we get back to Europe, I don't deny it.

But we are all part of a bigger tribe with the same enemies. Whoever is against my enemy is my friend.

John Delaney, The FAI, ignorant people who look down their noses at the LoI, horrible club owners out to line their own pockets, the list goes on.

While inter-club rivalries are at the heart of any football league, we can also see the bigger picture here. We have a common direction too, and we know we have to pull together against our common enemies, it's the only way we'll overcome them. Or even feel like we are chipping away at them.

Put it this way. On a Friday evening I wouldn't be friends with a rival club fan, those ninety minutes, I want them to fail.

but on every other day of the week, they are the only other people who understand exactly what it means to be a supporter of a LoI club. They feel the same pain as I do, only they can truly understand what it means to support a team in this league.

I can see where the lads are coming from, even today I nicked a picture from Gav's sig for my own. F.T.A. Fúck Them All.

I stad against them and sing that on a Friday night, but I stand shoulder to shoulder with them when it comes to the bigger issues that affect us all the same.

The night Cork City were going to the wall I was texting my friends in Cork with supportive messages, people I've had pints with and bitched with about the failings we put up with, the same people I've had arguments with on Friday nights.

While we may not be a part of the same tribe, we are cousins.

The Sioux and the Comanches had their wars, but they stood together against the white man.

I've known you a long time Des, you're a friend but my word i think thats a load of nonsense. Personally, I wouldn't have batted 2 eyelids if Cork had gone to the wall. I would have been upset if Bohs or Pats had done well in Europe. I see a bigger picture, i always have done but i don't like it anymore. I genuinely don't care if one club doing well in Europe will help Shels further down the line, to be honest i don't want their help. I feel no affinity with any other LOI fan anymore, no more than i would a Liverpool fan anyway.

I wrote an article recently for the RI fanzine and in it, i inserted a quote from a mutual friends of ours which was refering to Pats and Bohs Euorpean games, the quote was "a win for them (Pats and Bohs) is a win for the FAI and John Delany" and it's spot on too. Personally (paranoid and perverse as it is) i don't look at it as having a common enemy, i believe we are the common enemy.

OPENROAD

dor83 wrote: »

I just feel that for you to say that someone can only be a fan of a team from their local area is incorrect, imo a true fan is not defined so easily.

+1

DSB

dor83 wrote: »

The only club there that is in my local area are Kells teams and they are amateur teams but you said that someone can only be a real fan of their local team, so you are saying that someone from my area can not be a real fan of any professional club.

Live football is very important to me, I have attended football matches in every country I have been to including LOI games and going to see games in the womens U-17 World Cup while I was in NZ. This is because first and foremost I would say I am a football fan and would watch any live game I can afford to go to, but I would also say I am an Inter fan because they are the club I actually get emotional about. I just feel that for you to say that someone can only be a fan of a team from their local area is incorrect, imo a true fan is not defined so easily.

How many Inter games have you been to? Just out of interest, I'm not gonna reply with 'omgz thats pathetic' or anything like that. Just wondering how it compares to the Irish Premiership fan considering travel being that bit even more difficult than England

dor83

DSB wrote: »

How many Inter games have you been to? Just out of interest, I'm not gonna reply with 'omgz thats pathetic' or anything like that. Just wondering how it compares to the Irish Premiership fan considering travel being that bit even more difficult than England

I don't know exactly but it is 50+, I was a season ticket holder until 2 seasons ago when I went to live in NZ and would have one now if I was staying in Europe for the season but unfortunately I won't be. I actually think it is just as easy to get to Italy if you organise it right and the season tickets are dirt cheap there, Inters start from €130 and include all 19 home games and 2 free cup games.

Iago

DSB wrote: »

Supporting your chosen top Premiership side through thick and thin isn't really that tricky is it? Thin isn't really that thin like is it? Did your club not make the CL semifinals this year or something? Oh boohoo.

and you see this is where a big part of your misguided (imo) opinion falls down.


You being a fan of an LOI team is absolutely no different to me being a fan of an EPL team. We're both passionate about the success of our clubs, we probably both spend far too much money in supporting those clubs. We've both had periods where our club isn't doing well and periods where we're on top of the world.

We've been abused and pilliored for our choices and we still stand with our heads held high and a smile on our faces because this is our club, our team, our life.

I've been a fan of football since I was 5 years old, I've been a Manchester United supporter since then. I've gone to games all over Europe, I've been to Champions League finals and League Cup games against such giants as Port Vale & Watford. I watch every reserve and academy game. When we win I'm ecstatic, when we lose I'm miserable and unapproachable for days.

I live breathe and sleep football, and specificially United and to try and equate the fact that my club is in no danger of going out of business (although that's not really true is it?) with how "real" a fan I am is ridiculous at best.

GlasnevinRed

Not another thread turning into LOI vs The World, it's getting ridiculous at this stage. I'm a Shels fan and even I'm getting sick of it. Fair enough if there's one thread on the topic but there's no need for the rest of them to go that way..

And on the topic of following other LOI clubs in Europe. Couldn't agree more with Anto. I laughed when RBS beat Bohs this year and even bought my Bohs mate a can of Red Bull the next day.

_blank_

GlasnevinRed wrote: »

Not another thread turning into LOI vs The World, it's getting ridiculous at this stage. I'm a Shels fan and even I'm getting sick of it. Fair enough if there's one thread on the topic but there's no need for the rest of them to go that way..

Amen Brother

DSB

Iago wrote: »

and you see this is where a big part of your misguided (imo) opinion falls down.


You being a fan of an LOI team is absolutely no different to me being a fan of an EPL team. We're both passionate about the success of our clubs, we probably both spend far too much money in supporting those clubs. We've both had periods where our club isn't doing well and periods where we're on top of the world.

We've been abused and pilliored for our choices and we still stand with our heads held high and a smile on our faces because this is our club, our team, our life.

I've been a fan of football since I was 5 years old, I've been a Manchester United supporter since then. I've gone to games all over Europe, I've been to Champions League finals and League Cup games against such giants as Port Vale & Watford. I watch every reserve and academy game. When we win I'm ecstatic, when we lose I'm miserable and unapproachable for days.

I live breathe and sleep football, and specificially United and to try and equate the fact that my club is in no danger of going out of business (although that's not really true is it?) with how "real" a fan I am is ridiculous at best.

Its completely different but whatever.

ShooterSF

DSB wrote: »

Well see I can expand on why I think that, but you've already informed me that you disagree with what would have been my counter argument. I'll do it, but I already know you're going to disagree, so we might be going down a slippery slope.

See in my world, geographical location means everything, and I'm going to use GAA as a reference point, if I went onto the GAA forum today, and told people I was a Kerry fan, or even not the full gloryhunting fan, maybe I said I was from Cork. Or Tyrone, theres a few good teams to choose from, like in the Premiership. If I was to go on there and say that I'd be laughed out of the forum, they'd probably assume I was a wum and ban me. Now I understand, in Dublin especially, that it might be that tiny bit harder to have that county pride, considering theres 5 football clubs to choose from and Sporting Fingal. But cmon nobody needs to be that pernickety. Also I'm sure not everyone has a LOI club in their county, but I don't understand why that should mean people shouldn't support their local club.

In England there is a pretty decent support for non-league clubs and my Football Manager playing exploits tell me that there are clubs in the Blue Square South and North who have higher attendances than some LOI Premier clubs. Obviously thats a culture thing, and I know people can give me a million reasons why the LOI is not worth supporting, but in the end in my opinion a fan is someone who supports their local club through thick and thin, whether its Manchester United or Tralee Dynamos. Supporting your chosen top Premiership side through thick and thin isn't really that tricky is it? Thin isn't really that thin like is it? Did your club not make the CL semifinals this year or something? Oh boohoo.

The bit in bold is where I think a lot of LOI fans make a mistake. I didn't chose Man UTD really. I was about 6 and was fascinated with their style of play, their players etc. I developed a bond for the club the same way I'm sure you have for your local club. Ok you may have watched your's live, I watched mine in pubs drinking coke. But that's my point. Me supporting Dundalk would be like you supporting Man Utd there would be no emotional bond to it.
To answer another question asked of me, do I support the Irish team? Yes, again I grew up being brought out with other fans to cheer them on I remember Italia 90 (was 6 at the time too) in a pub with my old man supporting them. Does that negate my geographical argument? I don't think so... I don't support Meath in the GAA as I have no interest or Ireland in the rugby.
I'm not even trying to have a go at LOI fans here. And I wouldn't dare mock the clubs or their fans. All I'm doing is standing up to claims that I can't feel the same connection for my "foreign" club as you do your local one. Because even if you couldn't, I can.

DSB

ShooterSF wrote: »

The bit in bold is where I think a lot of LOI fans make a mistake. I didn't chose Man UTD really. I was about 6 and was fascinated with their style of play, their players etc. I developed a bond for the club the same way I'm sure you have for your local club. Ok you may have watched your's live, I watched mine in pubs drinking coke. But that's my point. Me supporting Dundalk would be like you supporting Man Utd there would be no emotional bond to it.
To answer another question asked of me, do I support the Irish team? Yes, again I grew up being brought out with other fans to cheer them on I remember Italia 90 (was 6 at the time too) in a pub with my old man supporting them. Does that negate my geographical argument? I don't think so... I don't support Meath in the GAA as I have no interest or Ireland in the rugby.
I'm not even trying to have a go at LOI fans here. And I wouldn't dare mock the clubs or their fans. All I'm doing is standing up to claims that I can't feel the same connection for my "foreign" club as you do your local one. Because even if you couldn't, I can.

Of course you chose them. Fair enough you were 6 and making choices is a bit different, but lets not over romanticise it and make out like it was some kind of vocation.

ShooterSF

DSB wrote: »

Of course you chose them. Fair enough you were 6 and making choices is a bit different, but lets not over romanticise it and make out like it was some kind of vocation.

Well in the same way as you chose to get a crush or fall in love with someone. It's not a logical choice. I didn't sit there one day and say who am I going to invest myself emotionally in?

dor83

DSB wrote: »

Of course you chose them. Fair enough you were 6 and making choices is a bit different, but lets not over romanticise it and make out like it was some kind of vocation.

But if somebody from Meath chooses to support any LOI club how is that any different to choosing a club from abroad?

ShooterSF

GlasnevinRed wrote: »

Not another thread turning into LOI vs The World, it's getting ridiculous at this stage. I'm a Shels fan and even I'm getting sick of it. Fair enough if there's one thread on the topic but there's no need for the rest of them to go that way..

And on the topic of following other LOI clubs in Europe. Couldn't agree more with Anto. I laughed when RBS beat Bohs this year and even bought my Bohs mate a can of Red Bull the next day.

Some of it is unfair bashing of the LOI but then some of the thread (like my own involvement) is standing up for my support of a foreign club being bashed/mocked by LOI fans. It's not all one way I'm afraid...

DSB

ShooterSF wrote: »

Well in the same way as you chose to get a crush or fall in love with someone. It's not a logical choice. I didn't sit there one day and say who am I going to invest myself emotionally in?

Yeah but if you like football you were always going to pick a team to support. Alot of people like women but don't have to pick one to invest emotionally in until.........

dor83 wrote: »

But if somebody from Meath chooses to support any LOI club how is that any different to choosing a club from abroad?

Because its still your local club like. Google maps tell me that Drogheda is a 40 minute drive for you. Not so bad eh? Google maps also tell me that Milan is a 21 hour and 18 minutes away from you.

GlasnevinRed

ShooterSF wrote: »

Some of it is unfair bashing of the LOI but then some of the thread (like my own involvement) is standing up for my support of a foreign club being bashed/mocked by LOI fans. It's not all one way I'm afraid...

I never said it was all one way. And while I agree with lots of the points on the LOI side it still doesn't make it any less annoying.

ShooterSF

GlasnevinRed wrote: »

I never said it was all one way. And while I agree with lots of the points on the LOI side it still doesn't make it any less annoying.

I agree on the bit in bold. I like the "to each his own" motto. Unfortunately some threads LOI fans open to discuss their league or games gets a few smarmy remarks from others which is stupid but I'd like to think a majority of us EPL fans stay out of them or actually offer some genuine discussion but and this is a big BUT some LOI threads are like loaded dice (like some of the Op's recent ones) taking digs at "Barstoolers" or non-"real football fans" and yet these people get angry when fans standing up for who they support come on to the thread.
To be honest I think *some* LOI fans would rather we argue over each other's support than have the EPL fans ignore their threads. I also thing some EPL fans enjoy those arguments too unfortunately.

dor83

DSB wrote: »

Because its still your local club like. Google maps tell me that Drogheda is a 40 minute drive for you. Not so bad eh? Google maps also tell me that Milan is a 21 hour and 18 minutes away from you.

It's not my local club though, the easiest LOI club for me to get to would be Bohs because I don't have a car and even they are in a different county. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say there is something wrong people being fans of LOI clubs, or any others for that matter, I respect their choice and wish them well. I am just amazed that people who complain about others belittling them for supporting the club they do but at the same time trying to belittle others because they don't support a a club that they feel is appropriate because of where they live, double standards imo. There is a difference between a football fan and a fan of a single club imo, but it has nothing to do with where you come from.

GlasnevinRed

ShooterSF wrote: »

I agree on the bit in bold. I like the "to each his own" motto. Unfortunately some threads LOI fans open to discuss their league or games gets a few smarmy remarks from others which is stupid but I'd like to think a majority of us EPL fans stay out of them or actually offer some genuine discussion but and this is a big BUT some LOI threads are like loaded dice (like some of the Op's recent ones) taking digs at "Barstoolers" or non-"real football fans" and yet these people get angry when fans standing up for who they support come on to the thread.
To be honest I think *some* LOI fans would rather we argue over each other's support than have the EPL fans ignore their threads. I also thing some EPL fans enjoy those arguments too unfortunately.

I'm still better than you because I'm an LOI fan though.:rolleyes: